Date   
Re: Trouble shooting a freight car

Jared Harper
 

















thanks!

Jared







Re: Trouble shooting a freight car

Jared Harper
 

Yes.

Re: Metal Wheels

Alexander Schneider Jr
 

I just ordered three packages of direct replacement metal wheelsets from Bowser. Item 40198, $20.

Alex Schneider

On Wed, Aug 7, 2019 at 11:05 AM, Tim O'Connor
<timboconnor@...> wrote:

TICHY sells nylon journal bearing inserts that will allow
you to use much shorter axles. You drill/ream the sideframe
to take the insert. They work great with old brass trucks with
straight (not tapered) journals.

Tim O'Connor



On 8/7/2019 7:47 AM, Mark Stamm wrote:

The NMRA practice is what has me in a pickle. I have tons of Bowser H21 hoppers; my primary interest is the PRR. Those plastic wheels have to go and to my knowledge only Reboxx makes replacement sets in the 1.035 length. Any other wheel set I have tried has to much slop side to side. 

Mark P Stamm

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: CV 41000-41499

James SANDIFER
 

I have photos of this car also if you need them.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dave Parker via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, August 6, 2019 12:47 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] CV 41000-41499

 

Brian:

There is  a surviving car -- 41146 -- in Gorham, NH.  If you Google it, you will likely find some photos on the WWW.  If not, I can can send you some of mine.  It does not have  a running board.  I have three photos with 1960-61 reweigh dates, and they all show wooden running boards.

AFAIK, all 500 cars were built with the end doors, as there is nothing to contradict this in the ORERs.

The CSF trucks have three visible springs (probably a 6-spring package), but the cars were only rated at 85,000 lbs, so they were nominally 50-ton trucks.  I have never seen one with any type of replacement truck, and I am not aware of an exact match for the originals in HO

As an aside, the Pressed Steel builder's photo for this series shows a lever-style handbrake, although the later pictures all show Ajax.  I'm afraid I have no idea as to when they were refitted, but Marty McGuirk might.

Last, I cannot reexamine my F&C kit until tomorrow evening, but my notes on it suggest that the Hutchins roof may not be 100% accurate.  The Sylvan (now Yarmouth) Hutchins roof might offer a fix if you feel like doing some bashing.  I have not yet undertaken my copy of the kit, so am not sure exactly what would be involved.

Hope this helps, but feel free to contact me off-list at spottab at yahoo dot com if you would like some better photos than what came with your kit.

Best regards,

Dave Parker
Riverside, CA

Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Less Than Carload Shipments

Dennis Storzek
 

On Wed, Aug 7, 2019 at 09:44 AM, Tim O'Connor wrote:
Mike, I don't think Dennis meant it died instantly. It was a slow death. ;-)

As Dennis noted, and I think he may be right, railroads could not opt out without
cause until after the Staggers Act took effect. (It took years to be fully in effect.)
Tim has that exactly right. I didn't mean to imply that the scene changed overnight, but that the die was cast at the end of WWII when the ICC didn't object to substituting highway haulage to serve all the far flung rural stations. Much more efficient to have one driver spend the day loading and unloading packages than the five man local crew spending the time.

It is interesting to note from Doug's M&StL photos how initially the roads wanted the contractor's trucks to look like railroad owned equipment, even though it was only hired. The Soo Line also did this; the Gross Common Carriers equipment used in Wisconsin were painted orabge and maroon with large Soo Line "dollar sign" heralds and the slogan "THE ROAD OF SERVICE" the length of the trailer. I believe the tractors also carried heralds on the doors. Can't find a pic on the web, but did fine these listings for items in the holdings of the Minneapolis Historical Society: 

40-39-b: Wisconsin Central: Gross Common Carrier Lease of 50 Trailers to Wisconsin Central, 1956-1961.
40-39-c: LCL Handled in Piggy-back Operations by ...

Also This item:
12-1-2: Athens Branch - Study of Substitution Truck Service, 1945.

That's right as the war was ending. My point was the classic look of LCL operation, the route car handled in the local freights, was quickly going the way of the dodo, starting immediately after the end of WWII.

Dennis Storzek

Re: Less Than Carload Shipments

Tim O'Connor
 


Just to note - freight houses are not exclusively for LCL. A new small freight house
was built in Grafton MA in the 1990's for the Grafton & Upton right off Conrail's main
line. It was built for rail to truck transfers. The G&U has gradually expanded services
at that location and is very active today.

Tim O'Connor


On 8/8/2019 9:46 AM, William Hirt wrote:

I've watching this with interest. There used to be a Yahoo Group called LCL_Ops_Modeling, but I have not seen any traffic for sometime.

Randy Williamson had a web site that had lots of good LCL info, but I see it is no longer available.

