Date   

Mid-Century Boxcars & Boxcar Models

Bob Chaparro
 

Mid-Century Boxcars & Boxcar Models

In case some of you have not seen this document from the Fox Valley Division of the NMRA:

http://www.foxvalleydivision.org/fvd2016/imagesfvd2016/clinicdata/Mid-Century%20Boxcars%20V2.pdf

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


ATSF BX-26 Duryea underframe

Steve SANDIFER
 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of James SANDIFER
Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2019 10:38 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] InterMountain HO Scale 1937 AAR Boxcars with Square Corners

 

It would be helpful if someone would post plans for the Santa Fe Duryea or photos of the Speedwitch car underbody.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tom Madden via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, June 28, 2019 11:11 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] InterMountain HO Scale 1937 AAR Boxcars with Square Corners

 

I found two different types in my stash. One is a Sunshine mini-kit, "Rock Island Duryea Underframe, Superior Door, Decals for 10'6" IH Boxcar", and a set for a Frisco boxcar marketed for a short time by a modeler whose name escapes me. It's "#37DUR FRISCO BOXCAR U'FRAME & DOORS", and on the back of the package it says "CAST RESIN PARTS TO MODEL SL-SF 1937 AAR BOX CAR WITH DURYEA UNDER FRAME. USE WITH RED CABOOSE #RC-8001 BOXCAR KIT."

As mentioned there's the Speedwitch B&O M-26D/E kit, and also the Speedwitch Santa Fe Bx-26 boxcar kit, which also has a Duryea underframe. Haven't compared the two to see if they're different.

Tom Madden


Re: InterMountain HO Scale 1937 AAR Boxcars with Square Corners

Tim O'Connor
 

Stephen

Some Bx-27 photos posted about 15-16 years ago might be helpful.

I've also attached Craig Zeni's shot of his Bx-26 underframe.

Tim



On 6/29/2019 11:37 AM, James SANDIFER wrote:

It would be helpful if someone would post plans for the Santa Fe Duryea or photos of the Speedwitch car underbody.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tom Madden via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, June 28, 2019 11:11 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] InterMountain HO Scale 1937 AAR Boxcars with Square Corners

 

I found two different types in my stash. One is a Sunshine mini-kit, "Rock Island Duryea Underframe, Superior Door, Decals for 10'6" IH Boxcar", and a set for a Frisco boxcar marketed for a short time by a modeler whose name escapes me. It's "#37DUR FRISCO BOXCAR U'FRAME & DOORS", and on the back of the package it says "CAST RESIN PARTS TO MODEL SL-SF 1937 AAR BOX CAR WITH DURYEA UNDER FRAME. USE WITH RED CABOOSE #RC-8001 BOXCAR KIT."

As mentioned there's the Speedwitch B&O M-26D/E kit, and also the Speedwitch Santa Fe Bx-26 boxcar kit, which also has a Duryea underframe. Haven't compared the two to see if they're different.

Tom Madden



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Atlas NE-6 caboose

Dave Lawler
 

Good day all,
I'm thinking of buying an Atlas Master Series NE-6 caboose but I would need to strip and repaint it.
Has anyone taken one of these apart? Is it simple like screwed together or is it all glued and impossible to
disassemble? Thank you for any help.
Dave Lawler


Re: InterMountain HO Scale 1937 AAR Boxcars with Square Corners

Tom Madden
 

On Sat, Jun 29, 2019 at 10:29 AM, Tom Madden wrote:
Ted also covered construction of the B&O M-26D/E Duryea underframe in his April 2007 Essential Freight Cars article.
That would be in RAILROAD MODEL CRAFTSMAN, of course.

And thanks, Tim, for recalling Joe Pennington's name.

Tom Madden


Re: Private: Re: InterMountain HO Scale 1937 AAR Boxcars with Square Corners

Tim O'Connor
 


George asked me offline but in case anyone else is not aware -

GROUPS.IO makes searching the archive 100x more convenient than the old Yahoo search.

Here is a simple search for DURYEA - 662 messages founded instantly.

https://realstmfc.groups.io/g/main/search?q=duryea

Tim O'Connor


===============================


On 6/29/2019 7:28 AM, George Toman wrote:
Morning Tim,

Could you tell me what you mean by the STMFC Archive and how I may access it?

