Date   

Re: MEK Substitute and current plastic cements

Tim O'Connor
 

Denny

Tenax is dichloromethane (aka methylene chloride). I bought a QUART on Amazon.

MEK is methylethylketone, or 2-butanone. I have a quart of that too. :-)

Tim O'

===========================

On 8/20/2019 9:55 AM, Denny Anspach wrote:
I am on the very edge of using up the last drops of my Tenax and Ambroid liquid plastic cements, and I was jolted this morning when my reliable ACE Hardware store informed me that they can no longer carry my otherwise usual MEK (and this is IOWA, not California). I do have some Testors (2-3 years old), but at least the bottle that I have seems to take forever or…. not at all to set up.

ACE does carry MEK Substitute (clearly so identified), but I have no idea what it is or what it might be, and I am loathe to buy a quart of something that may not at all work. What are other listers’ experiences these days?

Excuse the cross-listing.

Denny

Denny S. Anspach MD
Okoboji, IA
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*


Re: MEK Substitute and current plastic cements

Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

Jon Miller wrote:

 I've never had any luck using MEK to join Plexiglas.  I use a acrylics cement from TAP plastic.  The can says Dichloromethane contains; Methylene chloride
Trichloroethylene
Methyl Methacrylate Monomer
    Anyone know a chemist?:


    Yes, as a matter of fact. Noted New Haven modeler Bill Aldrich has a doctorate in Inorganic Chemistry and a second one in Metallurgy. Since we speak three or four tims a week I will ask him.

Cordially, Don Valentine




Re: SOMETIMES YOU JUST HAVE TO BLINK

WILLIAM PARDIE
 






If anyone is interested here are two of the three “oddballs” on my western railroad.

Thanks for all of the responses.  Your opinions are all valued.

Bill Pardie


Re: Paint Damage from Bubble Wrap

Tim O'Connor
 

Brian

No, they don't. I have ordered BUNDLES of boxes and envelopes from the Post Office web
site. These come in many sizes and a single bundle is around 25 boxes I think. I ordered
them online, and the post office delivered them in a couple of days. NO CHARGE.

I do use them to mail stuff (there is postage for that), so I'm not taking advantage.
It's just their way of "priming the pump".

Tim O'Connor


On 8/20/2019 1:09 AM, BRIAN PAUL EHNI wrote:
When you send the package, they scan the bar code on the envelope or box to charge you. 

Thanks!
Brian Ehni 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: SOMETIMES YOU JUST HAVE TO BLINK

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

In the course of this thread a photo of Greatr Northern gondola #72600 was submitted.  This caught my attention as I had bought this kit from sunshine many years ago.  I backed down from building it while I pondered how to do the tie down loops on the sides of the car (this was not in the 
Sunshine instructions0). The photo brings the car back into my list of priorities or if someone has the SL-SF stock car mentioned last week I would be willing to trade.

Bill Pardie

On Aug 19, 2019, at 9:55 AM, Douglas Harding <doug.harding@...> wrote:

Bill I had the same thoughts about the Broadway Limited PRR K7A stockcar, never thought needed one and have so far avoided buying one. Then I found a document showing one was loaded in S St Paul MN destined for a farmer on the M&StL in Minburn, Iowa, in 1945. That is close enough to my time frame to justify the occasional appearance. Despite what many think, stockcars did get off road. And yes a PRR would be an oddball, but it did happen occasionally. Plus the MSTL had a direct connection the PRR at Peoria, meaning it may have happened more than once.
 
Doug  Harding
 
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of WILLIAM PARDIE
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2019 2:14 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] SOMETIMES YOU JUST HAVE TO BLINK
 
<image001.jpg>
 
The comments following Lester Brewer’s post on his excellent container car got my attention.  When if finished the above car I felt that as a Southern Pacific modeler this car never saw SP trackage.  My suspicions were reinforced by the comments that Lester’s cart probably never ventured off line.  I recently uncovered pbotos of a single DT&I hoopper cdar and a red, white and blue New Haven car in San Francisco gave credence to a couple of other (odd balls) on my roster.
 
Until somthing turns up on this I will just have to blink:
 
Bill Pardie



Re: MEK Substitute and current plastic cements

Gary Ray
 

What are you wanting to know from a chemist?  I’m currently visiting my daughter who has a degree in organic chemistry.

