Date   
Re: Helped needed with reefer identification

Donald B. Valentine
 

Hello folks,

    I'm trying to assist an old friend who is not computer literate but is a serious New Haven modeler.
In the postwar period the New Haven had four Shoreline freights that left Boston every night at half hour
intervals beginning at 5:15 PM. These were known as The Four Horsemen, the second of which left at
5:45. Officially known as The Cannonball, operating personnel refered to it as The Fish because the
head end was always comprised of reefer loads of fish. My friend saw this train frequently but cannot
recall who owned the majority of these reefers. He specifically recalls that many of them had truss rods,
some being swaybacked, and all being very definitely yellow rather than orange. In one photo he took
during these years one appears to have had a circular herald on the end to the right of the door. Tony
Thompson has advised that they could not have been PFE for several reasons. I have suggested FGE
or WFE, with the latter having a smaller, circular GN goat herald than was used on boxcars. I've also
wondered about ART reefers but have trouble with truss rods in this periodon any of the three. These
fish loads were nearly exclusively headed for New York, Philadelphia, Baltimore and Washington, DC
delivery. There is also the possibility that the reefers belonged to some smaller owner or lessor of such
cars but have no idea of who that might have been. Does anyone have any good knowledge of the make
up of this train and the equipment used? It should also be noted that there was a later train with similar
cars that was not one of The four Horsemen but was commonly called the Second Fish. Any help in
determining the actual car ownership would be greatly appreciated.

Cordially, Don Valentine

Re: Helped needed with reefer identification

anthony wagner
 

I agree with your thoughts that there were probably many FGEX and WFEX cars in those trains. Both reporting marks were freely mixed by Fruit Growers and both also still had truss rod cars in service then.  The New Haven was also one of the owners of the Fruit Growers consortium so that would have been a natural source of those reefers. Tony Wagner

On Monday, September 2, 2019, 8:10:31 AM CDT, Donald B. Valentine via Groups.Io <riverman_vt@...> wrote:


Hello folks,

    I'm trying to assist an old friend who is not computer literate but is a serious New Haven modeler.
In the postwar period the New Haven had four Shoreline freights that left Boston every night at half hour
intervals beginning at 5:15 PM. These were known as The Four Horsemen, the second of which left at
5:45. Officially known as The Cannonball, operating personnel refered to it as The Fish because the
head end was always comprised of reefer loads of fish. My friend saw this train frequently but cannot
recall who owned the majority of these reefers. He specifically recalls that many of them had truss rods,
some being swaybacked, and all being very definitely yellow rather than orange. In one photo he took
during these years one appears to have had a circular herald on the end to the right of the door. Tony
Thompson has advised that they could not have been PFE for several reasons. I have suggested FGE
or WFE, with the latter having a smaller, circular GN goat herald than was used on boxcars. I've also
wondered about ART reefers but have trouble with truss rods in this periodon any of the three. These
fish loads were nearly exclusively headed for New York, Philadelphia, Baltimore and Washington, DC
delivery. There is also the possibility that the reefers belonged to some smaller owner or lessor of such
cars but have no idea of who that might have been. Does anyone have any good knowledge of the make
up of this train and the equipment used? It should also be noted that there was a later train with similar
cars that was not one of The four Horsemen but was commonly called the Second Fish. Any help in
determining the actual car ownership would be greatly appreciated.

Cordially, Don Valentine

Tugs on Flatcars

Andy Laurent
 

Gents,

I found an interesting image of two US Army tugboats on 3 flatcars on the Wisconsin Maritime Museum's web archive. This is on the Ahnapee & Western Railway in Sturgeon Bay, WI in 1943. Hulls on the end cars, pilot houses on the center car.  I would assume that the openings in the deck would have been covered with canvas.  Could be a nice project for those little Sylvan tug kits.

https://wisconsinmaritime.pastperfectonline.com/photo/AC9F4214-546F-46BF-B409-355078807411 

from the collection: https://wisconsinmaritime.pastperfectonline.com/vocabulary 

Cheers,
Andy L
Wisconsin

For sale

Matthew Hurst
 

If this isn't allowed please remove

Hello all,

Decided to thin the heard over the Labor Day weekend

I have several items for sale if anyone is interested... Please respond off list at handbt33@...