Thanks

George Toman 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: InterMountain HO Scale 1937 AAR Boxcars with Square Corners

Tom Madden
 

On Sat, Jun 29, 2019 at 10:04 AM, Tim O'Connor wrote:
Sunshine called it the "early/late" mini-kit. Make of that what you
will. ;-):-)
I'll try to get some photos or scans of the different resin detail sheets up later, but Bill Darnaby wrote an addendum to the Sunshine instructions for the RI boxcar's Duryea underframe mini-kit. It's page 2 at this link, and he mentions it contains both early and late parts:
http://www.sunshinekits.com/suninst/instmk07.pdf

Ted also covered construction of the B&O M-26D/E Duryea underframe in his April 2007 Essential Freight Cars article.

Tom Madden


Re: InterMountain HO Scale 1937 AAR Boxcars with Square Corners

Tim O'Connor
 


Tom - JOE PENNINGTON

He mastered a bunch of very fine resin parts for modeling SLSF freight cars and
sold them roughly 1997 & 1998. Al Westerfield made the castings. His Duryea underframe
had the large open crossbearers found on ATSF (Bx-27 as discussed here), SLSF, and T&P
box cars of that time period.

Joe also produced beautiful Youngstown doors with Camel hardware, an 8 foot Superior door,
and coupler boxes with draft gear detail.

Tim O'Connor



On 6/29/2019 12:11 AM, Tom Madden via Groups.Io wrote:
I found two different types in my stash. One is a Sunshine mini-kit, "Rock Island Duryea Underframe, Superior Door, Decals for 10'6" IH Boxcar", and a set for a Frisco boxcar marketed for a short time by a modeler whose name escapes me. It's "#37DUR FRISCO BOXCAR U'FRAME & DOORS", and on the back of the package it says "CAST RESIN PARTS TO MODEL SL-SF 1937 AAR BOX CAR WITH DURYEA UNDER FRAME. USE WITH RED CABOOSE #RC-8001 BOXCAR KIT."

As mentioned there's the Speedwitch B&O M-26D/E kit, and also the Speedwitch Santa Fe Bx-26 boxcar kit, which also has a Duryea underframe. Haven't compared the two to see if they're different.

Tom Madden

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: InterMountain HO Scale 1937 AAR Boxcars with Square Corners (Duryea Mini-Kit)

mopacfirst
 

I can't confirm this because my stuff is half moved, and where I am today I have some other Sunshine mini-kits including one for the Santa Fe Bx-41 - Bx-49.  But I haven't turned up that one.  I seem to recall it was intended for use with Santa Fe and others, but that's the closest I can come.

The sunshinekits.com list has several Duryea underframe kits listed, but most are for specific cars, one being the RI.  There's one for CMO and another for SL-SF, but all three of these seem to be specific to one prototype.  The M2 (designation by Jim Hayes, not Sunshine) is a generic Duryea underframe, intended for 40' boxcars of several types.  That's what your instruction sheet is from, and that's probably what I have.  The sunshinekits site says about this one "can be ordered" which of course is now past tense, but I believe most of the mini-kits were a one-time, made for shows, and not normally sold by mail order.

Ron Merrick


Re: InterMountain HO Scale 1937 AAR Boxcars with Square Corners

Tim O'Connor
 

Sunshine called it the "early/late" mini-kit. Make of that what you will. ;-):-)

Tim O'

On 6/28/2019 9:11 PM, WILLIAM PARDIE wrote:
I'm not at home but I know that in my stash I have a Sunshine monitor kit for a Duryea underframe.  Does anyone know if this is the Santa Fe or B&O
version?

Bill Pardie
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*


Re: InterMountain HO Scale 1937 AAR Boxcars with Square Corners (Duryea Mini-Kit)

Bob Chaparro
 

Perhaps this was the mini-kit:
https://www.sunshinekits.com/suninst/instm2.pdf
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA


Re: InterMountain HO Scale 1937 AAR Boxcars with Square Corners

Steve SANDIFER
 

It would be helpful if someone would post plans for the Santa Fe Duryea or photos of the Speedwitch car underbody.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tom Madden via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, June 28, 2019 11:11 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] InterMountain HO Scale 1937 AAR Boxcars with Square Corners

 

I found two different types in my stash. One is a Sunshine mini-kit, "Rock Island Duryea Underframe, Superior Door, Decals for 10'6" IH Boxcar", and a set for a Frisco boxcar marketed for a short time by a modeler whose name escapes me. It's "#37DUR FRISCO BOXCAR U'FRAME & DOORS", and on the back of the package it says "CAST RESIN PARTS TO MODEL SL-SF 1937 AAR BOX CAR WITH DURYEA UNDER FRAME. USE WITH RED CABOOSE #RC-8001 BOXCAR KIT."

