Date   

Re: Meat Reefer routing

Douglas Harding
 

The large major meat packers all had branch houses. Armour and Swift had hundreds. These were places that received hanging meat, ie carcasses, in company reefers, from the company slaughter houses. The carcasses were then processed, ie cut into meat cuts, for distribution to meat buyers. Think grocery warehouses, meat markets, hotel and restaurant concerns and institutions like schools, prisons, military base, etc. Many of the branch houses had a fleet of delivery trucks.

 

In addition to branch houses, hanging meat was also shipped directly to places like grocery warehouses, where the carcasses were processed. Think of anyone purchasing large quantities of meat.

 

For operations a branch house only received reefers from the company slaughter house: ie Swift to Swift, Armour to Armour, etc. But a private buyer, like a grocery warehouse or military based could receive reefers from many different slaughter houses. If you want to run a string of Armour reefers, then model an Armour branch house. But if you want to run a variety of meat reefers, then model a cold storage building or an grocery warehouse, or perhaps a commissary for the military or railroad.

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of John Barry
Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2019 7:54 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Meat Reefer routing

 

Obviously meat reefers were routed from the large packing houses to the distributors, but who were the distributors? I'm beginning to think that the large brands such as Swift, Cudahay, etc. shipped to their own distributor network who then sold to grocers, butchers and other wholesalers locally.  I base this partly on the 1943 Oakland City Directory listing for Meat Wholesalers which includes Cudahay at 222 3rd street, right on the WP line into Oakland.  It is in an industrial area with no room for a stock yard, just inland from the Santa Fe's Alice Street facilities.  Swift is several blocks west on the WP line at 312 Clay Street.  Morrell is between them on the next street toward the water at 364 2nd Street.  These distributorship facilities may give you a reason to include your favorite meat reefer on your layout, even if they didn't have a slaughterhouse and stockyards.

 

 

 

John Barry

 

ATSF North Bay Lines 

Golden Gates & Fast Freights 

Lovettsville, VA

 

707-490-9696 

 

PO Box 44736 

Washington, DC 20026-4736

 

 

On Saturday, June 15, 2019, 8:23:22 AM EDT, mopacfirst <ron.merrick@...> wrote:

 

 

Not to derail the paint discussion, but I just noticed that both of these reefers have, on the roof, the characteristic angle just outboard of the hatches that was standard on ART cars.  They also have the characteristic horizontal seam.

Were these cars built by ACF (or someone else) to an ART design?

Ron Merrick


Re: Paint Scheme for Swift 6700 Series Reefers

Douglas Harding
 

Nelson the photo I have of a 6700 Swift reefer is BW. It appears that sill steps are red, when compared to the plate under the door. Attached is a photo of 4863 in red. Also attached is a Swift ad showing a yellow car.

 

On red cars the plate under the door was always black. End sills are red. Photos show sill steps were black or red. I speculating originally black, and then painted red on repaints.

 

https://myp48.wordpress.com/2017/07/16/prototype-swift-wood-reefers/

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Nelson Moyer
Sent: Friday, June 14, 2019 11:49 AM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Paint Scheme for Swift 6700 Series Reefers

 

I’m building two Sunshine 6700 series reefers, and I only have two photos of these cars, both in black and white. SRLX 6723 is painted in the yellow banner scheme, and it’s clear that the underframe cover plates and sill steps are yellow, while the rest of the underframe is black. SRLX 6714 is painted in the red scheme, and it’s not possible to determine if the color plates and sill steps are red or black. I can’t tell if the end sills are red or black. I’d appreciate information about the red paint scheme for this car and any color photos available.

 

Nelson Moyer


Re: Wilson and Armor Reefers [was Swift 6700 Series]

Nelson Moyer
 

Wilson operated a large packing plant in Oklahoma City in the 1970s, but I don’t know when it opened or closed. A friend who worked for IBM designed and maintained their computer system as a full time job for years. He told me his first task was to learn all about the meat packing industry so he would understand their needs. There may be information about the plant and perhaps photos in Oklahoma City and/or Oklahoma State archives.

