Date   

Re: Sources for machinist/watchmaker-quality small twist drills redux

Paul Doggett
 

Beeswax is a good lubricant for the smaller sizes down to number 80.

Paul Doggett England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 


On 24 Jul 2019, at 23:19, Curt Fortenberry <curtfortenberry@...> wrote:


I buy the micro drills off ebay, the ones with the larger shank, usually with a size coded color ring.  They say used but all the ones I've bought have been sharp.  I've never had one break in plastic.  The only time I break one is in a resin part, even with lubrication.  I've bought multi size sets, but now buy the bulk sets of the size I break the most.

Curt Fortenberry


Re: Sources for machinist/watchmaker-quality small twist drills redux

Matt Goodman
 

Another thumbs-up for McMaster-Carr. They often don’t list brand names on their website, but the bits they’ve shipped to me have all been from Richards Micro Tool (a U.S. made product, if that’s important to you).

The bits I’ve received all have 1mm shanks, necking down to the drilling diameter. The cut depth is about 3mm (.11”), so they won’t be useful if you need more reach. Material is cobalt steel, and have withstood some rough handling (I did get cocky and broke one drilling hand-held nickel-silver rail with a pin vice).

They’re all metric dimensions, though McMaster-Carr provides decimal equivalents (no wire gauge listed). Expensive and probably overkill (they’re intended for tough metals), but they should stay sharp forever. Oh, and almost all tooling I’ve purchased from McMaster come in tough zip-lock bags - very reusable.


You also can’t go wrong with Pierre’s MSC suggestion.

Matt Goodman
Columbus, Ohio, US

On Jul 24, 2019, at 8:14 PM, Ralph W. Brown <rbrown51@...> wrote:

Hi Denny,
 
I’ve yet to read to other replies, but my “go to’ for things like that is McMaster-Carr (https://mcmaster.com/drill-bits).  I’m particularly fond of the uncoated cobalt steel wire gauge bits.  I recently purchased a new HHS 2-56 taps from them as well, and it is far superior to any others I’ve seen or used in that size.  Service has always been excellent as well.
 
Pax,
  
 
Ralph Brown
Portland, Maine
PRRT&HS No. 3966
NMRA No. L2532

rbrown51[at]maine[dot]rr[dot]com
 
From: Denny Anspach
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2019 4:39 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Sources for machinist/watchmaker-quality small twist drills redux
 
My most hateful modeling chore is locating and drilling for grabs and handrails, etc. I machine drill when i can with carbide drills, but practically,  most have to be done by hand; and I am totally frustrated by the sheer plethora of dull #78-80 twist drills that seem to be endlessly supplied to us by almost all usual hobby vendors. This morning, after a failure to adequately be able to hand drill through some tough plastic (#79), I tossed the errant drill in favor of a new one, also from a popular hobby supplier.  The new one could not cut butter either, and in the attempt to do so actually  bent over (did..not..break!) at a right angle like bending a wire!  Now, I do have a large supply of sharp (and brittle) carbide tip drills, but they are too risky to use with hand drilling- as you all already know.

So....where do you all find high quality reliably sharp tiny twist drills, most favorably from American, German, Swiss, or Japanese origins?

Denny 


Re: Sources for machinist/watchmaker-quality small twist drills redux

Ralph W. Brown
 

Hi Denny,
 
I’ve yet to read to other replies, but my “go to’ for things like that is McMaster-Carr (https://mcmaster.com/drill-bits).  I’m particularly fond of the uncoated cobalt steel wire gauge bits.  I recently purchased a new HHS 2-56 taps from them as well, and it is far superior to any others I’ve seen or used in that size.  Service has always been excellent as well.
 
Pax,
  
 
Ralph Brown
Portland, Maine
PRRT&HS No. 3966
NMRA No. L2532

rbrown51[at]maine[dot]rr[dot]com
 

From: Denny Anspach
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2019 4:39 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Sources for machinist/watchmaker-quality small twist drills redux
 
My most hateful modeling chore is locating and drilling for grabs and handrails, etc. I machine drill when i can with carbide drills, but practically,  most have to be done by hand; and I am totally frustrated by the sheer plethora of dull #78-80 twist drills that seem to be endlessly supplied to us by almost all usual hobby vendors. This morning, after a failure to adequately be able to hand drill through some tough plastic (#79), I tossed the errant drill in favor of a new one, also from a popular hobby supplier.  The new one could not cut butter either, and in the attempt to do so actually  bent over (did..not..break!) at a right angle like bending a wire!  Now, I do have a large supply of sharp (and brittle) carbide tip drills, but they are too risky to use with hand drilling- as you all already know.

