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Re: ARA 1932 Matches for Atlas Body Styles

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Steve,

Don't know. But like I said, these cars seem to be "more-or-less" correct for the indicated prototypes, which outside of resin is probably the best we're going to get.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 7/22/19 1:01 PM, steve_wintner via Groups.Io wrote:
The Soo cars were a solid 5 inches wider (IW) than the 1932 standard. Does the Atlas body capture that, or are they 8-9 like the standard would call for?

Granted, that's a minor compromise.

Many of those cars were rebuilt with new roofs later - Murphy diagonal panels. If the Atlas body is a 8-9 IW, not sure how easy modelling that conversion would be. I suppose one could narrow a roof and hide the seam under the running boards.

Steve

Ghost White Toner Again

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Friends,

It is time for a new printer. I have pretty much settled on an HP Laser Jet Pro M254dw, which according to the Ghost White web site is compatible with the white toner M254.

Do any of you have experience with this printer using Ghost White to make decals? Any other suggestions?

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

Re: ARA 1932 Matches for Atlas Body Styles

steve_wintner
 

I should have also said "thank you"!
Re: F&C PRR F34 heavy duty flatcar

Bruce Smith
 

Ron,

Look a little closer ;) It’s right on the F&C front page.  http://www.fandckits.com  It’s kit #8470. It is not listed in either the PRR listing or the listing by kit number, but the F&C web site is a bit like their kit instructions, so that really shouldn’t surprise you!

The F&C model came out last year, after the article by Chuck Cover was written and submitted. My TKM article about creating etched brass decks for the F34 DOES mention the F&C kit as well as having some illustrations that nicely indicate that pattern of holes and rivets in the decks of these cars. And not, the deck was NOT “sacrificial” as one recent reply indicated. It was heavy gauge steel, meant to take the force of the ties downs with any additional reinforcing. Referencing back to the C&NW car, I do NOT know if the decks were the same, but I suspect that they were different, as the decks I did came directly from PRR drawings and I am fairly sure that the decks were made by the PRR.

Because I am somewhat delusional, my plan is to sand the resin deck off of the F&C car, clear all of the resin from the areas that would have been open on the frame and then apply my etched brass decks, with the addition of Archer rivets. Without doing that, the kit looks very simple, with the caveat that the sill steps are fragile as hell and really need a brass replacement… (as with the F33).

The car requires 5’ wheelbase trucks, which can be bashed from Bower’s single spring PRR cabin car truck, or you can use the resin trucks in the kit. I am not thrilled with using resin trucks, but that is what I did with the F&C F33 and I may do that with the F34 as well. If they fail, modified Bowser trucks are a possible fall back position.

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




On Jul 22, 2019, at 12:07 PM, mopacfirst <ron.merrick@...> wrote:

Now for some model questions -- I noticed the F&C kit for the F34 heavy duty flatcar (kit 8470) is not on their website at present.  But there's one on eBay.

Has anybody built one?  Is it sturdy enough to operate, specifically the trucks?

I read the TKM article about building one from an Athearn, but it doesn't mention the F&C model.

Ron Merrick

Re: [Cyclotron Load On C&NW Heavy Duty Flat Car 48053

Tony Thompson
 

     As already pointed out, the Athearn 200-ton flat car has way too thick a body, but also rides very high on its span bolster. The appearance can be GREATLY improved by filing or sanding down the span bolster until the trucks are positioned under the body as in the C&NW flat car photo, and then correcting the couple height accordingly.

Tony Thompson
F&C PRR F34 heavy duty flatcar

mopacfirst
 

Now for some model questions -- I noticed the F&C kit for the F34 heavy duty flatcar (kit 8470) is not on their website at present.  But there's one on eBay.

Has anybody built one?  Is it sturdy enough to operate, specifically the trucks?

I read the TKM article about building one from an Athearn, but it doesn't mention the F&C model.

Ron Merrick
Re: ARA 1932 Matches for Atlas Body Styles

steve_wintner
 

The Soo cars were a solid 5 inches wider (IW) than the 1932 standard. Does the Atlas body capture that, or are they 8-9 like the standard would call for?

Granted, that's a minor compromise.

Many of those cars were rebuilt with new roofs later - Murphy diagonal panels. If the Atlas body is a 8-9 IW, not sure how easy modelling that conversion would be. I suppose one could narrow a roof and hide the seam under the running boards.

