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Re: Helped needed with reefer identification

Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

Hello folks,

    I'm trying to assist an old friend who is not computer literate but is a serious New Haven modeler.
In the postwar period the New Haven had four Shoreline freights that left Boston every night at half hour
intervals beginning at 5:15 PM. These were known as The Four Horsemen, the second of which left at
5:45. Officially known as The Cannonball, operating personnel refered to it as The Fish because the
head end was always comprised of reefer loads of fish. My friend saw this train frequently but cannot
recall who owned the majority of these reefers. He specifically recalls that many of them had truss rods,
some being swaybacked, and all being very definitely yellow rather than orange. In one photo he took
during these years one appears to have had a circular herald on the end to the right of the door. Tony
Thompson has advised that they could not have been PFE for several reasons. I have suggested FGE
or WFE, with the latter having a smaller, circular GN goat herald than was used on boxcars. I've also
wondered about ART reefers but have trouble with truss rods in this periodon any of the three. These
fish loads were nearly exclusively headed for New York, Philadelphia, Baltimore and Washington, DC
delivery. There is also the possibility that the reefers belonged to some smaller owner or lessor of such
cars but have no idea of who that might have been. Does anyone have any good knowledge of the make
up of this train and the equipment used? It should also be noted that there was a later train with similar
cars that was not one of The four Horsemen but was commonly called the Second Fish. Any help in
determining the actual car ownership would be greatly appreciated.

Cordially, Don Valentine
Re: Terms For Freight Car Parts

mike turner
 

In this case, Southern used the poking platform as a brake step and as a step above the draft gear on the other end.

On 9/1/2019 7:27 PM, Tony Thompson wrote:
All the ore cars on the Minnesota Iron Range once had these platforms, too. Workmen could poke the sticky ore and get it to fall through the bottom doors.
Tony Thompson
tony@signaturepress.com

--
Mike Turner
MP-Z35
New York Stencil Drawings on eBay

rwitt_2000
 

This seller has various drawings (blueprints)  for NYC stencils on eBay. Several have initial dates of 1904 with the last revision as 1940.
New listing Old Vintage 1936 NEW YORK CENTRAL RAILROAD Blueprint Drawing - NUMBERS 4" Roman

Bob Witt
Re: Terms For Freight Car Parts

Tony Thompson
 

mike turner wrote:

To add to the list of terms, Southern Railway ordered hoppers with U.S. Gypsum 'poking platforms.'
All the ore cars on the Minnesota Iron Range once had these platforms, too. Workmen could poke the sticky ore and get it to fall through the bottom doors.

Tony Thompson
tony@signaturepress.com
Re: Terms For Freight Car Parts

mike turner
 

To add to the list of terms, Southern Railway ordered hoppers with U.S. Gypsum 'poking platforms.'

--
Mike Turner
MP-Z35
Re: Flat car sides

Greg Martin
 

Richard,

This article I authored was a way to use up the couple Revell/CON COR in my Jewells in the Junk Box.

Mainline Modeler - 11/1997 pp.26-29 Greg Martin makes improvements to the model to
  represent the AAR 50 ton flatcar C&O #80694; with HO scale drawings (thanks Tim)

The finished car is not perfect but a very good stand in for the AAR 50 ton Flat and with the help of the late Richard Hendrickson I got through it. He reminded me of the resin version he had developed under West Rails. I picked a prototype with close  relative interchanges to my PRR modeling. Alas the Life Like car hit the market only months later and the Revell car was overshadowed; however the continuing ideas of these "Jewells from The Junk Box" grew, eventually evolving into SHAKE N TAKE.

I bring it often to Cocoa Beach to see who recognizes it for what it is. Regardless, it is a simple project that have some noteworthy techniques for modeling. I have the second left to do and I will, time permitting. I also have at least four Life Like cars to do as well. They'll all be a great mix for my Bowser PRR flats. They need work as well and are simple and inexpensive.

I'd love to know more about the Model Power and the Tyco (SP) cars, both stand ins, but fun projects.

BEN???

Greg Martin


Why Yes I have done some modeling...

Sent from AOL Desktop

In a message dated 8/31/2019 3:36:56 PM Pacific Standard Time, richtownsend@... writes:

I know they are sow's ears, but I like making silk purses and am hoping for a prototype.
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR

--
Hey Boss,


Somehow I got deleted from this group in late May. I guess someone didn't like me. Jail is a lonely place.

