Date   

Re: Great Freight Car Combinations

Steve Wolcott
 

The sill step on the Rio Grande boxcar is also bent in.
Steve Wolcott


Re: Brake Housings

Nelson Moyer
 

Thanks for the clarification and the tutorial from Gene.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dan Smith
Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2019 6:34 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Brake Housings

 

Hello Pierre, Nelson,

The parts Nelson cites are separate wheel housing sets done by DA. The Equipco is a 3750 gear, the Miner is a D3290 gear and the Ureco is a fantasy gear.

The Grandt Line ? DA set contains 4 gears, this set was done for a project that never fully materialized.

Gene Green went over these some time back so I will copy his post:

 


Looking for some C of G assistance here.

Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

Hi folks,

     I'm trying to finish the brake system on a C of G ventilated boxcar from the C of G His. group and have
run into a problem. No brake diagram is included in the kit, only a photo of what is stated to be an assembled
pilot model upside down. That's all ell and good except for the fact that the mounting lugs on the floor casting
for mine are in the reverse position from those on the pilot model. It is also stated that there are some differences
between some of the castings in a 1st and 2nd run of these resin models, which ay have something to do with
the problem. Can anyone provide a diagram of the actual brake system for these "vents'? One showing the
train line pipe as well would help since there does not appear to be one on the pilot model. Other than this brake
issue the ony thing I'll change will be to build up a wood running board and ditch the one from the kit. These
issues should not discourage anyone from building one of these cars as the kit does yield a nice model once
completed.

Thanks for any assistance offered, Don Valentine


Re: Great Freight Car Combinations

Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

   I stumbled onto that that full Erie car photo too, Schuyler, while looking over that beautiful C of G steam power and agree
that all three of the stirrup steps seen are angled inward.

   The heater is of the Elesco family and is usually refered to as a "coil" instead of the more familiar "bundle" as the tubular
design is called. If you ever saw all of the Steamtwn ex-CPR G-5 class 4-6-2's you may have photographed #1293 with the
same style of "coil" unit thought they came with slightly different shapes as well rather than only different sizes like the "coil"
units.

God to meet you at the NEPRO meet, Don Valentine


Re: Great Freight Car Combinations

gary laakso
 

A wonderful picture, thank you for sharing and it features chalk marks at the end of the flat car.

 

Gary Laakso

Northwest of Mike Brock

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tom Madden via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, June 9, 2019 4:21 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Great Freight Car Combinations

 

On Sun, Jun 9, 2019 at 04:07 PM, Jack Mullen wrote:

On Sat, Jun 8, 2019 at 08:00 PM, Schuyler Larrabee wrote:

It’s pretty clear that the steps ARE bent inwards from the usual plane of the car side.

https://donstrack.smugmug.com/UtahRails/Emil-Albrecht-Photos/1944-Columbus-Georgia/i-xxqfnfK/A

Indeed, and if you look around in the photo Schuyler linked, you'll see steps on the Rio Grande and WLE boxcars are also bent inward. Must be operating on a club layout. ("Huh, THAT isn't very sturdy! I build MY cars to OPERATE.")

Seriously, once to start looking, you'll see these a lot. The bend is by design, not damage (though that happens too). It's a consequence of the inward taper of the clearance envelope below the level of the side sill.  When the inside width of house cars expanded to 9'2", width over the side sills became about 9'10".  But the bottom of the step is at a height of 2' or a couple inches less ATR , where the max width has reduced to about 9'8".  

Attached is a photo showing two views of an undamaged sill step on D&RGW Pressed Steel boxcar 69332 showing the designed-in bend. It's the step on the right. Pierre offers this step, Yarmouth part #YMW-216.

Tom Madden


Occuremce of D&RGW boxes

David Soderblom
 

This follows on from the discussion of sill steps being bent inwards.

I couldn’t help noticing the D&RGW box. By rights it should have been a common occurrence, but it wasn’t. You just don't see them that often in these old photos. Compare to Northern Pacific, which, as so many have noted, are seen in nearly every SteamEra train. My own guess, without looking at the fleet numbers: NP boxes went everywhere because they delivered northwest lumber to a growing nation. D&RGW originating traffic was much more limited.

