Date   
Re: MEK Substitute and current plastic cements

Donald B. Valentine
 

Jon Miller wrote:

 I've never had any luck using MEK to join Plexiglas.  I use a acrylics cement from TAP plastic.  The can says Dichloromethane contains; Methylene chloride
Trichloroethylene
Methyl Methacrylate Monomer
    Anyone know a chemist?:


    Yes, as a matter of fact. Noted New Haven modeler Bill Aldrich has a doctorate in Inorganic Chemistry and a second one in Metallurgy. Since we speak three or four tims a week I will ask him.

Cordially, Don Valentine



Re: MEK Substitute and current plastic cements

Tim O'Connor
 

Denny

Tenax is dichloromethane (aka methylene chloride). I bought a QUART on Amazon.

MEK is methylethylketone, or 2-butanone. I have a quart of that too. :-)

Tim O'

===========================

On 8/20/2019 9:55 AM, Denny Anspach wrote:
I am on the very edge of using up the last drops of my Tenax and Ambroid liquid plastic cements, and I was jolted this morning when my reliable ACE Hardware store informed me that they can no longer carry my otherwise usual MEK (and this is IOWA, not California). I do have some Testors (2-3 years old), but at least the bottle that I have seems to take forever or…. not at all to set up.

ACE does carry MEK Substitute (clearly so identified), but I have no idea what it is or what it might be, and I am loathe to buy a quart of something that may not at all work. What are other listers’ experiences these days?

Excuse the cross-listing.

Denny

Denny S. Anspach MD
Okoboji, IA
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*

Re: MEK Substitute and current plastic cements

Bill Welch
 
Edited

I use Tamiya Extra Thin when I want quicker results than Testers. otherwise Testers for it slowness, as when I am harvesting and gluing down rivets/bolt heads. I have one of the older squat Testers bottles that I refill while the Tamiya bottle is also squat and thus less prone to getting tipped.

There has been a shortage of the Tamiya product so I bought two bottle at the C'ville RPM and illegally secured one each in my sneakers in my suitcase. Bag was searched but the Tamiya made it through. The Tamiya brush is nice and small and telescopes to reach the bottom when necessary.

Bill Welch

Re: NWSL to continue business

Tony Thompson
 

It's super good news that NWSL will continue. Maybe they could buy up Reboxx <g>.

Tony Thompson



Re: NWSL to continue business

Pierre Oliver
 

Oh wouldn't that be nice!

Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com
On 8/20/19 6:46 p.m., Tony Thompson wrote:

It's super good news that NWSL will continue. Maybe they could buy up Reboxx <g>.

Tony Thompson



Re: SOMETIMES YOU JUST HAVE TO BLINK

Tim O'Connor
 


Ed, thanks for the additional pictures! I'm especially happy the car is
coupled to a Southern Pacific hopper!

However you might want to check your number series - 72774 is not part of any
of the series you listed.

I agree the reinforced ribs are just that, and nothing more. I wish those
Sunshine kits were still available!

Tim O'Connor




On 8/20/2019 12:00 PM, spsalso via Groups.Io wrote:
Tim,

The answer to your question is:  "Yes" and "No".

There are three number series of interest:  GN 72500-72749, GN 72750-72770, and GN 72771-72773.

The latter two were made up of cars pulled from the former, and were the ones used in container service.  So that's a qualified "Yes".

The "No" comes up because, first, the cars apparently got roller bearings fairly quickly after conversion.  Also, all the pictures of these cars in Thompson's book show additional reinforced ribs on the car side (2 per side) (see my photo).  He shows three shots of the container cars with the reinforcements.  But he also shows one shot of a car in the "regular" series with the reinforcements.  As you know, Sunshine did these cars.  It would appear doable to add the reinforcing ribs.  I don't think Sunshine offered this version, though I could be wrong.

I am attaching two overhead views of the car and the containers.  From the pictures, I don't see that there was any modification to the inside of the car for the containers.


Ed

Edward Sutorik

Attachments:



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: SOMETIMES YOU JUST HAVE TO BLINK

Tim O'Connor
 


This is what happened to at least one of those Greenville 1321's... :-)


On 8/20/2019 3:22 PM, WILLIAM PARDIE wrote:

If anyone is interested here are two of the three “oddballs” on my western railroad.

Thanks for all of the responses.  Your opinions are all valued.

Bill Pardie

Attachments:


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

what to do with all those leftover freight car trucks?

Tim O'Connor
 

Tom Swift has been posting wonderful pictures on Facebook of the CB&Q Havelock shops
in 1948. This one today shows a very interesting MP GS gondola being unloaded and a
wide area shot showing lots of interesting freight car stuff.

Tim O'Connor



--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*

Re: SOMETIMES YOU JUST HAVE TO BLINK

Staffan Ehnbom
 

The GN 72750-72773 series container gondolas was extended to 72774 by the July 1970 ORER at least.

