Date   
2018 Chicagoland MiniKit

Gary Roe
 

Admittedly, I am diving into this project a bit late; but have acquired all the parts I need, save for one.

I am building the N Scale version, and am at a loss for what to do about the turnbuckles.  Walthers catalog showed none that I could find, and a look at the Tichy web site also produced no results.

Anyone know where these tiny little buggers might be found?

Remember...N Scale.

Thanks!

gary roe
quincy, illinois

Re: TH&B USRA 40-ton DS Boxcar question

Kemal Mumcu
 

I put your question up on the TH&B Modeller's group over at Yahoo groups. I'll post a reply if anything comes in.

Colin Meikle

Re: 2018 Chicagoland MiniKit

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 


Hi Gary,
 
Since I model the year 1929 in N scale, I face this issue from time to time.
 
In the past, I have used Grant Line HOn3 turnbuckles on my N scale equipment. They are quite tiny, and appropriately sized for N scale.
 
See attached image (hopefully it is attached...) of the turnbuckles in use under an N scale passenger car - the turnbuckles will look just as good under a Steam Era Freight Car.
 
I am not familiar with the specific Minikit you are working on, but if it does not come with queen posts, Grant Line makes (made?) those as well for HOn3, and that is what I used on the passenger car model
 
Be sure to post a few images of the completed car - I would love to see it!
 
Claus Schlund
 
 

----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Roe
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 8:33 PM
Subject: [RealSTMFC] 2018 Chicagoland MiniKit

Admittedly, I am diving into this project a bit late; but have acquired all the parts I need, save for one.

I am building the N Scale version, and am at a loss for what to do about the turnbuckles.  Walthers catalog showed none that I could find, and a look at the Tichy web site also produced no results.

Anyone know where these tiny little buggers might be found?

Remember...N Scale.

Thanks!

gary roe
quincy, illinois

nice image of stock car SLSF 47864

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi List Members,
 
There is a nice image of stock car SLSF 47864 at the link below...
 
 
Caption info can be read at the link below...
 
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund

Flat Car Load Placement

Nelson Moyer
 

A while back, there was a thread on transformer loads on flat cars, and there was no consensus on where to place a single heavy load, i.e. in the center of the car or over one of the trucks. I was cutting out decals for the Owl Mountain SP F-50- 10 flat car tonight, and there is a stencil to be placed on the center of the side sill that reads:

 

CONCENTRATED LOAD HERE MUST

            NOT EXCEED 50000 LBS

 

The car has a capacity of 100000 lbs. and a load limit of 134900 lbs. with a light weight of 34100 lbs., so any single load between 50000-100000 lbs. would be placed over one of the trucks. I don’t know if this load restriction is unique to the SP, or SP is following a standard practice for heavy single loads. Apparently the fishbelly center sill on the F-5--10 had a deflection at the center of a linear load restriction of 50000 lbs.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

 

Re: Flat Car Load Placement

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Nelson and Friends,

WP steam-era 50' fishbelly flat cars had similar lettering. It was seen on PC&F-built 2351-2400 and on nearly-identical AC&F-built 2401-2700. The early 1950s bulkhead conversions from the latter group, 2851-2925, retained this lettering. Similar lettering was included on one of the old Walthers stock lettering sheets they stuffed into the package with almost every roadname. I will use this on my Chad Boas WP models (if I ever find time to build them, and if the decals don't fall apart).

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 8/13/19 10:44 PM, Nelson Moyer wrote:

A while back, there was a thread on transformer loads on flat cars, and there was no consensus on where to place a single heavy load, i.e. in the center of the car or over one of the trucks. I was cutting out decals for the Owl Mountain SP F-50- 10 flat car tonight, and there is a stencil to be placed on the center of the side sill that reads:

 

CONCENTRATED LOAD HERE MUST

            NOT EXCEED 50000 LBS

 

The car has a capacity of 100000 lbs. and a load limit of 134900 lbs. with a light weight of 34100 lbs., so any single load between 50000-100000 lbs. would be placed over one of the trucks. I don’t know if this load restriction is unique to the SP, or SP is following a standard practice for heavy single loads. Apparently the fishbelly center sill on the F-5--10 had a deflection at the center of a linear load restriction of 50000 lbs.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

 


Re: 2018 Chicagoland MiniKit

Donald B. Valentine
 

Claus, your photo of "Utopia" prompts a question I just have to ask. Did anyone really ever create
a door for a baggage section with as much glass in it? It looks like a moving target! What is the
prototype for this car?

Thanks,  Don Valentine

Re: 2018 Chicagoland MiniKit

Gary Roe
 

Thanks Claus!

The kit is a resin casting for an FGEX reefer.  Fortunately, the Queen posts are already built in.

gary roe
quincy, illinois


On Tuesday, August 13, 2019, 8:09:43 PM CDT, Claus Schlund \(HGM\) <claus@...> wrote:


Hi Gary,
 
Since I model the year 1929 in N scale, I face this issue from time to time.
 
