Date   

Re: There were not a lot of 50 foot boxcars around in 1929

Tim O'Connor
 


I have several photos of the car that I haven't scanned. Here's a picture
I found on the internet somewhere. The car is an Fe-13 and first went to the
DT&I (lettering was visible when I took photos) and then the StJ&LC.

Tim


On 5/7/2019 7:58 AM, Donald B. Valentine via Groups.Io wrote:
   Speaking of early 50 ft. cars I'll bring this type up at least one of which ended up here in Vermont on our
little St. Johnsbury & Lamoille County RR. This was a 50 ft., single sheathed ex-Santa Fe car that had the
heaviest cast underframe I can ever recall seeing. It is that underframe that makes it stick in my mind
because there were hollowed out places within it to account for the pivot of the trucks on sharp curves.
I have no idea when it was constructed or by whom and, unfortunately, never got a photo of the one that
satjust east f the Eastern States Farmers Exchange building for some years in the late 1970's and early
1980's. Does anyone know more about it from this meager description?

Cordially, Don Valentine
_._,_._,_

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: There were not a lot of 50 foot boxcars around in 1929

Eric Lombard
 

Good Morning, Everyone...Again

Thanks to Rupert Gamlen (CB&Q X-5 class) and Jim Gates ( ATSF Fe-K class.) for noting two classes missing in the  50 ft cars Excel data table. The two are definitely in the database but somehow my query that produced the excel spreadsheet was not constructed correctly (its complicated). So, here is the last word baring further notifications form RR specific knowledgeable list members. 

The table lists 114 series and includes those built new up to 12-1929, those either new, or renumbered, or rebuilt without renumbering, or rebuilt and renumbered and in service in 1928, 

I very much appreciated the interest and comments from the members and the opportunity to polish my query skills. There are 8500 series in the box car database: those that came into existence new between 1910- 1944, or as renumbered or rebuilt from those cars up through the 1960's. Series built prior to 1910 but with steel underframes are also included and similarly cars from select railroads that appeal to me: Illinois Central and absorbed lines at the moment. The box car database is a work in progress and is now nearing 35 years of data entry. 

The dates in the format 1-18xx or 1-1900 are place holders: the year is documented but the month is pending documentation.


On Sun, May 5, 2019 at 2:56 PM Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;) <claus@...> wrote:
Hi List Members,
 
There were not a lot of 50 foot boxcars around in 1929, but there were some.
 
Here is a nice view of three different ones, all gathered together at the extreme right side of the image, taken in 1929.
 
 
Too bad the negative has some damage, and the film resolution is not quite where we can make out the road numbers. I think the rightmost one (partial view only) is Union Pacific, the next one moving left might be CB&Q, but I cannot quite make out the other with the fishbelly underframe, maybe it is Illiniois Central? Thoughts?
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund
 


Re: ex-ATSF Class Fe-13 Auto Boxcars on the StJ&LC (was There were not a lot of 50 foot boxcars around in 1929)

Benjamin Hom
 

Don Valentine asked:
"Speaking of early 50 ft. cars I'll bring this type up at least one of which ended up here in Vermont on our little St. Johnsbury & Lamoille County RR. This was a 50 ft., single sheathed ex-Santa Fe car that had the heaviest cast underframe I can ever recall seeing. It is that underframe that makes it stick in my mind because there were hollowed out places within it to account for the pivot of the trucks on sharp curves. I have no idea when it was constructed or by whom and, unfortunately, never got a photo of the one that sat just east of the Eastern States Farmers Exchange building for some years in the late 1970's and early 1980's. Does anyone know more about it from this meager description?"

StJ&LC also had secondhand 50 ft SS automobile boxcars. These had fishbelly sidesill reinforcements at the door opening, but are definitely not the same as the massive underframes on the ex-ATSF automobile boxcars.  I believe you conflated the features of the two series of cars.

My gut feeling is that these are ex-CB&Q, but I'll leave it to their experts on the list to confirm.


Ben Hom



ex-ATSF Class Fe-13 Auto Boxcars on the StJ&LC (was There were not a lot of 50 foot boxcars around in 1929)

Benjamin Hom
 

Don Valentine asked:
"Speaking of early 50 ft. cars I'll bring this type up at least one of which ended up here in Vermont on our little St. Johnsbury & Lamoille County RR. This was a 50 ft., single sheathed ex-Santa Fe car that had the heaviest cast underframe I can ever recall seeing. It is that underframe that makes it stick in my mind because there were hollowed out places within it to account for the pivot of the trucks on sharp curves. I have no idea when it was constructed or by whom and, unfortunately, never got a photo of the one that sat just east of the Eastern States Farmers Exchange building for some years in the late 1970's and early 1980's. Does anyone know more about it from this meager description?"