I have:

3 Alco products PRR P70 coaches & combines (partially built)

ECW SL observation Undec

BCW restaurant/ lounge (PRR prototype) kit

Walthers PRR diner kit

2) PRR T1s (BLI #5536 super detailed and a Key imports 5500 as built unpainted)

Oriental limited M1 tender painted

PSC B&O Q4b painted lettered #4474

Mantua 0-6-0

Kadee 2 bay offset hopper Cambria & Indiana #647

Red caboose SP G-50-23 GS gondola composite

Red caboose SP S-40-5 stock car 1952 scheme #73357

Intermountain ATSF Rr-32 reefer "Scout" straight line map #35607

Northeastern scale models Unicel box car (Partial built)

Walthers /train miniature stock car kit Undec wood ends

Atlas 11k tank car UTLX/anchorgas #94614

Funaro and Camerlengo C&O 70t triple rebuilt hopper kit

Roundhouse pfaudler milk car Carling brewing

Rapido GARX meat reefer kit Undec

Also I have some buildings I have no use for

4 City classics buildings (Grant st., Penn ave., Baum blvd., East Ohio st.)

Walthers the works Blast Furnace kit

Just contact me OFF LIST. handbt33@...

Thanks,

Matthew Hurst

Re: Looking for photos of grain being loaded/unloaded in box cars

al.kresse
 

Looking for post WW2 photos of grain being moved in box cars.  C&O Walbridge Yard (Toledo) was still classifying ever more grain in box cars in 1962.


Thanks,


Al Kresse

On September 2, 2019 at 10:27 AM anthony wagner <anycw1@...> wrote:

 
I agree with your thoughts that there were probably many FGEX and WFEX cars in those trains. Both reporting marks were freely mixed by Fruit Growers and both also still had truss rod cars in service then.  The New Haven was also one of the owners of the Fruit Growers consortium so that would have been a natural source of those reefers. Tony Wagner

On Monday, September 2, 2019, 8:10:31 AM CDT, Donald B. Valentine via Groups.Io <riverman_vt@...> wrote:


Hello folks,

    I'm trying to assist an old friend who is not computer literate but is a serious New Haven modeler.
In the postwar period the New Haven had four Shoreline freights that left Boston every night at half hour
intervals beginning at 5:15 PM. These were known as The Four Horsemen, the second of which left at
5:45. Officially known as The Cannonball, operating personnel refered to it as The Fish because the
head end was always comprised of reefer loads of fish. My friend saw this train frequently but cannot
recall who owned the majority of these reefers. He specifically recalls that many of them had truss rods,
some being swaybacked, and all being very definitely yellow rather than orange. In one photo he took
during these years one appears to have had a circular herald on the end to the right of the door. Tony
Thompson has advised that they could not have been PFE for several reasons. I have suggested FGE
or WFE, with the latter having a smaller, circular GN goat herald than was used on boxcars. I've also
wondered about ART reefers but have trouble with truss rods in this periodon any of the three. These
fish loads were nearly exclusively headed for New York, Philadelphia, Baltimore and Washington, DC
delivery. There is also the possibility that the reefers belonged to some smaller owner or lessor of such
cars but have no idea of who that might have been. Does anyone have any good knowledge of the make
up of this train and the equipment used? It should also be noted that there was a later train with similar
cars that was not one of The four Horsemen but was commonly called the Second Fish. Any help in
determining the actual car ownership would be greatly appreciated.

Cordially, Don Valentine


 


 

Re: Helped needed with reefer identification

Bruce A. Metcalf
 

On 9/2/19 9:10 AM, Donald B. Valentine via Groups.Io wrote:

In the postwar period the New Haven had four Shoreline freights that left Boston every night at half hour intervals beginning at 5:15 PM.
... My friend saw this train frequently but cannot recall who owned
the majority of these reefers. He specifically recalls that many of
them had truss rods, some being swaybacked, and all being very
definitely yellow rather than orange. In one photo he took during
these years one appears to have had a circular herald on the end to
the right of the door. ... Does anyone have any good knowledge of the
make up of this train and the equipment used? It should also be noted
that there was a later train with similar cars that was not one of
The four Horsemen but was commonly called the Second Fish. Any help
in determining the actual car ownership would be greatly
appreciated.
You might find some useful ideas in:

"The great yellow fleet : a history of American railroad refrigerator cars" by John H White, San Marino, Calif. : Golden West Books, 1989.