I’d love to hear more.



David Soderblom
Baltimore MD USA
drs@stsci.edu


Re: Brake Housings

 

Hello Nelson,

The Grandt Line tool for making this part wore out a long time ago.

Both Grandt line and DA sets show up at swap meets regularly, I always snap up what I can.

Dan Smith


Re: Brake Housings

 

Hello Pierre, Nelson,

The parts Nelson cites are separate wheel housing sets done by DA. The Equipco is a 3750 gear, the Miner is a D3290 gear and the Ureco is a fantasy gear.

The Grandt Line ? DA set contains 4 gears, this set was done for a project that never fully materialized.

Gene Green went over these some time back so I will copy his post:

Gene Green
08/29/16  

My information differs somewhat from that which was copied from their website.
Since all hand brake installations on new cars are grandfathered, any given hand brake can continue in use long after actual production has stopped.
 
Ajax 5 is actually model no. 14665 with short release lever introduced Nov 1953.
Ajax 5-1 is actually model no. 14665-1 with long release lever introduced abut 1970.
Ajax 5 is also model no. 14665-B with no release lever introduced Aug 1961.
Ajax 7 & 7-1, models 15018 & 15018-1 respectively, short & long release levers respectively were introduced in 1974.  These are intermediate power hand brakes and, in their applied position would have a loop of chain dangling from left of center as well as the chain to the vertical hand brake rod.
Save for the presence & type or absence of release lever the 5 hand brakes above had very, very similar housings.
 
The Champion/Champion Orme/Champion Peacock 1148 was introduced in 1937 and production stopped in 1953.
 
I have no information indicating there was ever an Equipco hand brake model 2550.
 
Equipco 3750/3750-A/3750-B/3750-C/3750-D were introduced in Oct 50, Dec 50, Oct 51, Apr 54 and May 57, each predecessor being obsolete and no longer produced upon the introduction of its successor.  This hand brake had no release lever and was in a malleable (cast) housing.  There was a model 3750-E which may have existed on paper only.  In 1974 Equipco 3750-F was introduced with a forged (stamped) housing virtually identical to the Equipco 4000.  Equipco 3750-F lasted to 1999.  Equipco 3750-FS was sold only to the N&W and L&N and, for our purposes, was identical to 3750-F and all 4000 models.
 
Ellcon-National model 1148-J was essentially the Champion mechanism in a forged E-N housing and did not resemble the Champion 1148 at all.  It looked like the Peacock 1600, AAR 1966, body.
 
The Klasing 1150 was introduced in Aug 1961 and last sold in 1977, exactly the information on the website to which reference was made.
 
Klasing 1450, 1500, 1500-1, 1700 & 1700-1 was a family of hand brakes in similar housings.  The 1450 was never sold but a model 1450 (A) was on the market from 1972 to 1993.  It had no release lever.  Models 1500 & 1500-1 were introduced in 1969 and went through a number of internal changes indicated only by suffix letters, something with which we need not be concerned.  The "-1" indicates a long release lever.  The others had a short release lever.  The 1500 was still available in 1999, the 1500-1 to 1993.  Models 1700 & 1700-1 were introduced in 1993 and lasted until Klasing was sold to New York Air Brake in this century.
 
The Miner D-3290, D-3290-X & D-3290-XL  were introduced in 1937, May 43 & 1951.  Miner model 18486-B1, which had essentially the same appearance as its predecessors, was introduced in 1970.  Each model was obsolete when its successor was introduced and the 18486-B1 was obsolete in 1979.
 
Miner models 6600 & 6600-L were introduced in 1967 and obsolete in 1981.  Guess which one had the long release lever.  The other one had a short release lever.
 
Universal 2250 from 1957 to 1962.
Universal 7400 (short release lever) and 7400-3 (long) were introduced in 1963 & 1967 respectively.  They apparently lasted in production into this century.
 