I've attached two Excel files that Randy created with input from various members of the LCL list. One is interline LCL traffic during the 1940s and the second being interline LCL traffic in the 1950s. The CB&Q built a new freight house in North Kansas City in the early 1960's, so there were still railroads that were into LCL during the late periods of this list even though it was obvious to management such traffic was going away.

Bill Hirt

On 8/5/2019 7:07 PM, Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io wrote:
Appreciating that there may still be some less-than-carload business on the rails, when were the railroads substantially out of the LCL business?
Thanks.
Bob Chaparro

_._,_._

Attachments:



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Less Than Carload Shipments

Tim O'Connor
 


We tend to forget about the complex regulatory climate before Staggers.
Not only the ICC - which strictly regulated INTER-STATE rail and truck services,
but every state's "Public Utility Commission" regulated INTRA-STATE transportation.
Trucking companies regularly sued railroads that they perceived as enchroaching on
their territory. If you ever study the various "plans" that existed for piggyback
service by the late 1950's, you find out that some piggyback plans could be used
between state A and state B, but not between state A and state C. I'm certain that
coordinated railway-truck service was equally messy.

Tim O'Connor




On 8/7/2019 11:20 PM, James SANDIFER wrote:

What I see is that short distant LCL was hauled by truck, but long distance remained on rail through the 1960s. Santa Fe advertised their LCL business as coordinated rail-truck. All service by the Santa Fe to Denver, El Paso, Topeka, Tulsa, and Wichita was coordinated rail-truck by 1946. The Interstate highway system was not yet developed in the 50s.

St. Joseph’s Traffic (Missouri)

 

St. Joseph, Missouri, north of Kansas City, was the end of the line for Santa Fe. It was also a major livestock destination for the railroad. I have records prepared by the ATSF comparing March, 1939, with March, 1945, to show the benefits of combined rail-truck L. C. L. service.

St. Joseph was a minor freight house which, in 1939, shipped 7 merchandise rail cars directly to other freight houses in Atchison, Topeka, Emporia, Hutchinson, Wichita, Arkansas City, and Kansas City. A total of 218 cars were shipped in March, 1939. In March, 1945, that number had been reduced to 10 special cars due to the use of Santa Fe Trail Transportation. In addition, cargo was delivered much faster.

One of the examples given was Emporia. In 1939, Emporia was the regional hub which provided l.c.l. forwarding for the Superior and Osborne lines, Howard branch, Little River, Galatia branch, Newton and stations up to but not including Hutchinson. Merchandise for the area serviced by Emporia would leave St. Joseph in the evening and arrive first morning in Emporia. It then had to be sorted for other points, providing 2nd day delivery to many. Since some lines only received tri-weekly service, like the Howard branch, this often meant 3rd day delivery for a distance of only 150 miles. In 1945 all traffic out of St. Joseph was handled by truck. 155 of the 177 routes had a one day improvement in delivery. 15 had a two day improvement. Only 7 saw no improvement with the use of coordinate rail-truck shipments.

 

The MP Eagle Merchandise Service began in 1951 as did the B&O Timesaver. Santa Fe built a new freight depot at Corwith in 1952 with a capacity of 156 cars. This was in addition to two other Santa Fe freight houses at Corwith – total capacity of 392 cars. Santa Fe built a new freight house at Argentine in 1959, so there was still an active desire to handle LCL, but in coordinated truck-rail through the 60s.

 

Santa Fe exited the LCL business in 1972 and all freight houses were retired.

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Wednesday, August 7, 2019 3:33 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Less Than Carload Shipments

 


According to this web site, the Pacific Electric ceased all RAIL LCL in 1952,
and transferred the service to trucks (e.g. Pacific Motor Transport). Someone
here mentioned using LCL rather late, it taking a month to cross the country,
and suspecting it was all done by truck. That sounds right to me. The SP embraced
intermodal by the early 1950's and Overnight trains had lots of piggyback trailers
even before the end of steam operations.

http://www.elserenohistoricalsociety.org/P___E_RR.php

Tim O'Connor



On 8/7/2019 3:13 PM, C J Wyatt wrote:

If something was completely hopeless, you could get a favorable ICC decision. With LCL, I think that happened long before the Staggers Act. I never came across any railroad operated LCL operations in the seventies during my railroad career.

 

Jack Wyatt



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: Less Than Carload Shipments

William Hirt
 

I've watching this with interest. There used to be a Yahoo Group called LCL_Ops_Modeling, but I have not seen any traffic for sometime.

Randy Williamson had a web site that had lots of good LCL info, but I see it is no longer available.

I've attached two Excel files that Randy created with input from various members of the LCL list. One is interline LCL traffic during the 1940s and the second being interline LCL traffic in the 1950s. The CB&Q built a new freight house in North Kansas City in the early 1960's, so there were still railroads that were into LCL during the late periods of this list even though it was obvious to management such traffic was going away.

