Date   
Re: ex-ATSF Class Fe-13 Auto Boxcars on the StJ&LC (was There were not a lot of 50 foot boxcars around in 1929)

Donald B. Valentine
 

Thank you Ben,

    Learning that these cars were rebuilt from double sheathed cars makes snese and probably should have been though of
on my part before. As a double sheathed car the reason for the underframe being so heavy becomes apparent even if it looks
like they went overboard on this group! Does anyone know when tey were rebuilt, when the went to the DT&I and when and
how many went to the St. J. & L.C.? None are listed inn the Oct 1976 ORER, the latest one I have, but #3043 and #3052 are
listed in the Jan. 1973 issue when Sam Pinsly still owned the St. J. There were 64 cars of the same description, #3000 -
#3063 listed in the Jan. 1962 ORER when Sam Pinsly's cousin H.E. Salzberg owned the St. J. so it appears they must has
been purchased around that time. That surprises me, however, as I was here attending college at that time, saw a St. J. train almost every week day, often road the switcher from Morrisville to the talc mill in Johnson or just road while the talc mill was being switched out and have no recollection of ever seeing any of these cars then, only the converted single sheathed, open top box cars
then used for limestone loading in Swanton for shipment to paper mills in Maine that the low sided Maine Central #17,000 series gondolas had been used for in steam days.

Cordially, Don Valentine

Re: There were not a lot of 50 foot boxcars around in 1929

Tim O'Connor
 

Don

I photographed the car all over (except the roof) in the early 1990's and sent prints to Martin Lofton,
hoping that Sunshine would be interested in doing these.

I, too, was very impressed by that massive underframe. I took a number of pictures of that!

Tim O'Connor


On 5/7/2019 4:21 PM, Donald B. Valentine via Groups.Io wrote:
Thank you Tim,

    My memory is getting fuzzy as these are exactly the cars I was thinking of. For some reason this morning I was thinking they were still single sheathed rather than rebuilt from such. You are also correct about them going to the DT&I first as I also remember
the DT&I compass emblem showing through on the right end of each side but couldn't think how it was on the car when thinking
they were still single sheathed this morning. Does anyone have a photo of these cars as built or at least when still Santa Fe equipment? They must have been rather interesting as built also with that very heavy underframe.

Cordially, Don Valentine


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: B&O C-16 Question

Matthew Hurst
 

Hello Claus and all,

To piggyback onto Claus's statement:

The PRR's REA X29s went everywhere. They were equipped with air,steam and signal lines just like the B&O's C17 cars. Also the B&O cars DID go offline. I have seen them show up on the CNJ, Reading and all the way out west on the UNION PACIFIC. So.......

Just saying 

Matthew Hurst


On May 7, 2019, at 9:10 AM, "Claus Schlund \(HGM\)" <claus@...> wrote:

Hi Chris and List Members,
 
Chris quoted the following: "As such, the cars likely did not go off B&O lines. Interchanged express cars had to have heat and car-end access in a train"
 
The PRR express X29 cars did not have heat nor car-end access, and they were interchanged EVERYWHERE in the nation as express cars on passenger trains.
 
Sorry, but basically the above quote does not hold water.
 
Claus Schlund
 
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, May 06, 2019 3:08 PM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] B&O C-16 Question

I passed you question over to the B&O group and here's the answer:
Having a pass-through electrical circuit for a C-16 express car makes little sense. These cars did not have end doors for access while in a train.  Also, according to their equipment diagram, they had a pass-though steam line, indicating no heat was provided in them. 
 
As such, the cars likely did not go off B&O lines. Interchanged express cars had to have heat and car-end access in a train. Express cars usually had some kind of lighting in them as well, often by means of a terminal connection.
 
These cars were often worked (being loaded and unladed) in dark, covered, terminal areas. The only available light being that of the open side door (no windows),more light would be needed inside the cars, especially at night. So that fixture may have been a provision to power added lights inside the car for express workers, by use of a terminal connection - maybe at 110 volts?. 
 
Nothing is mentioned about interior lights in the C-16 and C-17 diagrams. But the C-15 express car diagram notes 'head end electric' lighting. Car and head-end lighting circuits in the past were often 32 volt systems. 

Re: There were not a lot of 50 foot boxcars around in 1929

Benjamin Hom
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
"I photographed the car all over (except the roof) in the early 1990's and sent prints to Martin Lofton, hoping that Sunshine would be interested in doing these."

He eventually did.


Ben Hom

Re: ex-ATSF Class Fe-13 Auto Boxcars on the StJ&LC (was There were not a lot of 50 foot boxcars around in 1929)

Benjamin Hom
 

Don Valentine asked:
"Does anyone know when they were rebuilt, when they went to the DT&I and when and how many went to the St. J. & L.C.?"