Staffan Ehnbom



On Wed, Aug 21, 2019 at 6:54 AM Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Ed, thanks for the additional pictures! I'm especially happy the car is
coupled to a Southern Pacific hopper!

However you might want to check your number series - 72774 is not part of any
of the series you listed.

I agree the reinforced ribs are just that, and nothing more. I wish those
Sunshine kits were still available!

Tim O'Connor




On 8/20/2019 12:00 PM, spsalso via Groups.Io wrote:

Tim,

The answer to your question is:  "Yes" and "No".

There are three number series of interest:  GN 72500-72749, GN 72750-72770, and GN 72771-72773.

The latter two were made up of cars pulled from the former, and were the ones used in container service.  So that's a qualified "Yes".

The "No" comes up because, first, the cars apparently got roller bearings fairly quickly after conversion.  Also, all the pictures of these cars in Thompson's book show additional reinforced ribs on the car side (2 per side) (see my photo).  He shows three shots of the container cars with the reinforcements.  But he also shows one shot of a car in the "regular" series with the reinforcements.  As you know, Sunshine did these cars.  It would appear doable to add the reinforcing ribs.  I don't think Sunshine offered this version, though I could be wrong.

I am attaching two overhead views of the car and the containers.  From the pictures, I don't see that there was any modification to the inside of the car for the containers.


Ed

Edward Sutorik

Attachments:



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: MEK Substitute and current plastic cements

Donald B. Valentine
 

    OK folks, Bill Aldrich, whom as I mentioned has a doctorate Inorgamic Chemistry, kicked this cement business
around for about 45 minutes. For small plastic parts/pieces and such Bill uses ACC for almost everything. For other
things he uses acetone and keeps it in a bottle with a cork or rubber stopper to seal it tightly and not lose it from
evaporation. Pierre may not like this but Bill does NOT recommend MEK for plexiglass stating that it creates a weak
joint at best on all but very small pieces. He also uses ACC when joining sheet material and notes that cements
that actually dissolve sheet material to join them cause a warpage problem that may not show up for a year or more.
This is because even if the sheets being joined are of the same material all too often each sheet with cure at a different
rate. Since there is shrinkage involved in the curing a different rate in each sheet will cause warping. Thus he uses the
ACC for sheets as well as all small parts. He did note that MEK or trichloroethylene can be used but doesn't particularly
recommend them.

    Ambroid has been mentioned in several posts in this thread. Is it no longer available? Last I knew some ten years ago
a fellow in his mid-30's had purchased the line and moved it to Springfield, VT. I met him at some show or meet and he
was offering the standard old Ambroid cement in a tube and several new varieties in bottles. Is none of this available now?
Tenax has also been mentioned. In my experience it was never more than worthless. I was never able to join anything with
it and gave up with thje first bottle.

Hope this informaiton is helpful, Don Valentine

Re: MEK Substitute and current plastic cements

Denny Anspach
 

After a determined try with seven paint suppliers in this region, this was my result: Five had in hand or would only order MEK substitute. One had MEK in gallons @$49.00. One (Menard’s) had a deep shelf of MEK quarts @$9.50. The 20 miles drive to secure the latter was leavened completely by a nearby stunningly-delicious(!) supper of lengua, onions and cilantro (in Iowa, no less!).

I thank all of those who have divulged the chemical formulations. This kind of information will almost certainly be more and more useful for many in this hobby.

I am a big fan of Tamiya products, and I am surely going to try their thin cement. I have a can of their new-to-me semi-gloss clear coating that I am looking to for the many finishes that demand something more than dead flat, but not anywhere near a reflective gloss.

Denny


Denny S. Anspach MD
Okoboji, IA

Re: what to do with all those leftover freight car trucks?

Richard McQuade
 

Thanks Tom. Great gondola load. Would never have thought of doing that.
Richard

MEK Substitute and current plastic cements

Andy Carlson
 

Don, I can surmise that your chemist friend has never built styrene single sheathed patterns, at least not with ACC.

Years ago Al Armitage recommended MEK for styrene fabrication for multiple reasons. Not lost on me was his mentioning MEK is 100% evaporative--that is, every bit of MEK we use will dissipate away to nothingness. You may wonder why this is important; and it is to prevent sometime reactions of residual solvent with RTV mold material. The gentleman who mentored me on mold making and casting started out with model pattern making using Testors liquid cement and many of his early molds had problems curing completely. This was prevented with the switch to MEK.

I have evolved beyond being struck with warpage years ago. Laminating 0.005" styrene plates to a thicker styrene substrate caused lots of warping. That has been solved with a glueing technique I have shared with this group a few times over the years.

