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Re: C&O Lake Michigan Ferries, was Crappy Job
Dennis Storzek
On Wed, Sep 11, 2019 at 01:19 PM, Daniel A. Mitchell wrote:
Yes, the “Chief” was scrapped, but first she was cut down to a barge and sailed about the lakes for several years before being cut up.If I remember correctly, the Chief's engine was saved, and now resides in the Wisconsin Maritime Museum in Manitowoc. The Chief was the last triple expansion reciprocating engines boat operating on the Lakes. The Badger is steam, but equipped with Skinner Unaflow engines. Dennis Storzek
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Re: C&O Lake Michigan Ferries, was Crappy Job
Yes, the “Chief” was scrapped, but first she was cut down to a barge and sailed about the lakes for several years before being cut up.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
And nobody has yet mentioned the various railroad river ferries. These were operated by the C&O, Pere Marquette, N&W, and CN at least. All, or nearly all were originally self-propelled boats, but in later years those that survived (sort of) were cut down to barges (car floats) and used about by tugs (Towboats). This cut the crew requirements to about a third of those required to operate the original ferry. CN had two such towboat-barge assemblies at Port Huron, MI, operating to Sarnia, Ont. C&O had one similar ferry at the same location. The CN barges (cut-down ex PM ferries) were interesting, in that they still had all their original equipment below decks. The boilers and engines, etc., were al still “down there”. Exploring below decks was challenging … little light, and lots of lifted deckplates. One wrong step and you were in for a fall into the bilges. The two towboats (Margaret York and Phyllis York) were very similar, but one had twin Cat. outdrives, and other had three. There was also one spare car float, that was an almost complete self-propelled ferry with most or all of it’s upper-works intact. Supposedly it came from somewhere in the Canadian “Maritimes”. I never saw it used. A few of us knew one of the CN Captains, and could go over to Port Huron or Sarnia and ride the boats whenever we wanted. The Captain worked mostly at night, so that’s when we rode. We’d make three or so crossings each night. Lots of fun. In the winter sometimes a big ice flow would come down the river and push the entire ferry way down river before they could bust free. Many memories, all long past. The car float aprons are all still there, now used mostly by fishermen. The tracks are long gone. Dan Mitchell ==========
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Re: C&O Lake Michigan Ferries, was Crappy Job
Robert J Miller CFA
Here’s a photo of the Chief Wawatam taken 12/29/1978 at the dock in St. Ignace, Michigan
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Thomas Evans via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2019 2:23 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] C&O Lake Michigan Ferries, was Crappy Job
Nobody has yet mentioned the Chief Wawatam.
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Re: C&O Lake Michigan Ferries, was Crappy Job
Nobody has yet mentioned the Chief Wawatam.
Unfortunately, I understand that she was scrapped 10 years ago. Tom
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Re: Lime Unloading IC/LTRR Gondola
Dennis Storzek
On Wed, Sep 11, 2019 at 08:42 AM, pennsylvania1954 wrote:
The other "truck" is interesting also. Obviously repurposed from a former career, creature comforts have been completely discarded. Note the seat box. I wonder if they have somehow rigged a power take off driving a winch or if the truck is repositioned in order to raise and lower their shovel.I noticed that too. I don't think it's a truck anymore, but rather a portable power unit. Note it has a drawbar style hitch attached to the front. Given the way it's positioned, at right angles to the lift line, I think the rear drive axles have been pulled, and they are just letting the line roll up around the drive shaft, although there may be a winding drum that we can't see on the far side of the operator, driven off the drive shaft. The operator just shifts between first and reverse to raise and lower the scoop. Dennis Storzek
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Re: C&O Lake Michigan Ferries, was Crappy Job
James L. Jeffery
Am not sure if this was mentioned before but there is a GTW carferry "The City of Milwaukee" in Manistee, MI. Of which I have a near HO scale scratchbuilt model. Jim Jeffery
On September 11, 2019 at 8:53 AM Denny Anspach <danspachmd@...> wrote:
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Re: C&O Lake Michigan Ferries, was Crappy Job
Denny Anspach <danspachmd@...>
Albeit that it never really ever operated in service on the Great Lakes, there is I believe still one more intact existing railroad car ferry still afloat on Lake Michigan: the ex-CN Abegweit. This stern-loading salt water ferry operated for many years between Cape Tormentine, NB and Prince Edward Island across the Canso Straits, providing the latter’s isolated CN trackage its only mainland connection. The abandonment of PEI trackage and the construction of a bridge put the Abeguit and other ferries out of business. The Abegweit went to Chicago to become the floating clubhouse of the Columbia Yacht Club.