See Eric Lombard's nice summary posted earlier today at 1:49 PM.


Ben Hom


Re: ex-ATSF Class Fe-13 Auto Boxcars on the StJ&LC (was There were not a lot of 50 foot boxcars around in 1929)

Steve and Barb Hile
 

I can't say for sure, but the single sheathed cars do look like Rock Island series 264000 - 264149 built by Standard Steel Car company in 1930.  In 1946, 54 of these cars had their roofs raised by 6 inches.  About the same time, the Rock Island was using a lot of plywood for replacement sheathing.  The RI sold a lot of equipment to the Salzberg lines in the 50's and 60's.  So all the circumstances are there.
 
Steve Hile



From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Scott
Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2019 2:34 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] ex-ATSF Class Fe-13 Auto Boxcars on the StJ&LC (was There were not a lot of 50 foot boxcars around in 1929)

Ben,

My guess for the cars in your reply would be Rock Island.  Maybe Steve Hile can weigh in on them.

Scott McDonald

Re: B&O C-16 Question

Nelson Moyer
 

Thank you  Matthew. Now I have justification for including C-16s in CB&Q consists, since the Q interchanged with UP in Omaha.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Matthew Hurst
Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2019 8:18 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Cc: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] B&O C-16 Question

 

Hello Claus and all,

 

To piggyback onto Claus's statement:

 

The PRR's REA X29s went everywhere. They were equipped with air,steam and signal lines just like the B&O's C17 cars. Also the B&O cars DID go offline. I have seen them show up on the CNJ, Reading and all the way out west on the UNION PACIFIC. So.......

 

Just saying 

 

Matthew Hurst


On May 7, 2019, at 9:10 AM, "Claus Schlund \(HGM\)" <claus@...> wrote:

Hi Chris and List Members,

 

Chris quoted the following: "As such, the cars likely did not go off B&O lines. Interchanged express cars had to have heat and car-end access in a train"

 

The PRR express X29 cars did not have heat nor car-end access, and they were interchanged EVERYWHERE in the nation as express cars on passenger trains.

 

Sorry, but basically the above quote does not hold water.

 

Claus Schlund

 

 

 

 

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, May 06, 2019 3:08 PM

Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] B&O C-16 Question

 

I passed you question over to the B&O group and here's the answer:

Having a pass-through electrical circuit for a C-16 express car makes little sense. These cars did not have end doors for access while in a train.  Also, according to their equipment diagram, they had a pass-though steam line, indicating no heat was provided in them. 

 

As such, the cars likely did not go off B&O lines. Interchanged express cars had to have heat and car-end access in a train. Express cars usually had some kind of lighting in them as well, often by means of a terminal connection.

 

These cars were often worked (being loaded and unladed) in dark, covered, terminal areas. The only available light being that of the open side door (no windows),more light would be needed inside the cars, especially at night. So that fixture may have been a provision to power added lights inside the car for express workers, by use of a terminal connection - maybe at 110 volts?. 

 

Nothing is mentioned about interior lights in the C-16 and C-17 diagrams. But the C-15 express car diagram notes 'head end electric' lighting. Car and head-end lighting circuits in the past were often 32 volt systems. 

Re: B&O C-16 Question

Matthew Hurst
 

You are welcome Nelson.  Anything I can do to help anyone grow there rolling stock fleet!

Of course you will NEED some PRR X29s in REA service, in your consists as well. I know I need a CB&Q car in at least one of my REA/express trains on the PRR.

Also, I have also seen Seaboard REA cars show up in CB&Q trains as well. 

Who says these cars didn't get around?!?!?!?!

Matthew Hurst



On May 7, 2019, at 7:47 PM, Nelson Moyer <npmoyer@...> wrote:


Thank you  Matthew. Now I have justification for including C-16s in CB&Q consists, since the Q interchanged with UP in Omaha.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Matthew Hurst
Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2019 8:18 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Cc: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] B&O C-16 Question

 

Hello Claus and all,

 

To piggyback onto Claus's statement:

 

The PRR's REA X29s went everywhere. They were equipped with air,steam and signal lines just like the B&O's C17 cars. Also the B&O cars DID go offline. I have seen them show up on the CNJ, Reading and all the way out west on the UNION PACIFIC. So.......