Greg Martin 
Re: Flat car sides

Richard Townsend
 

Don, I'll be in DC next week and will check it out. Somewhere downstairs in my stash is an old Dynamodels HO scale sow with piglets. With an ear-ectomy I will have the proper material to work with. It'll be a bit fussy, but it's nice to know there's a prototype to have in mind. Thanks for your suggestion.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Donald B. Valentine via Groups.Io <riverman_vt@...>
To: main <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Sent: Sat, Aug 31, 2019 7:22 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Flat car sides

Actually Richard if you take a trip to the Smithsonian you can see a silk purse that Dupont
IIRC made from a sow's ear. I do not know if it was transported there in a STMFC freight car.

Cordially, Don Valentine
Re: Flat car sides

Tim O'Connor
 


Mainline Modeler - 11/1997 pp.26-29 Greg Martin makes improvements to the model to
  represent the AAR 50 ton flatcar C&O #80694; with HO scale drawings

Mainline Modeler - 7/1992 pp.72-76 article has descriptions of improvements to the
  model to make it a better replica; with scale drawings

Mainline Modeler - 7/1991 pp.29-32 simple changes to underframe and new ends to
  model a CB&Q FM-13 flatcar; with HO scale drawings



On 8/31/2019 9:09 PM, Bill Welch wrote:
Based on article I found in the hobby press—don't remember which magazine or date of—I used the Concor flat to create a very nice and I believe accurate, based on the article, a CB&Q flat car. The kit by that time was intended to be in TOFC service so I had to fill some holes in the deck. I installed new sill steps, grabs, etc.

Bill Welch 

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts
Re: SAL "STB" Logo on Boxcars

Tim O'Connor
 


Not later than 1959... perhaps earlier



On 8/31/2019 7:19 PM, Allen Cain wrote:
Thanks Tim, any idea when this marking first appeared on SAL boxcars?
Allen Cain


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts
Re: Mathieson Tank Cars

pennsylvania1954
 

Re: Mathieson Tank Cars

Brian Carlson
 

Per Ed Hawkins handout on the Kadee site. You are good.  You could do 10 cars total :)

On Aug 31, 2019, at 11:36 PM, Bruce Griffin <bdg1210@...> wrote:

Friends,

To close the loop on this thread, I ended up just buying a second Kadee ACF 11k insulated tank car with the same number as the first for the same bargain price of $30.  I assumed there was a SHPX 2571 roaming the rails with SHPX 2570. I don’t have access to all of my data so if anyone can confirm, it would be good to know, but I assume this to be true in 1950. I was able to easily remove the zero and replace it with a one. I will chronicle this in an upcoming blog. 

There were Mathieson plants shipping and recieving anhydrous ammonia at either end of my modeled section of the B&O Old Main Line, so these cars are appropriate for through freights in my 1950 era. Thank you for the insights.  

Best Regards,
Bruce Griffin
Ashland, MD 

PS for my PRR and NCR friends, I biked the RofW from Ashland 21 miles north to New Freedom and had lunch in the old station before heading home. 
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Re: Mathieson Tank Cars

Bruce Griffin
 

Friends,

To close the loop on this thread, I ended up just buying a second Kadee ACF 11k insulated tank car with the same number as the first for the same bargain price of $30.  I assumed there was a SHPX 2571 roaming the rails with SHPX 2570. I don’t have access to all of my data so if anyone can confirm, it would be good to know, but I assume this to be true in 1950. I was able to easily remove the zero and replace it with a one. I will chronicle this in an upcoming blog. 

There were Mathieson plants shipping and recieving anhydrous ammonia at either end of my modeled section of the B&O Old Main Line, so these cars are appropriate for through freights in my 1950 era. Thank you for the insights.  

Best Regards,
Bruce Griffin
Ashland, MD 

PS for my PRR and NCR friends, I biked the RofW from Ashland 21 miles north to New Freedom and had lunch in the old station before heading home. 
Re: Accurail part#131 36' floor parts

Robert kirkham
 

Thanks Dennis!  Good to know!

 

Rob

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dennis Storzek
Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2019 6:51 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Accurail part#131 36' floor parts

 

On Sat, Aug 31, 2019 at 11:10 AM, Robert kirkham wrote:

Was looking at the Accurail site, and considering  ordering their 36’ floors and brake sprues to retrofit some non-Accurail Fowler cars I have.

Rob, Eric correctly answered you question about the parts. When you get them, you'll note that there are four cross tie parts, but only three slots. The initial planning for the molds used the old Mainline Modeler drawings of the CPR Fowler carss for reference... and the CPR cars used four cross ties. When I actually had better builders drawings in hand, I came to realize that the Fowler cars built for US roads used only three cross ties, but I left the fourth part in case anyone wanted to use it. You'll have to fill the mounting slots with some strip styrene.

Dennis Storzek

Re: Flat car sides

Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

Actually Richard if you take a trip to the Smithsonian you can see a silk purse that Dupont
IIRC made from a sow's ear. I do not know if it was transported there in a STMFC freight car.