So....where do you all find high quality reliably sharp tiny twist drills, most favorably from American, German, Swiss, or Japanese origins?

Denny 


Tank Car Info

Roger Huber <trainpainter@...>
 

I need some info on these tank cars used by Mangels-Herald Co. in Baltimore, MD. They were the makers of King Syrup and I assume they used these cars to haul corn syrup. I was told there were 2 identical cars. What color were they? It looks like lettering may be red with the vertical band and lower tank black. The body is a question. White? Yellow? Tan?
Any info would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
oldline1


Drill Bits: Pivot, Pearl & Bur - Jeweler's Burs (Frasers)

Gene Deimling
 

https://www.ishor.com/jeweler-burs-frasers/drill-bits-pivot-pearl-and-bur

https://www.esslinger.com/mascot-flat-pivot-drills-004-050-sold-individually/

Here are two companies that I have purchased both flat and twist drill bits from. I have found that their bits are good quality and sharp.

Gene Deimling


Re: Sources for machinist/watchmaker-quality small twist drills redux

Jack Burgess
 

Drill Bit City is on eBay…

 

Jack Burgess

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of steve_wintner via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2019 3:16 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Sources for machinist/watchmaker-quality small twist drills redux

 

A long time ago I found a stock of spade drills - watchmakers drills, if i recall correctly - on eBay. Hundreds, in little tins of like 12 each. They certainly are sharp, came in a variety of sizes (.010, .013, .014, etc) etc. I've not used them on steel but they go through brass and styrene just fine in a pin vise.

I'll admit i had doubts about the roundness, clean cut, and size of the result. But they work just fine, and are more durable than tiny twist drills.

This sort of thing : https://www.esslinger.com/mascot-flat-pivot-drills-004-050-sold-individually/ 

You may want to see if you can find an economical source and try them.

Steve


Re: Sources for machinist/watchmaker-quality small twist drills redux

Curt Fortenberry
 


I buy the micro drills off ebay, the ones with the larger shank, usually with a size coded color ring.  They say used but all the ones I've bought have been sharp.  I've never had one break in plastic.  The only time I break one is in a resin part, even with lubrication.  I've bought multi size sets, but now buy the bulk sets of the size I break the most.

Curt Fortenberry


Re: Sources for machinist/watchmaker-quality small twist drills redux

steve_wintner
 

A long time ago I found a stock of spade drills - watchmakers drills, if i recall correctly - on eBay. Hundreds, in little tins of like 12 each. They certainly are sharp, came in a variety of sizes (.010, .013, .014, etc) etc. I've not used them on steel but they go through brass and styrene just fine in a pin vise.

I'll admit i had doubts about the roundness, clean cut, and size of the result. But they work just fine, and are more durable than tiny twist drills.

This sort of thing : https://www.esslinger.com/mascot-flat-pivot-drills-004-050-sold-individually/ 

You may want to see if you can find an economical source and try them.

Steve


Re: Sources for machinist/watchmaker-quality small twist drills redux

Pierre Oliver
 

Denny,

Try these guys. More drill its than you'll ever want to know about
https://www.mscdirect.com/browse/tn/Holemaking/Drilling-Drill-Bits/Metalworking-Multipurpose-Drill-Bits/Micro-Drill-Bits?navid=12106217

Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com
On 7/24/19 4:39 p.m., Denny Anspach wrote:

My most hateful modeling chore is locating and drilling for grabs and handrails, etc. I machine drill when i can with carbide drills, but practically,  most have to be done by hand; and I am totally frustrated by the sheer plethora of dull #78-80 twist drills that seem to be endlessly supplied to us by almost all usual hobby vendors. This morning, after a failure to adequately be able to hand drill through some tough plastic (#79), I tossed the errant drill in favor of a new one, also from a popular hobby supplier.  The new one could not cut butter either, and in the attempt to do so actually  bent over (did..not..break!) at a right angle like bending a wire!  Now, I do have a large supply of sharp (and brittle) carbide tip drills, but they are too risky to use with hand drilling- as you all already know.