In the past, I have used Grant Line HOn3 turnbuckles on my N scale equipment. They are quite tiny, and appropriately sized for N scale.
 
See attached image (hopefully it is attached...) of the turnbuckles in use under an N scale passenger car - the turnbuckles will look just as good under a Steam Era Freight Car.
 
I am not familiar with the specific Minikit you are working on, but if it does not come with queen posts, Grant Line makes (made?) those as well for HOn3, and that is what I used on the passenger car model
 
Be sure to post a few images of the completed car - I would love to see it!
 
Claus Schlund
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Roe
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 8:33 PM
Subject: [RealSTMFC] 2018 Chicagoland MiniKit

Admittedly, I am diving into this project a bit late; but have acquired all the parts I need, save for one.

I am building the N Scale version, and am at a loss for what to do about the turnbuckles.  Walthers catalog showed none that I could find, and a look at the Tichy web site also produced no results.

Anyone know where these tiny little buggers might be found?

Remember...N Scale.

Thanks!

gary roe
quincy, illinois

Re: TH&B USRA 40-ton DS Boxcar question

Bill Welch
 

Thank you Colin.

Bill Welch

Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Tichy tank car

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Scott;

The USRA car Tichy did with the larger dome I measured for my talks on modeling tank cars, and my measurements (which could be wrong) came out close to 10k, like the USRA car of that capacity. I had a similar challenge with lettering, and found the decals I purchased were oversized.

And, I know everybody believes there were no USRA cars in real life, but there was an AC&F-built car astoundingly similar sitting on a siding in L.A. for many years that me, Greg Martin, and many others saw, so make of that what you will.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of D. Scott Chatfield
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 5:15 PM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Tichy tank car

I know much has been written about this so-called USRA tank car, but I have a question. What was the gallonage of said USRA design?

The reason I ask is I am decaling said Tichy tank car to represent a Milwaukee Road water car, which apparently was built by ACF in 1923 (if I read the fuzzy scan right). It is a 10,000 gallon ARA III with a barrel made from four longitudinal courses. Which basically matches the Tichy car. But when I started putting decals on it I noticed they don't quite fall where they should. So yes, there are several variables here, but when I measured the actual model I found its body has a volume of about 9000 to 9200 gallons. Can't say I've ever laid eyes on a tank car that size.

So is the Tichy tank about 10% undersized? Or is it correct for the plans for the never-built USRA tank, which I always thought was a 10,000 gallon tank.

Oh, while said Milwaukee Road water car is a post-1960 paint job, it will occasionally be switched by an NW2....

Scott Chatfield

Re: Flat Car Load Placement

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Nelson;

Loading at one end, unless balanced, was highly frowned on. I know we've seen a few of those loads at one end, but it was not acceptable practice. The unloaded end could lift under certain circumstances, and potentially cause a derailment. Loading and securing instructions from the AAR show all loads centered, with the exception (theoretically) of diagonal loads. The ORERs also show info on how some individual flats and gons should have the load distributed. Depressed center and well flats were especially vulnerable to collapse if loaded wrong.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Nelson Moyer
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 10:44 PM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Flat Car Load Placement

A while back, there was a thread on transformer loads on flat cars, and there was no consensus on where to place a single heavy load, i.e. in the center of the car or over one of the trucks. I was cutting out decals for the Owl Mountain SP F-50- 10 flat car tonight, and there is a stencil to be placed on the center of the side sill that reads:



CONCENTRATED LOAD HERE MUST

NOT EXCEED 50000 LBS



The car has a capacity of 100000 lbs. and a load limit of 134900 lbs. with a light weight of 34100 lbs., so any single load between 50000-100000 lbs. would be placed over one of the trucks. I don't know if this load restriction is unique to the SP, or SP is following a standard practice for heavy single loads. Apparently the fishbelly center sill on the F-5--10 had a deflection at the center of a linear load restriction of 50000 lbs.



Nelson Moyer

Re: Flat Car Load Placement

Nelson Moyer
 

That suggests that since a concentrated load in excess of 50000 lbs. can't be distributed or placed over one of the trucks, the shipper would need a car with a higher center load capacity.

For modeling, I guess load weight is a moot point, as few of us calculate load weight and assign a load to a specific car on that basis. I guess the best alternative to load weight calculation is to use photos of actual loads together with the AAR and ORER loading instructions as the inspiration for out loads. Actually, that approach can result in some improbably loads like the M&StL culvert flat car load Clark Probst posted to the Proto-Layout group that must have challenged height clearance limits. I suspect a modeler would be ridiculed for building a load like that. Sometimes truth is stranger than fiction.