Don't have a copy at hand presently, but it's where I would look first.

Cheers,
/ Bruce /

Re: Helped needed with reefer identification (Great Yellow Fleet)

Bob Chaparro
 

Unfortunately, this book is flawed. The late Richard Hendrickson noted, “The first half of the book on the 19th and early 20th century development of refrigerator cars was, in fact, written entirely by Jack White, and you can take whatever he wrote on the subject to the bank. However, most of the second half of the text and photo captions was written by White's publisher and silent collaborator, Donald Duke, and there are errors of fact or interpretation on almost every page. Duke has a fine track record as a publisher but an abysmal one as a researcher…. Regrettably, you can't believe in the accuracy of anything you read in the second half of the book…”

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Re: Tugs on Flatcars

Bruce Smith
 

Andy,


Awesome photo!  Here are two shots from the Signal Corps Archives, formerly available through the Library of Va, showing two identical vessels on flat cars awaiting shipment at Portsmouth VA. In this case, the location of the pilot houses is covered by a "tent" of what appears to be plywood.


Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Andy Laurent via Groups.Io <andy.laurent@...>
Sent: Monday, September 2, 2019 9:29 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Tugs on Flatcars
 
Gents,

I found an interesting image of two US Army tugboats on 3 flatcars on the Wisconsin Maritime Museum's web archive. This is on the Ahnapee & Western Railway in Sturgeon Bay, WI in 1943. Hulls on the end cars, pilot houses on the center car.  I would assume that the openings in the deck would have been covered with canvas.  Could be a nice project for those little Sylvan tug kits.

https://wisconsinmaritime.pastperfectonline.com/photo/AC9F4214-546F-46BF-B409-355078807411 

from the collection: https://wisconsinmaritime.pastperfectonline.com/vocabulary 

Cheers,
Andy L
Wisconsin

Re: Tugs on Flatcars

Bruce Smith
 

Let's try adding the photos 😉


From: Bruce F. Smith
Sent: Monday, September 2, 2019 4:44:32 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Tugs on Flatcars
 

Andy,


Awesome photo!  Here are two shots from the Signal Corps Archives, formerly available through the Library of Va, showing two identical vessels on flat cars awaiting shipment at Portsmouth VA. In this case, the location of the pilot houses is covered by a "tent" of what appears to be plywood.


Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Andy Laurent via Groups.Io <andy.laurent@...>
Sent: Monday, September 2, 2019 9:29 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Tugs on Flatcars
 
Gents,

I found an interesting image of two US Army tugboats on 3 flatcars on the Wisconsin Maritime Museum's web archive. This is on the Ahnapee & Western Railway in Sturgeon Bay, WI in 1943. Hulls on the end cars, pilot houses on the center car.  I would assume that the openings in the deck would have been covered with canvas.  Could be a nice project for those little Sylvan tug kits.

https://wisconsinmaritime.pastperfectonline.com/photo/AC9F4214-546F-46BF-B409-355078807411 

from the collection: https://wisconsinmaritime.pastperfectonline.com/vocabulary 

Cheers,
Andy L
Wisconsin

Re: Tugs on Flatcars

Bill Welch
 

I did know the Army had its own Navy.

Bill Welch

Re: Helped needed with reefer identification

Bill Welch
 

Anthony is correct on all counts. Love to see that photo your friend took Don.

Bill Welch

Re: Tugs on Flatcars

Daniel A. Mitchell
 

They had, and have, a variety of landing craft and combat engineering vessels. Separately, but don’t forget the Army Engineers with their fleet of dredges, snag boats, and support craft.

Dan Mitchell
==========

On Sep 2, 2019, at 5:45 PM, Bruce Smith <@smithbf> wrote:

<tugboats on flats.jpg>

Re: Helped needed with reefer identification (Great Yellow Fleet)

Donald B. Valentine
 

Thanks Bruce & Bob,

     The Great Yellow Fleet was about the first place I looked but it didn't offer an thing of any use. The second have may not be good, Bob, but I also question the title. The Great Yellow & Orange Fleet might have been more appropriate. Even a good set
of CarBuilders Cyclopedias were not much help with these cars.

