Date   
Re: Kids, Don't Try this at Home: UP Prototype...ATSF Paint & Lettering

tyesac@aol.com
 

Bern,

Being a Santa Fe prototype modeler, I'm used to manufacturers painting distinctly non Santa Fe equipment in various Santa Fe schemes.  Light blue stock cars, and "big circle" heralds on 36' truss rod box cars come to mind.  Lucky for those of us that have an interest in Santa Fe, there have been a huge amount of published information based on a lot of well done research.  Too bad many manufacturers are reluctant (or unaware of) to reach out to tap into that knowledge.   But since money talks, we can only patronize the ones that have gotten it right.   We're not all "train set bozos".

Tom Casey  
Dave Soderblom wrote:
"Please say more so I can understand your point..."

Trix invested a lot of money to badly tool (the roofs in particular are really bad representations of the rectangular panel roof) a prototype that are distinctly Union Pacific (including alternate center rivets), only to cave in and slap Santa Fe on it, including a bogus car class (Bx-36 is a USRA rebuild).  Monumental fail on many levels, and a license to steal money from the luckless bastard who buys this thing.

The other freight cars in this issue (the auto car and PFE steel reefer) have significant issues as well.


Ben Hom



-----Original Message-----
From: Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...>
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Tue, Aug 13, 2019 6:25 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Kids, Don't Try this at Home: UP Prototype...ATSF Paint & Lettering

Dave Soderblom wrote:
"Please say more so I can understand your point..."

Trix invested a lot of money to badly tool (the roofs in particular are really bad representations of the rectangular panel roof) a prototype that are distinctly Union Pacific (including alternate center rivets), only to cave in and slap Santa Fe on it, including a bogus car class (Bx-36 is a USRA rebuild).  Monumental fail on many levels, and a license to steal money from the luckless bastard who buys this thing.

The other freight cars in this issue (the auto car and PFE steel reefer) have significant issues as well.


Ben Hom

Re: Tichy tank car

bn2204
 

Scott

It's my understanding that the Tichy model represents a USRA design from WWI that was never built here in the US. However, this design was built in Canada during WWII and the Canadian cars survived into the early 1980's. If memory serves me well, the manway is 54" in dia., as where the initial Tichy model was offered with a 60" manway. (Tichy now offers the 54" manway.) The centersill and brake appliances are slightly different, and there's been discussion about using  the frame from an 8000 gal Intermountain to more accurately model the frame. But as is, the tank itself is correct. There were several Canadian owners, but CGTX and CN were the big owners of the cars. In fact, I need several of these cars myself. The model best matches CGT'X 1600-1799 (see link)

http://www.nakina.net/pages/cgtx/cgtx001001.html

Darrall Swift - Lagrange, Ohio
Modeling the BN/MILW in North Central Montana,  Great Falls to Shelby,  Circa: August-September 1979

Re: Flat Car Load Placement

Nelson Moyer
 

That suggests that since a concentrated load in excess of 50000 lbs. can't be distributed or placed over one of the trucks, the shipper would need a car with a higher center load capacity.

For modeling, I guess load weight is a moot point, as few of us calculate load weight and assign a load to a specific car on that basis. I guess the best alternative to load weight calculation is to use photos of actual loads together with the AAR and ORER loading instructions as the inspiration for out loads. Actually, that approach can result in some improbably loads like the M&StL culvert flat car load Clark Probst posted to the Proto-Layout group that must have challenged height clearance limits. I suspect a modeler would be ridiculed for building a load like that. Sometimes truth is stranger than fiction.

Nelson Moyer

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2019 6:37 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io; RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Flat Car Load Placement

Nelson;

Loading at one end, unless balanced, was highly frowned on. I know we've seen a few of those loads at one end, but it was not acceptable practice. The unloaded end could lift under certain circumstances, and potentially cause a derailment. Loading and securing instructions from the AAR show all loads centered, with the exception (theoretically) of diagonal loads. The ORERs also show info on how some individual flats and gons should have the load distributed. Depressed center and well flats were especially vulnerable to collapse if loaded wrong.