Nelson Moyer

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2019 6:37 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io; RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Flat Car Load Placement

Nelson;

Loading at one end, unless balanced, was highly frowned on. I know we've seen a few of those loads at one end, but it was not acceptable practice. The unloaded end could lift under certain circumstances, and potentially cause a derailment. Loading and securing instructions from the AAR show all loads centered, with the exception (theoretically) of diagonal loads. The ORERs also show info on how some individual flats and gons should have the load distributed. Depressed center and well flats were especially vulnerable to collapse if loaded wrong.

Elden Gatwood

Re: Tichy tank car

bn2204
 

Scott

It's my understanding that the Tichy model represents a USRA design from WWI that was never built here in the US. However, this design was built in Canada during WWII and the Canadian cars survived into the early 1980's. If memory serves me well, the manway is 54" in dia., as where the initial Tichy model was offered with a 60" manway. (Tichy now offers the 54" manway.) The centersill and brake appliances are slightly different, and there's been discussion about using  the frame from an 8000 gal Intermountain to more accurately model the frame. But as is, the tank itself is correct. There were several Canadian owners, but CGTX and CN were the big owners of the cars. In fact, I need several of these cars myself. The model best matches CGT'X 1600-1799 (see link)

http://www.nakina.net/pages/cgtx/cgtx001001.html

Darrall Swift - Lagrange, Ohio
Modeling the BN/MILW in North Central Montana,  Great Falls to Shelby,  Circa: August-September 1979

Re: Kids, Don't Try this at Home: UP Prototype...ATSF Paint & Lettering

tyesac@aol.com
 

Bern,

Being a Santa Fe prototype modeler, I'm used to manufacturers painting distinctly non Santa Fe equipment in various Santa Fe schemes.  Light blue stock cars, and "big circle" heralds on 36' truss rod box cars come to mind.  Lucky for those of us that have an interest in Santa Fe, there have been a huge amount of published information based on a lot of well done research.  Too bad many manufacturers are reluctant (or unaware of) to reach out to tap into that knowledge.   But since money talks, we can only patronize the ones that have gotten it right.   We're not all "train set bozos".

Tom Casey  
Dave Soderblom wrote:
"Please say more so I can understand your point..."

Trix invested a lot of money to badly tool (the roofs in particular are really bad representations of the rectangular panel roof) a prototype that are distinctly Union Pacific (including alternate center rivets), only to cave in and slap Santa Fe on it, including a bogus car class (Bx-36 is a USRA rebuild).  Monumental fail on many levels, and a license to steal money from the luckless bastard who buys this thing.

The other freight cars in this issue (the auto car and PFE steel reefer) have significant issues as well.


Ben Hom



-----Original Message-----
From: Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...>
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Tue, Aug 13, 2019 6:25 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Kids, Don't Try this at Home: UP Prototype...ATSF Paint & Lettering

Dave Soderblom wrote:
"Please say more so I can understand your point..."

Trix invested a lot of money to badly tool (the roofs in particular are really bad representations of the rectangular panel roof) a prototype that are distinctly Union Pacific (including alternate center rivets), only to cave in and slap Santa Fe on it, including a bogus car class (Bx-36 is a USRA rebuild).  Monumental fail on many levels, and a license to steal money from the luckless bastard who buys this thing.

The other freight cars in this issue (the auto car and PFE steel reefer) have significant issues as well.


Ben Hom

Re: 2018 Chicagoland MiniKit

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 


Hi Don and List Members,
 
Yes, UTOPIA was a real Pullman car, and the builders photo does indeed show all those windows in the baggage door! The builders photo shows the inscription 3159 L 2122 which may possibly mean plan 3159 lot 2122
 
Claus Schlund
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2019 6:23 AM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] 2018 Chicagoland MiniKit

Claus, your photo of "Utopia" prompts a question I just have to ask. Did anyone really ever create
a door for a baggage section with as much glass in it? It looks like a moving target! What is the
prototype for this car?

Thanks,  Don Valentine

Re: Flat Car Load Placement

Bruce Smith
 

Nelson, Folks,


On Aug 14, 2019, at 7:36 AM, Nelson Moyer <npmoyer@...> wrote:

That suggests that since a concentrated load in excess of 50000 lbs. can't be distributed or placed over one of the trucks, the shipper would need a car with a higher center load capacity.

EXACTLY!  So, the deal here is that the optimal loading position for a flat car for ride characteristics is the center of the car, BUT, almost all flat cars were restricted to significantly less than their capacity if the load was carried on the center of the span. What we have are two competing issues. NOTE, that a load, at the center of the span, placed on stringers or other supports at 1/3 and 2/3 of the span is NOT loading the center of the span. There were a few, very specifically and typically short cars that were designed to carry the full load at the center of the span. The Milwaukee Road welded gun flats (ancient Roundhouse car) and the PRR F22/23 “gun flats” are examples.


