Date   

June op session on the Alma branch

Jared Harper
 

I had to cancel  the May op session on the Alma branch.  However, I hosted two op sessions in April so that makes up for it.  Now I am trying to plan an op session for June.  At the moment every day in June is open.  I just need to get three guys together to fill the engineer, conductor, and brakeman positions.  As usual I will serve lunch at noon before we head to the basement.  If you are interested send me the dates you are available and we will work it out.

Jared Harper
420 Woodward Way
Athens, GA 30606
706-543-8821




Re: Printing White Decals

Dennis Storzek
 

On Mon, May 27, 2019 at 07:01 AM, Edward wrote:
B&O specific lettering for locomotives, freight and passenger rolling stock, structures and heralds as well, can be found at the B&O RR HS website.
And at many other railroad historical societies. But a word of warning; not all drawings that show lettering show the lettering you need.

Railroad lettering and heralds are defined specifically by dimensioned drawings of the letterforms and herald. These are often drawn full size; if not they are often drawn to scale on a grid that allowed the person cutting the stencil to reproduce the pattern on a larger grid drawn on his stencil material. These are the only drawings that truly define the lettering shape. I'll repeat, THESE ARE THE ONLY DRAWINGS THAT TRULY DEFINE THE LETTERING SHAPE.

It may not be obvious in this day and age when every digital drawing is infinitely scalable; draw a boxcar full size and shrink it to fit the paper, then draw the lettering full size and shrink it to fit the boxcar, and it is still a true rendition of the lettering. This wasn't so in the era of hand drafted drawings. Drawings were drawn to reduced scale suitable for the intended purpose of the drawing. As mentioned above, lettering was most often drawn full size so as to be directly transferable to the stencil or pounce pattern. The drawing that was intended to show PLACEMENT, however, was often drawn at 1/12th size (still a large drawing) or even smaller. When it came to showing the lettering, the draftsman did his best to draw it at this reduced size. Some where better than others, but it didn't matter, because the purpose of the drawing was to show the placement, not the actual shape of the letters.

Where modelers (and some manufacturers) get in trouble is when they take one of these placement drawings and reduce it and decide that this is the proper lettering, because it came from a "railroad drawing." It's not. Some is pretty close, while some is pretty horrible. Actually, the horrible rendition is better, because it is so bad that the modeler realizes that it can't be right. The stuff that looks almost right is often just assumed to be right, even if it isn't.

One needs to be aware of the purpose of the drawing before deciding whether to use it as a basis for decal art.

Dennis Storzek


Re: SAL AF-5

gtws00
 

Looking good so far. Should be a nice kit.
George Toman


Re: Doors with inside detail

StephenK
 

I have used the "Elmer's Glue trick" before.   Note that I have had better luck with the 'School Glue" than with regular Elmer's white glue.   Why this is, and what the difference is, I don't know.   I have bottles of both and the school glue seems to work better.

Steve Kay


Re: Doors with inside detail

 

Nicely done. I'll have to remember the Elmer's glue trick... pretty slick.

Gordon Spalty


Re: Printing White Decals

Edward
 

B&O specific lettering for locomotives, freight and passenger rolling stock, structures and heralds as well, can be found at the B&O RR HS website.
Ed Bommer 


Re: Printing White Decals

Nelson Moyer
 

One way to recreate specific railroad fonts is to take them from car photographs, trace letters, reporting marks, etc. in a vector drawing program such as Adobe Illustrator or Corel Draw, and resize them according to your needs. The CB&Q fonts evolved over the years, with at least four distinct variants, so it's important to select the correct ones for the era and cars you're modeling. Also, variants overlapped each other, so more than one variant was active at the same time. The easiest way to get railroad fonts is to buy them from railfonts.com, but there's no guarantee that they will match all of the variants for any particular railroad.