Not single-sheathed cars, but ATSF Class Fe-13 rebuilt double-sheathed automobile boxcars.  I'm away from my references and won't be able to follow up until tonight, but another list member might be able to pull info from their copy of Santa Fe Furniture & Automobile Boxcars before then.


Ben Hom



Re: B&O C-16 Question

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 


Hi Chris and List Members,
 
Chris quoted the following: "As such, the cars likely did not go off B&O lines. Interchanged express cars had to have heat and car-end access in a train"
 
The PRR express X29 cars did not have heat nor car-end access, and they were interchanged EVERYWHERE in the nation as express cars on passenger trains.
 
Sorry, but basically the above quote does not hold water.
 
Claus Schlund
 
 
 
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, May 06, 2019 3:08 PM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] B&O C-16 Question

I passed you question over to the B&O group and here's the answer:
Having a pass-through electrical circuit for a C-16 express car makes little sense. These cars did not have end doors for access while in a train.  Also, according to their equipment diagram, they had a pass-though steam line, indicating no heat was provided in them. 
 
As such, the cars likely did not go off B&O lines. Interchanged express cars had to have heat and car-end access in a train. Express cars usually had some kind of lighting in them as well, often by means of a terminal connection.
 
These cars were often worked (being loaded and unladed) in dark, covered, terminal areas. The only available light being that of the open side door (no windows),more light would be needed inside the cars, especially at night. So that fixture may have been a provision to power added lights inside the car for express workers, by use of a terminal connection - maybe at 110 volts?. 
 
Nothing is mentioned about interior lights in the C-16 and C-17 diagrams. But the C-15 express car diagram notes 'head end electric' lighting. Car and head-end lighting circuits in the past were often 32 volt systems. 


Re: There were not a lot of 50 foot boxcars around in 1929

Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

   Speaking of early 50 ft. cars I'll bring this type up at least one of which ended up here in Vermont on our
little St. Johnsbury & Lamoille County RR. This was a 50 ft., single sheathed ex-Santa Fe car that had the
heaviest cast underframe I can ever recall seeing. It is that underframe that makes it stick in my mind
because there were hollowed out places within it to account for the pivot of the trucks on sharp curves.
I have no idea when it was constructed or by whom and, unfortunately, never got a photo of the one that
satjust east f the Eastern States Farmers Exchange building for some years in the late 1970's and early
1980's. Does anyone know more about it from this meager description?

Cordially, Don Valentine


Re: Improving a F&C Roof to make it look like a Hutchins roof

gtws00
 

Some nice improvements and good modeling tips
Thanks for posting
George Toman


Re: Etched freight car ladders

Tim O'Connor
 

There's a fair amount of DA stuff out there but I don't think it's being made anymore.
It will run out. And a lot of web sites are not kept up to date, although I've had good
experience with Pro Custom Hobbies. Let us know if they fill your order. :-)

Tim O'

On 5/7/2019 12:41 AM, pennsylvania1954 wrote:
Tim, Pierre, Nelson--Thanks. Now I know more than I did.

Pro Custom Hobbies http://www.procustomhobbies.com/catpages/DET.shtml shows DA 6241 and 6242 in stock, as well as lots of other DA stuff.
--
Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*


Re: Etched freight car ladders

Benjamin Hom
 

Colin 't Hart wrote:
"NB Branchline ladders are still available from Atlas too."

I don't see any parts listed for their ex-Branchline models on Atlas' website.


Ben Hom


Re: Etched freight car ladders

 

NB Branchline ladders are still available from Atlas too.

Choice is good!


Re: Etched freight car ladders

pennsylvania1954
 

Tim, Pierre, Nelson--Thanks. Now I know more than I did.

Pro Custom Hobbies http://www.procustomhobbies.com/catpages/DET.shtml shows DA 6241 and 6242 in stock, as well as lots of other DA stuff.
--
Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL


Re: There were not a lot of 50 foot boxcars around in 1929

Jim Gates
 

I see the ATSF Fe-M class, but not the Fe-K class.