As mentioned there's the Speedwitch B&O M-26D/E kit, and also the Speedwitch Santa Fe Bx-26 boxcar kit, which also has a Duryea underframe. Haven't compared the two to see if they're different.

Tom Madden


National Malleable trucks

Rupert Gamlen
 

I know that National Malleable & Steel Castings had a type B truck, introduced in about June 1931, and a type C truck, introduced in about 1946, but was there a type A?

Rupert Gamlen
Auckland NZ


Re: InterMountain HO Scale 1937 AAR Boxcars with Square Corners

Tom Madden
 

I found two different types in my stash. One is a Sunshine mini-kit, "Rock Island Duryea Underframe, Superior Door, Decals for 10'6" IH Boxcar", and a set for a Frisco boxcar marketed for a short time by a modeler whose name escapes me. It's "#37DUR FRISCO BOXCAR U'FRAME & DOORS", and on the back of the package it says "CAST RESIN PARTS TO MODEL SL-SF 1937 AAR BOX CAR WITH DURYEA UNDER FRAME. USE WITH RED CABOOSE #RC-8001 BOXCAR KIT."

As mentioned there's the Speedwitch B&O M-26D/E kit, and also the Speedwitch Santa Fe Bx-26 boxcar kit, which also has a Duryea underframe. Haven't compared the two to see if they're different.

Tom Madden


Re: InterMountain HO Scale 1937 AAR Boxcars with Square Corners

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

Yes Ron this is the same kit.  We are all continuing to increase our knowledge of the various devises used on freight cars.  For most of my modeling years I thought that an Andrew's truck was an Andrew's truck.  In recent years I learned that there is a wide variety of Andrew's trucks.  Dalman had their own version and the Santa Fe had two varieties.  There were at least two types of slack adjusters.

One of my problems is with learning about these  items long after a car has been completed.  I am left with altering the model or living with one that I now know was done in error.

Oh well.  Back to the beach.

Bill Pardie



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: mopacfirst <ron.merrick@...>
Date: 6/28/19 3:57 PM (GMT-10:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] InterMountain HO Scale 1937 AAR Boxcars with Square Corners

There was a mini-kit for a Duryea underframe.  Is that what you're referring to?   I picked up a couple of them, perhaps at the only time I was ever at Naperville.  But I don't know the answer to your specific question.  I could use one under a Santa Fe Bx-27 that I cobbled together from an Intermountain kit, with the single sidesill tab but no real Duryea underframe detail.

Ron Merrick


Re: InterMountain HO Scale 1937 AAR Boxcars with Square Corners

mopacfirst
 

There was a mini-kit for a Duryea underframe.  Is that what you're referring to?   I picked up a couple of them, perhaps at the only time I was ever at Naperville.  But I don't know the answer to your specific question.  I could use one under a Santa Fe Bx-27 that I cobbled together from an Intermountain kit, with the single sidesill tab but no real Duryea underframe detail.

Ron Merrick


Re: InterMountain HO Scale 1937 AAR Boxcars with Square Corners

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

I'm not at home but I know that in my stash I have a Sunshine monitor kit for a Duryea underframe.  Does anyone know if this is the Santa Fe or B&O
version?

Bill Pardie



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: "Bill Keene via Groups.Io" <bill41@...>
Date: 6/28/19 1:37 PM (GMT-10:00)
To: "main@realstmfc.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] InterMountain HO Scale 1937 AAR Boxcars with Square Corners

Tim,

Thank you for the info regarding the B&O Duryea underframes. I have filed this in a safe place. 

Cheers,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA



On Jun 28, 2019, at 4:19 PM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Bill

Here is a gem from Bob Witt in 2012 - I'm sure it's back in the STMFC archive too.
There's got to be a ton of stuff about Duryea underframes in the archive.