Cordially, Don Valentine

Rocket Express Models Announced a new RI Stock Car

gary laakso
 

The kit is their number 6.1 or 6.2 and it is a model of the stock cars that the RI purchased from Ryan Car Company in 1930 in the 75000-75249 series.  The announcement noted that 6.1 is with AB brakes and 6.2 with KC brakes.  The prices are $65.00 each and include Tahoe Model Works trucks.  Shipping is $5.00.  The announcement was in the most recent issue of the Rock Island Reporter.  The website has not been updated. 

 

Gary Laakso

Northwest of Mike Brock

Re: Tugs on Flatcars

Nolan Hinshaw
 

On Sep 2, 2019, at 15:37, Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:

I did know the Army had its own Navy.
MSTS Forever! A good friend, Cdr USN Ret., did his time in that service. I need to forward the railbound tugs images to him.

^<@<.@*
}"_# |
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!( @|=>
;`+$?^?
,#"~|)^G

Re: Rocket Express Models Announced a new RI Stock Car

Douglas Harding
 

Picked up one at Collinsville RPM last month. Looks to be a very nice kit, no flash. I believe Steve Hile assisted with some of the prototype research. I’m traveling right now, so can’t go to basement and look to verify.

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of gary laakso
Sent: Monday, September 2, 2019 8:25 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Rocket Express Models Announced a new RI Stock Car

 

The kit is their number 6.1 or 6.2 and it is a model of the stock cars that the RI purchased from Ryan Car Company in 1930 in the 75000-75249 series.  The announcement noted that 6.1 is with AB brakes and 6.2 with KC brakes.  The prices are $65.00 each and include Tahoe Model Works trucks.  Shipping is $5.00.  The announcement was in the most recent issue of the Rock Island Reporter.  The website has not been updated. 

 

Gary Laakso

Northwest of Mike Brock

Re: Tugs on Flatcars

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Friends,

When I visited the Army Transportation Museum at Ft. Eustus, Virginia about 35 years ago, one of these 45' tugs was plinthed along with some cool railroad equipment. Photo is attached.

For more about the museum, see https://transportation.army.mil/museum/index.html . There are few paragraphs about the Army's "Navy" on the site, though pretty spare.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff


On 9/2/2019 10:29 AM, Andy Laurent via Groups.Io wrote:
Gents,

I found an interesting image of two US Army tugboats on 3 flatcars on the Wisconsin Maritime Museum's web archive. This is on the Ahnapee & Western Railway in Sturgeon Bay, WI in 1943. Hulls on the end cars, pilot houses on the center car.  I would assume that the openings in the deck would have been covered with canvas.  Could be a nice project for those little Sylvan tug kits.

https://wisconsinmaritime.pastperfectonline.com/photo/AC9F4214-546F-46BF-B409-355078807411 

from the collection: https://wisconsinmaritime.pastperfectonline.com/vocabulary 

Cheers,
Andy L
Wisconsin

RPM Chicagoland

Jeremy Dummler
 

The 26th annual RPM Chicagoland event will be held October 24-26th at the Sheraton hotel in Lisle, IL.  The event will once again feature three days of clinics on a variety of model railroad topics, a display room for your models, vendors, and friends.  These events are always a chance to learn new things and share the hobby.

Registration is now open at rpmconference.com.  Hotel reservations for the RPM Chicagoland room block can also be accessed through the website as well.  Early registration ends September 22nd.  

Jeremy Dummler
RPM Chicagoland Team

Re: Rocket Express Models Announced a new RI Stock Car

Bill Welch
 

Built both of Ron's SS RI kits, 50-ft and 40-ft. Yes they are flat kits but well done w/sharp decals. I keep urging him to to do other roads but understand his commitment to RI.

Bill Welch

USATC WWII tank cars

Fred Jansz
 

In 1944, after the invasion in Normandy, France, the US brought a large amount of engines & cars to Europe. Among those many Whitecomb engines and a large amount of double dome tank cars. These engines and cars served in Holland after the war -while waiting for our own diesels & cars. I've bought a HO-scale kit of the whitecomb engine which served as power -sometimes doubled- for the oil can trains overhere. These trains were mainly made up of the USATC double dome tank cars, that were leased to various oil companies. European manufacturer Roco did a run of these years ago (pictures) Not being a tank car specialist, my question to you is; 'is there an American HO-scale alternative for these rather crude Roco cars'? (which are rare too).
Best regards from Holland, Fred Jansz