Steve
Re: Photo: Cyclotron Load On C&NW Heavy Duty Flat Car 48053

mopacfirst
 

Welding, yes, that happens all the time.  But I don't think cutting holes in a steel flatcar deck was ever a common practice, especially on cars with those 'keyhole' mounting holes as described.  For one thing, you can't make such a hole with a cutting torch, and just cutting a round hole doesn't buy you much if you can't mount some sort of retaining device, like a nut and washer, which would require access to the underside of the deck.

Ron Merrick
Re: Photo: Cyclotron Load On C&NW Heavy Duty Flat Car 48053

Charlie Vlk
 

"Crown" car was the brand name for the RTR Mantua cars that I mentioned in my previous post....the old filing clerk in my head fogot what drawer that factoid was stored in....
Charlie Vlk

On Jul 22, 2019 7:39 AM, "Daniel A. Mitchell" <danmitch@...> wrote:
Another plastic Athearn “200-ton” flatcar clone was one from “Crown” … a whole line of Athearn rip-offs, obviously copies, but with cruder molding and the bodies were often warped.

In addition, somebody (Bachmann?) marketed a modified version of this car … same body but with a single 6-wheel truck under each end instead of the span-bolstered 4-wheel trucks.

Dan Mitchell
==========

On Jul 22, 2019, at 8:28 AM, Daniel A. Mitchell <danmitch@...> wrote:

Either running through holes cut in the deck, or welded to the deck. Most likely pass through the deck into some reinforcement (plate or bracket) welded to the underside of the deck, probably fastened to some under-deck frame member. The decks on such cars were somewhat “sacrificial”. They’d cut holes in them, or bolt or weld brackets, flanges, etc. to the top side as needed.

Once the car was empty this ‘junk” was sometimes just left in place. The next user of the car would then need to cut it off and install their own hardware. Even if the left-overs were removed, the deck would often show scarring from all the welds and cut-offs.
Steel floors in gondolas also suffered such indignities. Photos of “empty” cars often show such remains.

Dan Mitchell
==========

On Jul 21, 2019, at 7:12 PM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


I don't really care what it is, but I'd like to know what those heavy
steel rods are attached to on the deck of the flat car. Didn't those flats
have heavy steel floors? Are the rods bored into the deck?




On 7/21/2019 3:55 PM, Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io wrote:
Photo: Cyclotron Load On C&NW Heavy Duty Flat Car 48053
A 1946 photo:
Photo can be enlarged quite a bit.
Description: Loading the Cyclotron for Shipment.
A cyclotron is a device to accelerate charged atomic and subatomic particles by an alternating electric field. More: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclotron
I believe the photo shows some non-operating part of the cyclotron, perhaps a support base.
Bob Chaparro


-- 
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts
Re: Photo: Cyclotron Load On C&NW Heavy Duty Flat Car 48053

Tim O'Connor
 

lol - maybe in New Zealand, but cutting and welding on gondolas and flat cars is
not uncommon in the USA

On 7/22/2019 6:09 AM, Paul Woods wrote:
I think the owner of the car would have some frank words to say about extra holes being cut in their property; it has been my experience that disaster follows close behind the guy who picks up a gas torch and starts hacking into structures, and cutting new holes would only be a last resort after every other possible method of securing the load had been tried.  If holes for holding-down bolts are not included as part of the original design, then lugs welded to the steel deck are often used, though usually not without the o.k. of the owner's engineering staff first.

Paul W
Whangarei, NZ
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*
Re: B&O Wagontop Boxcar

C J Wyatt
 

Thanks Chris, I appreciate that information. Have you done pattern making on anything else in S scale?

Jack Wyatt

On Monday, July 22, 2019, 10:02:44 AM EDT, bigfourroad <vannessco@...> wrote:


No the car was not produced because Jim King's one piece body casting
was far superior to ours. It is very difficult to get the ribs and the
roof-sides to mate perfectly and retain their shape uniformly unless
printed from CAD.

However, possibly the SMMW underframe is a little harder to get together
than this one would have been.

Chris

--
J Chris Rooney CFA
Vanness Company

Web: www.VannessCompany.com
Re: B&O Wagontop Boxcar

bigfourroad
 

No the car was not produced because Jim King's one piece body casting was far superior to ours. It is very difficult to get the ribs and the roof-sides to mate perfectly and retain their shape uniformly unless printed from CAD.

However, possibly the SMMW underframe is a little harder to get together than this one would have been.