Tim O'



According to the B&O diagrams the type of Duryea underframe changed
during the production of the M-55B by Pullman-Standard. These 100 cars
differed from the previous productions with the Duryea underframe
updated to accept the AAR Z-26 center sill. They were termed "Type-1
single spring and AAR Z-26 center sill". The next orders for new 40-ft
box cars with IH of 10'-0" the class M-55c and M-55H built in 1945 and
1947 respectively had the same type of Duryea underframe. The last 40-ft
box cars with an IH of 10'-0" built for the B&O with Duryea underframes,
the class M-56, had "Duryea underframes with double springs and AAR Z-26
41.2# center sill".

The class M-58 and M-59 automobile box cars were built just after WWII
beginning in 1945 also had the updated Type-1 single spring Duryea
underframe with the AAR Z-26 center sill.

The next group of B&O box cars built in 1951, the class M-60 and class
M-61, which were 50-ft with an IH of 10'-6", had the later "Duryea
underframes with double springs and AAR Z-26 41.2# center sill".

I am not sure there are obvious external differences that can be modeled
between the "Type-1 single spring" and the later "double spring"
versions as the the springs are located inside the center sill.

The O. C. Duryea company filed and received many new patents for all
these changes and variations.

Some may notice that the built years and the class numbers are out of
order. The B&OHS does not have any memos explaining why.

Beginning with the M-55 and ending with the M-61 the build order is as
follows:

M-55 1940
M-55A 1941
M-57 1941
M-55B 1942
M-55C 1945
M-58 1945
M-59 1946-47
M-55H 1947
M-60 1951
M-61 1951
M-56 1952

All have Duryea underframes

These were the classes assigned when built new and all other sub-classes
were due to railroad made modifications usually for auto parts service.

Regards,

Bob Witt



=========================================

On 6/28/2019 6:36 PM, Bill Keene via Groups.Io wrote:

I have been told that the designs of the ATSF and B&O Duryea under frames differed. I believe that Speedwitch produced a kit with the B&O version. 



Re: InterMountain HO Scale 1937 AAR Boxcars with Square Corners

Bill Keene
 

Tim,

Thank you for the info regarding the B&O Duryea underframes. I have filed this in a safe place. 

Cheers,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA



On Jun 28, 2019, at 4:19 PM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Bill

Here is a gem from Bob Witt in 2012 - I'm sure it's back in the STMFC archive too.
There's got to be a ton of stuff about Duryea underframes in the archive.

Tim O'



According to the B&O diagrams the type of Duryea underframe changed
during the production of the M-55B by Pullman-Standard. These 100 cars
differed from the previous productions with the Duryea underframe
updated to accept the AAR Z-26 center sill. They were termed "Type-1
single spring and AAR Z-26 center sill". The next orders for new 40-ft
box cars with IH of 10'-0" the class M-55c and M-55H built in 1945 and
1947 respectively had the same type of Duryea underframe. The last 40-ft
box cars with an IH of 10'-0" built for the B&O with Duryea underframes,
the class M-56, had "Duryea underframes with double springs and AAR Z-26
41.2# center sill".

The class M-58 and M-59 automobile box cars were built just after WWII
beginning in 1945 also had the updated Type-1 single spring Duryea
underframe with the AAR Z-26 center sill.

The next group of B&O box cars built in 1951, the class M-60 and class
M-61, which were 50-ft with an IH of 10'-6", had the later "Duryea
underframes with double springs and AAR Z-26 41.2# center sill".

I am not sure there are obvious external differences that can be modeled
between the "Type-1 single spring" and the later "double spring"
versions as the the springs are located inside the center sill.

The O. C. Duryea company filed and received many new patents for all
these changes and variations.

Some may notice that the built years and the class numbers are out of
order. The B&OHS does not have any memos explaining why.

Beginning with the M-55 and ending with the M-61 the build order is as
follows:

M-55 1940
M-55A 1941
M-57 1941
M-55B 1942
M-55C 1945
M-58 1945
M-59 1946-47
M-55H 1947
M-60 1951
M-61 1951
M-56 1952

All have Duryea underframes

These were the classes assigned when built new and all other sub-classes
were due to railroad made modifications usually for auto parts service.