Nelson Moyer

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony Thompson
Sent: Sunday, May 26, 2019 11:03 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Printing White Decals

Where does one get Railroad Roman or gothic "fonts" to create the artwork to be printed this way?
Just a reminder: in the era of this list, very few railroad lettering designs were actually fonts used for printing. They were mostly drawings prepared by company draftsmen and might well not match ANY font we now have.
I believe that "Railroad Roman" is a myth, evidently started when Max Gray first made decals. It is true that the Master Car Builders recommended a specific letter outline, but I do not know for sure of ANY railroad that actually followed it. Some claim that the CB&Q did so, though I can't verify that. There are none others even claimed. So even if there were decals for the MCB lettering, it would still NOT match actual railroads.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@... Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Doors with inside detail

Lester Breuer
 

A fine looking interior using a creative methods to achieve.  Well done!
Lester Breuer


Publicity drive

 

I Came across this part time job offer that pays ($500) to individual. Application link attached below;
https://goo.gl/sBb3uw
 


Rutland layout visit

Eric Hansmann
 

We visit the HO scale Rutland layout of Randy Laframboise and Mike Sparks to review some of the industries along the line in the latest post on the Resin Car Works blog. A few freight cars are spotted at some industries.

http://blog.resincarworks.com/industries-along-the-rutland/



Eric Hansmann
RCW web guy


Re: Printing White Decals

Richard Brennan
 

At 08:41 PM 5/26/2019, Barry Roth via Groups.Io wrote:
Where does one get Railroad Roman or gothic 'fonts'to create the artwork to be printed this way?

As Tony points out; Railroads in the steam era primarily stencil sets: 
Terminology (from my presentation)

Typeface: A set of letters, numbers and symbols that share common  design features

Railroad Stencils:  Letters, numbers and symbols prepared by a draftsman in the Chief Engineer’s office; and sent as paper blueprints to each railroad shop
(…where the foreman handed the drawings to an apprentice… and showed him where the tin snips were???)

Font:  A size, weight and style of a typeface.  In the POST-1984 context (computer desktop publishing), a (usually) scalable, weight and style of a typeface, conveyed in a digital file.

So;
A number of computer fonts which approximate specific railroad stencil sets are available on the web...  just search 'railroad font'.

The issue is 'Which one?" (to start with...)
Note in each example below the differences between capital 'O', and zero '0'... and the variations in '&' and letters like 'Q'.

Caveat Emptor.


 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard Brennan - TT-west
www.tt-west.com  
----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Re: Printing White Decals

Steve and Barb Hile
 

Even without a true graphics program, the letter spacing can managed by inserting spaces of very small type sizes between the letters, as needed.  I have done this successfully in MS Word, for example.
 
Steve Hile



From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dennis Storzek
Sent: Sunday, May 26, 2019 11:40 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Printing White Decals

On Sun, May 26, 2019 at 08:41 PM, Barry Roth wrote:
Where does one get Railroad Roman or gothic “fonts” to create the artwork to be printed this way?
A good place to start is railfonts.com  While not perfect, and many people argue they are not perfect, they are darned good. The biggest complaint would be that the designer went beyond what the railroad designed to create complete alphabets that can be used to typeset more than just the railroad name. Also, the built in auto kerning may not result in the same letter spacing in the roadname that the railroad actually used on its equipment, which can be determined from photos and is easy enough to correct in a graphics program.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Printing White Decals

Dennis Storzek
 

On Sun, May 26, 2019 at 08:41 PM, Barry Roth wrote:
Where does one get Railroad Roman or gothic “fonts” to create the artwork to be printed this way?
A good place to start is railfonts.com  While not perfect, and many people argue they are not perfect, they are darned good. The biggest complaint would be that the designer went beyond what the railroad designed to create complete alphabets that can be used to typeset more than just the railroad name. Also, the built in auto kerning may not result in the same letter spacing in the roadname that the railroad actually used on its equipment, which can be determined from photos and is easy enough to correct in a graphics program.