Chris

--
J Chris Rooney CFA
Vanness Company

Web: www.VannessCompany.com
Re: Photo: Cyclotron Load On C&NW Heavy Duty Flat Car 48053

Daniel A. Mitchell
 

Another plastic Athearn “200-ton” flatcar clone was one from “Crown” … a whole line of Athearn rip-offs, obviously copies, but with cruder molding and the bodies were often warped.

In addition, somebody (Bachmann?) marketed a modified version of this car … same body but with a single 6-wheel truck under each end instead of the span-bolstered 4-wheel trucks.

Dan Mitchell
==========

On Jul 22, 2019, at 8:28 AM, Daniel A. Mitchell <danmitch@...> wrote:

Either running through holes cut in the deck, or welded to the deck. Most likely pass through the deck into some reinforcement (plate or bracket) welded to the underside of the deck, probably fastened to some under-deck frame member. The decks on such cars were somewhat “sacrificial”. They’d cut holes in them, or bolt or weld brackets, flanges, etc. to the top side as needed.

Once the car was empty this ‘junk” was sometimes just left in place. The next user of the car would then need to cut it off and install their own hardware. Even if the left-overs were removed, the deck would often show scarring from all the welds and cut-offs.
Steel floors in gondolas also suffered such indignities. Photos of “empty” cars often show such remains.

Dan Mitchell
==========

On Jul 21, 2019, at 7:12 PM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


I don't really care what it is, but I'd like to know what those heavy
steel rods are attached to on the deck of the flat car. Didn't those flats
have heavy steel floors? Are the rods bored into the deck?




On 7/21/2019 3:55 PM, Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io wrote:
Photo: Cyclotron Load On C&NW Heavy Duty Flat Car 48053
A 1946 photo:
Photo can be enlarged quite a bit.
Description: Loading the Cyclotron for Shipment.
A cyclotron is a device to accelerate charged atomic and subatomic particles by an alternating electric field. More: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclotron
I believe the photo shows some non-operating part of the cyclotron, perhaps a support base.
Bob Chaparro


-- 
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts
Re: Photo: Cyclotron Load On C&NW Heavy Duty Flat Car 48053

Daniel A. Mitchell
 

Either running through holes cut in the deck, or welded to the deck. Most likely pass through the deck into some reinforcement (plate or bracket) welded to the underside of the deck, probably fastened to some under-deck frame member. The decks on such cars were somewhat “sacrificial”. They’d cut holes in them, or bolt or weld brackets, flanges, etc. to the top side as needed.

Once the car was empty this ‘junk” was sometimes just left in place. The next user of the car would then need to cut it off and install their own hardware. Even if the left-overs were removed, the deck would often show scarring from all the welds and cut-offs.
Steel floors in gondolas also suffered such indignities. Photos of “empty” cars often show such remains.

Dan Mitchell
==========

On Jul 21, 2019, at 7:12 PM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


I don't really care what it is, but I'd like to know what those heavy
steel rods are attached to on the deck of the flat car. Didn't those flats
have heavy steel floors? Are the rods bored into the deck?




On 7/21/2019 3:55 PM, Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io wrote:
Photo: Cyclotron Load On C&NW Heavy Duty Flat Car 48053
A 1946 photo:
Photo can be enlarged quite a bit.
Description: Loading the Cyclotron for Shipment.
A cyclotron is a device to accelerate charged atomic and subatomic particles by an alternating electric field. More: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclotron
I believe the photo shows some non-operating part of the cyclotron, perhaps a support base.
Bob Chaparro


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: B&O Wagontop Boxcar

jc2fl
 

Here is a link to photos I took at the Florida Railroad Museum at Parrish FL.
Included are side, detail, and underframe photos of M-53 381538, M-15NA 374834, and M-15PD 376330

http://www.flickr.com/photos/b_and_o_boxcars



John Cantlay
Clearwater FL
ARA 1932 Matches for Atlas Body Styles

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Friends,

I did some work matching between Ed Hawkins' list from the old Steam-Era Freight Car pages ( http://www.steamerafreightcars.com/prototype/frtcars/1932aramain.html ) and the Atlas body list Don Burn provided. Below are the roads which more-or-less match the Atlas offerings. A number of odd combinations are missing here, including BAR, CG, NdeM, etc. which don't match any of the body styles. Also missing are some "short tab" (the tabs below the doors) cars with the 4/4 ends which would be an easy conversion, including the 5 ARA demos, three of which went to the C&O and one each to NYC and PRR. Need Duryea underframes? You're on your own.