Bill Hirt

On 8/5/2019 7:07 PM, Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io wrote:
Appreciating that there may still be some less-than-carload business on the rails, when were the railroads substantially out of the LCL business?
Thanks.
Bob Chaparro

_._,_._

Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Less Than Carload Shipments

James SANDIFER
 

What I see is that short distant LCL was hauled by truck, but long distance remained on rail through the 1960s. Santa Fe advertised their LCL business as coordinated rail-truck. All service by the Santa Fe to Denver, El Paso, Topeka, Tulsa, and Wichita was coordinated rail-truck by 1946. The Interstate highway system was not yet developed in the 50s.

St. Joseph’s Traffic (Missouri)

 

St. Joseph, Missouri, north of Kansas City, was the end of the line for Santa Fe. It was also a major livestock destination for the railroad. I have records prepared by the ATSF comparing March, 1939, with March, 1945, to show the benefits of combined rail-truck L. C. L. service.

St. Joseph was a minor freight house which, in 1939, shipped 7 merchandise rail cars directly to other freight houses in Atchison, Topeka, Emporia, Hutchinson, Wichita, Arkansas City, and Kansas City. A total of 218 cars were shipped in March, 1939. In March, 1945, that number had been reduced to 10 special cars due to the use of Santa Fe Trail Transportation. In addition, cargo was delivered much faster.

One of the examples given was Emporia. In 1939, Emporia was the regional hub which provided l.c.l. forwarding for the Superior and Osborne lines, Howard branch, Little River, Galatia branch, Newton and stations up to but not including Hutchinson. Merchandise for the area serviced by Emporia would leave St. Joseph in the evening and arrive first morning in Emporia. It then had to be sorted for other points, providing 2nd day delivery to many. Since some lines only received tri-weekly service, like the Howard branch, this often meant 3rd day delivery for a distance of only 150 miles. In 1945 all traffic out of St. Joseph was handled by truck. 155 of the 177 routes had a one day improvement in delivery. 15 had a two day improvement. Only 7 saw no improvement with the use of coordinate rail-truck shipments.

 

The MP Eagle Merchandise Service began in 1951 as did the B&O Timesaver. Santa Fe built a new freight depot at Corwith in 1952 with a capacity of 156 cars. This was in addition to two other Santa Fe freight houses at Corwith – total capacity of 392 cars. Santa Fe built a new freight house at Argentine in 1959, so there was still an active desire to handle LCL, but in coordinated truck-rail through the 60s.

 

Santa Fe exited the LCL business in 1972 and all freight houses were retired.

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Wednesday, August 7, 2019 3:33 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Less Than Carload Shipments

 


According to this web site, the Pacific Electric ceased all RAIL LCL in 1952,
and transferred the service to trucks (e.g. Pacific Motor Transport). Someone
here mentioned using LCL rather late, it taking a month to cross the country,
and suspecting it was all done by truck. That sounds right to me. The SP embraced
intermodal by the early 1950's and Overnight trains had lots of piggyback trailers
even before the end of steam operations.

http://www.elserenohistoricalsociety.org/P___E_RR.php

Tim O'Connor



On 8/7/2019 3:13 PM, C J Wyatt wrote:

If something was completely hopeless, you could get a favorable ICC decision. With LCL, I think that happened long before the Staggers Act. I never came across any railroad operated LCL operations in the seventies during my railroad career.

 

Jack Wyatt

 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: WTB- Unbuilt Sunshine Rr-46 74.13 or 74.14

Scott
 

The kit has been located.

Thank you!
Scott McDonald

WTB- Unbuilt Sunshine Rr-46 74.13 or 74.14

Scott
 

Looking to buy an unstarted Sunshine Rr-46 kit.  I don't mind which one it is of the two.  Please reply off list.

Thank you 
Scott McDonald

Re: I believe this is an Armour reefer - can anyone confirm or refute?

Douglas Harding
 

Most likely an early Armour P/L scheme. See attached photo.

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of al_brown03
Sent: Wednesday, August 7, 2019 4:23 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] I believe this is an Armour reefer - can anyone confirm or refute?

 

Left of the door looks to me like "Armour" over "Refrigerator" over "Line". I imagine the logo to the right of the door advertises some product.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

Re: WP Dispatch Service [was Less Than Carload Shipments]

Bob Webber
 

& branchline did the kit in HO with lettering....Somewhere I have the original ad for the cars - and have 4 of the Branchline cars

Grey - btw - the MP Eagle LCL cars also were grey not white.