 

Just saying 

 

Matthew Hurst


On May 7, 2019, at 9:10 AM, "Claus Schlund \(HGM\)" <claus@...> wrote:

Hi Chris and List Members,

 

Chris quoted the following: "As such, the cars likely did not go off B&O lines. Interchanged express cars had to have heat and car-end access in a train"

 

The PRR express X29 cars did not have heat nor car-end access, and they were interchanged EVERYWHERE in the nation as express cars on passenger trains.

 

Sorry, but basically the above quote does not hold water.

 

Claus Schlund

 

 

 

 

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, May 06, 2019 3:08 PM

Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] B&O C-16 Question

 

I passed you question over to the B&O group and here's the answer:

Having a pass-through electrical circuit for a C-16 express car makes little sense. These cars did not have end doors for access while in a train.  Also, according to their equipment diagram, they had a pass-though steam line, indicating no heat was provided in them. 

 

As such, the cars likely did not go off B&O lines. Interchanged express cars had to have heat and car-end access in a train. Express cars usually had some kind of lighting in them as well, often by means of a terminal connection.

 

These cars were often worked (being loaded and unladed) in dark, covered, terminal areas. The only available light being that of the open side door (no windows),more light would be needed inside the cars, especially at night. So that fixture may have been a provision to power added lights inside the car for express workers, by use of a terminal connection - maybe at 110 volts?. 

 

Nothing is mentioned about interior lights in the C-16 and C-17 diagrams. But the C-15 express car diagram notes 'head end electric' lighting. Car and head-end lighting circuits in the past were often 32 volt systems. 

New England Prototype Meet (Casual) Op Session

Randy Hammill
 

So we're less than a month from the New England Prototype meet. As I often do, I'm opening my layout on Thursday, May 30 for a casual ops session.

I'm in the midst of some changes on the layout, but my buddy Joseph and I tested it for a quick op session and it worked well. 

The session will be at 6:00 pm, although folks can come by anytime starting at 1:00 pm. I can accommodate 6 operators:
New Britain switcher: conductor and engineer
Stanley Works switcher: conductor and engineer
Through trains: engineer
Freight Agent: handles the paperwork and prepares switch lists for the crews

If there's enough response, I can add a second session in the afternoon.

This will be a casual session, focused on 1949 when traffic was lower, making it easier to operate. The Berlin Line and second New Britain Switcher will not be in service for this session. 

I live about 20-30 minutes from the new site this year, and if you've been coming since it was in Collinsville, I'm easy to find since I'm only a half-mile from the original site. Contact me at nhrr [at] newbritainstation.com if you're interested in coming by. If you've never been here, there's plenty of info on my blog (http://blog.newbritainstation.com) and site (http://newbritainstation.com). 

This may very well be the first session with all NH power (prior sessions used O&W power leased from Bill Schneider). 

Randy

Randy Hammill
Modeling the New Haven Railroad 1946-1954  | https//:blog.newbritainstation.com

Re: There were not a lot of 50 foot boxcars around in 1929

Bill Daniels
 

Boy, those rivets look almost as substantial as the underframe!

Bill Daniels 
Santa Rosa, CA


On Tuesday, May 7, 2019, 3:25:01 PM PDT, Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...> wrote:


Tim O'Connor wrote:
"I photographed the car all over (except the roof) in the early 1990's and sent prints to Martin Lofton, hoping that Sunshine would be interested in doing these."

He eventually did.


Ben Hom

Re: ex-ATSF Class Fe-13 Auto Boxcars on the StJ&LC (was There were not a lot of 50 foot boxcars around in 1929)

Donald B. Valentine
 

    A large thank you to all who responded to my questions about the ex-Santa Fe, ex-DT&L cars some of which
ultimately ended upo here on the St. Johnsbury & Lamoille County RR. It has been a good learning experience,
especially to find that Sunshine actually offered a kit for these oddballs. Now to find one at an affordable price.

Thank you again everyone, Don Valentine

Re: B&O C-16 Question

Nelson Moyer
 

Depending on the year(s) you model, the Walthers P2K 12 panel 50 foot boxcar is a dead ringer for CB&Q XM-33 express boxcars. I bought four lettered for SP, stripped and repainted them Pullman green, decaled them with gold lettering, replaced the flimsy plastic sill steps with YMW etched sill steps, and installed Athearn Allied trucks to make four XM-33 express boxcars.

 

As for the X29s, I have pre-ordered six Red Caboose undecorated kits, some of which will be painted and lettered for freight service and some for express service. I know about the NYC, PRR, and C&O cars in Q trains, but I didn’t know about SAL.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Matthew Hurst
Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2019 7:04 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io; main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] B&O C-16 Question

 

You are welcome Nelson.  Anything I can do to help anyone grow there rolling stock fleet!