Cordially, Don Valentine
Re: Accurail part#131 36' floor parts

Dennis Storzek
 

On Sat, Aug 31, 2019 at 11:10 AM, Robert kirkham wrote:
Was looking at the Accurail site, and considering  ordering their 36’ floors and brake sprues to retrofit some non-Accurail Fowler cars I have.
Rob, Eric correctly answered you question about the parts. When you get them, you'll note that there are four cross tie parts, but only three slots. The initial planning for the molds used the old Mainline Modeler drawings of the CPR Fowler carss for reference... and the CPR cars used four cross ties. When I actually had better builders drawings in hand, I came to realize that the Fowler cars built for US roads used only three cross ties, but I left the fourth part in case anyone wanted to use it. You'll have to fill the mounting slots with some strip styrene.

Dennis Storzek
Re: Flat car sides

Bill Welch
 

Based on article I found in the hobby press—don't remember which magazine or date of—I used the Concor flat to create a very nice and I believe accurate, based on the article, a CB&Q flat car. The kit by that time was intended to be in TOFC service so I had to fill some holes in the deck. I installed new sill steps, grabs, etc.

Bill Welch
Re: SAL "STB" Logo on Boxcars

Allen Cain
 

Thanks Tim, any idea when this marking first appeared on SAL boxcars?
Allen Cain
Re: Flat car sides

Richard Townsend
 

I know they are sow's ears, but I like making silk purses and am hoping for a prototype.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Sat, Aug 31, 2019 1:50 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Flat car sides

Richard,

Consider WP 50' flat cars 2351-2400 (PC&F, 1937) and identical 2401-2700 (AC&F, 1942). The slope started just outboard of the 3rd stake pocket, actually just about mid-way between the truck spring pack and the journal box, and sloped down to even with the 5th stake pocket. Being 50' cars, they had 16 pockets on each side: https://wplives.org/collectionpageimages/freightcarimages/flatcars/wpmw_8674_022709_DSC_4645.jpg . Chad Boas offers a partial resin kit for these cars--underframe, sides and end sills cast in one piece, with a one-piece scribed wooden deck. You supply everything else.

I had one of the Con-Cor/Revell flat cars, and seem to remember the side sill was very deep, maybe because the the deck rode high, making the the narrow end parts of the side sill taller than they should have been. Model Power? Well, what else can I say . . . . it's Model Power.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 8/31/2019 2:29 PM, Richard Townsend via Groups.Io wrote:
Both the Revell/Concor (53'6") and Model Power (50') flat cars have sides where the slope down to the fishbelly begins at about the third stake pocket from the end and reaches full depth between the fourth and fifth stake pockets. Question: were there ANY prototype flat cars of ANY length that had sides like that? All I have seen have much shallower slopes to the full depth.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR
Two Single Sheathed Boxcars with Spliced Youngstown Doors

gary laakso
 

While at the angle of the picture, the doors seem to be spliced, they could be door and a half.  Does anyone recognize these cars?  The side ladders are short with 7 steps and likely two grab irons.   

 

https://searcharchives.vancouver.ca/uploads/r/null/9/1/919547/3d156a5a-8823-4ed0-b90b-f30bc1234c57-A28971.jpg 

 

You need to click on the picture to increase its size.

 

Gary Laakso

Northwest of Mike Brock

Re: Flat car sides

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Richard,

Consider WP 50' flat cars 2351-2400 (PC&F, 1937) and identical 2401-2700 (AC&F, 1942). The slope started just outboard of the 3rd stake pocket, actually just about mid-way between the truck spring pack and the journal box, and sloped down to even with the 5th stake pocket. Being 50' cars, they had 16 pockets on each side: https://wplives.org/collectionpageimages/freightcarimages/flatcars/wpmw_8674_022709_DSC_4645.jpg . Chad Boas offers a partial resin kit for these cars--underframe, sides and end sills cast in one piece, with a one-piece scribed wooden deck. You supply everything else.

I had one of the Con-Cor/Revell flat cars, and seem to remember the side sill was very deep, maybe because the the deck rode high, making the the narrow end parts of the side sill taller than they should have been. Model Power? Well, what else can I say . . . . it's Model Power.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 8/31/2019 2:29 PM, Richard Townsend via Groups.Io wrote:
Both the Revell/Concor (53'6") and Model Power (50') flat cars have sides where the slope down to the fishbelly begins at about the third stake pocket from the end and reaches full depth between the fourth and fifth stake pockets. Question: were there ANY prototype flat cars of ANY length that had sides like that? All I have seen have much shallower slopes to the full depth.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR
20781 - 20800 of 187380