Elden Gatwood

Re: Flat Car Load Placement

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Nelson;

Loading at one end, unless balanced, was highly frowned on. I know we've seen a few of those loads at one end, but it was not acceptable practice. The unloaded end could lift under certain circumstances, and potentially cause a derailment. Loading and securing instructions from the AAR show all loads centered, with the exception (theoretically) of diagonal loads. The ORERs also show info on how some individual flats and gons should have the load distributed. Depressed center and well flats were especially vulnerable to collapse if loaded wrong.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Nelson Moyer
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 10:44 PM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Flat Car Load Placement

A while back, there was a thread on transformer loads on flat cars, and there was no consensus on where to place a single heavy load, i.e. in the center of the car or over one of the trucks. I was cutting out decals for the Owl Mountain SP F-50- 10 flat car tonight, and there is a stencil to be placed on the center of the side sill that reads:



CONCENTRATED LOAD HERE MUST

NOT EXCEED 50000 LBS



The car has a capacity of 100000 lbs. and a load limit of 134900 lbs. with a light weight of 34100 lbs., so any single load between 50000-100000 lbs. would be placed over one of the trucks. I don't know if this load restriction is unique to the SP, or SP is following a standard practice for heavy single loads. Apparently the fishbelly center sill on the F-5--10 had a deflection at the center of a linear load restriction of 50000 lbs.



Nelson Moyer

Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Tichy tank car

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Scott;

The USRA car Tichy did with the larger dome I measured for my talks on modeling tank cars, and my measurements (which could be wrong) came out close to 10k, like the USRA car of that capacity. I had a similar challenge with lettering, and found the decals I purchased were oversized.

And, I know everybody believes there were no USRA cars in real life, but there was an AC&F-built car astoundingly similar sitting on a siding in L.A. for many years that me, Greg Martin, and many others saw, so make of that what you will.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of D. Scott Chatfield
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 5:15 PM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Tichy tank car

I know much has been written about this so-called USRA tank car, but I have a question. What was the gallonage of said USRA design?

The reason I ask is I am decaling said Tichy tank car to represent a Milwaukee Road water car, which apparently was built by ACF in 1923 (if I read the fuzzy scan right). It is a 10,000 gallon ARA III with a barrel made from four longitudinal courses. Which basically matches the Tichy car. But when I started putting decals on it I noticed they don't quite fall where they should. So yes, there are several variables here, but when I measured the actual model I found its body has a volume of about 9000 to 9200 gallons. Can't say I've ever laid eyes on a tank car that size.

So is the Tichy tank about 10% undersized? Or is it correct for the plans for the never-built USRA tank, which I always thought was a 10,000 gallon tank.

Oh, while said Milwaukee Road water car is a post-1960 paint job, it will occasionally be switched by an NW2....

Scott Chatfield

Re: TH&B USRA 40-ton DS Boxcar question

Bill Welch
 

Thank you Colin.

Bill Welch

Re: 2018 Chicagoland MiniKit

Gary Roe
 

Thanks Claus!

The kit is a resin casting for an FGEX reefer.  Fortunately, the Queen posts are already built in.

gary roe
quincy, illinois


On Tuesday, August 13, 2019, 8:09:43 PM CDT, Claus Schlund \(HGM\) <claus@...> wrote:


Hi Gary,
 
Since I model the year 1929 in N scale, I face this issue from time to time.
 
In the past, I have used Grant Line HOn3 turnbuckles on my N scale equipment. They are quite tiny, and appropriately sized for N scale.
 
See attached image (hopefully it is attached...) of the turnbuckles in use under an N scale passenger car - the turnbuckles will look just as good under a Steam Era Freight Car.
 
I am not familiar with the specific Minikit you are working on, but if it does not come with queen posts, Grant Line makes (made?) those as well for HOn3, and that is what I used on the passenger car model
 
Be sure to post a few images of the completed car - I would love to see it!
 
Claus Schlund
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Roe
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 8:33 PM
Subject: [RealSTMFC] 2018 Chicagoland MiniKit

Admittedly, I am diving into this project a bit late; but have acquired all the parts I need, save for one.

I am building the N Scale version, and am at a loss for what to do about the turnbuckles.  Walthers catalog showed none that I could find, and a look at the Tichy web site also produced no results.

Anyone know where these tiny little buggers might be found?

Remember...N Scale.

Thanks!

gary roe
quincy, illinois

Re: 2018 Chicagoland MiniKit

Donald B. Valentine
 

Claus, your photo of "Utopia" prompts a question I just have to ask. Did anyone really ever create
a door for a baggage section with as much glass in it? It looks like a moving target! What is the
prototype for this car?

Thanks,  Don Valentine

Re: Flat Car Load Placement

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Nelson and Friends,

WP steam-era 50' fishbelly flat cars had similar lettering. It was seen on PC&F-built 2351-2400 and on nearly-identical AC&F-built 2401-2700. The early 1950s bulkhead conversions from the latter group, 2851-2925, retained this lettering. Similar lettering was included on one of the old Walthers stock lettering sheets they stuffed into the package with almost every roadname. I will use this on my Chad Boas WP models (if I ever find time to build them, and if the decals don't fall apart).

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 8/13/19 10:44 PM, Nelson Moyer wrote:

A while back, there was a thread on transformer loads on flat cars, and there was no consensus on where to place a single heavy load, i.e. in the center of the car or over one of the trucks. I was cutting out decals for the Owl Mountain SP F-50- 10 flat car tonight, and there is a stencil to be placed on the center of the side sill that reads:

 

CONCENTRATED LOAD HERE MUST

            NOT EXCEED 50000 LBS

 

The car has a capacity of 100000 lbs. and a load limit of 134900 lbs. with a light weight of 34100 lbs., so any single load between 50000-100000 lbs. would be placed over one of the trucks. I don’t know if this load restriction is unique to the SP, or SP is following a standard practice for heavy single loads. Apparently the fishbelly center sill on the F-5--10 had a deflection at the center of a linear load restriction of 50000 lbs.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

 


Flat Car Load Placement

Nelson Moyer
 

A while back, there was a thread on transformer loads on flat cars, and there was no consensus on where to place a single heavy load, i.e. in the center of the car or over one of the trucks. I was cutting out decals for the Owl Mountain SP F-50- 10 flat car tonight, and there is a stencil to be placed on the center of the side sill that reads:

 

CONCENTRATED LOAD HERE MUST

            NOT EXCEED 50000 LBS

 

The car has a capacity of 100000 lbs. and a load limit of 134900 lbs. with a light weight of 34100 lbs., so any single load between 50000-100000 lbs. would be placed over one of the trucks. I don’t know if this load restriction is unique to the SP, or SP is following a standard practice for heavy single loads. Apparently the fishbelly center sill on the F-5--10 had a deflection at the center of a linear load restriction of 50000 lbs.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

 

nice image of stock car SLSF 47864

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi List Members,
 
There is a nice image of stock car SLSF 47864 at the link below...
 
 
Caption info can be read at the link below...
 
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund

Re: 2018 Chicagoland MiniKit

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 


Hi Gary,
 
Since I model the year 1929 in N scale, I face this issue from time to time.
 
In the past, I have used Grant Line HOn3 turnbuckles on my N scale equipment. They are quite tiny, and appropriately sized for N scale.
 
See attached image (hopefully it is attached...) of the turnbuckles in use under an N scale passenger car - the turnbuckles will look just as good under a Steam Era Freight Car.
 
I am not familiar with the specific Minikit you are working on, but if it does not come with queen posts, Grant Line makes (made?) those as well for HOn3, and that is what I used on the passenger car model
 
Be sure to post a few images of the completed car - I would love to see it!
 
Claus Schlund
 
 

----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Roe
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 8:33 PM
Subject: [RealSTMFC] 2018 Chicagoland MiniKit

Admittedly, I am diving into this project a bit late; but have acquired all the parts I need, save for one.

I am building the N Scale version, and am at a loss for what to do about the turnbuckles.  Walthers catalog showed none that I could find, and a look at the Tichy web site also produced no results.

Anyone know where these tiny little buggers might be found?

Remember...N Scale.

Thanks!

gary roe
quincy, illinois

Re: TH&B USRA 40-ton DS Boxcar question

Kemal Mumcu
 

I put your question up on the TH&B Modeller's group over at Yahoo groups. I'll post a reply if anything comes in.

Colin Meikle

2018 Chicagoland MiniKit

Gary Roe
 

Admittedly, I am diving into this project a bit late; but have acquired all the parts I need, save for one.

I am building the N Scale version, and am at a loss for what to do about the turnbuckles.  Walthers catalog showed none that I could find, and a look at the Tichy web site also produced no results.

Anyone know where these tiny little buggers might be found?

Remember...N Scale.

Thanks!

gary roe
quincy, illinois

Re: Kids, Don't Try this at Home: UP Prototype...ATSF Paint & Lettering

Benjamin Hom
 

Dave Soderblom wrote:
"Please say more so I can understand your point..."

Trix invested a lot of money to badly tool (the roofs in particular are really bad representations of the rectangular panel roof) a prototype that are distinctly Union Pacific (including alternate center rivets), only to cave in and slap Santa Fe on it, including a bogus car class (Bx-36 is a USRA rebuild).  Monumental fail on many levels, and a license to steal money from the luckless bastard who buys this thing.

The other freight cars in this issue (the auto car and PFE steel reefer) have significant issues as well.


Ben Hom

Re: Kids, Don't Try this at Home: UP Prototype...ATSF Paint & Lettering

David Soderblom
 

Ben:

Please say more so I can understand your point...



David Soderblom
Baltimore MD USA
drs@...

Tichy tank car

David
 

ACF's tanks before the Type 27 tended to be shorter lengthwise for their nominal gallonage?? (and therefore larger in diameter) than most of the other tank car builders. What you want for that Milwaukee car is?? the old Proto 2000 ACF Type 21 tank.

David Thompson

Tichy tank car

Andy Carlson
 

I have found that the various wheel bases of tank cars make a huge difference in lettering cars. I remember once thinking that UTLX and ACF tank bodies were so close, they could be a start of something kit bashed. B ut those two builders had noticably different wheel bases. Because the tank body bands are located at the bolster area, wheel base will change the amount of room between the head cap and these bands, making proportions go astray.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

On Tuesday, August 13, 2019, 2:16:15 PM PDT, D. Scott Chatfield <blindog@...> wrote:


I know much has been written about this so-called USRA tank car, but I have a question.  What was the gallonage of said USRA design?

The reason I ask is I am decaling said Tichy tank car to represent a Milwaukee Road water car, which apparently was built by ACF in 1923 (if I read the fuzzy scan right).  It is a 10,000 gallon ARA III with a barrel made from four longitudinal courses.  Which basically matches the Tichy car.  But when I started putting decals on it I noticed they don't quite fall where they should.  So yes, there are several variables here, but when I measured the actual model I found its body has a volume of about 9000 to 9200 gallons.  Can't say I've ever laid eyes on a tank car that size.

So is the Tichy tank about 10% undersized?  Or is it correct for the plans for the never-built USRA tank, which I always thought was a 10,000 gallon tank.

Oh, while said Milwaukee Road water car is a post-1960 paint job, it will occasionally be switched by an NW2....

Scott Chatfield
_._,_._,_

Tichy tank car

D. Scott Chatfield
 

I know much has been written about this so-called USRA tank car, but I have a question.  What was the gallonage of said USRA design?

The reason I ask is I am decaling said Tichy tank car to represent a Milwaukee Road water car, which apparently was built by ACF in 1923 (if I read the fuzzy scan right).  It is a 10,000 gallon ARA III with a barrel made from four longitudinal courses.  Which basically matches the Tichy car.  But when I started putting decals on it I noticed they don't quite fall where they should.  So yes, there are several variables here, but when I measured the actual model I found its body has a volume of about 9000 to 9200 gallons.  Can't say I've ever laid eyes on a tank car that size.

So is the Tichy tank about 10% undersized?  Or is it correct for the plans for the never-built USRA tank, which I always thought was a 10,000 gallon tank.

Oh, while said Milwaukee Road water car is a post-1960 paint job, it will occasionally be switched by an NW2....

Scott Chatfield

Re: PRR container DD1A color

Greg Martin
 

Lester,

If you are an oil based non-acrylic type paint modeler like me there are some more recent post Floquil era offerings.

  1. Mr. Hobby~Mr. Color #7 Brown. Great for the transition era molder post '45 until pre-'61. It is a bit darker and redder than Floquil Zinc Chromate. Excellent choice.
  2. TESTORS 1/4 oz bottles Flat Grapefruit. This is the traditional PRR FCC that most guy go goo-goo over. It is more representative of the Red Caboose color, not my favorite but an excellent choice. So post 1929 thru 1945 (or later if not repainted) 
  3. Best Stand By TESTORS Rust in the 1/4 oz bottles but the color needs tweaked while shadowing with my techniques. Great basic Freight car Red.  
Let's not look at a bottle and get a brain freeze ... Look at the color and use the force, Lester.

For you Acrylic guys, I can't help you as I hate the stuff.

Greg Martin 


Why Yes I have done some modeling...

Sent from AOL Desktop

In a message dated 8/12/2019 7:22:00 AM Pacific Standard Time, rforailroad@... writes:

I am about to move a resin Funaro & Camerlengo container Flat Car kit 8120 to the paint shop.  The instructions for the car body state Scalecoat PRR Freight Red, a  red moving toward maroon, to my eyes when viewing paint chips.   I am guessing containers, DD1A, the same color.  Is this correct?

Lester Breuer

--
Hey Boss,


Somehow I got deleted from this group in late May. I guess someone didn't like me. Jail is a lonely place.

Greg Martin