Date   
Re: Results, was Re: Super Clean Degreaser to remove lettering

Nelson Moyer
 

It looks good to me.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of A&Y Dave in MD
Sent: Monday, May 27, 2019 5:59 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Results, was Re: Super Clean Degreaser to remove lettering

 

Okay,

I added the Ghost White replacement numeral.  What do you think?

Dave



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Sent from David Bott's desktop pc


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____________________________
David Bott, modeling the A&Y in '34

Rapido NP DS Boxcars

gary laakso
 

The car fleet ended up with many duplicate numbers, so the weekend hobby time has been spent upgrading the cars and changing their numbers.  Kadee scale couplers became and the replacements and InterMountain semi scale wheel sets were substituted and brushed painted as the renumbering was underway.  Solvaset was able to soften the numbers after the second drop was allowed to evaporate.  Some easy rubbing removed the last number of the six models completed.  The NPRA decal set for Rapido Boxcars was such a perfect match that the Rapido cars could have been decaled.  Of course, the earliest of the boxcars required the removal and replacement of the  very small car number used in the NP style of car capacity on the right side in addition to the large number on the left side.   The assembled Sunshine kits for this series compares very well with the Rapidos. 

 

Gary Laakso

Northwest of Mike Brock

 



Anyone make this?

Roger Huber
 

Does anyone make either this car or decals in HO?

Thanks,
Roger Huber

Results, was Re: Super Clean Degreaser to remove lettering

A&Y Dave in MD
 

Okay,

I added the Ghost White replacement numeral.  What do you think?

Dave



--

Sent from David Bott's desktop pc
--
____________________________
David Bott, modeling the A&Y in '34

Re: SAL AF-5

Brent Greer
 

Thanks for the update Chad.  Keep us informed when you are ready to release.   I'll be good for an order !

Brent

________________________________
Dr. J. Brent Greer


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Chad Boas via Groups.Io <chadboas@...>
Sent: Monday, May 27, 2019 12:17:18 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] SAL AF-5
 
I'll have a new kit or two for the Collinsville meet.
Fenton and I have worked together and come up with ends, doors and lower side sills to make the SAL AF-5.
I used a Branchline AAR kit. Here it is still needing some work.
Chad Boas

Re: Printing White Decals - 'Fonts'

Richard Brennan
 

At 01:10 PM 5/27/2019, Dennis Storzek wrote:
<snip> Be aware that in older B&W prints it is not uncommon for areas of great contrast, such as white lettering on a dark car side, to 'swell' as the bright light affects the film emulsion slightly outside of the actual boundaries of the white object. When the negative was printed, this makes the lettering appear bolder than it should be.
...and that contrast flare can make '8' and '6' nearly indistinguishable, as well as 'O' and 'D' or even 'B' and 'E'.

There are some lettering styles that did have rounded serifs, more common today than during the steam era.
I have yet to identify a complete rounded serif freight car lettering set from the steam era.
One can only imagine the greater difficulty in shop fabricating the stencils; with a rounded end needing to be cut at the end of every stroke.
THROW AWAY that 'Arial Rounded MT Bold' !!!

Richard

Re: Printing White Decals - 'Fonts'

Dennis Storzek
 

On Mon, May 27, 2019 at 11:29 AM, Richard Brennan wrote:
More caveats:
 - Even before 'named' trains.. the road name lettering on engines and passenger cars was NOT necessarily the same as that on freight cars.
 - The stencil diagram a historical society has for 9-inch letters probably does NOT scale down correctly to 2, 3 or 4-inch markings.
   Even if the letter outline is the same (or similar) the stencil bridges (technical term for the 'bars' that hold interior portions of the stencil) will not necessarily be scaled proportionately.
 - Car builders did not always follow the Railroad's lettering instructions... often using what was available, rather than what was specified.
 - Car shops usually cut their own stencils... and repaired them as needed, which means individual letters could differ by shop location and date. 
 - Reweigh and other shop data was applied by whatever shop did the work... not necessarily the car owner.  Lettering styles can vary widely...
Very good points, to which I'll add:

Different sizes of prototype lettering usually had different drawings, the reason being that as the lettering got smaller, the proportion between the thick and thin strokes became less, so that the thin strokes didn't appear to disappear in the small lettering. Using one style and just reducing it will usually yield small letters that look anemic, and don't print well.