So....where do you all find high quality reliably sharp tiny twist drills, most favorably from American, German, Swiss, or Japanese origins?

Denny 


Re: freight car paint schemes was:[RealSTMFC] Funaro 1932 CP Boxcar

Eric Lombard
 

Thanks for your good “review” Charlie. I appreciate your interest.

Perhaps you might like an export of the full timeline which includes 1600 entries ranging from brakes to underframes. Same caveats: data entry has been casual and it focus is on box cars. It’s yours for whatever feedback you might be motivated to offer.

I’m interested in your mention of cut-off date. I assume this means the date of your modeling and things— paint schemes, car series, appliances, etc, —that occur in the future are avoided. If I have this right there is a modestly developed aspect of the box car database that allows export of active car series by presidential election year, that is every four years 1892-1980. The bulk of the needed data entries are clumped between 1912-1960 for cars built, rebuilt, or renumbered between 1910-1944. Send me your cut-off date and I’ll see what comes up for the nearest preceding and post-ceding vote date. I’ve not tried this function before, having been focused on data entry—the function’s value increases with each datum. Whatever comes out will not be complete but will be informative at some level. 
Cheers,
Eric


Re: Sources for machinist/watchmaker-quality small twist drills redux

Jack Burgess
 

Denny…

 

I’ve been buying from Drill Bit City for years. Their website is a little hard to navigate so I bookmarked the two types of drill bits that I use:

 

Regular small drill bits:

https://drillcity.stores.yahoo.net/highspeedtools.html

 

Carbide small drill bits:

https://drillcity.stores.yahoo.net/10wirsizpac8.html

 

Jack Burgess

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Denny Anspach
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2019 1:39 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Sources for machinist/watchmaker-quality small twist drills redux

 

My most hateful modeling chore is locating and drilling for grabs and handrails, etc. I machine drill when i can with carbide drills, but practically,  most have to be done by hand; and I am totally frustrated by the sheer plethora of dull #78-80 twist drills that seem to be endlessly supplied to us by almost all usual hobby vendors. This morning, after a failure to adequately be able to hand drill through some tough plastic (#79), I tossed the errant drill in favor of a new one, also from a popular hobby supplier.  The new one could not cut butter either, and in the attempt to do so actually  bent over (did..not..break!) at a right angle like bending a wire!  Now, I do have a large supply of sharp (and brittle) carbide tip drills, but they are too risky to use with hand drilling- as you all already know.

So....where do you all find high quality reliably sharp tiny twist drills, most favorably from American, German, Swiss, or Japanese origins?

Denny 


Re: Sources for machinist/watchmaker-quality small twist drills redux

anthony wagner
 

On Wednesday, July 24, 2019, 3:39:13 PM CDT, Denny Anspach <danspachmd@...> wrote:


My most hateful modeling chore is locating and drilling for grabs and handrails, etc. I machine drill when i can with carbide drills, but practically,  most have to be done by hand; and I am totally frustrated by the sheer plethora of dull #78-80 twist drills that seem to be endlessly supplied to us by almost all usual hobby vendors. This morning, after a failure to adequately be able to hand drill through some tough plastic (#79), I tossed the errant drill in favor of a new one, also from a popular hobby supplier.  The new one could not cut butter either, and in the attempt to do so actually  bent over (did..not..break!) at a right angle like bending a wire!  Now, I do have a large supply of sharp (and brittle) carbide tip drills, but they are too risky to use with hand drilling- as you all already know.

So....where do you all find high quality reliably sharp tiny twist drills, most favorably from American, German, Swiss, or Japanese origins?

Denny 


Sources for machinist/watchmaker-quality small twist drills redux

Denny Anspach <danspachmd@...>
 

My most hateful modeling chore is locating and drilling for grabs and handrails, etc. I machine drill when i can with carbide drills, but practically,  most have to be done by hand; and I am totally frustrated by the sheer plethora of dull #78-80 twist drills that seem to be endlessly supplied to us by almost all usual hobby vendors. This morning, after a failure to adequately be able to hand drill through some tough plastic (#79), I tossed the errant drill in favor of a new one, also from a popular hobby supplier.  The new one could not cut butter either, and in the attempt to do so actually  bent over (did..not..break!) at a right angle like bending a wire!  Now, I do have a large supply of sharp (and brittle) carbide tip drills, but they are too risky to use with hand drilling- as you all already know.