Of course you will NEED some PRR X29s in REA service, in your consists as well. I know I need a CB&Q car in at least one of my REA/express trains on the PRR.

Also, I have also seen Seaboard REA cars show up in CB&Q trains as well. 

Who says these cars didn't get around?!?!?!?!

 

Re: ex-ATSF Class Fe-13 Auto Boxcars on the StJ&LC (was There were not a lot of 50 foot boxcars around in 1929)

Scott
 

Don, 

Looks like Westerfield is going to do some Santa Fe FE cars.  Here is a part of the email they just sent out.

We are working on AT&SF Fe type furniture car Kits now.
Next are some C&NW SS boxcars.
We are also in the process of developing a new website - more later.
 Scott McDonald

Re: New England Prototype Meet (Casual) Op Session

Dave Owens
 

That is really good of you, Randy. 

Thanks!

Dave

On May 7, 2019, at 8:28 PM, Randy Hammill <nhrr@...> wrote:

So we're less than a month from the New England Prototype meet. As I often do, I'm opening my layout on Thursday, May 30 for a casual ops session.

I'm in the midst of some changes on the layout, but my buddy Joseph and I tested it for a quick op session and it worked well. 

The session will be at 6:00 pm, although folks can come by anytime starting at 1:00 pm. I can accommodate 6 operators:
New Britain switcher: conductor and engineer
Stanley Works switcher: conductor and engineer
Through trains: engineer
Freight Agent: handles the paperwork and prepares switch lists for the crews

If there's enough response, I can add a second session in the afternoon.

This will be a casual session, focused on 1949 when traffic was lower, making it easier to operate. The Berlin Line and second New Britain Switcher will not be in service for this session. 

I live about 20-30 minutes from the new site this year, and if you've been coming since it was in Collinsville, I'm easy to find since I'm only a half-mile from the original site. Contact me at nhrr [at] newbritainstation.com if you're interested in coming by. If you've never been here, there's plenty of info on my blog (http://blog.newbritainstation.com) and site (http://newbritainstation.com). 

This may very well be the first session with all NH power (prior sessions used O&W power leased from Bill Schneider). 

Randy

Randy Hammill
Modeling the New Haven Railroad 1946-1954  | https//:blog.newbritainstation.com

Re: B&O C-16 Question

Matthew Hurst
 

I am modeling October 1946- April 1947.  I think the XM-33 would work for my time period. They also had marker light brackets on them to...didn't they?

I'll shoot you some photos of the PRR X29s I did up for REA service.  I built 12 and have 2 more to finish....Yeah I'm nuts!  But the PRR ran REA trains with blocks of X29s....sometimes numbering 10-15 in one train! Needless to say...very interesting seeing passenger power pulling a pseudo freight train!

Matthew Hurst


On Tue, May 7, 2019, 9:26 PM Nelson Moyer <npmoyer@...> wrote:

Depending on the year(s) you model, the Walthers P2K 12 panel 50 foot boxcar is a dead ringer for CB&Q XM-33 express boxcars. I bought four lettered for SP, stripped and repainted them Pullman green, decaled them with gold lettering, replaced the flimsy plastic sill steps with YMW etched sill steps, and installed Athearn Allied trucks to make four XM-33 express boxcars.

 

As for the X29s, I have pre-ordered six Red Caboose undecorated kits, some of which will be painted and lettered for freight service and some for express service. I know about the NYC, PRR, and C&O cars in Q trains, but I didn’t know about SAL.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Matthew Hurst
Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2019 7:04 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io; main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] B&O C-16 Question

 

You are welcome Nelson.  Anything I can do to help anyone grow there rolling stock fleet!

Of course you will NEED some PRR X29s in REA service, in your consists as well. I know I need a CB&Q car in at least one of my REA/express trains on the PRR.

Also, I have also seen Seaboard REA cars show up in CB&Q trains as well. 

Who says these cars didn't get around?!?!?!?!

 

Re: SAL Express Cars [was B&O C-16 Question]

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Nelson,

Some Seaboard express cars looked like the attached photo. Does anybody make a Wine ventilator casting like this? Looks like a good candidate for a computer-generated part.

According to John Golden's article in the May 2009 SEABOARD COAST LINE MODELER these are former class B-6, a slightly modified 1932 AAR design with plate ends and a 31' 2" truck spacing. 55 cars were rebuilt as express cars 700-754 in 1943 with Wine ventilators and Allied Full Cushion trucks. The trucks were replaced with Buckeye trucks circa 1951. Seaboard added 755-769 to the express series in the 1960s, but they lacked the Wine ventilators.