Jim Gates
--------------------------------------------

On Mon, 5/6/19, Eric Lombard <elombard@uchicago.edu> wrote:

Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] There were not a lot of 50 foot boxcars around in 1929
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Date: Monday, May 6, 2019, 12:31 PM

Hello, again...
Curiosity led me to see what my database could produce for "50" ft cars built before the end of 1929. I searched: New-built series; Inside
length between 45-0 and 50-9; and in service 1928 or built new 1929. the data come from equipment diagrams, the ORER,
the ICC valuations, and various government, railroad, model, and historical publications. 
The resulting output, 18,841 cars in 63 Series sorted by build date is attached. The build
dates in the form 1-19xx are place holders. The year is documented but not the month. the data are reduced from the
complete data set available for each series.
There are some interesting series!
One complete with the rara avis VanDorn ends. The ascendancy of steel underframes, vertical brake wheels,steel ends
trucks  can be picked out.
Enjoy


Re: Roof Name help

Dennis Storzek
 

On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 07:05 AM, Tim O'Connor wrote:
When did Hutchins adopt this style, with the two raised "ribs" instead
of just one?

Tim O'
toggle quoted message. . .

 

On 5/6/2019 6:47 AM, Bill Welch wrote:
Indeed Tom yes the classic and in its time the ubiquitous Hutchins roof.

Bill Welch


--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*

Likely never, since it doesn't appear to be a Hutchins product. Best match I find is the Chicago-Cleveland "Climax" roof illustrated in the 1931 CBC. Note it's a circular style roof. The equivalent Hutchins product was their "Camber" roof, illustrated in the same source. It had a series of short ribs at a 45* angle in the panels.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Roof Name help

Tim O'Connor
 

Thanks David. So noted.

Tim O'

On 5/6/2019 8:29 PM, David via Groups.Io wrote:
The roof in that N&W pic is a Climax radial, by Chicago-Cleveland (the various Viking roofs are their best-known product). The large clamps on the seam caps are characteristic of C-C's all-steel roofs.

If you're thinking of the Cambre radial roof used on the last X29s, C&O and NKP's ARA 1932 boxes, and DT&I's USRA ds rebuilds, that one dates back to at least circa 1915 or so (though the early applications had diagonal ridges in the panels).

David Thompson
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*


Improving a F&C Roof to make it look like a Hutchins roof

Bill Welch
 
Edited

Here is my attempt to model a Hutchins roof using the very basic roof F&C provides w/its sweet little D&H boxcar. I began by blackening the ends of the roof ribs to create contrast when I carve into the w/a Single Edge Razor Blade to try to create the "V" shape crimp. Using a Vernier I determined the ribs are not exactly the same distance apart—in fact there were three different spacings, all very close. Determining the middle of the sections is a major pain for this reason and you are on your own here. Once I was happy with each I drew a line to mark the center and using Testers laid down .010 styrene rod. Use enough to more or less melt it in place. Let it dry over night. Next day I made marks where the rod should be cut on each end and then laid down fillets of CA along each edge to both secure the rod in place and make the rod look more like a stamping. I let the rest for a day and then sanded with #600 SP after beveling each end as if it if blends into the roof panel. The I marked where the  Grandt Line Nut/Washer should go and drilled the holes. I think there are their #1 or #101. These were secured with CA inside the body but held in place with Testers.

The roof saddles were very Wimpy and needed be built-up with strip styrene. The white resin is very hard to photograph but hopefully photos are good enough. The roof is not machine perfect but is a lot closer to the real thing with these changes I think. Same thing ca be done with 40-foot car as on the F&C PRR X26 I am working presently.

Bill Welch


Roof Name help

David
 

The roof in that N&W pic is a Climax radial, by Chicago-Cleveland (the various Viking roofs are their best-known product). The large clamps on the seam caps are characteristic of C-C's all-steel roofs.

If you're thinking of the Cambre radial roof used on the last X29s, C&O and NKP's ARA 1932 boxes, and DT&I's USRA ds rebuilds, that one dates back to at least circa 1915 or so (though the early applications had diagonal ridges in the panels).

David Thompson


Re: There were not a lot of 50 foot boxcars around in 1929

Eric Hansmann
 

Thanks for the extra Rock Island data and the Excel file, Eric. These details are fascinating.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Eric Lombard
Sent: Monday, May 6, 2019 9:43 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] There were not a lot of 50 foot boxcars around in 1929

 

Good Morning, Everyone...