Regards to everyone!
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

On Wednesday, August 21, 2019, 6:09:33 AM PDT, Donald B. Valentine via Groups.Io <riverman_vt@...> wrote:


    OK folks, Bill Aldrich, whom as I mentioned has a doctorate Inorgamic Chemistry, kicked this cement business
around for about 45 minutes. For small plastic parts/pieces and such Bill uses ACC for almost everything. For other
things he uses acetone and keeps it in a bottle with a cork or rubber stopper to seal it tightly and not lose it from
evaporation.......He also uses ACC when joining sheet material and notes that cements
that actually dissolve sheet material to join them cause a warpage problem that may not show up for a year or more.
This is because even if the sheets being joined are of the same material all too often each sheet with cure at a different
rate. Since there is shrinkage involved in the curing a different rate in each sheet will cause warping. Thus he uses the
ACC for sheets as well as all small parts. He did note that MEK or trichloroethylene can be used but doesn't particularly
recommend them.


Hope this information is helpful, Don Valentine

Re: what to do with all those leftover freight car trucks?

Bob Chaparro
 

In the photo I see truck frames and car doors. Where are the bottle of MEK?
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA

Re: what to do with all those leftover freight car trucks?

BRIAN PAUL EHNI
 

In the paint shed.

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of "Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io" <chiefbobbb@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Wednesday, August 21, 2019 at 11:02 AM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] what to do with all those leftover freight car trucks?

 

In the photo I see truck frames and car doors. Where are the bottle of MEK?
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA

Re: what to do with all those leftover freight car trucks?

rwitt_2000
 

On Wed, Aug 21, 2019 at 02:15 AM, Tim O'Connor wrote:
Tom Swift has been posting wonderful pictures on Facebook of the CB&Q Havelock shops
in 1948. This one today shows a very interesting MP GS gondola being unloaded and a
wide area shot showing lots of interesting freight car stuff.

Tim O'Connor
Question: I assume these side frames are the raw castings. What if any areas and surfaces were machined before they became part of a functioning truck?

Bob Witt

Re: SOMETIMES YOU JUST HAVE TO BLINK

spsalso
 

Tim,

I don't think the "...reinforced ribs are just that...".

I think they are replacement ribs.  I think they removed the originals, and riveted the bigger better ones on, using mostly the same holes.

Note that the thickness of the sheet metal for the stamped rib is 3-4 times thicker than that of the adjacent rib.  And, of course, there's the addition of the bar stock over the new stamping.  I wonder if that happened when the replacement rib(s) was installed, or later.

Unless some kind soul offers these replacement ribs, I believe my modeling approach will be to assume the new ribs were added sometime after the cars were put into container service.  Though it would be Way-Kuul to model the car I photographed.  It also shows up in Thompson's book, so it's very popular.

The big-ribs weren't just added to the container gons.  One of the photos is of GN 72641--not in the special series.

When the big-ribs were added is kinda up in the air.  So I'll likely paint mine in "regular" GN (instead of the Big Sky black scheme) and run them in 1960.

And, yes, it would be great if the Sunshine kits "reappeared".  The prototype for the model was owned by GN, NP and SP&S.

Ed

Edward Sutorik

Re: SOMETIMES YOU JUST HAVE TO BLINK

Nolan Hinshaw
 

On Aug 21, 2019, at 09:20, spsalso via Groups.Io <Edwardsutorik=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

Tim,

I don't think the "...reinforced ribs are just that...".

I think they are replacement ribs. I think they removed the originals, and riveted the bigger better ones on, using mostly the same holes.
The rib in the close-up photos upthread looked a whole lot like a piece of rail to me, especially at the bottom end where the web was cut away. Anybody got a definitive statement (with citation) on the perpetration of these things?

^<@<.@*
}"_# |
-@$&/_%
!( @|=>
;`+$?^?
,#"~|)^G

Time's fun when you have flies (was what to do with all those leftover freight car trucks?)

Nolan Hinshaw
 

On Aug 20, 2019, at 23:15, Tim O'Connor <@timboconnor> wrote:

Tom Swift has been posting wonderful pictures on Facebook of the CB&Q Havelock shops
in 1948. This one today shows a very interesting MP GS gondola being unloaded and a
wide area shot showing lots of interesting freight car stuff.
That’s an impressive pair of shots. I can envision cooking up a master for casting a load of truck frames on a rapid prototyper of some sort, and emitting trainloads of loads from any resulting molds. An extension would be to have a vriety of truck types at hand, for different eras.

There was a time in my early adulthood when I might have attempted modeling the scene in the second photo; building the loads of loads would have benefitted from the idea above. I’m much better now.

^<@<.@*
}"_# |
-@$&/_%
!( @|=>
;`+$?^?
,#"~|)^G

Re: what to do with all those leftover freight car trucks?

Dennis Storzek
 

On Wed, Aug 21, 2019 at 09:10 AM, rwitt_2000 wrote:
Question: I assume these side frames are the raw castings. What if any areas and surfaces were machined before they became part of a functioning truck?
 I don't believe there is any machining on freight car trucks.   Clearances are figured so they can be used as cast. Same with Type E couplers.

Dennis Storzek