So....where do you all find high quality reliably sharp tiny twist drills, most favorably from American, German, Swiss, or Japanese origins?

Denny 


Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Depressed center flats

Brian Carlson
 

It was brand new at the Greensburg show in March.

Brian J. Carlson

On Jul 24, 2019, at 1:42 PM, Tony Thompson <tony@signaturepress.com> wrote:

Ralph Brown wrote:

F&C now also offers an F28 and an F34. I bought one of each at the NE Proto
meet last month. I've to open either box, but they're anything like the
P&LE F-7, they should be very nice.
I don't see the F-7 on the F&C web page. Is it brand new?

Tony Thompson
tony@signaturepress.com






Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Depressed center flats

Ralph W. Brown
 

Hi Tony,

Yes, I think so. It's kit number 8480. I didn't find it on their website either, but I have one underway.

Pax,


Ralph Brown
Portland, Maine
PRRT&HS No. 3966
NMRA No. L2532

rbrown51[at]maine[dot]rr[dot]com

-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Thompson
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2019 1:42 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Depressed center flats

Ralph Brown wrote:

F&C now also offers an F28 and an F34. I bought one of each at the NE Proto
meet last month. I've to open either box, but they're anything like the
P&LE F-7, they should be very nice.
I don't see the F-7 on the F&C web page. Is it brand new?

Tony Thompson
tony@signaturepress.com


Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Depressed center flats

Tony Thompson
 

Ralph Brown wrote:

F&C now also offers an F28 and an F34. I bought one of each at the NE Proto
meet last month. I've to open either box, but they're anything like the
P&LE F-7, they should be very nice.
I don't see the F-7 on the F&C web page. Is it brand new?

Tony Thompson
tony@signaturepress.com


Re: Workbench Wednesday

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Eric,

Is this a Pullman lightweight car?

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 7/24/19 7:03 AM, Eric Hansmann wrote:

We take a peek at something on Frank Hodina's workbench in the latest Resin Car Works blog post.

http://blog.resincarworks.com/workbench-wednesday-25/



Eric Hansmann
RCW web guy



Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Depressed center flats

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Ralph;

Good to know.

I took my F25 out of the box, and it is, indeed, VERY nice. F&C has stepped up their game.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ralph W. Brown
Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2019 11:55 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Depressed center flats

Hi Elden, et al.,

F&C now also offers an F28 and an F34. I bought one of each at the NE Proto
meet last month. I've to open either box, but they're anything like the
P&LE F-7, they should be very nice.

Pax,


Ralph Brown
Portland, Maine
PRRT&HS No. 3966
NMRA No. L2532

rbrown51[at]maine[dot]rr[dot]com
-----Original Message-----
From: Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2019 2:48 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Depressed center flats

Ron;

I never finished my draft of who owned what (and it did change dramatically
over time), but I started with the section called "heavy capacity and
special type flat cars" (in my case p.972-977 of the ORER of Jan 1964). My
intention was to put together as complete a list as possible. With
kits/models.

Just as an example of kits, F&C does the B&M well flat with load (a very
nice kit), F&C also does PRR F25 now (whoopee!), F29, F33 in resin, and also
the P&LE F-7 six-axle with all-new sideframes.

Railworks did, with a little help, the PRR's F25, F28, F29, F31, F33, F34,
F35, F36, F37/37A/37B, F42, F43, F44, and FD-1; heavy duty or "special"
(well, well hole, etc.) flats. The GSC cast steel PRR flats were F30A,
F30D, F34, F41/41A/41B (IIRC), F42, F43, F44 and F38??, FD1

Tangent has done a RTR PRR F47 and other HD GSC 60' flats. As always, VERY
nice.

E&P did a GSC 6-axle that several roads bought, but I'd have to go through
the ORER to make a guess on who. They varied in deck length, deck height
and other dimensions.

Rail Classics and Alco, also did the F38 (former), and "Queen Mary" 16-axle,
all very heavy duty.

Eastern Car Works did a NYC cast steel flat, that needs a lot of love.

Walthers and Tichy have done the 52' "Commonwealth" flats, though they both
also need some work.

Red Ball did, once upon a time, a pot metal and wood PRR "f25", P&LE "heavy
duty", and at least one more.

The brass cars are hard to find, but keep trying, especially on estate sales
and big brass sellers.