My connection to this ship (this is a “salty”) was a time in 1960 when I boarded at Cape Tormentine with my 1957 Plymouth-cum-trailed boat nosed right up to the coupler (filling my windshield vision) of the daily overnight Montreal-Summerside PEI sleeping car. If that car rolled, we were toast. Loaded coal hoppers were carefully balanced. This connection continued years later when I was an occasional guest on board this elegant club house at the Columbia Yacht Club, the last time some 15 or so years ago. Each time, I boarded I made a bee line to check to see whether or not the trackage on the car deck was still intact. It was, in toto AFIK (false flooring on top of the rails). (railroads and ships- an unholy alliance) Denny
Denny S. Anspach MD
Okoboji, IA
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Re: Lime Unloading IC/LTRR Gondola
pennsylvania1954
Matt--Interesting photo. American ingenuity at work. These guys have done this before. The truck being loaded has a spreader mechanism on the back. Lime will fall through a gate onto the mechanism and be flung out to the sides. It seems that the spreader is driven by its own small gas engine. Simple process--no need for an expensive power take off. When loaded, no doubt it will be driven to a field, and its contents immediately spread.
The other "truck" is interesting also. Obviously repurposed from a former career, creature comforts have been completely discarded. Note the seat box. I wonder if they have somehow rigged a power take off driving a winch or if the truck is repositioned in order to raise and lower their shovel. They will be busy for awhile. That is a lot of lime. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL
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Re: MDC 3-bay hopper mystery
Curt Fortenberry
Back when Athearn acquired the line, I had a conversation with Craig Walker over these hoppers, and I said the same thing, correct the orientation of the hoppers. We were talking specifically about the Alaska RR versions, which were acquired used from C&O. ARR was still using them till about 10 - 15 years ago or so; probably till the 50 year rule kicked in. Curt Fortenberry
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Re: Lime Unloading IC/LTRR Gondola
Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
Don,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Richard Hendrickson said the Ertl gondola was good for ACL as well, though it needs a straight center sill. Ertl did the car in ACL (I have one), but in freight car red instead of the correct black. I will repaint mine someday. This spring at a train show in Virginia I came upon a large clutch of Ertl cars of all three types. I picked up two gondolas to reletter for my Virginia Midland. The boxcars I passed, since I already have two (1950s repaints and upgrades for GN and SP&S) and they were pretty by the late 1950s. I also have a couple of the flats stashed. Ertl cars are still out there, but getting hard to find. Yours Aye, Garth Groff
On 9/10/2019 8:06 PM, Donald B.
Valentine via Groups.Io wrote:
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Re: MDC 3-bay hopper mystery
Todd Sullivan
Hi Scott -
Not sure what those numbers are for. Could be that Clarence Menteer had them put there to indicate mold numbers. Clarence owned MDC when the hopper models were created. Clarence used to direct his mold-maker(s) to "make a boxcar that looks like this", holding up prototype photos of boxcars built by ACF and P-S, so the resulting models had ACF ends and P-S sides, or some similar combination. He was a businessman, not a modeler. More about those MDC hoppers. Back 30 or so years ago when I was building a fleet of B&O and C&O hoppers for a 1960s B&O layout that never got built, I did a bunch of work to improve a group of MDC ribbed triples. About 70% of the way through he project, I realized that the handbrakes were on the wrong end of the C&O cars (whence came the B&O cars), based on the direction of the outlet bays. That problem I couldn't fix without a lot more work on the painted and decaled cars I had finished, so I quietly put them away with a sigh. You might want to check your prototype photos to see if that hold true for the car(s) you are finishing. Todd Sullivan.