 

Nelson Moyer

 


Re: Rapido Reefer Paint Color Comparison

Nelson Moyer
 

OK, Wilson started out more yellow-orange than orange, but that’s not consortium reefer yellow. I have some yellow cars (WFE, FGE, and BRE) that I should have included in the comparison photo for reference. Consortium cars started out yellow and either faded (wood cars mostly) or moved toward Armour yellow. Stan displayed several consortium cars at the St. Louis RPM shortly before he passed away, and I asked him that color he use on the BREX cars. His answer was Armour yellow. I’ve since learned that Armour yellow represents cars that have been in service a while and gotten dirty, because new paint was more like Scalecoat reefer yellow. I’ve been painting new consortium cars Tru Color WFE Reefer Yellow on the assumption that FGE and BRE used the same paint colors as WFE, and the Tru color paint was matched to a color chip. A attached a couple of photos showing a car painted with WFE reefer yellow and Tru Color Armour yellow (car obviously not finished), along with the Rapido Swift car posted earlier. Reefer in service photos depend upon lights, camera (film), and action ; )

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2019 6:54 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Rapido Reefer Paint Color Comparison

 


Sigh.



On 6/14/2019 8:31 PM, Nelson Moyer wrote:

Here are three variations on reefer orange and reefer yellow. The Wilson car is definitely orange. The Scalecoat II 1 to 5 mix approximates the Wilson color. The Kingan car is medium orange-yellow, and the Swift car is light orange-yellow (actually more orange than the photo shows, but not as orange as the Kingan car). Lights are 5000 K. The swift car isn’t a bright reefer yellow but yellow with a hint of orange. I think Rapido did a better job of color matching than Atlas.

 

Nelson Moyer

Attachments:


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Rapido Reefer Paint Color Comparison

Peter Ness
 

Tim, stop muddying the waters.  One of those cars is a Wilson WCLX while the other is clearly a Wilson & Co. WCLX.  They are horses (or meat reefers) of a different color from the get-go  8-p

Peter Ness

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2019 7:54 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Rapido Reefer Paint Color Comparison

 


Sigh.



On 6/14/2019 8:31 PM, Nelson Moyer wrote:

Here are three variations on reefer orange and reefer yellow. The Wilson car is definitely orange. The Scalecoat II 1 to 5 mix approximates the Wilson color. The Kingan car is medium orange-yellow, and the Swift car is light orange-yellow (actually more orange than the photo shows, but not as orange as the Kingan car). Lights are 5000 K. The swift car isn’t a bright reefer yellow but yellow with a hint of orange. I think Rapido did a better job of color matching than Atlas.

 

Nelson Moyer

Attachments:


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Wilson and Armor Reefers [was Swift 6700 Series]

Steve and Barb Hile
 

Sure.  They had to do something with the hides.  The motto for the stockyards/packing houses was "Everything but the squeal."

Steve Hile

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Ness
Sent: Jun 15, 2019 7:15 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Wilson and Armor Reefers [was Swift 6700 Series]

Thank you, Garth.

 

I’ve come across very little reference information on Wilson & Co., so can’t provide any insight on possible car supplier operations.  From photographic evidence at least in the late 1950’s Wilson & Co reefers appear to be only slightly less present than Swift cars in Southern New England. Armour, Cudahy and others a distant third in appearance. There are numerous photos of blocks of Wilson & Co cars and also Swift cars on the New Haven’s Maybrook Line which would be the westward connection to Chicago. Likewise photos of single cars (Swift or Wilson & Co) in switching moves at local packing houses. Not so much for other meet packers. 