Gene Green

Hope this helps,
Dan Smith


Re: Brake Housings

Nelson Moyer
 

Did DA or GL offer the four housing sprue separately, are they still available, and what housings are on the sprue? I use mostly Kadee housings and wheels for the ones they make, but they don’t do URECO or Klasing, and I’m always looking for alternative sources. I  bought the RCW Klasing set, but I haven’t found another source for URECO besides DA.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Pierre Oliver
Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2019 5:50 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Brake Housings

 

It's the same AB sprue that was in the GS gon kits

Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com

On 6/09/19 6:48 p.m., Nelson Moyer wrote:

Pierre, I don’t think DA makes a sprue with four brake housings on a single sprue. Maybe the sprue you have is Moloco? I attached a picture of the Moloco brake housings.

 

Nelson Moyer


Re: Great Freight Car Combinations

Tom Madden
 

On Sun, Jun 9, 2019 at 04:07 PM, Jack Mullen wrote:
On Sat, Jun 8, 2019 at 08:00 PM, Schuyler Larrabee wrote:

It’s pretty clear that the steps ARE bent inwards from the usual plane of the car side.

https://donstrack.smugmug.com/UtahRails/Emil-Albrecht-Photos/1944-Columbus-Georgia/i-xxqfnfK/A

Indeed, and if you look around in the photo Schuyler linked, you'll see steps on the Rio Grande and WLE boxcars are also bent inward. Must be operating on a club layout. ("Huh, THAT isn't very sturdy! I build MY cars to OPERATE.")

Seriously, once to start looking, you'll see these a lot. The bend is by design, not damage (though that happens too). It's a consequence of the inward taper of the clearance envelope below the level of the side sill.  When the inside width of house cars expanded to 9'2", width over the side sills became about 9'10".  But the bottom of the step is at a height of 2' or a couple inches less ATR , where the max width has reduced to about 9'8".  
Attached is a photo showing two views of an undamaged sill step on D&RGW Pressed Steel boxcar 69332 showing the designed-in bend. It's the step on the right. Pierre offers this step, Yarmouth part #YMW-216.

Tom Madden


Re: Best way to cut Plano metal roof walks

Chuck Cover
 

To the group, thanks for all the tips on how to cut the Plano metal roof walks. 

 

Chuck Cover

Santa Fe, NM


Re: Brake Housings

Bill Welch
 

The AB brake set Pierre refers to was tooled by Grandt Line and packaged by both GL and DA.

Bill Welch


Re: Brake Housings

Pierre Oliver
 

It's the same AB sprue that was in the GS gon kits

Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com
On 6/09/19 6:48 p.m., Nelson Moyer wrote:

Pierre, I don’t think DA makes a sprue with four brake housings on a single sprue. Maybe the sprue you have is Moloco? I attached a picture of the Moloco brake housings.

 

Nelson Moyer


Brake Housings

Nelson Moyer
 

Pierre, I don’t think DA makes a sprue with four brake housings on a single sprue. Maybe the sprue you have is Moloco? I attached a picture of the Moloco brake housings.

 

Nelson Moyer


Re: DA AB brake detail sprue

Nelson Moyer
 

I have DA 6403 URECO, DA 6402 Miner, and DA 6401 Equipco. You're probably looking at those in addition to Ajax.

Nelson Moyer

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Pierre Oliver
Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2019 5:06 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] DA AB brake detail sprue

Hello all.
I'm looking at a AB brake sprue from DA.
On it are 4 handbrake housings on the sprue, The Ajax is obvious, but I'm having trouble identifying the 3.
Help please

--
Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com


Re: Great Freight Car Combinations

Jack Mullen
 

On Sat, Jun 8, 2019 at 08:00 PM, Schuyler Larrabee wrote:

It’s pretty clear that the steps ARE bent inwards from the usual plane of the car side.

https://donstrack.smugmug.com/UtahRails/Emil-Albrecht-Photos/1944-Columbus-Georgia/i-xxqfnfK/A

Indeed, and if you look around in the photo Schuyler linked, you'll see steps on the Rio Grande and WLE boxcars are also bent inward. Must be operating on a club layout. ("Huh, THAT isn't very sturdy! I build MY cars to OPERATE.")