I found this car in rural southern Virginia in 1982 or 1983.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 5/7/19 9:26 PM, Nelson Moyer wrote:

Depending on the year(s) you model, the Walthers P2K 12 panel 50 foot boxcar is a dead ringer for CB&Q XM-33 express boxcars. I bought four lettered for SP, stripped and repainted them Pullman green, decaled them with gold lettering, replaced the flimsy plastic sill steps with YMW etched sill steps, and installed Athearn Allied trucks to make four XM-33 express boxcars.

 

As for the X29s, I have pre-ordered six Red Caboose undecorated kits, some of which will be painted and lettered for freight service and some for express service. I know about the NYC, PRR, and C&O cars in Q trains, but I didn’t know about SAL.

 

Nelson Moyer

 



Re: B&O C-16 Question

Nelson Moyer
 

Yes, but the Custom Finishing (B-179) bracket used by some modelers is no longer available unless you find one in a hobby shop somewhere. It wasn’t correct for the Q, anyway, so the only option  now is to scatchbuild them. Here’s the basic data.

 

RPC Volume 6, p. 12

Burlington Bulletin No. 7

 

XM-33

 

50 ft. single door boxcars built in 1941

8500-8549

Allied trucks

50 operational in 1952

Painted Pullman green with white lettering in 1944

Fitted with steam, air, signal hoses to run in passenger trains

Wood running boards

Dreadnaught ends

Murphy rectangular panel roof

Camel corrugated 8 ft. doors

Straight side sills

 

As you can see, I misspoke re gold lettering. I was thinking of the converted troop kitchens (also from Walthers) that I’m working on to convert open window versions into CB&Q BE-1s. That entailed casting new ends and roof modifications. Walthers offered both the open window and plated window versions, but the open window was the original version with diaphragms. The Q removed the diaphragms, and plated the end windows, while leaving the side windows open for a few years before plating them over as well. Both plated and open ran in 1953. You could add a Q troop kitchen, since they traveled widely in storage mail service, mostly catalogs, colanders, magazines, etc.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Matthew Hurst
Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2019 9:35 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] B&O C-16 Question

 

I am modeling October 1946- April 1947.  I think the XM-33 would work for my time period. They also had marker light brackets on them to...didn't they?

 

I'll shoot you some photos of the PRR X29s I did up for REA service.  I built 12 and have 2 more to finish....Yeah I'm nuts!  But the PRR ran REA trains with blocks of X29s....sometimes numbering 10-15 in one train! Needless to say...very interesting seeing passenger power pulling a pseudo freight train!

 

Matthew Hurst

On Tue, May 7, 2019, 9:26 PM Nelson Moyer <npmoyer@...> wrote:

Depending on the year(s) you model, the Walthers P2K 12 panel 50 foot boxcar is a dead ringer for CB&Q XM-33 express boxcars. I bought four lettered for SP, stripped and repainted them Pullman green, decaled them with gold lettering, replaced the flimsy plastic sill steps with YMW etched sill steps, and installed Athearn Allied trucks to make four XM-33 express boxcars.

 

As for the X29s, I have pre-ordered six Red Caboose undecorated kits, some of which will be painted and lettered for freight service and some for express service. I know about the NYC, PRR, and C&O cars in Q trains, but I didn’t know about SAL.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Matthew Hurst
Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2019 7:04 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io; main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] B&O C-16 Question

 

You are welcome Nelson.  Anything I can do to help anyone grow there rolling stock fleet!

Of course you will NEED some PRR X29s in REA service, in your consists as well. I know I need a CB&Q car in at least one of my REA/express trains on the PRR.

Also, I have also seen Seaboard REA cars show up in CB&Q trains as well. 

Who says these cars didn't get around?!?!?!?!

 

Re: New Walthers USRA based cars

jerryglow2
 

I can't believe they came out with this garbage stuff which is available (usually better) by others and pass over redoing some of the P2K line. The rebuild is worst than the Atlas (and that's going some). Guess they figure on "smoke and mirrors" to fool the unknowing.

jerrryglow

Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Roof Name help

Bill Welch
 

Thank you for sharing this Elden. I cannot figure out how to send you a message from this site. Can you please email me at fgexbill(at)tampabay.rr.com as I have something I want to share with you.

Bill Welch

Re: There were not a lot of 50 foot boxcars around in 1929

Jon Miller
 

On 5/7/2019 5:36 PM, Bill Daniels via Groups.Io wrote:
Boy, those rivets look almost as substantial as the underframe!

    I have never seen that kit but that was my first thought.  Then I thought maybe the picture and lighting and shadows.  Has anyone actually looked/have/built that kit?

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, 
SPROG, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS