Date   
Re: [MFCL] ART #200 - #299 36 ft. reefer

Donald B. Valentine
 

Hello Ed,

    I want to thank you not only for the full information on this ART car, which I had somehow looked right by in my 1931 CarBuilders, but more for the
generosity you have continually provided to those of us with an interest in older rolling stock. From my own research on some subjects I can imagine
the hours u have invested in collecting what you have. I see it as an investment, a great investment in time and effort, which has been such a
precious resource for all of us with whom you have shared it. So thank you once again.

   I do not know where this will lead but am still trying to determine what the cars were that Bill Aldrich remembers so well from his high school days at
the end of WW II when he and his father, a New Haven executive, would often go to a nearby New Haven station to watch at least two of The Four Horseman
roll by in the early evening, the second of which always always had a number of yellow sided reefers with truss rods that were loaded with freshly caught
fish for the markets of New York, Philadelphia, Baltimore and Washington. Bill will be 90 in two weeks and is hopeful that someone will recall whose cars
the were so he can model them correctly. He has been a good friend for many years so I'm doing what I can to assist as he has nothing to do with
computers.

My best to all, Don Valentine

Re: Crappy Job

Alex Huff
 

Look up Milorganite.  It is a processed product of the City of Milwaukee's sewage treatment system.  Sold since 1925.  Popular use is as a bagged fertilizer for lawns and golf courses.  Michigan Northern Railway delivered one MILW 40' boxcar a year to Rockford, MI's golf course.  It was a team track delivery.  No odor.  Empty car was then switched to the loading dock of Wolverine World Wide's leather tanning factory in Rockford.  Loaded with scrap leather trimmings, the car was interchanged to the C&O at Reed City, MI for a carferry move from Ludington, MI to Milwaukee.
Alex Huff

Re: Oregon short line stock cars

Ray Breyer
 

>>Seeking any images or confirmation that 36 ‘ stock cars existed in the 1930/40 time period 
>>Brad Andonian 


Just crack open a few ORERS, and you'll have all the evidence you'll ever need.

12/1930 ORER:
OSL - 2887
OWR&N - 544
LA&SL - 191
UP - 2733
(100% of the stock car fleet were under 40' long)

1/1945 ORER:
OSL - 2034 (and 370 40-foot)
OWR&N - 464
LA&SL - 142
UP - 2287 (and 556 40-foot)
(84% of the stock fleet were short cars)

1/1955 ORER:
OSL 6 (and 334 40-foot)
OWR&N - 1
UP - 929 (and 2069 40-foot)
(28% of the stock fleet were short cars)

1/1959 ORER:
UP - 840 (and 2683 40-foot)
(24% of the stock car fleet were short cars)


Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL


Re: [MFCL] ART #200 - #299 36 ft. reefer

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi Don and Ed,

I have the following info from The Banner, that may or may not add new info beyond Ed's in-depth reply.




The Banner
Winter 1996
Pg 14

American Refrigerator Transit Co
12/1950 Information

Sheathing: wood
Series: 200
No of cars: 92
Blt: 8-30
Capacity: 8000
Service: dairy
Bunkers: half
Other: Stenciled over door DAIRY PRODUCTS  reference photo of ART 247 '37 CBC pg 188 photo of ARTBX 


Good luck on your project! 

Claus Schlund 



On Sep 6, 2019 02:02, Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@...> wrote:


On Sep 5, 2019, at 7:33 PM, Donald B. Valentine via Groups.Io <riverman_vt@...> wrote:

Hi folks,

    I'm hoping that someone on this list might have a photo of an ART #200 - #299 36 ft. reefer in the postwar period.
Supposedly these cars had truss rods, if one can believe the Athearn/Roundhouse model. I believe the carbodies
were yellow and the roof & ends brown. The lettering, or mostly the herald, on the Athearn/aRoundhouse model
looks a little large for the postwar period, which is chief reason a photo fr that era is sought. It is shows the roof or
"B" end so much the better.

Thanks for any help that can be found, Don Valentine

Don, 
In 1940 George Sisk photographed ART 247 from series 200-299, built in July 1930 by the Mount Vernon Car Manufacturing Co. The cars with wood sides & ends had steel fish-belly center sills. These cars never had truss rods.

A builder photo of ARTBX 299 was published on p. 177 of the 1931 Car Builders’ Cyclopedia & p. 188 of the 1937 CBC. The original ARTBX reporting marks were changed to ARTX by 2/32. The reporting marks became simply ART sometime after 7-38 to 5-40 per reweigh stencils on ART 247. 

The sides were yellow, and the ends & roof were brown (often referred to by ART as Inco Red). The 1940 photo appears much like the builder photo, except with normal “ART” reporting marks stencils used in 1940 and lacking the original Brine Tank stencils. Still used were Dairy Products stencils above the side door. 