Dennis Storzek


SAL AF-5

Chad Boas
 

I'll have a new kit or two for the Collinsville meet.
Fenton and I have worked together and come up with ends, doors and lower side sills to make the SAL AF-5.
I used a Branchline AAR kit. Here it is still needing some work.
Chad Boas


Re: Printing White Decals

Tony Thompson
 

Where does one get Railroad Roman or gothic “fonts” to create the artwork to be printed this way?
Just a reminder: in the era of this list, very few railroad lettering designs were actually fonts used for printing. They were mostly drawings prepared by company draftsmen and might well not match ANY font we now have.
I believe that "Railroad Roman" is a myth, evidently started when Max Gray first made decals. It is true that the Master Car Builders recommended a specific letter outline, but I do not know for sure of ANY railroad that actually followed it. Some claim that the CB&Q did so, though I can't verify that. There are none others even claimed. So even if there were decals for the MCB lettering, it would still NOT match actual railroads.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Printing White Decals

Barry Roth
 

Where does one get Railroad Roman or gothic “fonts” to create the artwork to be printed this way?

Barry Roth

On May 26, 2019, at 7:30 PM, Richard Brennan <@RBrennan> wrote:

At 05:52 PM 5/26/2019, Jeff wrote:
So having acquired the toner, is it just a case of printing your text/design on decal paper, cutting it out and doing the wet-slide thing?
The Ghostwhite cartridge physically replaces the 'K' (blacK) toner cartridge in compatible CMYK color laser printers, including many HP and some others.

Set-up decal artwork for 'true black' (CMYK = 0-0-0-100)... not 'rich black' (CMYK = 100-100-100-100) and your black artwork will print as white. I print on TangoPapa decal paper.

A presentation on artwork and printing white decals from the 2018 PCR NMRA convention should be available shortly (and belatedly) at: http://www.pcrnmra.org/pcr/clinics/clinics.shtml
and discusses artwork preparation and a brief overview of the three most-available white decal digital printing options; ALPS, Ghostwhite, and UV-LED.

An example of use on an early P&R HKa hopper is at: https://groups.io/g/EarlyRail/message/46956
with an embedded link to an MRH blog at: https://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/34605 ...
The decal discussion is in the more recent (5/21/2019) posts.



----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard Brennan - TT-west
www.tt-west.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------------



Re: Printing White Decals

Richard Brennan
 

At 05:52 PM 5/26/2019, Jeff wrote:
So having acquired the toner, is it just a case of printing your text/design on decal paper, cutting it out and doing the wet-slide thing?
The Ghostwhite cartridge physically replaces the 'K' (blacK) toner cartridge in compatible CMYK color laser printers, including many HP and some others.

Set-up decal artwork for 'true black' (CMYK = 0-0-0-100)... not 'rich black' (CMYK = 100-100-100-100) and your black artwork will print as white. I print on TangoPapa decal paper.

A presentation on artwork and printing white decals from the 2018 PCR NMRA convention should be available shortly (and belatedly) at: http://www.pcrnmra.org/pcr/clinics/clinics.shtml
and discusses artwork preparation and a brief overview of the three most-available white decal digital printing options; ALPS, Ghostwhite, and UV-LED.

An example of use on an early P&R HKa hopper is at: https://groups.io/g/EarlyRail/message/46956
with an embedded link to an MRH blog at: https://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/34605 ...
The decal discussion is in the more recent (5/21/2019) posts.



----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard Brennan - TT-west
www.tt-west.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Re: Super Clean Degreaser to remove lettering

Paul Woods <paul@...>
 

Speaking as someone who has handled sodium hydroxide in large quantities, I need to stress the part of Nelson's message regarding eye protection - it is crucial, because the stuff is quite nasty with respect to damaging vision.  Always wear eye protection.

Sodium hydroxide has a high reactivity with the eyes, causing permanent damage (unlike some kinds of chemical burns that will heal), so fGs don't get it in your eyes!  And if you do, run like aitch-E-double-toothpicks for the bathroom and rinse it out thoroughly.  For being a low concentration, the effects would not be immediately obvious - enclosed environment probably okay but I would work with a small fan nearby to prevent local build-up of vapor, just in case.  I always do that if dealing with any fumes, smoke from soldering, painting etc., regardless of how safe it may seem.

Would you believe, I have just found a safety guideline that advises in the event of contact with the eyes to flush the affected eye with running lukewarm water for 60 minutes - this is for concentrated sodium hydroxide, not the degreaser , but it should serve to demonstrate how nasty the stuff is.