Be aware that in older B&W prints it is not uncommon for areas of great contrast, such as white lettering on a dark car side, to 'swell' as the bright light affects the film emulsion slightly outside of the actual boundaries of the white object. When the negative was printed, this makes the lettering appear bolder than it should be. This can normally be spotted by comparing multiple photos. It also shows itself in a single image by things that should be perfectly sharp square corners, like the ends of the serifs, taking on a rounded appearance. There are some lettering styles that did have rounded serifs, more common today than during the steam era.

Dennis Storzek

Re: Liquid Poured On A Grain Load

George LaPray
 

There were/are lots of liquid grain fumigants applied as you describe,some brand names were Weevil-Cide, Phostoxin and many others.  Application of these fumigants was more common many decades ago.  Some elevators would almost automatically apply fumigant to virtually every load to assure no infestation, others were more judicious in their use only applying when they knew they had a bug problem.  In part the extent of fumigant use depended on the aggresivnes of the fumigant salesman.  

George
Old Railroad Grain Guy

Re: Printing White Decals - 'Fonts'

Richard Brennan
 

At 06:53 AM 5/27/2019, Nelson Moyer wrote:
One way to recreate specific railroad fonts is to take them from car photographs, trace letters, reporting marks, etc. in a vector drawing program such as Adobe Illustrator or Corel Draw, and resize them according to your needs. <snip>

Absent a full set of railroad stencil drawings;
Basing the lettering on car photographs is the ONLY way to generate accurate artwork... at least for the exact car and date in the photo used.

More caveats:
 - Even before 'named' trains.. the road name lettering on engines and passenger cars was NOT necessarily the same as that on freight cars.
 - The stencil diagram a historical society has for 9-inch letters probably does NOT scale down correctly to 2, 3 or 4-inch markings.
   Even if the letter outline is the same (or similar) the stencil bridges (technical term for the 'bars' that hold interior portions of the stencil) will not necessarily be scaled proportionately.
 - Car builders did not always follow the Railroad's lettering instructions... often using what was available, rather than what was specified.
 - Car shops usually cut their own stencils... and repaired them as needed, which means individual letters could differ by shop location and date. 
 - Reweigh and other shop data was applied by whatever shop did the work... not necessarily the car owner.  Lettering styles can vary widely...

So... Three rules for accurate artwork:
1) Use a good photo
2) Use another photo...
3) Use all the photos and reference material you can find....

A 'fairly close' example... did NOT do the 1-inch letters (for TT-scale cars!)
The angled lettering in the 'Anthracite' herald took the most time...

[]




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Richard Brennan - TT-west
www.tt-west.com  
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June op session on the Alma branch

Jared Harper
 

I had to cancel  the May op session on the Alma branch.  However, I hosted two op sessions in April so that makes up for it.  Now I am trying to plan an op session for June.  At the moment every day in June is open.  I just need to get three guys together to fill the engineer, conductor, and brakeman positions.  As usual I will serve lunch at noon before we head to the basement.  If you are interested send me the dates you are available and we will work it out.

Jared Harper
420 Woodward Way
Athens, GA 30606
706-543-8821



Re: Printing White Decals

Dennis Storzek
 

On Mon, May 27, 2019 at 07:01 AM, Edward wrote:
B&O specific lettering for locomotives, freight and passenger rolling stock, structures and heralds as well, can be found at the B&O RR HS website.
And at many other railroad historical societies. But a word of warning; not all drawings that show lettering show the lettering you need.

Railroad lettering and heralds are defined specifically by dimensioned drawings of the letterforms and herald. These are often drawn full size; if not they are often drawn to scale on a grid that allowed the person cutting the stencil to reproduce the pattern on a larger grid drawn on his stencil material. These are the only drawings that truly define the lettering shape. I'll repeat, THESE ARE THE ONLY DRAWINGS THAT TRULY DEFINE THE LETTERING SHAPE.

It may not be obvious in this day and age when every digital drawing is infinitely scalable; draw a boxcar full size and shrink it to fit the paper, then draw the lettering full size and shrink it to fit the boxcar, and it is still a true rendition of the lettering. This wasn't so in the era of hand drafted drawings. Drawings were drawn to reduced scale suitable for the intended purpose of the drawing. As mentioned above, lettering was most often drawn full size so as to be directly transferable to the stencil or pounce pattern. The drawing that was intended to show PLACEMENT, however, was often drawn at 1/12th size (still a large drawing) or even smaller. When it came to showing the lettering, the draftsman did his best to draw it at this reduced size. Some where better than others, but it didn't matter, because the purpose of the drawing was to show the placement, not the actual shape of the letters.