At 03:32 AM 8/7/2019, Garth Groff wrote:
Fred,

Walthers did offer the Merchandise Service decals up into the 1970s. Even if you could find some, Walthers decals that old have a bad habit of going to pieces when soaked.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 8/7/19 2:39 AM, Fred Jansz wrote:
Hi Garth,

You are right no manufacturer offered us a correct scale model of the WP Merchandise Dispatch cars.
However, Speedwitch offered the 9'6" WP 20001-series cars in resin years ago (kit K114).
Unfortunately no decals are available AFAIK.

cheers, Fred Jansz
Bob Webber

Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Less Than Carload Shipments

Douglas Harding
 

Here is a scan of the M&StL’s LCL Schedule, circa 1952, the year the green boxcars were painted. The MSTL had trucking firms contracted to handle LCL service in many smaller communities. Brady trucking of Fort Dodge was the company used in Iowa. Spellacy was the company used in Minnesota. The MSTL also had a fleet of trucks for this service.

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Wednesday, August 7, 2019 3:33 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Less Than Carload Shipments

 


According to this web site, the Pacific Electric ceased all RAIL LCL in 1952,
and transferred the service to trucks (e.g. Pacific Motor Transport). Someone
here mentioned using LCL rather late, it taking a month to cross the country,
and suspecting it was all done by truck. That sounds right to me. The SP embraced
intermodal by the early 1950's and Overnight trains had lots of piggyback trailers
even before the end of steam operations.

http://www.elserenohistoricalsociety.org/P___E_RR.php

Tim O'Connor



On 8/7/2019 3:13 PM, C J Wyatt wrote:

If something was completely hopeless, you could get a favorable ICC decision. With LCL, I think that happened long before the Staggers Act. I never came across any railroad operated LCL operations in the seventies during my railroad career.

 

Jack Wyatt

 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: I believe this is an Armour reefer - can anyone confirm or refute?

al_brown03
 

Left of the door looks to me like "Armour" over "Refrigerator" over "Line". I imagine the logo to the right of the door advertises some product.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

I believe this is an Armour reefer - can anyone confirm or refute?

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi List Members,
 
There is a nice image of a reefer at the image below - caption reads "The Refrigerator Plant and Adjacent Long Island Railroad Siding at Camp Upton"
 
 
You can see a bigger version of the image by...
 
Clicking on the image
 
Then clicking on 'View larger'
 
At this point, you can go further and get a still bigger image by right-clicking on the image and clicking on 'View image' - this last part works in Firefox at least, other browsers and you are on your own.
 
I believe this is an Armour reefer - can anyone confirm or refute?
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund
 
 
 
 

Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Less Than Carload Shipments

Tim O'Connor
 


According to this web site, the Pacific Electric ceased all RAIL LCL in 1952,
and transferred the service to trucks (e.g. Pacific Motor Transport). Someone
here mentioned using LCL rather late, it taking a month to cross the country,
and suspecting it was all done by truck. That sounds right to me. The SP embraced
intermodal by the early 1950's and Overnight trains had lots of piggyback trailers
even before the end of steam operations.

http://www.elserenohistoricalsociety.org/P___E_RR.php

Tim O'Connor



On 8/7/2019 3:13 PM, C J Wyatt wrote:
If something was completely hopeless, you could get a favorable ICC decision. With LCL, I think that happened long before the Staggers Act. I never came across any railroad operated LCL operations in the seventies during my railroad career.

Jack Wyatt


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Less Than Carload Shipments

C J Wyatt
 

If something was completely hopeless, you could get a favorable ICC decision. With LCL, I think that happened long before the Staggers Act. I never came across any railroad operated LCL operations in the seventies during my railroad career.

Jack Wyatt

On Wednesday, August 7, 2019, 12:44:14 PM EDT, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:



Mike, I don't think Dennis meant it died instantly. It was a slow death. ;-)

As Dennis noted, and I think he may be right, railroads could not opt out without
cause until after the Staggers Act took effect. (It took years to be fully in effect.)

Tim O'



On 8/6/2019 1:28 PM, Schleigh Mike via Groups.Io wrote:

Hello Dennis & Group!

Down below, Dennis S says the following--
        "The traditional operation, where the local freight had an LCL car that delivered to each station as it worked down the line, died with the end of WWII."

Respectfully, I must submit, this is simply wrong.

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: WP Dispatch Service [was Less Than Carload Shipments]

Rod Miller
 

Protocraft makes the WP Dispatch lettering in O scale:

https://protocraft.com/category.cfm?ItemID=252&Categoryid=20&This_Sub_Sub_Category=WP

--
Rod Miller
Handcraftsman
===
Custom 2-rail O Scale Models: Drives,
Repairs, Steam Loco Building, More
http://www.rodmiller.com

Re: Atlas HO Meat Reefer Reservations

Bill Welch
 

Thanks Doug, the is an Armour truss rod I want to do.

Bill Welch