Date   
Re: Clover House Chalk Marks (An Alternative)

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

I agree with Bob Chaparro's assesment of Prismacolor pencils.  I would encourage taking this a step further and combining this with decals or dry transfers.  Michael Gross on one of his tutorials on boxcars used either decals or dry transfers,  weathered the car and then applied pencil chalk marks.  This gave a combination of new and old chalk marks.  The results are the best I have ever seen for realistic looking chalk marks.

Bill Pardie



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: "Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io" <chiefbobbb@...>
Date: 5/26/19 7:59 AM (GMT-10:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Clover House Chalk Marks (An Alternative)

Peter, I can't help you with this problem but as an alternative I recommend using Prismacolor Verithin (not regular Prismacolor) art pencils. I've conducted several 'hands-on" chalk marking clinics and most modelers learn to simulate good chalk marks within minutes.

Plus, you are not limited to the contents of a decal or dry transfer sheet.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Re: Clover House Chalk Marks (An Alternative)

Bob Chaparro
 

Peter, I can't help you with this problem but as an alternative I recommend using Prismacolor Verithin (not regular Prismacolor) art pencils. I've conducted several 'hands-on" chalk marking clinics and most modelers learn to simulate good chalk marks within minutes.

Plus, you are not limited to the contents of a decal or dry transfer sheet.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Re: Clover House Chalk Marks

Paul Doggett
 

Quite possibly it’s purple in colour and stinks to try and stop tramps drinking it.

Paul Doggett.  England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 


On 26 May 2019, at 18:47, steve_wintner via Groups.Io <steve_wintner@...> wrote:

I think we call methylated spirits "denatured alcohol" over here in the states

Liquid Poured On A Grain Load

Bob Chaparro
 

Liquid Poured On A Grain Load

In response to a photo of grain in a box car, Red Battreall commented that he worked at an elevator in the early 1950s. He stated, ..."after we filled the car to the proper height we would dump gallon jugs of some kind of pungent liquid that would take your breath away. I assume it was to fumigate the grain."

Does anyone know what this liquid was? If so, was this a common practice?

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Re: Clover House Chalk Marks

steve_wintner
 

I think we call methylated spirits "denatured alcohol" over here in the states

Re: Printing White Decals was Super Clean Degreaser to remove lettering

A&Y Dave in MD
 

This is my hobby. I couldn’t make enough at decals to compete with my day job. I have done special runs for friends at cost and supported the Carolina RPM with the Southern vent boxcar, but have no interest in a second career. I’ve seen what that can do to people.

 I bought a $200 printer and a $200 (with shipping from Germany) cartridge and i’m set for life.  I have printed about 30 8x11 sheets of decals so far and i haven’t gone below 95% full on cartridge. Some cannot afford $400 for all the custom white decals you’ll need, but for about a DCC sound loco cost, i felt it was worth the advantage to add a second number to a commercial car like the Kadee boxcar or create accurate 1934 era data and lettering.  I was looking to replace my ALPS and those are not made or supported commercially any more. The Ghost White AND printer was less than my investment in track/switches or DCC system or a single locomotive. Seems worth it to have my fleet of steam era cars be equally accurate.

Btw there is a US source for Ghost White now, so shipping will be less. 

Dave

Sent from Dave Bott' iPhone

--
____________________________
David Bott, modeling the A&Y in '34

Re: Super Clean Degreaser to remove lettering

A&Y Dave in MD
 

Nelson,

The Ghost White is a cartridge that replaces the black. I can switch.  I gave a clinic at the Greensberg, PA RPM on the Ghost White. I plan to give it at Winston-Salem’s Carolina RPM too.

Dave

Sent from Dave Bott' iPhone

--
____________________________
David Bott, modeling the A&Y in '34

Re: Clover House Chalk Marks

Paul Doggett
 

I have found when using British dry print transfers that have dried out methylated spirit helps them to adhere to any matt or gloss surface.