Seriously, once to start looking, you'll see these a lot. The bend is by design, not damage (though that happens too). It's a consequence of the inward taper of the clearance envelope below the level of the side sill.  When the inside width of house cars expanded to 9'2", width over the side sills became about 9'10".  But the bottom of the step is at a height of 2' or a couple inches less ATR , where the max width has reduced to about 9'8".  

Jack Mullen


DA AB brake detail sprue

Pierre Oliver
 

Hello all.
I'm looking at a AB brake sprue from DA.
On it are 4 handbrake housings on the sprue, The Ajax is obvious, but I'm having trouble identifying the 3.
Help please

--
Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com


Re: Pullman Library Freight Car Drawings

Bob Webber
 

David, the file names (the left column) is in 3 parts - the "SS-" indicates Standard Steel.   The 45602 indicates the Standard Steel Drawing Number.  The .tif is the file type we scan & store the files as.  Hence the SS-45602.tif is the full file name for the scan of that drawing.  Which is itself  "traced from C.C.C.R. Co.  Print 2704-D" - it shows the end of the specific type along with posts that support it behind and the manner in which the end is fastened to the roof (or vice-versa).  It is a 35" x 19" original on linen. 

Scanned this May - would likely would never be scanned  (in an order-driven process).  There are all sorts of interesting ends, roofs, trucks and such - and hundreds of small parts - that wouldn't normally have been scanned. The main reason I have been scanning these is precisely that they wouldn't normally be ordered - and I wanted to present a nice "cross section" of drawing types; as well as railroad orders. 

The plan is to obtain a collections management system, use the information we have been entering as a feed to it and present a searchable object on the web. 

Towards that end too, we've been creating a "database (sic)" of assets (manuals, photos, negatives, documents, film, indexes, etc.) for the same purpose.  Who knows we have hundreds of Trailmobile negatives?  Dating to *very* early in the company (1900s)?  Or EMD marine and maritime (portable) prime mover manuals?  Or WW I trench equipment drawings?  Or Images of the test center in Hammond for freight equipment; loading of tanks & equipment built in the plants (as well as testing those vehicles); bombs & shells; ship drawings; Plant drawings and photos; freight car scheme proposals; Vendor drawings,  etc. - along with the "normal" freight & passenger car equipment drawings.

And...in terms of freight cars - 95% of drawings, Images & data *IS* Steam era. 


At 08:27 PM 6/8/2019, David via Groups.Io wrote:
This one could be interesting:
SS-45602.tif?? Vulcan Corrugated Steel End - 1921 - 200 BAR Box Cars

David Thompson

Bob Webber


Carrying Automobiles In Boxcars

Bob Chaparro
 

Many vintage (and more modern) photos from the Industrial History Blog:

http://industrialscenery.blogspot.com/2016/03/carrying-automobiles-in-boxcars.html

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


New Measuring Tool

Bill Welch
 

As I noted recently Ryan Mendell's "Machinist Hand Tools Clinic: Part One" can be expensive‚ LOL. Reminder he will be doing at Lisle/Chicagoland nest.

I decided to go with a Mitutoyo Digital caliper and purchased it from Amazon on Friday and it was here on Saturday. My decision was based mainly on the fact that I am collaborating on designing a new resin kit and on my last collaboration—the Yarmouth tank car—my confidence reading my dial caliper was so low I sent photos of what the dial said to my collaborator in Germany. This time my collaborator has the very same Mitutoyo Digital caliper and I can just read what the litt
le screen says and send it to him. To me being confident of what I am doing is worth the price. Much discussion around the fact that the Mitutoyo calipers are counterfeited and can be found for $30 so I was careful in looking at the details and specs. Returns are easy with Amazon and I was confident I was getting the real thing. The photos show what the packaging looks like. The brown sheet of paper in the factory wrapping of the caliper is imbedded with a rust inhibiter and obviously the battery comes separate. The storage case is robust and it is easy to tell which side is up.

Bill Welch

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