Regards,

Bob Witt



=========================================

On 6/28/2019 6:36 PM, Bill Keene via Groups.Io wrote:

I have been told that the designs of the ATSF and B&O Duryea under frames differed. I believe that Speedwitch produced a kit with the B&O version. 



Re: InterMountain HO Scale 1937 AAR Boxcars with Square Corners

Tim O'Connor
 

Bill

Here is a gem from Bob Witt in 2012 - I'm sure it's back in the STMFC archive too.
There's got to be a ton of stuff about Duryea underframes in the archive.

Tim O'



According to the B&O diagrams the type of Duryea underframe changed
during the production of the M-55B by Pullman-Standard. These 100 cars
differed from the previous productions with the Duryea underframe
updated to accept the AAR Z-26 center sill. They were termed "Type-1
single spring and AAR Z-26 center sill". The next orders for new 40-ft
box cars with IH of 10'-0" the class M-55c and M-55H built in 1945 and
1947 respectively had the same type of Duryea underframe. The last 40-ft
box cars with an IH of 10'-0" built for the B&O with Duryea underframes,
the class M-56, had "Duryea underframes with double springs and AAR Z-26
41.2# center sill".

The class M-58 and M-59 automobile box cars were built just after WWII
beginning in 1945 also had the updated Type-1 single spring Duryea
underframe with the AAR Z-26 center sill.

The next group of B&O box cars built in 1951, the class M-60 and class
M-61, which were 50-ft with an IH of 10'-6", had the later "Duryea
underframes with double springs and AAR Z-26 41.2# center sill".

I am not sure there are obvious external differences that can be modeled
between the "Type-1 single spring" and the later "double spring"
versions as the the springs are located inside the center sill.

The O. C. Duryea company filed and received many new patents for all
these changes and variations.

Some may notice that the built years and the class numbers are out of
order. The B&OHS does not have any memos explaining why.

Beginning with the M-55 and ending with the M-61 the build order is as
follows:

M-55 1940
M-55A 1941
M-57 1941
M-55B 1942
M-55C 1945
M-58 1945
M-59 1946-47
M-55H 1947
M-60 1951
M-61 1951
M-56 1952

All have Duryea underframes

These were the classes assigned when built new and all other sub-classes
were due to railroad made modifications usually for auto parts service.

Regards,

Bob Witt



=========================================

On 6/28/2019 6:36 PM, Bill Keene via Groups.Io wrote:
I have been told that the designs of the ATSF and B&O Duryea under frames differed. I believe that Speedwitch produced a kit with the B&O version. 

But, yes. This would be a welcome mini-kit for us Santa Fe modelers. That said, Bx-27 Duryea under frames would very much be a niche market. 

Cheers,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


On Jun 28, 2019, at 3:30 PM, James Lackner <gp40p2@...> wrote:

It seems like an aftermarket Duryea underframe kit is needed, though I have no idea if they are "all the same", or how many variations there are.  With Santa Fe, and is it B&O(?), and others who were heavy users of it, it would seem that a market would exist, maybe the Santa Fe and B&O historical societies could do a joint effort venture.

Just a thought, that probably isn't worth much due to reasons that I am not aware of.

Jim Lackner

On Fri, Jun 28, 2019 at 3:11 PM Bill Keene via Groups.Io <bill41=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:
Michael,

Thank you for the reminder about the mounting of the brake reservoir on the Bx-27s. I had completely forgotten this little detail. 

I was looking through my pile of goodies and find that I have one of the Sunshine Duryea underframe mini-kits. I guess I will try to use that kit as a sample to scratch build a version close enough to meet the three-foot rule for the other three or four kits that I have. Got to love the challenges that this hobby brings. 

Cheers,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA



On Jun 28, 2019, at 1:43 PM, Michael Gross <ActorMichaelGross@...> wrote:

Also interesting to note the Bx-27s did NOT have the transverse-mounted brake reservoir widely found on other Santa Fe classes.
--
Michael Gross
Pasadena, CA





--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Westy USRA 40-ton Double Sheathed boxcar as SP&S

Bill Welch
 

I forgot to say that by leaving the floor separate it makes it easy to glue the roof on from inside the body hiding any glue smears. Never understood the IMWX, Red Caboose, InterMountain, Branchline approach. Yes I realize different roofs could be fitted but mold inserts would do the same thing. L-L P2K understood.

Bill Welch

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