Paul 


On 26 May 2019, at 17:52, Andy Carlson <midcentury@...> wrote:

In my experience, CDS dry transfers seem to have problems with applications over gloss (Such as  Accu-Paint). Dull coat makes it workable. I agree that a slight warming helps the transfer material leave better.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA





Ok if you say so. I can't think of a single reason not to apply them over gloss.

Tim O


Peter is using dry transfers, not decals 😉   In my experience, dry transfers work equally well over both gloss or flat.


Regards,

Bruce Smith



Re: Doors with inside detail

O Fenton Wells
 

Looking good Tim, nicely done.
Fenton

On Sun, May 26, 2019 at 12:38 PM Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

well done!


On 5/26/2019 12:28 PM, StephenK wrote:
After potting around with this for a few weeks, I finally got a good result.   I tried several ways of pressing aluminum foil on the outside of the door, but nothing would get the detail to show properly.   An attempt at using strip styrene was more trouble than it was worth.  In addition, I realized that the kit door had latch detail molded in which would show on the inside.  I ended up making a simple casting.   I used a similar door out of my stash and carved off the latches, etc.   I attached the door to a sheet of plastic and poured Elmer's School Glue over the door.   I poked around in it to remove the bubbles and let it dry overnight.   The next day the glue was mostly dry and peeled off easily.  I ACC's it to the kit door, trimmed the excess and painted it Floquil Old Silver.   A little rust powder, and the door was done.   

A few other notes:  The wood interior walls had to be trimmed a bit to clear the kit roof.   I chose not to use the wood floor from the interior kit because it added a layer to the car that I though looked wrong--I painted the plastic kit floor instead.    I built bulkheads at each end of the car and filled the space with BBs for weight--a normal interior weight would add to the floor height and again I didn't want that.   I have left the car unweathered and the roof unattached until I decide what the load should be and get it built and installed (a car carrying bags of flour will have different weathering than a car carrying boxes of  merchandise).  In any case, the kit went together well and I am happy with the result.  

Attachments:



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...

Clover House Chalk Marks

Andy Carlson
 

In my experience, CDS dry transfers seem to have problems with applications over gloss (Such as  Accu-Paint). Dull coat makes it workable. I agree that a slight warming helps the transfer material leave better.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA





Ok if you say so. I can't think of a single reason not to apply them over gloss.

Tim O


Peter is using dry transfers, not decals 😉   In my experience, dry transfers work equally well over both gloss or flat.


Regards,

Bruce Smith



Re: Clover House Chalk Marks

Tim O'Connor
 


Ok if you say so. I can't think of a single reason not to apply them over gloss.

Tim O'


On 5/26/2019 12:34 PM, Bruce Smith wrote:

Tim,


Peter is using dry transfers, not decals 😉   In my experience, dry transfers work equally well over both gloss or flat.


Regards,

Bruce Smith




--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: Doors with inside detail

Tim O'Connor
 


well done!


On 5/26/2019 12:28 PM, StephenK wrote:
After potting around with this for a few weeks, I finally got a good result.   I tried several ways of pressing aluminum foil on the outside of the door, but nothing would get the detail to show properly.   An attempt at using strip styrene was more trouble than it was worth.  In addition, I realized that the kit door had latch detail molded in which would show on the inside.  I ended up making a simple casting.   I used a similar door out of my stash and carved off the latches, etc.   I attached the door to a sheet of plastic and poured Elmer's School Glue over the door.   I poked around in it to remove the bubbles and let it dry overnight.   The next day the glue was mostly dry and peeled off easily.  I ACC's it to the kit door, trimmed the excess and painted it Floquil Old Silver.   A little rust powder, and the door was done.   

A few other notes:  The wood interior walls had to be trimmed a bit to clear the kit roof.   I chose not to use the wood floor from the interior kit because it added a layer to the car that I though looked wrong--I painted the plastic kit floor instead.    I built bulkheads at each end of the car and filled the space with BBs for weight--a normal interior weight would add to the floor height and again I didn't want that.   I have left the car unweathered and the roof unattached until I decide what the load should be and get it built and installed (a car carrying bags of flour will have different weathering than a car carrying boxes of  merchandise).  In any case, the kit went together well and I am happy with the result.  