Gary Ray

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jon Miller
Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2019 9:14 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] MEK Substitute and current plastic cements

 

On 8/20/2019 7:01 AM, Pierre Oliver wrote:

MEK is used by the pint for plexiglas joinery 

    I've never had any luck using MEK to join Plexiglas.  I use a acrylics cement from TAP plastic.  The can says Dichloromethane contains;

Methylene chloride
Trichloroethylene
Methyl Methacrylate Monomer

    Anyone know a chemist?:-D

 

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, 
SPROG, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Virus-free. www.avast.com


Re: MEK Substitute and current plastic cements

Scott H. Haycock
 

In My area, You can get it from Sherwin-Williams Paint stores.

Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantment

On August 20, 2019 at 7:55 AM Denny Anspach <danspachmd@gmail.com> wrote:


I am on the very edge of using up the last drops of my Tenax and Ambroid liquid plastic cements, and I was jolted this morning when my reliable ACE Hardware store informed me that they can no longer carry my otherwise usual MEK (and this is IOWA, not California). I do have some Testors (2-3 years old), but at least the bottle that I have seems to take forever or…. not at all to set up.

ACE does carry MEK Substitute (clearly so identified), but I have no idea what it is or what it might be, and I am loathe to buy a quart of something that may not at all work. What are other listers’ experiences these days?

Excuse the cross-listing.

Denny

Denny S. Anspach MD
Okoboji, IA




Re: MEK Substitute and current plastic cements

Tony Thompson
 

      We have discussed on this list before, the issues around changing environmental regulations. Most of things we THINK are banned, aren't. But there is a lot more paperwork for handling some of it, and chain stores understandably don't want to be bothered. Lead sheet is one, though roofer's stores still sell it freely in California. It is pretty hard to find some solvents in California today, including MEK, but professional painter's supply houses have it, along with places like boat shops or plastics stores. Or at least they did two years ago, when I checked around to see.
       Most of these rules have arisen because of misuse of these materials, and probably rightly so. But it can be inconvenient for hobbyists, who generally use pretty small amounts of these materials.

Tony Thompson




Re: MEK Substitute and current plastic cements

Jim Betz
 

Denny,
  You might try a boat shop (such as West Marine), a plastics shop (such as
Tap Plastics), or a paint shop (especially one that supplies paint to 
commercial painters doing car/boat restorations).  Ace or other "retail
shops" are unlikely to want to bother with MEK (too few sales to justify
having it on the shelves/dealing with the 'special' shipping).

  MEK can no longer be mailed and shipping it in small quantities is
essentially unrealistically expensive.  California state regulations are
more restrictive on all hazardous products than just about anywhere
in the country ... but you might find it in Iowa ("Eye-Oh-Way") if you
look somewhere other than an Ace.
  Handling/using MEK is not to be taken lightly and proper
ventilation is not just recommended it is required. 

  Personally, I'm still working thru my stock of Tenax and am
unlikely to ever consider MEK. 

    - Jim B. (who found MEK listed as in stock in a West Marine in Burlington, Wa.)


Tyvek was Paint Damage from Bubble Wrap

Bob Webber
 

Also available from Archival supply houses- Hollinger Corp. description:

TYVEK: Made from high-density polyethlene fibers, Tvek is a chemically inert sheet of spunbonded olefin (5.7 ml) that is strong, lightweight, flexible, resistant to water chemicals, abrasions and aging. It's (sic) low-linting surface makes it perfect for photographic materials. The opaque, smooth surface can be sewn into bags or wrapped around a wide variety of collectibles to protect them from ambient UV radiation and dust an open shelves or in awkward shelving situations.

Archival houses have many materials - including overwraps and bags made of inert plastics (as in the brass packaging). They can be pricey. We have to swallow the price for a large variety of materials, boxes, bags, folders, et al - as an archive you have to do things to preserve items you'd otherwise place in non-archival folders and such.



Bob Webber


Re: MEK Substitute and current plastic cements

Curt Fortenberry
 


Have you tried Tamiya thin?  It's my go to cement anymore.  I have MEK as well. 

Curt Fortenberry


Re: [PassengerCarList] MEK Substitute and current plastic cements

Ray Breyer
 

On Tuesday, August 20, 2019, 08:55:30 AM CDT, Denny Anspach <danspachmd@...> wrote:


I am on the very edge of using up the last drops of my Tenax and Ambroid liquid plastic cements, and I was jolted this morning when my reliable ACE Hardware store informed me that they can no longer carry my otherwise usual MEK (and this is IOWA, not California). I do have some Testors  (2-3 years old), but at least the bottle that I have seems to take forever or…. not at all to set up.

ACE does carry MEK Substitute (clearly so identified), but I have no idea what it is or what it might be, and I am loathe to buy a quart of something that may not at all work.  What are other listers’ experiences these days?

Excuse the cross-listing.

Denny

Denny S. Anspach MD
Okoboji, IA




Re: MEK Substitute and current plastic cements

Gene Deimling
 

I have been using Tamiya Extra Thin Cement with excellent results. It is widely available in the US even in California. It works on styrene but not ABS.
Gene Deimling


Re: SOMETIMES YOU JUST HAVE TO BLINK

spsalso
 

Tim (and all),

Re:  that modified rib.  I am attaching a photo to show the difference between it and a "regular" rib.  I do not have a good side shot of the rib.  I think the photos in Thompson's book would be adequate.

Ed

Edward Sutorik


Re: MEK Substitute and current plastic cements

Drew M.
 

Hi Denny,
   I have used the Ace MEK substitute. It works just as well as MEK but evaporates just a bit slower. Any joint made is just as strong. The only difference I noticed is the smell - MEK substitute is a bit more of a bitter smell.

Regards,
Drew Marshall in Philly, PA

Modeling the pre-Depression years.

Sent from TypeApp

On Aug 20, 2019, at 09:55, Denny Anspach <danspachmd@...> wrote:
I am on the very edge of using up the last drops of my Tenax and Ambroid liquid plastic cements, and I was jolted this morning when my reliable ACE Hardware store informed me that they can no longer carry my otherwise usual MEK (and this is IOWA, not California). I do have some Testors  (2-3 years old), but at least the bottle that I have seems to take forever or…. not at all to set up. 

ACE does carry MEK Substitute (clearly so identified), but I have no idea what it is or what it might be, and I am loathe to buy a quart of something that may not at all work. What are other listers’ experiences these days?

Excuse the cross-listing.

Denny

Denny S. Anspach MD
Okoboji, IA





Re: MEK Substitute and current plastic cements

Matt Goodman
 

There was some discussion about MEK and methylene chloride replacements (as well as other sources for the latter) on the MRH site a few months back. Like all threads, it wanders a bit, but the proponent’s descriptions for the replacements is on this page:


I haven’t used either replacement, so can’t personally comment. 

Matt Goodman
Columbus, Ohio

Sent from my mobile

On Aug 20, 2019, at 11:07 AM, Nelson Moyer <npmoyer@...> wrote:

I bought a quart of MEK at Menards about two years ago, but I haven't look for it since as a quart goes a long way. Tenax is methylene chloride, and I found an online chemical supply company that will sell 500 ml bottles of methylene chloride.

https://www.carolina.com/catalog/detail.jsp?prodId=875970&s_cid=ppc_ms_products&scid=scbplp875970&sc_intid=875970&msclkid=4278d12ae0331a02f9698c76e90512b2&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=SC%20Shopping&utm_term=4577541784564665&utm_content=All%20Products

The web site suggests ethyl acetate as a green substitute, but I have no experience with ethyl acetate as a styrene cement. You might also look for MEK at a full service paint store.

Nelson Moyer
Iowa City, IA

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Denny Anspach
Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2019 8:55 AM
To: RealSteamEraFreightCarList <RealSTMFC@groups.io>; Passenger Car List <passengercarlist@groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] MEK Substitute and current plastic cements

I am on the very edge of using up the last drops of my Tenax and Ambroid liquid plastic cements, and I was jolted this morning when my reliable ACE Hardware store informed me that they can no longer carry my otherwise usual MEK (and this is IOWA, not California). I do have some Testors  (2-3 years old), but at least the bottle that I have seems to take forever or…. not at all to set up.

ACE does carry MEK Substitute (clearly so identified), but I have no idea what it is or what it might be, and I am loathe to buy a quart of something that may not at all work.  What are other listers’ experiences these days?