 

Unlike produce reefers, not many meet reefers appear in overview photos of the large yards in South Boston or Cedar Hill, indicating to me, anyway, that the meat packing fleet in Southern New England was kept busy day in and day out.  Heck, there is a photo of not one but TWO Swift stock cars being switched with two Swift reefers in the Water Street Yard in New Haven, CT in the Cornell University Digital Collection.

 

Also from photos, like Swift and Armour, Wilson & Co had a vehicle fleet to transport locally processed product in metropolitan areas from local company-owned packing houses.

 

I learned only today, from the Encyclopedia of Chicago website, that Wilson also had established a sporting goods subsidiary by 1917…yes, THAT Wilson was one and the same!

 

Peter Ness

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Garth Groff
Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2019 5:16 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Wilson and Armor Reefers [was Swift 6700 Series]

 

Peter,

Some color views of both Wilson and Armour cars are found in John Henderson's CLASSIC FREIGHT CARS, VOL. 3. He offers four photos of steel Armour cars, and all have somewhat different tones, ranging from orange to yellow. Whether the original paint was different, or the variations are because of lighting, film type, or printing, I can't say. Similarly, the two views of Wilson steel cars are also quite different, and certainly lighting plays a role here, as the sky is rendered differently in the two photos.

One of the Wilson cars is lettered WCLX, but under lease to Schuyler Packing Co. and carries their herald. Question for discussion: Was Wilson a car supplier, a packer, or both?

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 6/14/19 9:32 PM, Peter Ness wrote:

Hi Nelson,

 

RMJ (on TrainLife) has the Swift article in the Feb 1993 issue by Martin Lofton that includes color and b/w prototype photos. There is also a 3-part article by Richard Hendrickson on 36’ wood reefers in the Feb ’96, Oct. ’96 and Mar ’97 issues that includes b/w photos of some Swift reefers. You may find these helpful as well.

 

Now if I could only find such detail information on Wilson and Armour reefers I’d be a happy camper.

 

Peter Ness

 

 

 


Meat Reefer routing

John Barry
 

Obviously meat reefers were routed from the large packing houses to the distributors, but who were the distributors? I'm beginning to think that the large brands such as Swift, Cudahay, etc. shipped to their own distributor network who then sold to grocers, butchers and other wholesalers locally.  I base this partly on the 1943 Oakland City Directory listing for Meat Wholesalers which includes Cudahay at 222 3rd street, right on the WP line into Oakland.  It is in an industrial area with no room for a stock yard, just inland from the Santa Fe's Alice Street facilities.  Swift is several blocks west on the WP line at 312 Clay Street.  Morrell is between them on the next street toward the water at 364 2nd Street.  These distributorship facilities may give you a reason to include your favorite meat reefer on your layout, even if they didn't have a slaughterhouse and stockyards.



John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736


On Saturday, June 15, 2019, 8:23:22 AM EDT, mopacfirst <ron.merrick@...> wrote:


Not to derail the paint discussion, but I just noticed that both of these reefers have, on the roof, the characteristic angle just outboard of the hatches that was standard on ART cars.  They also have the characteristic horizontal seam.

Were these cars built by ACF (or someone else) to an ART design?

Ron Merrick


Re: Rapido Reefer Paint Color Comparison

mopacfirst
 

Not to derail the paint discussion, but I just noticed that both of these reefers have, on the roof, the characteristic angle just outboard of the hatches that was standard on ART cars.  They also have the characteristic horizontal seam.

Were these cars built by ACF (or someone else) to an ART design?

Ron Merrick


Re: Wilson and Armor Reefers [was Swift 6700 Series]

Peter Ness
 

Thank you, Garth.

 

I’ve come across very little reference information on Wilson & Co., so can’t provide any insight on possible car supplier operations.  From photographic evidence at least in the late 1950’s Wilson & Co reefers appear to be only slightly less present than Swift cars in Southern New England. Armour, Cudahy and others a distant third in appearance. There are numerous photos of blocks of Wilson & Co cars and also Swift cars on the New Haven’s Maybrook Line which would be the westward connection to Chicago. Likewise photos of single cars (Swift or Wilson & Co) in switching moves at local packing houses. Not so much for other meet packers. 