Attachments:

_._,_._,_


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: Clover House Chalk Marks

Tim O'Connor
 


Obviously must depend on storage conditions. I've used transfers 25+ years old with very
few problems. But one thing I always do is to transfer the SMALL stuff to decal paper first,
and brush over Microscale Liquid Decal Film. I started doing it just to make it easier to place
them exactly right. Regular decals dry out too, if they are stored improperly.

Tim O'Connor



On 5/26/2019 11:37 AM, Dennis Storzek wrote:
On Sun, May 26, 2019 at 07:43 AM, peteraue wrote:
My dry transfer sheets are a few years old. What am I doing wrong?
Dry transfers eventually go bad. They are sticky ink printed on wax paper; pressing them against another surface causes the ink to stick to the surface better than it sticks to the wax, and it transfers. With age the ink drys out and becomes hard and less sticky and it will no longer transfer. I haven't tried this, but for small transfers like chalk marks, you might try gently warming the spot on the sheet over an incandescent light bulb and see if it transfers better warm.

Dennis Storzek


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: Clover House Chalk Marks

Bruce Smith
 

Tim,


Peter is using dry transfers, not decals 😉   In my experience, dry transfers work equally well over both gloss or flat.


Regards,

Bruce

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL




From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
Sent: Sunday, May 26, 2019 10:03 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Clover House Chalk Marks
 
Peter

decals should be applied prior to Dullcote

over Dullcote your best bets

     (1) fine artist's pencils (e.g. PrismaColor)
     (2) Gelly Roll fine & medium WHITE ink pens

Tim




On 5/26/2019 10:43 AM, peteraue via Groups.Io wrote:
> I am looking for guidance because I'd much rather use dry transfer
> chalk marks than decals. Though my car sides have a fresh flat
> Dullcote finish I cannot get my Clover House chalk marks to stick to??
> the surface. Besides various hardness pencils, I've tried every
> suitable device in my arsenal with absolutely no luck. Sometimes, a
> part of the chalk mark sticks but then the other part doesn't come off
> the carrier paper. Is there a degradation of the adhesive with age? My
> dry transfer sheets are a few years old. What am I doing wrong?
>
> Peter Aue


--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*



Re: Doors with inside detail

Paul Doggett
 

Stephen 

That’s looking really good.

Paul Doggett.  England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 


On 26 May 2019, at 17:28, StephenK <thekays100@...> wrote:

After potting around with this for a few weeks, I finally got a good result.   I tried several ways of pressing aluminum foil on the outside of the door, but nothing would get the detail to show properly.   An attempt at using strip styrene was more trouble than it was worth.  In addition, I realized that the kit door had latch detail molded in which would show on the inside.  I ended up making a simple casting.   I used a similar door out of my stash and carved off the latches, etc.   I attached the door to a sheet of plastic and poured Elmer's School Glue over the door.   I poked around in it to remove the bubbles and let it dry overnight.   The next day the glue was mostly dry and peeled off easily.  I ACC's it to the kit door, trimmed the excess and painted it Floquil Old Silver.   A little rust powder, and the door was done.   

A few other notes:  The wood interior walls had to be trimmed a bit to clear the kit roof.   I chose not to use the wood floor from the interior kit because it added a layer to the car that I though looked wrong--I painted the plastic kit floor instead.    I built bulkheads at each end of the car and filled the space with BBs for weight--a normal interior weight would add to the floor height and again I didn't want that.   I have left the car unweathered and the roof unattached until I decide what the load should be and get it built and installed (a car carrying bags of flour will have different weathering than a car carrying boxes of  merchandise).  In any case, the kit went together well and I am happy with the result.  

