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Re: ex-ATSF Class Fe-13 Auto Boxcars on the StJ&LC (was There were not a lot of 50 foot boxcars around in 1929)

Eric Lombard
 

Hello Don and Ben,

The SJL cars have a meandering history starting for some in 1909. It was fun to pull this together.

SJL 3000-3063  4 deep fishbelly sills in underframe. 
  • 1909, 1910, 1912 -- 1500 cars. as ATSF Fe-K, Fe-M wood-sheathed.
  • 1936-1937 -- 1309 cars rebuilt to steel sheathing, ends, roof, into several classes, mismatched ends, and some with auto end doors.
  • 1955 -- 200 (approx: 130 Fe-13; 24 Fe-08; 22 Fe-09; 24 Fe-11) renumbered to DT&I 16000-16199. 
  • 1956 -- 64, DT&I 16200-16263, keeping same serials, rebuilt by DT&I to IH 10-3 and unusual side door pattern. Equipment diagram indicates in Note 2: "car sides are not symmetrical - in  that doors on left side are closer to car CL by 3'-0 1/2". The diagram clearly shows the asymmetry. The effect is to shift the door opening one side sheet to the  right on the left side of the car resulting in a different side sheet pattern on the right and left sides:
right | : : : [ | ] : : : : : : |A-end,  
left   | : : : : [ | ] : : : : : |A-end  
  • ~1960-1961 all 64 to  SJL 3000-3063.

1960(10)   Not listed in ORER.
1959-1962 the underframes turn 50 years old.
196x  64  RENO from DT&I 16200-16263
1961(7)  64  listed in ORER.
1962(1)  64
1969-1972  Underframes turn 60 years old.  
1969(4)  40  (9 cars with hatches in roof, mechanical class LC)
1970(1)  31  (9 cars with hatches in roof, mechanical class LC)
1972(1)    8  (1 car with hatches in roof, mechanical class LC)


On Tue, May 7, 2019 at 8:49 AM Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...> wrote:
Don Valentine asked:
"Speaking of early 50 ft. cars I'll bring this type up at least one of which ended up here in Vermont on our little St. Johnsbury & Lamoille County RR. This was a 50 ft., single sheathed ex-Santa Fe car that had the heaviest cast underframe I can ever recall seeing. It is that underframe that makes it stick in my mind because there were hollowed out places within it to account for the pivot of the trucks on sharp curves. I have no idea when it was constructed or by whom and, unfortunately, never got a photo of the one that sat just east of the Eastern States Farmers Exchange building for some years in the late 1970's and early 1980's. Does anyone know more about it from this meager description?"

Not single-sheathed cars, but ATSF Class Fe-13 rebuilt double-sheathed automobile boxcars.  I'm away from my references and won't be able to follow up until tonight, but another list member might be able to pull info from their copy of Santa Fe Furniture & Automobile Boxcars before then.


Ben Hom
Re: SOUTHERN PACIFIC B-50-25 - ACCURATE MODEL

Ken Adams
 
Edited

Some years back (2015) I built a B-50-25 from Andy Carlson's IM parts kit and other parts such as a Kadee Apex roofwalk, (I subsequently fixed the wavy look in the photo) brake wheel  and South West Scale doors. I think I used Tichy ladders not being into etched brass as I would today. 


A fun build. 

Ken
Greif Miniatures Realistic Light Lens

qmp211
 


Greif Miniatures Realistic Light Lens
 
Sprue Brothers announced Greif Miniatures Realistic Lights Lens are now in-stock in their weekly newsletter.
 
They are available in various colors in sizes 1.0 mm to 2.7 mm.
 
 
Sprue Brothers carries a nice selection of unique scratch building supplies and tools not found other places.
 
I have no affiliation other than a customer.
 
Randy Danniel
Re: B&O C-16 Question

Tony Thompson
 

I agree with Claus. Most railroads rostered express box cars, AAR Class BX, and all were as  Claus described for the X29.
Tony Thompson 


On May 7, 2019, at 6:10 AM, Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;) <claus@...> wrote:

Hi Chris and List Members,
 
Chris quoted the following: "As such, the cars likely did not go off B&O lines. Interchanged express cars had to have heat and car-end access in a train"
 
The PRR express X29 cars did not have heat nor car-end access, and they were interchanged EVERYWHERE in the nation as express cars on passenger trains.
 
Sorry, but basically the above quote does not hold water.
 
Claus Schlund
 
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, May 06, 2019 3:08 PM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] B&O C-16 Question

I passed you question over to the B&O group and here's the answer:
Having a pass-through electrical circuit for a C-16 express car makes little sense. These cars did not have end doors for access while in a train.  Also, according to their equipment diagram, they had a pass-though steam line, indicating no heat was provided in them. 
 