 

Unlike produce reefers, not many meet reefers appear in overview photos of the large yards in South Boston or Cedar Hill, indicating to me, anyway, that the meat packing fleet in Southern New England was kept busy day in and day out.  Heck, there is a photo of not one but TWO Swift stock cars being switched with two Swift reefers in the Water Street Yard in New Haven, CT in the Cornell University Digital Collection.

 

Also from photos, like Swift and Armour, Wilson & Co had a vehicle fleet to transport locally processed product in metropolitan areas from local company-owned packing houses.

 

I learned only today, from the Encyclopedia of Chicago website, that Wilson also had established a sporting goods subsidiary by 1917…yes, THAT Wilson was one and the same!

 

Peter Ness

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Garth Groff
Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2019 5:16 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Wilson and Armor Reefers [was Swift 6700 Series]

 

Peter,

Some color views of both Wilson and Armour cars are found in John Henderson's CLASSIC FREIGHT CARS, VOL. 3. He offers four photos of steel Armour cars, and all have somewhat different tones, ranging from orange to yellow. Whether the original paint was different, or the variations are because of lighting, film type, or printing, I can't say. Similarly, the two views of Wilson steel cars are also quite different, and certainly lighting plays a role here, as the sky is rendered differently in the two photos.

One of the Wilson cars is lettered WCLX, but under lease to Schuyler Packing Co. and carries their herald. Question for discussion: Was Wilson a car supplier, a packer, or both?

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 6/14/19 9:32 PM, Peter Ness wrote:

Hi Nelson,

 

RMJ (on TrainLife) has the Swift article in the Feb 1993 issue by Martin Lofton that includes color and b/w prototype photos. There is also a 3-part article by Richard Hendrickson on 36’ wood reefers in the Feb ’96, Oct. ’96 and Mar ’97 issues that includes b/w photos of some Swift reefers. You may find these helpful as well.

 

Now if I could only find such detail information on Wilson and Armour reefers I’d be a happy camper.

 

Peter Ness

 

 

 


Re: Rapido Reefer Paint Color Comparison

Tim O'Connor
 


Sigh.



On 6/14/2019 8:31 PM, Nelson Moyer wrote:

Here are three variations on reefer orange and reefer yellow. The Wilson car is definitely orange. The Scalecoat II 1 to 5 mix approximates the Wilson color. The Kingan car is medium orange-yellow, and the Swift car is light orange-yellow (actually more orange than the photo shows, but not as orange as the Kingan car). Lights are 5000 K. The swift car isn’t a bright reefer yellow but yellow with a hint of orange. I think Rapido did a better job of color matching than Atlas.

 

Nelson Moyer

Attachments:


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Rapido Reefer Paint Color Comparison

O Fenton Wells
 

Thanks Nelson, I haven't found a good out of the bottle meat reefer yellow/orange.  As easily as those cars picked up dirt and grime it is a varying shade depending on the cars age, judging from actual photos in my humble opinion.
Fenton

On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 8:32 PM Nelson Moyer <npmoyer@...> wrote:

Here are three variations on reefer orange and reefer yellow. The Wilson car is definitely orange. The Scalecoat II 1 to 5 mix approximates the Wilson color. The Kingan car is medium orange-yellow, and the Swift car is light orange-yellow (actually more orange than the photo shows, but not as orange as the Kingan car). Lights are 5000 K. The swift car isn’t a bright reefer yellow but yellow with a hint of orange. I think Rapido did a better job of color matching than Atlas.

 

Nelson Moyer



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Re: Paint Scheme for Swift 6700 Series Reefers

Peter Ness
 

Thank you, Nelson!