The ART 247 photo is the only in-service photo from the 200-299 series I’ve come across. Regarding postwar schemes applied to these cars, it’s speculative to discuss given these cars were about 3 or 4 feet shorter in overall length than 40’ ART wood or steel refrigerator cars.

It seems logical to me that repainted cars in 1948-1950 would have received the added railroad monograms to the left of the door above the reporting marks. I'm dubious if the 1951 lettering with the larger Wabash flag and red & white MP “buzz-saw” emblem to the right of the door, which ART’s 40’ reefers received, would have all fit on these 200-299 series cars of shorter overall length.

Hope this helps.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins








Re: Crappy Job

passcars
 

I feel sorry for the gondola, "was" a nice car.  And the poor guys having to shovel the stuff out.  It's ripe and still cookin'.
Steve Peery

Re: [MFCL] ART #200 - #299 36 ft. reefer

Ed Hawkins
 



On Sep 5, 2019, at 7:33 PM, Donald B. Valentine via Groups.Io <riverman_vt@...> wrote:

Hi folks,

    I'm hoping that someone on this list might have a photo of an ART #200 - #299 36 ft. reefer in the postwar period.
Supposedly these cars had truss rods, if one can believe the Athearn/Roundhouse model. I believe the carbodies
were yellow and the roof & ends brown. The lettering, or mostly the herald, on the Athearn/aRoundhouse model
looks a little large for the postwar period, which is chief reason a photo fr that era is sought. It is shows the roof or
"B" end so much the better.

Thanks for any help that can be found, Don Valentine

Don, 
In 1940 George Sisk photographed ART 247 from series 200-299, built in July 1930 by the Mount Vernon Car Manufacturing Co. The cars with wood sides & ends had steel fish-belly center sills. These cars never had truss rods.

A builder photo of ARTBX 299 was published on p. 177 of the 1931 Car Builders’ Cyclopedia & p. 188 of the 1937 CBC. The original ARTBX reporting marks were changed to ARTX by 2/32. The reporting marks became simply ART sometime after 7-38 to 5-40 per reweigh stencils on ART 247. 

The sides were yellow, and the ends & roof were brown (often referred to by ART as Inco Red). The 1940 photo appears much like the builder photo, except with normal “ART” reporting marks stencils used in 1940 and lacking the original Brine Tank stencils. Still used were Dairy Products stencils above the side door. 

The ART 247 photo is the only in-service photo from the 200-299 series I’ve come across. Regarding postwar schemes applied to these cars, it’s speculative to discuss given these cars were about 3 or 4 feet shorter in overall length than 40’ ART wood or steel refrigerator cars.

It seems logical to me that repainted cars in 1948-1950 would have received the added railroad monograms to the left of the door above the reporting marks. I'm dubious if the 1951 lettering with the larger Wabash flag and red & white MP “buzz-saw” emblem to the right of the door, which ART’s 40’ reefers received, would have all fit on these 200-299 series cars of shorter overall length.

Hope this helps.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins







Oregon short line stock cars

Brad Andonian
 

Seeking any images or confirmation that 36 ‘ stock cars existed in the 1930/40 time period 

Many thanks
Brad Andonian 



Re: Crappy Job

Patrick Wade
 

Perhaps needed by a seed company to feed seed corn plants or to throw down by a landscaper before planting a new lawn. As a kid in Cleveland in the 1950s I remember living in a new apartment development and all the bare lawns were given a cover of horse manure.

Pat Wade
Santa Barbara, CA

On Thu, Sep 5, 2019 at 6:55 PM Doc Bond <boomer1944@...> wrote:
Why would anyone want to ship a load of manure? ... or ... receive?... no political comment.

Gordon Spalty... city boy...:)

Re: Crappy Job

Dennis Storzek
 

On Thu, Sep 5, 2019 at 06:55 PM, Doc Bond wrote:
Why would anyone want to ship a load of manure?
Hey, for a while in the seventies or eighties the City of Chicago was shipping dried sewage treatment plant solids downstate for use as fertilizer... until it was discovered that the solids were rich in heavy metals, which were being taken up by the crops and entering our food chain. I recall the movement on the Illinois Central was known informally as the "ICBM".

Dennis Storzek

Re: Crappy Job

Charles Peck
 

The why?  Those stockyards had to get rid of it somehow and it was cheap fertilizer on the farm.
Chuck Peck

On Thu, Sep 5, 2019 at 9:55 PM Doc Bond <boomer1944@...> wrote:
Why would anyone want to ship a load of manure? ... or ... receive?... no political comment.

Gordon Spalty... city boy...:)

Re: Crappy Job

 

Why would anyone want to ship a load of manure? ... or ... receive?... no political comment.

Gordon Spalty... city boy...:)

Re: [MFCL] ART #200 - #299 36 ft. reefer

Donald B. Valentine
 

Hi folks,

    I'm hoping that someone on this list might have a photo of an ART #200 - #299 36 ft. reefer in the postwar period.
Supposedly these cars had truss rods, if one can believe the Athearn/Roundhouse model. I believe the carbodies
were yellow and the roof & ends brown. The lettering, or mostly the herald, on the Athearn/aRoundhouse model
looks a little large for the postwar period, which is chief reason a photo fr that era is sought. It is shows the roof or
"B" end so much the better.

Thanks for any help that can be found, Don Valentine

Re: Crappy Job

Andy Laurent
 

They are UNloading this car, by hand into the wagon and truck in the background...  The caption information notes it is a car from Chicago.  I have records of 6 gondolas of manure shipped from Union Stock Yards in Chicago to a fruit orchard near Sturgeon Bay, WI in the late 40s.  The cars were unloaded in late spring on an industry lead in downtown Sturgeon Bay on 1st Ave...and employees of the time noted that the smell was horrendous, even after the cars were unloaded.  It was a one-time shipment, similar to a two-car shipment of horses in stock cars in 1949...all were so badly injured that they had to be put down.

Yummy.

Andy L.
Wisconsin

Out of Office September 6-23

Dave Lotz
 

Hello,

I will be out of the office from September 6th until September 23rd.

For BRHS matters, please contact Tom Whitt, otherwise, I will respond to you
email when I return.

Thanks for your patience!

Dave Lotz

Re: Crappy Job

Eric Hansmann
 

Well, it’s got to go somewhere, right? That looks like an all day job.

 

I see steam coming off of the loads in the wagon and the trucks. It’s probably keeping the workers warm on a chilly day. Doing this on a hot August day would be at the bottom of a task list.

 

Check out the little boys on the tractor.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Matt Smith
Sent: Thursday, September 5, 2019 12:20 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Crappy Job

 

From the Illinois Digital Archives - Pantagraph (Bloomington IL local paper) Collection.

Frisco gondola with manure being unloaded from Chicago 3/24/44.

This is a C&A siding near the Funk Bros Seed company on Bloomingtons west side. Download Available via link.

http://www.idaillinois.org/digital/collection/p16614coll35/id/34018/rec/310
--
Matt Smith
Bloomington, IL

Re: Detailing Tichy 2-Bay USRA hopper

Bill Welch
 

I appreciate the info Bob but i am modeling October 1955 when the stenciling would be very different. Also for this particular design I am only focused on the "Ya'll" roads that owned them, originals and copies.

Bill Welch

Re: Detailing Tichy 2-Bay USRA hopper

Bob Webber
 

CC&O, DL&W, LV, D&H, B&O, BR&P, P&R, NYC, ERR, NYNH&H & BLE are listed on the United States Standard lettering diagram for 55-ton hopper cars dated Oct. 1919 - stenciling drawings and details are also available. For this and Gons, Boxes, Cabooses (composite and steel, etc. Brake drawings, (including one for the 100-ton gon) Ventilated Box, Auto Car - so if The Boys so chose, they can get the information.

At 03:59 PM 9/5/2019, Bill Welch wrote:

A few years ago the Boys at the Clearwater Car Shops built a few of the Tichy USRA 2-bay hoppers for their favorite railroads. Some purest don’t like this kit because the two middle panels are wider than the other panels (legend has it that this was a compromise to related to getting enough room for the trucks). No matter, the Boys love this kit, as it requires only a few additional details to make it appropriate for the various railroads the boys work for. The L&N and Clinchfield owned the USRA cars while the L&N, NC&StL, and Tennessee Central owned copies—in the case of the L&N they owned thousands of copies.

The Boys built this model as a NC&StL car but they never got around to giving it a coat of Oxide Red paint. Recently the Boys got very excited when they discovered a photo of one of these cars stenciled for the Tennessee Central since up close photos of these cars in TC stenciling have proved to been very elusive. The rare photo revealed that the TC and NC&StL cars are identical down to their use of Two-Level Dalman trucks. The gears starting turning and they were able to persuade a friend to do a set of decals. So the Boys are now planning to paint this car black. Before they do so they suggested I share few photos so people can what they details they added.

On the sides they added Route Card Holders on the right end on the sill plus the carved styrene from the Bolsters to thin them. The Boys did their usual manipulating to A-Line Type “Aâ€&#65533; brass sill steps to duplicate those used on the prototype. On the right side they added the Airline Pipe, Pipe Brackets, and Pipe Union.

On the ends 0.005 styrene was used to create the Mounting Bracket for the Reservoir and Bracket for the Brake Staff. An A-Line Sill Step serves as a bracket at the bottom of the Brake Shaft while a Tichy nut/bolt/washer (NBW) serves to hold the brake wheel tight on the brake shaft. For some reason the ends are devoid of NBW detail so I added Detail Associates parts above where the end grab irons are installed. In looking the photos I see I still need to add a few NBW’s for the short and long left side grabs and for the long grab on the right side of each end. The model will ride on the beautiful Tahoe Dalman trucks.

Bill Welch

Attachments:
* <https://RealSTMFC.groups.io/g/main/attachment/166678/0>_1 Tichy USRA 2-bay hopper right side detail additions.JPG
* <https://RealSTMFC.groups.io/g/main/attachment/166678/1>_2 Tichy USRA 2-bay hopper Airline details.JPG
* <https://RealSTMFC.groups.io/g/main/attachment/166678/2>_3 Tichy USRA 2-bay hopper Sill Step.JPG
* <https://RealSTMFC.groups.io/g/main/attachment/166678/3>_4 Tichy USRA 2-bay hopper _B_ end details.JPG
* <https://RealSTMFC.groups.io/g/main/attachment/166678/4>_5Tichy USRA 2-bay hopper Air Reservoir bracket.JPG
* <https://RealSTMFC.groups.io/g/main/attachment/166678/5>_6 Tichy USRA 2-bay hopper brake shaft, brake wheel _ retainer valve details.JPG
Bob Webber

Detailing Tichy 2-Bay USRA hopper

Bill Welch
 

A few years ago the Boys at the Clearwater Car Shops built a few of the Tichy USRA 2-bay hoppers for their favorite railroads. Some purest don’t like this kit because the two middle panels are wider than the other panels (legend has it that this was a compromise to related to getting enough room for the trucks). No matter, the Boys love this kit, as it requires only a few additional details to make it appropriate for the various railroads the boys work for. The L&N and Clinchfield owned the USRA cars while the L&N, NC&StL, and Tennessee Central owned copies—in the case of the L&N they owned thousands of copies.

The Boys built this model as a NC&StL car but they never got around to giving it a coat of Oxide Red paint. Recently the Boys got very excited when they discovered a photo of one of these cars stenciled for the Tennessee Central since up close photos of these cars in TC stenciling have proved to been very elusive. The rare photo revealed that the TC and NC&StL cars are identical down to their use of Two-Level Dalman trucks. The gears starting turning and they were able to persuade a friend to do a set of decals. So the Boys are now planning to paint this car black. Before they do so they suggested I share few photos so people can what they details they added.

On the sides they added Route Card Holders on the right end on the sill plus the carved styrene from the Bolsters to thin them. The Boys did their usual manipulating to A-Line Type “A” brass sill steps to duplicate those used on the prototype. On the right side they added the Airline Pipe, Pipe Brackets, and Pipe Union.

On the ends 0.005 styrene was used to create the Mounting Bracket for the Reservoir and Bracket for the Brake Staff. An A-Line Sill Step serves as a bracket at the bottom of the Brake Shaft while a Tichy nut/bolt/washer (NBW) serves to hold the brake wheel tight on the brake shaft. For some reason the ends are devoid of NBW detail so I added Detail Associates parts above where the end grab irons are installed. In looking the photos I see I still need to add a few NBW’s for the short and long left side grabs and for the long grab on the right side of each end. The model will ride on the beautiful Tahoe Dalman trucks.

Bill Welch

Re: Crappy Job

BRIAN PAUL EHNI
 

“Well, I shoveled s417 in Louisiana” 

Thanks!
Brian Ehni 
(Sent from my iPhone)

On Sep 5, 2019, at 3:41 PM, Jim Gates via Groups.Io <jim.gates@...> wrote:


What did you do in the Great World War Two?

One extra point if you recognize the movie.

Jim Gates
On Thursday, September 5, 2019, 12:20:15 PM CDT, Matt Smith <flyn96@...> wrote:


From the Illinois Digital Archives - Pantagraph (Bloomington IL local paper) Collection.

Frisco gondola with manure being unloaded from Chicago 3/24/44.

This is a C&A siding near the Funk Bros Seed company on Bloomingtons west side. Download Available via link.

http://www.idaillinois.org/digital/collection/p16614coll35/id/34018/rec/310
--
Matt Smith
Bloomington, IL

Re: Crappy Job

Jim Gates
 


What did you do in the Great World War Two?

One extra point if you recognize the movie.

Jim Gates

On Thursday, September 5, 2019, 12:20:15 PM CDT, Matt Smith <flyn96@...> wrote:


From the Illinois Digital Archives - Pantagraph (Bloomington IL local paper) Collection.

Frisco gondola with manure being unloaded from Chicago 3/24/44.

This is a C&A siding near the Funk Bros Seed company on Bloomingtons west side. Download Available via link.

http://www.idaillinois.org/digital/collection/p16614coll35/id/34018/rec/310
--
Matt Smith
Bloomington, IL