As such, the cars likely did not go off B&O lines. Interchanged express cars had to have heat and car-end access in a train. Express cars usually had some kind of lighting in them as well, often by means of a terminal connection.
 
These cars were often worked (being loaded and unladed) in dark, covered, terminal areas. The only available light being that of the open side door (no windows),more light would be needed inside the cars, especially at night. So that fixture may have been a provision to power added lights inside the car for express workers, by use of a terminal connection - maybe at 110 volts?. 
 
Nothing is mentioned about interior lights in the C-16 and C-17 diagrams. But the C-15 express car diagram notes 'head end electric' lighting. Car and head-end lighting circuits in the past were often 32 volt systems. 
Re: There were not a lot of 50 foot boxcars around in 1929

Tim O'Connor
 


I have several photos of the car that I haven't scanned. Here's a picture
I found on the internet somewhere. The car is an Fe-13 and first went to the
DT&I (lettering was visible when I took photos) and then the StJ&LC.

Tim


On 5/7/2019 7:58 AM, Donald B. Valentine via Groups.Io wrote:
   Speaking of early 50 ft. cars I'll bring this type up at least one of which ended up here in Vermont on our
little St. Johnsbury & Lamoille County RR. This was a 50 ft., single sheathed ex-Santa Fe car that had the
heaviest cast underframe I can ever recall seeing. It is that underframe that makes it stick in my mind
because there were hollowed out places within it to account for the pivot of the trucks on sharp curves.
I have no idea when it was constructed or by whom and, unfortunately, never got a photo of the one that
satjust east f the Eastern States Farmers Exchange building for some years in the late 1970's and early
1980's. Does anyone know more about it from this meager description?

Cordially, Don Valentine
_._,_._,_

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts
Re: There were not a lot of 50 foot boxcars around in 1929

Eric Lombard
 

Good Morning, Everyone...Again

Thanks to Rupert Gamlen (CB&Q X-5 class) and Jim Gates ( ATSF Fe-K class.) for noting two classes missing in the  50 ft cars Excel data table. The two are definitely in the database but somehow my query that produced the excel spreadsheet was not constructed correctly (its complicated). So, here is the last word baring further notifications form RR specific knowledgeable list members. 

The table lists 114 series and includes those built new up to 12-1929, those either new, or renumbered, or rebuilt without renumbering, or rebuilt and renumbered and in service in 1928, 

I very much appreciated the interest and comments from the members and the opportunity to polish my query skills. There are 8500 series in the box car database: those that came into existence new between 1910- 1944, or as renumbered or rebuilt from those cars up through the 1960's. Series built prior to 1910 but with steel underframes are also included and similarly cars from select railroads that appeal to me: Illinois Central and absorbed lines at the moment. The box car database is a work in progress and is now nearing 35 years of data entry. 

The dates in the format 1-18xx or 1-1900 are place holders: the year is documented but the month is pending documentation.


On Sun, May 5, 2019 at 2:56 PM Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;) <claus@...> wrote:
Hi List Members,
 
There were not a lot of 50 foot boxcars around in 1929, but there were some.
 
Here is a nice view of three different ones, all gathered together at the extreme right side of the image, taken in 1929.
 
 
Too bad the negative has some damage, and the film resolution is not quite where we can make out the road numbers. I think the rightmost one (partial view only) is Union Pacific, the next one moving left might be CB&Q, but I cannot quite make out the other with the fishbelly underframe, maybe it is Illiniois Central? Thoughts?
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund
 
Re: ex-ATSF Class Fe-13 Auto Boxcars on the StJ&LC (was There were not a lot of 50 foot boxcars around in 1929)

Benjamin Hom
 

Don Valentine asked:
"Speaking of early 50 ft. cars I'll bring this type up at least one of which ended up here in Vermont on our little St. Johnsbury & Lamoille County RR. This was a 50 ft., single sheathed ex-Santa Fe car that had the heaviest cast underframe I can ever recall seeing. It is that underframe that makes it stick in my mind because there were hollowed out places within it to account for the pivot of the trucks on sharp curves. I have no idea when it was constructed or by whom and, unfortunately, never got a photo of the one that sat just east of the Eastern States Farmers Exchange building for some years in the late 1970's and early 1980's. Does anyone know more about it from this meager description?"

StJ&LC also had secondhand 50 ft SS automobile boxcars. These had fishbelly sidesill reinforcements at the door opening, but are definitely not the same as the massive underframes on the ex-ATSF automobile boxcars.  I believe you conflated the features of the two series of cars.