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Re: C&O Lake Michigan Ferries, was Crappy Job
Craig Wilson
Let's see if I can do this off the top of my head: 1. Pere Marquette/Chesapeake & Ohio Badger - still in service at Ludington (autos and trucks only) Spartan - laid up at Ludington / spare parts periodically salvaged for use on Badger City of Midland 41 - superstructure removed above car deck - in service as a barge 2. Grand Trunk Western Madison, Grand Rapids and City of Milwaukee: all identical "Manitowoc" boats Madison and Grand Rapids retired and scrapped City of Milwaukee purchased by State of Michigan and leased to Ann Arbor (its last active service). Later donated to preservation group and moved to Manistee as museum boat (Great Lakes vessels are "boats" not "ships") 3. Ann Arbor City of Green Bay (built as Wabash) retired in 1960's and towed to Spain for scrapping Arthur K Atkinson (built as AA No 6) towed at first to Ludington then to Kewaunee. Finally sold to private individual and towed to Detour Village (in eastern upper peninsula). Finally scrapped Viking (built as AA No 7) last operable AA boat. Used briefly in service across Lake Erie. Towed to shipyard in Menominee Mich. After several failed attempts to sell the vessel and put back into service, was finally cut down into a barge. At this time only three vessels still exist in their car ferry form: the Badger, Spartan and City of Milwaukee Craig Wilson
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Re: Express reefers?
Drew Bunn
Ben Hom wrote: Remember that express reefers were used for time-critical shipments, so items such as medicine, the first harvest of higher value produce such as berries, flowers, etc..
Don't forget fresh fish as well.
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Re: Lime Unloading IC/LTRR Gondola
Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
Most easily by going to a limestone quarry and choosing the proper size from those that are offered. I did that with an empty 2 lb. peanut butter jar and got a second one of smaller size for ballast. The coarser one is to load the low side MEC gons, the prototype for the Ertl car that no one likes just because its Ertl, that were loaded at the Swanton Lime Co. on the St.J. & L.C. for delivery to the MEC in St. Johnsbury enroute to the Maine paper companies. Since I first mentioned this some two years ago I'e not seen more than one Ertl MEC gon on eBay. So some of us know a good thing when we see it even if most want to grouse about Ertl cars. All Ertl cars are so easy to improve details on and with scale thickness, operating doors their USRA cars are the best buy for HO scale USRA double sheathed cars we have ever had! My two bits worth, Don Valentine
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Re: Express reefers?
ed_mines
Yes, during the late steam era there were entire trains of express reefers on railroads in the anthracite region going to New York City, frequently ending with a coach or even several passenger cars.
The book Erie Power shows a train with many identical PFE express reefers hauling cherries. LV would run blocks of express reefers in mixed trains
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Paging Jim Singer
I am looking to
reach Jim Singer and don't believe he does much email. Could someone
share, privately, his phone number?
Use the Reply to
Sender link or contact me directly as shile AT mindspring DOT com (replacing,
well, you know...)
Thanks,
Steve
Hile
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Re: Express reefers?
Tony Thompson
Dennis Storzek wrote: So, since we are seeing bagged salt at the loading point, I take the reefers were pre-iced without salt, and the salt added at time of loading to drive the temperature lower to more quickly pull the heat out of the load? Yes, that is what was recommended. Some shippers wanted salt in pre-icing as well, to get even colder air in the car, but the car standing for perhaps two hours with doors wide open for loading kind of wasted that salt. (The shipper was charged for it, of course.) Tony Thompson
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Re: Express reefers?
Dennis Storzek
So, since we are seeing bagged salt at the loading point, I take the reefers were pre-iced without salt, and the salt added at time of loading to drive the temperature lower to more quickly pull the heat out of the load?
Dennis Storzek
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Re: Express reefers?
Tony Thompson
Alex Huff wrote: Hammond, LA, on the IC main line, was another loading station for strawberries. The reefers were pre-cooled, having been iced at the division point and shops at McComb, MS. If you want to use the tariff language, common to railroaders and shippers alike, the reefers would be pre-iced and the LOAD could be pre-cooled, not vice versa. Tony Thompson
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Re: Express reefers?
Attached is a listing of temperatures required for shipping various kinds of fruits and vegetables. Note that Strawberries, among many others, are to be kept at 32. A small application of salt would keep the temp in the car at the required level.
Doug Harding www.iowacentralrr.org
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dennis Storzek
Is that salt bags on the roofs? What fruit or veggie used brine?
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