Excuse the cross-listing.

Denny

Denny S. Anspach MD
Okoboji, IA








Re: MEK Substitute and current plastic cements

Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
 

On 8/20/2019 7:01 AM, Pierre Oliver wrote:
MEK is used by the pint for plexiglas joinery 

    I've never had any luck using MEK to join Plexiglas.  I use a acrylics cement from TAP plastic.  The can says Dichloromethane contains;

Methylene chloride
Trichloroethylene
Methyl Methacrylate Monomer

    Anyone know a chemist?:-D


-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, 
SPROG, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: MEK Substitute and current plastic cements

Ted Schnepf
 

Hi Denny,

Scale Coat , the paint people have produced a new solvent that works like Tenax or the old pro weld.  Same size bottle.  Check out a local hobby shop, or Scale Coat directly, as can no longer send through the mail.

Ted Schnepf
126 Will Scarlet,
Elgin, Ill. 60120


847=697-5353


On Tuesday, August 20, 2019, 08:55:29 AM CDT, Denny Anspach <danspachmd@...> wrote:


I am on the very edge of using up the last drops of my Tenax and Ambroid liquid plastic cements, and I was jolted this morning when my reliable ACE Hardware store informed me that they can no longer carry my otherwise usual MEK (and this is IOWA, not California). I do have some Testors  (2-3 years old), but at least the bottle that I have seems to take forever or…. not at all to set up.

ACE does carry MEK Substitute (clearly so identified), but I have no idea what it is or what it might be, and I am loathe to buy a quart of something that may not at all work.  What are other listers’ experiences these days?

Excuse the cross-listing.

Denny

Denny S. Anspach MD
Okoboji, IA



Re: SOMETIMES YOU JUST HAVE TO BLINK

spsalso
 

Tim,

The answer to your question is:  "Yes" and "No".

There are three number series of interest:  GN 72500-72749, GN 72750-72770, and GN 72771-72773.

The latter two were made up of cars pulled from the former, and were the ones used in container service.  So that's a qualified "Yes".

The "No" comes up because, first, the cars apparently got roller bearings fairly quickly after conversion.  Also, all the pictures of these cars in Thompson's book show additional reinforced ribs on the car side (2 per side) (see my photo).  He shows three shots of the container cars with the reinforcements.  But he also shows one shot of a car in the "regular" series with the reinforcements.  As you know, Sunshine did these cars.  It would appear doable to add the reinforcing ribs.  I don't think Sunshine offered this version, though I could be wrong.

I am attaching two overhead views of the car and the containers.  From the pictures, I don't see that there was any modification to the inside of the car for the containers.


Ed

Edward Sutorik


Re: MEK Substitute and current plastic cements

Nelson Moyer
 

I bought a quart of MEK at Menards about two years ago, but I haven't look for it since as a quart goes a long way. Tenax is methylene chloride, and I found an online chemical supply company that will sell 500 ml bottles of methylene chloride.

https://www.carolina.com/catalog/detail.jsp?prodId=875970&s_cid=ppc_ms_products&scid=scbplp875970&sc_intid=875970&msclkid=4278d12ae0331a02f9698c76e90512b2&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=SC%20Shopping&utm_term=4577541784564665&utm_content=All%20Products

The web site suggests ethyl acetate as a green substitute, but I have no experience with ethyl acetate as a styrene cement. You might also look for MEK at a full service paint store.

Nelson Moyer
Iowa City, IA

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Denny Anspach
Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2019 8:55 AM
To: RealSteamEraFreightCarList <RealSTMFC@groups.io>; Passenger Car List <passengercarlist@groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] MEK Substitute and current plastic cements

I am on the very edge of using up the last drops of my Tenax and Ambroid liquid plastic cements, and I was jolted this morning when my reliable ACE Hardware store informed me that they can no longer carry my otherwise usual MEK (and this is IOWA, not California). I do have some Testors (2-3 years old), but at least the bottle that I have seems to take forever or…. not at all to set up.

ACE does carry MEK Substitute (clearly so identified), but I have no idea what it is or what it might be, and I am loathe to buy a quart of something that may not at all work. What are other listers’ experiences these days?

Excuse the cross-listing.

Denny

Denny S. Anspach MD
Okoboji, IA

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