Style #1 Long Tab Body,  Murphy Panel Roof, 4/4 Dreadnaught Ends:   CG, CRR, D&H, I-GN, MEC, MVCMCX/1, MP, M-I, NOT&M, UP/1, WM

Style #2 Long Tab Body,  11-Panel Flat Riveted Roof, Riveted Ends"  L&A, NC&STL, SAL, WRT

Style #3 Short Tab Body, Hutchins Radial Roof, 4/4 Dreadnaught End:  C&O, NKP

Style #4 Short Tab Body, Viking Corrugated Roof, Buckeye ends  ERIE

Style #5 Long Tab Body,  11-Panel Flat Rivet Roof, 4/4 Dreadnaught Ends SOO

Style #6 Long Tab Body,  Viking Corrugated Roof, 4/4 Dreadnaught Ends  NS

Style #7 Long Tab Body,  Murphy Panel Roof, Flat Riveted Ends  NONE THAT I CAN FIND


I'm sure I missed something and I will hear about it shortly.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff
Re: Photo: Cyclotron Load On C&NW Heavy Duty Flat Car 48053

Bruce Smith
 

Gary,


The plastic model was/is the Athearn. It has some serious issues, especially with the vertical dimension of the body being grossly too big. There is a resin model of this car in HO scale from F&C. The PRR F34 was a GSC cast body that was sold to multiple railroads including C&NW. 


Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of gary laakso <vasa0vasa@...>
Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2019 7:59 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Cyclotron Load On C&NW Heavy Duty Flat Car 48053
 
There was a plastic model of this car, maybe 40 years ago.  It could have been AHM.

Gary Laakso
Northwest of Mike Brock


On Jul 21, 2019, at 5:54 PM, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:

Tim,


The steel floor of these cars likely had holes for rods used as tie downs. Some steel floored flat cars had holes that were essentially a larger diameter circle partially superimposed on a smaller circle. The rod with either a bent end or a bolt on the end, could be fitted through the large hole and then slid over into the smaller hole, resulting in the rod being retained by the deck.


Regards,

Bruce

Bruce Smith



From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2019 6:12 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Cyclotron Load On C&NW Heavy Duty Flat Car 48053
 

I don't really care what it is, but I'd like to know what those heavy
steel rods are attached to on the deck of the flat car. Didn't those flats
have heavy steel floors? Are the rods bored into the deck?




On 7/21/2019 3:55 PM, Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io wrote:

Photo: Cyclotron Load On C&NW Heavy Duty Flat Car 48053

A 1946 photo:

https://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3A943.84664.GN/viewer

Photo can be enlarged quite a bit.

Description: Loading the Cyclotron for Shipment.

A cyclotron is a device to accelerate charged atomic and subatomic particles by an alternating electric field. More: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclotron

I believe the photo shows some non-operating part of the cyclotron, perhaps a support base.

Bob Chaparro



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: Photo: Cyclotron Load On C&NW Heavy Duty Flat Car 48053

Paul Woods
 

I think the owner of the car would have some frank words to say about extra holes being cut in their property; it has been my experience that disaster follows close behind the guy who picks up a gas torch and starts hacking into structures, and cutting new holes would only be a last resort after every other possible method of securing the load had been tried.  If holes for holding-down bolts are not included as part of the original design, then lugs welded to the steel deck are often used, though usually not without the o.k. of the owner's engineering staff first.

Paul W
Whangarei, NZ
Re: Photo: Cyclotron Load On C&NW Heavy Duty Flat Car 48053

Tony Thompson
 

Both are correct.  The car more recently in the Bachmann line was offeted by AHM.  Tooling dates back to the Mantua carded blisterpack RTR copies of various Athearn cars. 

   And before that there was essentially the same car as a kit from M. Dale Newton's Red Ball.

Tony Thompson
Re: B&O Wagontop Boxcar

C J Wyatt
 

Was a kit produced from your patterns? I believe Jim King at SMMW offered a M53/M53A in S scale.

Jack Wyatt

On Sunday, July 21, 2019, 09:54:09 PM EDT, bigfourroad <vannessco@...> wrote:


Ed here are a series of photos that show patterns and arrangement that I
made for an M 53 in S scale.  I hope they will help to orient the parts
for you.

What is not featured here is a Royal (brake) slack adjuster that appears
midway along the car.  I have some photos of that from the car at the
B&O museum if useful to you.

Chris Rooney

--
J Chris Rooney CFA
Vanness Company

Web: www.VannessCompany.com