Attachments:

Re: Doors with inside detail

StephenK
 

After potting around with this for a few weeks, I finally got a good result.   I tried several ways of pressing aluminum foil on the outside of the door, but nothing would get the detail to show properly.   An attempt at using strip styrene was more trouble than it was worth.  In addition, I realized that the kit door had latch detail molded in which would show on the inside.  I ended up making a simple casting.   I used a similar door out of my stash and carved off the latches, etc.   I attached the door to a sheet of plastic and poured Elmer's School Glue over the door.   I poked around in it to remove the bubbles and let it dry overnight.   The next day the glue was mostly dry and peeled off easily.  I ACC's it to the kit door, trimmed the excess and painted it Floquil Old Silver.   A little rust powder, and the door was done.   

A few other notes:  The wood interior walls had to be trimmed a bit to clear the kit roof.   I chose not to use the wood floor from the interior kit because it added a layer to the car that I though looked wrong--I painted the plastic kit floor instead.    I built bulkheads at each end of the car and filled the space with BBs for weight--a normal interior weight would add to the floor height and again I didn't want that.   I have left the car unweathered and the roof unattached until I decide what the load should be and get it built and installed (a car carrying bags of flour will have different weathering than a car carrying boxes of  merchandise).  In any case, the kit went together well and I am happy with the result.  

Re: Super Clean Degreaser to remove lettering

Dennis Storzek
 

On Sat, May 25, 2019 at 08:35 PM, A&Y Dave in MD wrote:
So Super Clean degreaser works on Accurail and Kadee lettering!
A word of warning. One of the reasons that Accurail makes no recommendation for a product to selectively remove lettering is over the past thirty years we have used paint from at least a dozen different suppliers. What works on one may not work so well on another, and neither we nor you have any way of telling which paint is under the lettering. I will assume that every other manufacturer has been forced to change paint suppliers for one reason or another. The key here is TEST. Find a hidden spot under or inside the model where you can test the solvent on the paint alone before committing to a highly noticeable spot on the model. Just because a certain solvent worked on one model of a particular brand does not mean it will be safe on all.

Dennis Storzek
Accurail, Inc.

Re: Clover House Chalk Marks

Dennis Storzek
 

On Sun, May 26, 2019 at 07:43 AM, peteraue wrote:
My dry transfer sheets are a few years old. What am I doing wrong?
Dry transfers eventually go bad. They are sticky ink printed on wax paper; pressing them against another surface causes the ink to stick to the surface better than it sticks to the wax, and it transfers. With age the ink drys out and becomes hard and less sticky and it will no longer transfer. I haven't tried this, but for small transfers like chalk marks, you might try gently warming the spot on the sheet over an incandescent light bulb and see if it transfers better warm.

Dennis Storzek

Re: Clover House Chalk Marks

Tim O'Connor
 

Peter

decals should be applied prior to Dullcote

over Dullcote your best bets

    (1) fine artist's pencils (e.g. PrismaColor)
    (2) Gelly Roll fine & medium WHITE ink pens

Tim

On 5/26/2019 10:43 AM, peteraue via Groups.Io wrote:
I am looking for guidance because I'd much rather use dry transfer chalk marks than decals. Though my car sides have a fresh flat Dullcote finish I cannot get my Clover House chalk marks to stick to?? the surface. Besides various hardness pencils, I've tried every suitable device in my arsenal with absolutely no luck. Sometimes, a part of the chalk mark sticks but then the other part doesn't come off the carrier paper. Is there a degradation of the adhesive with age? My dry transfer sheets are a few years old. What am I doing wrong?

Peter Aue
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*

Clover House Chalk Marks

peteraue
 

I am looking for guidance because I'd much rather use dry transfer chalk marks than decals. Though my car sides have a fresh flat Dullcote finish I cannot get my Clover House chalk marks to stick to?? the surface. Besides various hardness pencils, I've tried every suitable device in my arsenal with absolutely no luck. Sometimes, a part of the chalk mark sticks but then the other part doesn't come off the carrier paper. Is there a degradation of the adhesive with age? My dry transfer sheets are a few years old. What am I doing wrong?

Peter Aue