Peter Ness

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Nelson Moyer
Sent: Friday, June 14, 2019 11:00 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Paint Scheme for Swift 6700 Series Reefers

 

Railroad Prototype Cyclopedia Volume 21 has a comprehensive article on Armour reefers that you will find helpful. I don’t know of any Wilson references.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Peter Ness
Sent: Friday, June 14, 2019 8:32 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Paint Scheme for Swift 6700 Series Reefers

 

Hi Nelson,

 

RMJ (on TrainLife) has the Swift article in the Feb 1993 issue by Martin Lofton that includes color and b/w prototype photos. There is also a 3-part article by Richard Hendrickson on 36’ wood reefers in the Feb ’96, Oct. ’96 and Mar ’97 issues that includes b/w photos of some Swift reefers. You may find these helpful as well.

 

Now if I could only find such detail information on Wilson and Armour reefers I’d be a happy camper.

 

Peter Ness

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Nelson Moyer
Sent: Friday, June 14, 2019 5:07 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Paint Scheme for Swift 6700 Series Reefers

 

I’ll look at the RMJ and MR articles. I’ve learned not to trust model photos, as even some cars in Sunshine instructions and PDSs are built and/ or painted wrong, e.g. cross bearers and/or cross ties positioned wrong and silver roof on reefers here builder’s photos were airbrushed. Model photos in old publication are particularly unreliable as little prototype information might be available when they were built. Color me skeptic.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Richard Townsend via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, June 14, 2019 2:02 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Paint Scheme for Swift 6700 Series Reefers

 

The Feb 1993 RMJ has color photos of models built from these kits, that might answer your questions. I have only a low-res scan and can't tell. In the Oct 1953 MR Paul Larsen has an article on building a Swift reefer in the red scheme from a different number series. He had the prototype car in front of him. He said the sill steps and underframe were black. Sides and ends red, except under the door, where black was uses. He said nothing about a different color for the end sill. Looking at other color photos of other red Swift cars (all from other number series), the sill steps under the doors are always black. At the ends of the sides, the sill steps appear to vary, with red used if the sides are steel, and sometimes red, sometimes black if the sides are wood (black especially if these is a black metal plate above the step - looks like a wrap-around from the end sill). The end sills also appear to be black when that plate is on the sides. Sometimes they appear to be black even without that plate, but usually red. In many cases, heavy weathering makes color determinations difficult, with everything in question just a dirty gray. Suggested solution: weather.

Richard Townsend

Lincoln City, OR

 


Re: Wilson and Armor Reefers [was Swift 6700 Series]

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Peter,

Some color views of both Wilson and Armour cars are found in John Henderson's CLASSIC FREIGHT CARS, VOL. 3. He offers four photos of steel Armour cars, and all have somewhat different tones, ranging from orange to yellow. Whether the original paint was different, or the variations are because of lighting, film type, or printing, I can't say. Similarly, the two views of Wilson steel cars are also quite different, and certainly lighting plays a role here, as the sky is rendered differently in the two photos.

One of the Wilson cars is lettered WCLX, but under lease to Schuyler Packing Co. and carries their herald. Question for discussion: Was Wilson a car supplier, a packer, or both?

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 6/14/19 9:32 PM, Peter Ness wrote:

Hi Nelson,

 

RMJ (on TrainLife) has the Swift article in the Feb 1993 issue by Martin Lofton that includes color and b/w prototype photos. There is also a 3-part article by Richard Hendrickson on 36’ wood reefers in the Feb ’96, Oct. ’96 and Mar ’97 issues that includes b/w photos of some Swift reefers. You may find these helpful as well.

 

Now if I could only find such detail information on Wilson and Armour reefers I’d be a happy camper.