Regards
Paul Woods

NYCSHS #7172


Re: Printing White Decals

Nelson Moyer
 

InkJet ink is water soluble, so you have to seal the decals after printing. I’ve used Krylon Krystal Clear, but that makes them stiff and it takes several application of Micro Sol to get them to settle down over rivets. Some use Micro Liquid decal Film. As long as you don’t cut too close to the ink, the decals handle like regular decals. Laser printed decals don’t require sealing, but they will bleed a little if exposed to water too long. I seal them the same way I seal ink jet decals.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jeff
Sent: Sunday, May 26, 2019 7:53 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Printing White Decals

 

So having acquired the toner, is it just a case of printing your text/design on decal paper, cutting it out and doing the wet-slide thing? 

 

I tried inkjet decals once, and there was a fixative... and let's just say it was a useless mess. 

Jeff Shultz

 

On Sun, May 26, 2019, 14:57 Garth Groff <sarahsan@...> wrote:

Friends,

If you haven't been there, check the Ghost White web site at https://www.ghost-white-toner.com/ghost-white-toner-transfer-for-everyone/ . It appears that their cartridges fit various HP, Oki and Samsung laser printers. Actually, if you have the right printer already, the cost may not be prohibitive, with cartridges for some printers at around $120. For professional machines the cost can be over $1,000. There is a search feature which matches their products to various printers.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 5/26/19 1:37 PM, A&Y Dave in MD wrote:

This is my hobby. I couldn’t make enough at decals to compete with my day job. I have done special runs for friends at cost and supported the Carolina RPM with the Southern vent boxcar, but have no interest in a second career. I’ve seen what that can do to people.

 

 I bought a $200 printer and a $200 (with shipping from Germany) cartridge and i’m set for life.  I have printed about 30 8x11 sheets of decals so far and i haven’t gone below 95% full on cartridge. Some cannot afford $400 for all the custom white decals you’ll need, but for about a DCC sound loco cost, i felt it was worth the advantage to add a second number to a commercial car like the Kadee boxcar or create accurate 1934 era data and lettering.  I was looking to replace my ALPS and those are not made or supported commercially any more. The Ghost White AND printer was less than my investment in track/switches or DCC system or a single locomotive. Seems worth it to have my fleet of steam era cars be equally accurate.

 

Btw there is a US source for Ghost White now, so shipping will be less. 

 

David Bott, modeling the A&Y in '34

 


Re: Printing White Decals

Jeff
 

So having acquired the toner, is it just a case of printing your text/design on decal paper, cutting it out and doing the wet-slide thing? 

I tried inkjet decals once, and there was a fixative... and let's just say it was a useless mess. 

Jeff Shultz


On Sun, May 26, 2019, 14:57 Garth Groff <sarahsan@...> wrote:
Friends,

If you haven't been there, check the Ghost White web site at https://www.ghost-white-toner.com/ghost-white-toner-transfer-for-everyone/ . It appears that their cartridges fit various HP, Oki and Samsung laser printers. Actually, if you have the right printer already, the cost may not be prohibitive, with cartridges for some printers at around $120. For professional machines the cost can be over $1,000. There is a search feature which matches their products to various printers.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 5/26/19 1:37 PM, A&Y Dave in MD wrote:
This is my hobby. I couldn’t make enough at decals to compete with my day job. I have done special runs for friends at cost and supported the Carolina RPM with the Southern vent boxcar, but have no interest in a second career. I’ve seen what that can do to people.

 I bought a $200 printer and a $200 (with shipping from Germany) cartridge and i’m set for life.  I have printed about 30 8x11 sheets of decals so far and i haven’t gone below 95% full on cartridge. Some cannot afford $400 for all the custom white decals you’ll need, but for about a DCC sound loco cost, i felt it was worth the advantage to add a second number to a commercial car like the Kadee boxcar or create accurate 1934 era data and lettering.  I was looking to replace my ALPS and those are not made or supported commercially any more. The Ghost White AND printer was less than my investment in track/switches or DCC system or a single locomotive. Seems worth it to have my fleet of steam era cars be equally accurate.

Btw there is a US source for Ghost White now, so shipping will be less. 

David Bott, modeling the A&Y in '34