My gut feeling is that these are ex-CB&Q, but I'll leave it to their experts on the list to confirm.


Ben Hom
ex-ATSF Class Fe-13 Auto Boxcars on the StJ&LC (was There were not a lot of 50 foot boxcars around in 1929)

Benjamin Hom
 

Don Valentine asked:
"Speaking of early 50 ft. cars I'll bring this type up at least one of which ended up here in Vermont on our little St. Johnsbury & Lamoille County RR. This was a 50 ft., single sheathed ex-Santa Fe car that had the heaviest cast underframe I can ever recall seeing. It is that underframe that makes it stick in my mind because there were hollowed out places within it to account for the pivot of the trucks on sharp curves. I have no idea when it was constructed or by whom and, unfortunately, never got a photo of the one that sat just east of the Eastern States Farmers Exchange building for some years in the late 1970's and early 1980's. Does anyone know more about it from this meager description?"

Not single-sheathed cars, but ATSF Class Fe-13 rebuilt double-sheathed automobile boxcars.  I'm away from my references and won't be able to follow up until tonight, but another list member might be able to pull info from their copy of Santa Fe Furniture & Automobile Boxcars before then.


Ben Hom
Re: B&O C-16 Question

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 


Hi Chris and List Members,
 
Chris quoted the following: "As such, the cars likely did not go off B&O lines. Interchanged express cars had to have heat and car-end access in a train"
 
The PRR express X29 cars did not have heat nor car-end access, and they were interchanged EVERYWHERE in the nation as express cars on passenger trains.
 
Sorry, but basically the above quote does not hold water.
 
Claus Schlund
 
 
 
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, May 06, 2019 3:08 PM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] B&O C-16 Question

I passed you question over to the B&O group and here's the answer:
Having a pass-through electrical circuit for a C-16 express car makes little sense. These cars did not have end doors for access while in a train.  Also, according to their equipment diagram, they had a pass-though steam line, indicating no heat was provided in them. 
 
As such, the cars likely did not go off B&O lines. Interchanged express cars had to have heat and car-end access in a train. Express cars usually had some kind of lighting in them as well, often by means of a terminal connection.
 
These cars were often worked (being loaded and unladed) in dark, covered, terminal areas. The only available light being that of the open side door (no windows),more light would be needed inside the cars, especially at night. So that fixture may have been a provision to power added lights inside the car for express workers, by use of a terminal connection - maybe at 110 volts?. 
 
Nothing is mentioned about interior lights in the C-16 and C-17 diagrams. But the C-15 express car diagram notes 'head end electric' lighting. Car and head-end lighting circuits in the past were often 32 volt systems. 
Re: There were not a lot of 50 foot boxcars around in 1929

Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

   Speaking of early 50 ft. cars I'll bring this type up at least one of which ended up here in Vermont on our
little St. Johnsbury & Lamoille County RR. This was a 50 ft., single sheathed ex-Santa Fe car that had the
heaviest cast underframe I can ever recall seeing. It is that underframe that makes it stick in my mind
because there were hollowed out places within it to account for the pivot of the trucks on sharp curves.
I have no idea when it was constructed or by whom and, unfortunately, never got a photo of the one that
satjust east f the Eastern States Farmers Exchange building for some years in the late 1970's and early
1980's. Does anyone know more about it from this meager description?

Cordially, Don Valentine
Re: Improving a F&C Roof to make it look like a Hutchins roof

gtws00
 

Some nice improvements and good modeling tips
Thanks for posting
George Toman
Re: Etched freight car ladders

Tim O'Connor
 

There's a fair amount of DA stuff out there but I don't think it's being made anymore.
It will run out. And a lot of web sites are not kept up to date, although I've had good
experience with Pro Custom Hobbies. Let us know if they fill your order. :-)

Tim O'

On 5/7/2019 12:41 AM, pennsylvania1954 wrote:
Tim, Pierre, Nelson--Thanks. Now I know more than I did.

Pro Custom Hobbies http://www.procustomhobbies.com/catpages/DET.shtml shows DA 6241 and 6242 in stock, as well as lots of other DA stuff.
--
Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*
Re: Etched freight car ladders

Benjamin Hom
 

Colin 't Hart wrote:
"NB Branchline ladders are still available from Atlas too."

I don't see any parts listed for their ex-Branchline models on Atlas' website.
https://shop.atlasrr.com/c-1078-ho-master-rolling-stock-spare-.aspx


Ben Hom
Re: Etched freight car ladders

Colin 't Hart
 

NB Branchline ladders are still available from Atlas too.