And if someone doesn't find THIS cool, they are dead.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf
Of mopacfirst
Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2019 1:00 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Depressed center flats

Now for something completely different on the subject of heavy duty flats.

Thanks to the groups.io search function, I found a message by Elden Gatwood
(43018) from 2005, plus 24 replies. Long after they were produced, I
learned about the Railworks brass flatcars, which this message discusses,
and I had forgotten or never knew that E&P Associates had also made some
brass flatcar models.

I'm thinking specifically of the GSC six-axle flatcars, and I believe there
is a rundown of which railroads owned the different versions of that car but
I haven't found the reference yet. I've been haunting eBay and
brasstrains.com, waiting to see one come up, but I'm not entirely sure what
I would be looking for until I see it. My interest is specifically in the
two MP ones. There was a flat-deck one also, cast steel, but it was quite
different from the F34 with two three-axle trucks and a longer center
section.

Ron Merrick


Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Depressed center flats

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Schuyler;

I saw one painted for Erie at one point. Given their giant clearances, they got a lot of H&W loads.

Yeah, most brass trucks are cr@p. I routinely replace them on cars I run, with plastic equivalent with good wheelsets.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Schuyler Larrabee via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2019 11:58 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Depressed center flats

E&P did two flats (at least) that are good for ERIE. I have a "General Steel Industries 58' Depressed Center Car" that's not painted, and I also have another E&P car that IS painted . . . somewhere. My collection is somewhat randomly stored being between residences. I will look for t'other one.

The 58' car has six-wheel trucks that unfortunately do not roll well. Actually, don't roll worth a damn.

Schuyler

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2019 2:49 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Depressed center flats

Ron;

I never finished my draft of who owned what (and it did change dramatically over time), but I started with the section called "heavy capacity and special type flat cars" (in my case p.972-977 of the ORER of Jan 1964). My intention was to put together as complete a list as possible. With kits/models.

Just as an example of kits, F&C does the B&M well flat with load (a very nice kit), F&C also does PRR F25 now (whoopee!), F29, F33 in resin, and also the P&LE F-7 six-axle with all-new sideframes.

Railworks did, with a little help, the PRR's F25, F28, F29, F31, F33, F34, F35, F36, F37/37A/37B, F42, F43, F44, and FD-1; heavy duty or "special" (well, well hole, etc.) flats. The GSC cast steel PRR flats were F30A, F30D, F34, F41/41A/41B (IIRC), F42, F43, F44 and F38??, FD1

Tangent has done a RTR PRR F47 and other HD GSC 60' flats. As always, VERY nice.

E&P did a GSC 6-axle that several roads bought, but I'd have to go through the ORER to make a guess on who. They varied in deck length, deck height and other dimensions.

Rail Classics and Alco, also did the F38 (former), and "Queen Mary" 16-axle, all very heavy duty.

Eastern Car Works did a NYC cast steel flat, that needs a lot of love.

Walthers and Tichy have done the 52' "Commonwealth" flats, though they both also need some work.

Red Ball did, once upon a time, a pot metal and wood PRR "f25", P&LE "heavy duty", and at least one more.

The brass cars are hard to find, but keep trying, especially on estate sales and big brass sellers.

And if someone doesn't find THIS cool, they are dead.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of mopacfirst
Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2019 1:00 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Depressed center flats

Now for something completely different on the subject of heavy duty flats.

Thanks to the groups.io search function, I found a message by Elden Gatwood (43018) from 2005, plus 24 replies. Long after they were produced, I learned about the Railworks brass flatcars, which this message discusses, and I had forgotten or never knew that E&P Associates had also made some brass flatcar models.

I'm thinking specifically of the GSC six-axle flatcars, and I believe there is a rundown of which railroads owned the different versions of that car but I haven't found the reference yet. I've been haunting eBay and brasstrains.com, waiting to see one come up, but I'm not entirely sure what I would be looking for until I see it. My interest is specifically in the two MP ones. There was a flat-deck one also, cast steel, but it was quite different from the F34 with two three-axle trucks and a longer center section.

Ron Merrick


Workbench Wednesday

Eric Hansmann
 

We take a peek at something on Frank Hodina's workbench in the latest Resin Car Works blog post.

http://blog.resincarworks.com/workbench-wednesday-25/



Eric Hansmann
RCW web guy

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