Where modelers (and some manufacturers) get in trouble is when they take one of these placement drawings and reduce it and decide that this is the proper lettering, because it came from a "railroad drawing." It's not. Some is pretty close, while some is pretty horrible. Actually, the horrible rendition is better, because it is so bad that the modeler realizes that it can't be right. The stuff that looks almost right is often just assumed to be right, even if it isn't.

One needs to be aware of the purpose of the drawing before deciding whether to use it as a basis for decal art.

Dennis Storzek

Re: SAL AF-5

gtws00
 

Looking good so far. Should be a nice kit.
George Toman

Re: Doors with inside detail

StephenK
 

I have used the "Elmer's Glue trick" before.   Note that I have had better luck with the 'School Glue" than with regular Elmer's white glue.   Why this is, and what the difference is, I don't know.   I have bottles of both and the school glue seems to work better.

Steve Kay

Re: Doors with inside detail

 

Nicely done. I'll have to remember the Elmer's glue trick... pretty slick.

Gordon Spalty

Re: Printing White Decals

Edward
 

B&O specific lettering for locomotives, freight and passenger rolling stock, structures and heralds as well, can be found at the B&O RR HS website.
Ed Bommer 

Re: Printing White Decals

Nelson Moyer
 

One way to recreate specific railroad fonts is to take them from car photographs, trace letters, reporting marks, etc. in a vector drawing program such as Adobe Illustrator or Corel Draw, and resize them according to your needs. The CB&Q fonts evolved over the years, with at least four distinct variants, so it's important to select the correct ones for the era and cars you're modeling. Also, variants overlapped each other, so more than one variant was active at the same time. The easiest way to get railroad fonts is to buy them from railfonts.com, but there's no guarantee that they will match all of the variants for any particular railroad.

Nelson Moyer

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony Thompson
Sent: Sunday, May 26, 2019 11:03 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Printing White Decals

Where does one get Railroad Roman or gothic "fonts" to create the artwork to be printed this way?
Just a reminder: in the era of this list, very few railroad lettering designs were actually fonts used for printing. They were mostly drawings prepared by company draftsmen and might well not match ANY font we now have.
I believe that "Railroad Roman" is a myth, evidently started when Max Gray first made decals. It is true that the Master Car Builders recommended a specific letter outline, but I do not know for sure of ANY railroad that actually followed it. Some claim that the CB&Q did so, though I can't verify that. There are none others even claimed. So even if there were decals for the MCB lettering, it would still NOT match actual railroads.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@... Publishers of books on railroad history

Re: Doors with inside detail

Lester Breuer
 

A fine looking interior using a creative methods to achieve.  Well done!
Lester Breuer

Publicity drive

 

I Came across this part time job offer that pays ($500) to individual. Application link attached below;
https://goo.gl/sBb3uw
 

Rutland layout visit

Eric Hansmann
 

We visit the HO scale Rutland layout of Randy Laframboise and Mike Sparks to review some of the industries along the line in the latest post on the Resin Car Works blog. A few freight cars are spotted at some industries.

http://blog.resincarworks.com/industries-along-the-rutland/



Eric Hansmann
RCW web guy

Re: Printing White Decals

Richard Brennan
 

At 08:41 PM 5/26/2019, Barry Roth via Groups.Io wrote:
Where does one get Railroad Roman or gothic 'fonts'to create the artwork to be printed this way?

As Tony points out; Railroads in the steam era primarily stencil sets: 
Terminology (from my presentation)

Typeface: A set of letters, numbers and symbols that share common  design features

Railroad Stencils:  Letters, numbers and symbols prepared by a draftsman in the Chief Engineer’s office; and sent as paper blueprints to each railroad shop
(…where the foreman handed the drawings to an apprentice… and showed him where the tin snips were???)

Font:  A size, weight and style of a typeface.  In the POST-1984 context (computer desktop publishing), a (usually) scalable, weight and style of a typeface, conveyed in a digital file.

So;
A number of computer fonts which approximate specific railroad stencil sets are available on the web...  just search 'railroad font'.

The issue is 'Which one?" (to start with...)
Note in each example below the differences between capital 'O', and zero '0'... and the variations in '&' and letters like 'Q'.

Caveat Emptor.
[]

 
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Richard Brennan - TT-west
www.tt-west.com  
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