Choice is good!
Re: Etched freight car ladders

pennsylvania1954
 

Tim, Pierre, Nelson--Thanks. Now I know more than I did.

Pro Custom Hobbies http://www.procustomhobbies.com/catpages/DET.shtml shows DA 6241 and 6242 in stock, as well as lots of other DA stuff.
--
Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL
Re: There were not a lot of 50 foot boxcars around in 1929

Jim Gates
 

I see the ATSF Fe-M class, but not the Fe-K class.

Jim Gates
--------------------------------------------

On Mon, 5/6/19, Eric Lombard <elombard@uchicago.edu> wrote:

Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] There were not a lot of 50 foot boxcars around in 1929
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Date: Monday, May 6, 2019, 12:31 PM

Hello, again...
Curiosity led me to see what my database could produce for "50" ft cars built before the end of 1929. I searched: New-built series; Inside
length between 45-0 and 50-9; and in service 1928 or built new 1929. the data come from equipment diagrams, the ORER,
the ICC valuations, and various government, railroad, model, and historical publications. 
The resulting output, 18,841 cars in 63 Series sorted by build date is attached. The build
dates in the form 1-19xx are place holders. The year is documented but not the month. the data are reduced from the
complete data set available for each series.
There are some interesting series!
One complete with the rara avis VanDorn ends. The ascendancy of steel underframes, vertical brake wheels,steel ends
trucks  can be picked out.
Enjoy
Re: Roof Name help

Dennis Storzek
 

On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 07:05 AM, Tim O'Connor wrote:
When did Hutchins adopt this style, with the two raised "ribs" instead
of just one?

Tim O'
toggle quoted message. . .

 

On 5/6/2019 6:47 AM, Bill Welch wrote:
Indeed Tom yes the classic and in its time the ubiquitous Hutchins roof.

Bill Welch


--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*

Likely never, since it doesn't appear to be a Hutchins product. Best match I find is the Chicago-Cleveland "Climax" roof illustrated in the 1931 CBC. Note it's a circular style roof. The equivalent Hutchins product was their "Camber" roof, illustrated in the same source. It had a series of short ribs at a 45* angle in the panels.

Dennis Storzek
Re: Roof Name help

Tim O'Connor
 

Thanks David. So noted.

Tim O'

On 5/6/2019 8:29 PM, David via Groups.Io wrote:
The roof in that N&W pic is a Climax radial, by Chicago-Cleveland (the various Viking roofs are their best-known product). The large clamps on the seam caps are characteristic of C-C's all-steel roofs.

If you're thinking of the Cambre radial roof used on the last X29s, C&O and NKP's ARA 1932 boxes, and DT&I's USRA ds rebuilds, that one dates back to at least circa 1915 or so (though the early applications had diagonal ridges in the panels).

David Thompson
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*
Improving a F&C Roof to make it look like a Hutchins roof

Bill Welch
 
Edited

Here is my attempt to model a Hutchins roof using the very basic roof F&C provides w/its sweet little D&H boxcar. I began by blackening the ends of the roof ribs to create contrast when I carve into the w/a Single Edge Razor Blade to try to create the "V" shape crimp. Using a Vernier I determined the ribs are not exactly the same distance apart—in fact there were three different spacings, all very close. Determining the middle of the sections is a major pain for this reason and you are on your own here. Once I was happy with each I drew a line to mark the center and using Testers laid down .010 styrene rod. Use enough to more or less melt it in place. Let it dry over night. Next day I made marks where the rod should be cut on each end and then laid down fillets of CA along each edge to both secure the rod in place and make the rod look more like a stamping. I let the rest for a day and then sanded with #600 SP after beveling each end as if it if blends into the roof panel. The I marked where the  Grandt Line Nut/Washer should go and drilled the holes. I think there are their #1 or #101. These were secured with CA inside the body but held in place with Testers.

The roof saddles were very Wimpy and needed be built-up with strip styrene. The white resin is very hard to photograph but hopefully photos are good enough. The roof is not machine perfect but is a lot closer to the real thing with these changes I think. Same thing ca be done with 40-foot car as on the F&C PRR X26 I am working presently.

Bill Welch
Roof Name help

David
 

The roof in that N&W pic is a Climax radial, by Chicago-Cleveland (the various Viking roofs are their best-known product). The large clamps on the seam caps are characteristic of C-C's all-steel roofs.

If you're thinking of the Cambre radial roof used on the last X29s, C&O and NKP's ARA 1932 boxes, and DT&I's USRA ds rebuilds, that one dates back to at least circa 1915 or so (though the early applications had diagonal ridges in the panels).

David Thompson
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