I agree with Eric: The did not acquire *any* 50 foot single-sheathed cars with a deep fishbelly side sill. There appear to be only three candidates for the mystery car:

 

Marks   Series                            Qty                Date      Builder

RIA&L    261000-261124  125         1912       WSC

CRI&P   261125-261449  325         1912       WSC

CRI&P   261450-261949  500         1913       PUL

 

On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 9:12 AM Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:

Attached it is an edit of the image concentrating on the line of cars on the right side of the original. I tweaked levels, contrast, and brightness in Photoshop. Only one Lackawanna boxcar number came out well but we can see hints of car letting on the two automobile boxcars.

I’m not certain if the fishbelly sidesill car is Illinois Central. I thought it was at first and now wonder if it is a Rock Island car. When did the R.I. reporting marks come into use? I see only two blurry initials for the reporting marks.

 

I don't have a 1929 ORER at hand but can offer data from the October 1926 ORER for the 50-foot automobile boxcar quantities of the IC, CRI&P, CB&Q, and UP.

Illinois Central listed 293 automobile boxcars of 50-foot length or more. These represented 1.2% of the 24,229 cars listed for their 1926 boxcar fleet.

CRI&P listed 1448 automobile boxcars of 50-foot length or more. These represented 4.6% of the 31,459 cars listed for their 1926 boxcar fleet.

The CB&Q listed 982 automobile boxcars of 50-foot length or more. These represented 3.1% of the 31,612 cars listed for their 1926 boxcar fleet.

Union Pacific listed 2606 automobile boxcars of 50-foot length or more. These represented 8.8% of the 29,532 cars listed for their 1926 boxcar fleet.

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
Sent: Sunday, May 5, 2019 2:56 PM
To: STMFC <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] There were not a lot of 50 foot boxcars around in 1929

 

Hi List Members,

 

There were not a lot of 50 foot boxcars around in 1929, but there were some.

 

Here is a nice view of three different ones, all gathered together at the extreme right side of the image, taken in 1929.

 

 

Too bad the negative has some damage, and the film resolution is not quite where we can make out the road numbers. I think the rightmost one (partial view only) is Union Pacific, the next one moving left might be CB&Q, but I cannot quite make out the other with the fishbelly underframe, maybe it is Illiniois Central? Thoughts?

 

Enjoy!

 

Claus Schlund

 


Re: There were not a lot of 50 foot boxcars around in 1929

Eric Hansmann
 

The photo was taken at the DL&W Jersey City facilities in 1929. The top level may be a coal unloading dock to transfer coal from rail to barge or ship.

 

I do not know the function of the second level.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Wiggs
Sent: Monday, May 6, 2019 2:13 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] There were not a lot of 50 foot boxcars around in 1929

 

Can anyone identify the structure with two or maybe three levels of track loading?  I presume the top level is for trucks.

 

Davo in Orlando


Re: There were not a lot of 50 foot boxcars around in 1929

Eric Lombard
 

Hello Everyone, again...

Rupert, I purposely did not include series rebuilt, or renumbered, or both. The rebuilt and renumbered series you list is indeed in the data. 
A couple of additional photos of the Pullman lot. All the RI series had auto end doors.



On Sun, May 5, 2019 at 2:56 PM Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;) <claus@...> wrote:
Hi List Members,
 
There were not a lot of 50 foot boxcars around in 1929, but there were some.
 
Here is a nice view of three different ones, all gathered together at the extreme right side of the image, taken in 1929.
 
 
Too bad the negative has some damage, and the film resolution is not quite where we can make out the road numbers. I think the rightmost one (partial view only) is Union Pacific, the next one moving left might be CB&Q, but I cannot quite make out the other with the fishbelly underframe, maybe it is Illiniois Central? Thoughts?
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund
 


Re: Etched freight car ladders

Scott
 

Those look kind of like the ladders that came in the Railyard Models kits.

Ever since I switched to using the little metal brake from UMM-USA the YMW ladder stiles have been a breeze.  I dont see switching from them.  I put the link below for the bender.  I dont use the screw in it as shown.  I just squeeze down when bending.  I do wish YMW had ladder stiles with an extra rung so they can be cut to a custom length to better match a prototype with uncommon ladders.

http://umm-usa.com/onlinestore/product_info.php?cPath=21_225&products_id=59

Scott McDonald

17121 - 17140 of 181233