 

Peter Ness

 




Re: Paint Scheme for Swift 6700 Series Reefers

Nelson Moyer
 

Railroad Prototype Cyclopedia Volume 21 has a comprehensive article on Armour reefers that you will find helpful. I don’t know of any Wilson references.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Peter Ness
Sent: Friday, June 14, 2019 8:32 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Paint Scheme for Swift 6700 Series Reefers

 

Hi Nelson,

 

RMJ (on TrainLife) has the Swift article in the Feb 1993 issue by Martin Lofton that includes color and b/w prototype photos. There is also a 3-part article by Richard Hendrickson on 36’ wood reefers in the Feb ’96, Oct. ’96 and Mar ’97 issues that includes b/w photos of some Swift reefers. You may find these helpful as well.

 

Now if I could only find such detail information on Wilson and Armour reefers I’d be a happy camper.

 

Peter Ness

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Nelson Moyer
Sent: Friday, June 14, 2019 5:07 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Paint Scheme for Swift 6700 Series Reefers

 

I’ll look at the RMJ and MR articles. I’ve learned not to trust model photos, as even some cars in Sunshine instructions and PDSs are built and/ or painted wrong, e.g. cross bearers and/or cross ties positioned wrong and silver roof on reefers here builder’s photos were airbrushed. Model photos in old publication are particularly unreliable as little prototype information might be available when they were built. Color me skeptic.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Richard Townsend via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, June 14, 2019 2:02 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Paint Scheme for Swift 6700 Series Reefers

 

The Feb 1993 RMJ has color photos of models built from these kits, that might answer your questions. I have only a low-res scan and can't tell. In the Oct 1953 MR Paul Larsen has an article on building a Swift reefer in the red scheme from a different number series. He had the prototype car in front of him. He said the sill steps and underframe were black. Sides and ends red, except under the door, where black was uses. He said nothing about a different color for the end sill. Looking at other color photos of other red Swift cars (all from other number series), the sill steps under the doors are always black. At the ends of the sides, the sill steps appear to vary, with red used if the sides are steel, and sometimes red, sometimes black if the sides are wood (black especially if these is a black metal plate above the step - looks like a wrap-around from the end sill). The end sills also appear to be black when that plate is on the sides. Sometimes they appear to be black even without that plate, but usually red. In many cases, heavy weathering makes color determinations difficult, with everything in question just a dirty gray. Suggested solution: weather.

Richard Townsend

Lincoln City, OR

 


Two operators needed for June 29th Alma branch op session

Jared Harper
 

Jared Harper
Athens, GA
706-543-8821


Re: Univ of KY Digital Archives

 

In the second photo, the gin on the left has a buckled side. 

Thanks!
Brian Ehni 
(Sent from my iPhone)

On Jun 14, 2019, at 8:26 PM, rwitt_2000 via Groups.Io <rwitt_2000@...> wrote:

There are these two:

https://exploreuk.uky.edu/catalog/xt7sf7664q86_6112_1?q=railroad+car&per_page=20

https://exploreuk.uky.edu/catalog/xt7sf7664q86_6115_1?q=railroad+car&per_page=20

If these photos were taken for damage claims the first has a shifted lumber load.  The second, the gondola loaded with coal, it looks like it smashed the draft gear of the gondola to its right.

Bob Witt


Re: Paint Scheme for Swift 6700 Series Reefers

Peter Ness
 

Todd, Do you mean roofs thata looka lika this? (BTW, note both apparently black and red sill steps on two adjacent cars in foreground; Rule #1: There are no Rules…)

 

 

Peter Ness

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Todd Sullivan via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, June 14, 2019 7:00 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Paint Scheme for Swift 6700 Series Reefers

 

About 8-9 years ago, I did a lot of work on a fleet of 28 Atlas Swift reefers for a friend of mine with a large layout.  I studied all the color photos I could find (there are not many), and did a lot of detail painting and car renumbering as well as painting up and decaling two different yellow schemes.  My reading of the yellow that Swift used is that it was a little more orange than Floquil's Reefer Yellow, so I added a small amount Reefer Orange and perhaps a touch of some freight car red color.  It seemed reasonably close.  As for black parts on red cars, I agree generally with Richard Townsend's comments.  One of the most interesting things about the red wooden cars was the fact that Swift painted the sides and ends and left the roofs alone, unless the roofs were painted silver.  The unpainted roofs seemed to be repainted board-by-board with all kinds of red hues from new Swift red to light pink and even shades of gray where the paint was completely gone.  I'll see if I can find a photo or two of the models and post them with this.