For modeling, I guess load weight is a moot point, as few of us calculate load weight and assign a load to a specific car on that basis.

Hmmmm… I do.. and it bugs me when I see obvious fails, such as the use of a 70 ton flat to carry one M4 Sherman tank (which is too little load for efficient car use).

I guess the best alternative to load weight calculation is to use photos of actual loads together with the AAR and ORER loading instructions as the inspiration for out loads. Actually, that approach can result in some improbably loads like the M&StL culvert flat car load Clark Probst posted to the Proto-Layout group that must have challenged height clearance limits. I suspect a modeler would be ridiculed for building a load like that. Sometimes truth is stranger than fiction.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith            
Auburn, AL
"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."



image of 50ft auto box SLSF 152805

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi List Members,
 
We also can see this nice image of 50ft auto box SLSF 152805 at the link below...
 
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund

Re: Flat Car Load Placement

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Nelson;

Truth is indeed stranger...

To add to what Bruce wrote:

I know a "high and wide" guy that was tasked with making sure things fit back in the day, that told me some hair-raising stories. Shippers would get a car, then try to load it either at greatest convenience to themselves, or to as great a capacity (weight or cube) as they wished for.

There is a collection worth of photos of loads gone bad in the PRRT&HS archives. That included loads that slipped off, or through a car end, toppled loads, shifted loads, and loads that rolled around in box cars and destroyed car interiors, sides and ends. Shippers did not usually follow the AAR rules to the letter, but winged it.

An "over the trucks" example, but balanced, was the loading of hot coil, in small groupings, at each end. This was quite common. I have several of those modeled.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Nelson Moyer
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2019 8:36 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Flat Car Load Placement

That suggests that since a concentrated load in excess of 50000 lbs. can't be distributed or placed over one of the trucks, the shipper would need a car with a higher center load capacity.

For modeling, I guess load weight is a moot point, as few of us calculate load weight and assign a load to a specific car on that basis. I guess the best alternative to load weight calculation is to use photos of actual loads together with the AAR and ORER loading instructions as the inspiration for out loads. Actually, that approach can result in some improbably loads like the M&StL culvert flat car load Clark Probst posted to the Proto-Layout group that must have challenged height clearance limits. I suspect a modeler would be ridiculed for building a load like that. Sometimes truth is stranger than fiction.

Nelson Moyer

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2019 6:37 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io; RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Flat Car Load Placement

Nelson;

Loading at one end, unless balanced, was highly frowned on. I know we've seen a few of those loads at one end, but it was not acceptable practice. The unloaded end could lift under certain circumstances, and potentially cause a derailment. Loading and securing instructions from the AAR show all loads centered, with the exception (theoretically) of diagonal loads. The ORERs also show info on how some individual flats and gons should have the load distributed. Depressed center and well flats were especially vulnerable to collapse if loaded wrong.

Elden Gatwood

Re: 2018 Chicagoland MiniKit

Bob Webber
 

UTOPIA  was lot 2122 plan 1155a and negative is 3159.  We have floor plan, etc.

Sent from BlueMail

On Aug 14, 2019, at 9:18 AM, "Claus Schlund \(HGM\)" <claus@...> wrote:
Hi Don and List Members,
 
Yes, UTOPIA was a real Pullman car, and the builders photo does indeed show all those windows in the baggage door! The builders photo shows the inscription 3159 L 2122 which may possibly mean plan 3159 lot 2122
 
Claus Schlund
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2019 6:23 AM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] 2018 Chicagoland MiniKit

Claus, your photo of "Utopia" prompts a question I just have to ask. Did anyone really ever create
a door for a baggage section with as much glass in it? It looks like a moving target! What is the
prototype for this car?

Thanks,  Don Valentine

Re: Flat Car Load Placement

Dennis Storzek
 

On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 07:55 AM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD wrote:
I know a "high and wide" guy that was tasked with making sure things fit back in the day, that told me some hair-raising stories. Shippers would get a car, then try to load it either at greatest convenience to themselves, or to as great a capacity (weight or cube) as they wished for.
And checking clearances was important. I had a great story told to me by a Soo Line engineer... 

The Soo had a secondary line to Manitowoc WI which was where they connected with the cross lake car ferries. This line also served Manitowoc Shipbuilding, which was also a maker of very large construction cranes. One day in the sixties their train had a huge slewing ring (the circular ring the crane rotates on) perched on a flatcar at the head end of the train. Nobody gave it much thought; big loads were normal out of Manitowoc. Ron says as they left the yard and started their run for the grade out of the Lake Michigan basin, as they passed under the C&NW bridge, there was a resounding DONG, and the crew turned to see the ring rolling along next to the train like a giant hula hoop. They watched as it rolled down the riverbank and flopped into the Manitowoc River. It didn't even derail the car it had been on.

Dennis Storzek