BTW, one of the small color books on the anthracite country railroads had a down-on shot of a CNJ yard with 2-3 Swift reefers in both the red and yellow schemes.

Todd Sullivan


Re: Paint Scheme for Swift 6700 Series Reefers

Peter Ness
 

Hi Nelson,

 

RMJ (on TrainLife) has the Swift article in the Feb 1993 issue by Martin Lofton that includes color and b/w prototype photos. There is also a 3-part article by Richard Hendrickson on 36’ wood reefers in the Feb ’96, Oct. ’96 and Mar ’97 issues that includes b/w photos of some Swift reefers. You may find these helpful as well.

 

Now if I could only find such detail information on Wilson and Armour reefers I’d be a happy camper.

 

Peter Ness

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Nelson Moyer
Sent: Friday, June 14, 2019 5:07 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Paint Scheme for Swift 6700 Series Reefers

 

I’ll look at the RMJ and MR articles. I’ve learned not to trust model photos, as even some cars in Sunshine instructions and PDSs are built and/ or painted wrong, e.g. cross bearers and/or cross ties positioned wrong and silver roof on reefers here builder’s photos were airbrushed. Model photos in old publication are particularly unreliable as little prototype information might be available when they were built. Color me skeptic.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Richard Townsend via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, June 14, 2019 2:02 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Paint Scheme for Swift 6700 Series Reefers

 

The Feb 1993 RMJ has color photos of models built from these kits, that might answer your questions. I have only a low-res scan and can't tell. In the Oct 1953 MR Paul Larsen has an article on building a Swift reefer in the red scheme from a different number series. He had the prototype car in front of him. He said the sill steps and underframe were black. Sides and ends red, except under the door, where black was uses. He said nothing about a different color for the end sill. Looking at other color photos of other red Swift cars (all from other number series), the sill steps under the doors are always black. At the ends of the sides, the sill steps appear to vary, with red used if the sides are steel, and sometimes red, sometimes black if the sides are wood (black especially if these is a black metal plate above the step - looks like a wrap-around from the end sill). The end sills also appear to be black when that plate is on the sides. Sometimes they appear to be black even without that plate, but usually red. In many cases, heavy weathering makes color determinations difficult, with everything in question just a dirty gray. Suggested solution: weather.

Richard Townsend

Lincoln City, OR

 


Re: Univ of KY Digital Archives

rwitt_2000
 

There are these two:

https://exploreuk.uky.edu/catalog/xt7sf7664q86_6112_1?q=railroad+car&per_page=20

https://exploreuk.uky.edu/catalog/xt7sf7664q86_6115_1?q=railroad+car&per_page=20

If these photos were taken for damage claims the first has a shifted lumber load.  The second, the gondola loaded with coal, it looks like it smashed the draft gear of the gondola to its right.

Bob Witt


Steel running boards for PFE R-70-2

Andy Carlson
 

I think that I will pass on this item this time.
Thanks,
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

On Friday, June 14, 2019, 5:29:44 PM PDT, Richard Townsend via Groups.Io <richtownsend@...> wrote:


I would like one, too.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: peteraue via Groups.Io <peteraue@...>
To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Jun 14, 2019 3:06 am
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Steel running boards for PFE R-70-2

A good friend wants to modernize his Sunshine kits # 25.1/2/3 and put
Apex Trilock running boards on his R-70-2 reefers. He asked me to
provide him with custom photo-etched RBs with accurate spacing to match
the ribs on the roof. There will be a very limited number of extra parts
for others. Please raise your hand if you want them. $ 5 each plus
shipping. Delivery time approximately 3 months. First come, first serve.

Peter Aue




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