Date   
Photo: PRR Flat Car 426837 With Electrical Equipment Load

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: PRR Flat Car 426837 With Electrical Equipment Load

An image taken in 1937 from the Detroit Public Library:

https://digitalcollections.detroitpubliclibrary.org/islandora/object/islandora%3A230879

Click on the image and hold to temporarily enlarge it.

Description: View of switching equipment shipment on railroad cars at the Springwells Station treatment plant during construction, Detroit water supply system. Printed on front: "City of Detroit. Department of Water Supply. Division of Engineering. Shipment of switching equipment for temporary switch house from Westinghouse Elect. & Mfg. Co. Springwells Station, spec. PS-110. 4-7-31." Stamped on back: "Manning Bros., commercial photographers. 504-505 Lincoln Building. Corner State and Park Sts., Detroit, Mich."

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Photo: CB&Q Boxcar 134010

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: CB&Q Boxcar 134010

An image taken in 1931 from the Detroit Public Library:

https://digitalcollections.detroitpubliclibrary.org/islandora/object/islandora%3A230469

Click on the image and hold to temporarily enlarge it.

Description: View of two men unloading alum, via a hose, from a railroad freight car during the construction of the Chemical Building in the Springwells Station treatment plant, Detroit water supply system. Printed on front: "City of Detroit. Department of Water Supply. Springwells Station. Chemical Building. Contract No. FC-20. Building construction: W.E. Wood Company. File no. 831. No. 30. Date: 8-6-31. Photo by Manning Brothers." Typed on back: "Unloading first car of alum; air hose suspended from cable."

Dictionary Definition of Alum: The most widely used alum is potassium alum. It was used since antiquity as a flocculant (promotes clumping of particles) to clarify turbid liquids, as a mordant (a substance that combines with a dye or stain and thereby fixes it in a material) in dyeing, and in tanning. Other alums include sodium alum and ammonium alum.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Re: Youngstown Sheet & Tube tank car

Dave Parker
 

To expand a little on what Steve Hile said about YS&T 110 (and TKX 700):

Standard Car (later Tank Car) Company commenced operations in April of 1916; it was the name change that dates to 1919.  Judging from their seminal publication "All About Tank Cars" (both 1919, 1921 editions), I don't believe that Standard ever built any MCB Class II cars, as the May, 1917, mandate for Class III cars was so imminent.  Since the two cars in question here are clearly Class IIs, I am skeptical that Standard built them, although the built-up tank bolsters certainly say "Standard".  There are four similar Class II cars with "high walkways" in Ted's SEFCRM vol. 2 but, absent some evidence beyond the bolster design that they were actually Standard-built, I remain dubious about these as well.  Perhaps there was some "engineering philosphy" associated with these earlier cars that somehow found it's way into Standard's design team.

As for Pennsylvania Tank Car, I have seen start dates of  1911 and 1914, both without any solid attribution.  There are some indications that they used built-up tank bolsters on some cars, but I have never seen a confirmed PTCCo car with anything like what we are discussing here.

As for Don's comment about the Rube Goldberg running board design, this raises some questions (that I can't fully answer) about the safety appliance standards for tank cars.  Based on AC&F's transition from the their Type 7 to the Type 11 (in ~1911), I have long assumed that the 1911 Safety Appliances Act banned the "high walkway design".  But a reread of the safety appliances section in the 1911 MCB annual proceedings doesn't really support this notion.  To date, the only place I have found good drawings is in the 1918 MCB Standards and Recommended Practices.  There, a tank car without end-sills (as is the case with YS&T 110) is shown with what I would call "intermediate height" running boards, as per the UTLX Class V and X designs.  Cars with end-sills are still shown with the high running boards as an allowable option, but I suspect this is something that was grandfathered back to MCB Class II cars (and perhaps some unknown cutoff date).  The MCB/ARA Specifications for Tank Cars strongly imply that anything built to the Class III standard had to have the low running boards and end platforms that we are so used to seeing (and the photographic evidence certainly agrees).

This is a long way of saying I don't know who built the two tank cars discussed in this thread, but I guess I have some strong opinions about who didn't.  Contrary evidence is of course welcome, as is any clarification about exactly how/when the 1911 SAA affected running-board design.

--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA

Re: covered hopper grays take 2

Drew M.
 

I use Vallejo colors. Attached are the two colors I mix to achieve a grey for covered hoppers. I usually do two drops of white to one of grey with a little tweaking.

Drew in Philly

Modeling the pre-Depression years.

Sent from TypeApp

On Sep 17, 2019, at 09:05, Eric Mumper <eric.mumper@...> wrote:
Group,

Thank you to everybody for the replies.  I was not aware of the RMJ article.  Thanks also to Ed Hawkins for the scans of the actual color chips and others for their insight into the problems of the shades of gray and the difficulty into scaling them to models.

There are plenty of model paint grays and I appreciate the responses of actual uses to help narrow down the field.  Please keep them coming.

Eric Mumper

Re: Various Steel Industry Loads

spsalso
 

The "container devices" mentioned in the previous post also seem to have remnants of guides for lowering covers on top of them.

Ed

Edward Sutorik

Re: Photo: CB&Q Boxcar 134010

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 


Hi Bob and List Members,
 
You may be able to see the entire image at full resolution (without having to click on the image, without holding temporarily, without having to walk and/or chew gum at the same time) by clicking on the link below...
 
 
Thanks Bob for sending this out, it is a very nice image.
 
Claus Schlund
 
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2019 1:08 PM
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: CB&Q Boxcar 134010

Photo: CB&Q Boxcar 134010

An image taken in 1931 from the Detroit Public Library:

https://digitalcollections.detroitpubliclibrary.org/islandora/object/islandora%3A230469

Click on the image and hold to temporarily enlarge it.

Description: View of two men unloading alum, via a hose, from a railroad freight car during the construction of the Chemical Building in the Springwells Station treatment plant, Detroit water supply system. Printed on front: "City of Detroit. Department of Water Supply. Springwells Station. Chemical Building. Contract No. FC-20. Building construction: W.E. Wood Company. File no. 831. No. 30. Date: 8-6-31. Photo by Manning Brothers." Typed on back: "Unloading first car of alum; air hose suspended from cable."

Dictionary Definition of Alum: The most widely used alum is potassium alum. It was used since antiquity as a flocculant (promotes clumping of particles) to clarify turbid liquids, as a mordant (a substance that combines with a dye or stain and thereby fixes it in a material) in dyeing, and in tanning. Other alums include sodium alum and ammonium alum.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

IM SP stock car wanted

Richard Townsend
 

I am looking for an Intermountain SP stock car. Please contact me off-list if you have one to sell me or know of a hobby shop that does.

richtownsend <at> netscape <dot> net

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR

Re: Photo: Wabash Mather Boxcar

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 


Hi Bob and List Members,
 
Looks like there is another shot of this scene from a different angle at the link below...
 
 
Claus Schlund
 
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2019 1:06 PM
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Wabash Mather Boxcar

Photo: Wabash Mather Boxcar

An image from the Detroit Public Library:

https://digitalcollections.detroitpubliclibrary.org/islandora/object/islandora%3A172723

Click on the image and hold to temporarily enlarge it.

Description: View of several workmen loading wooden crate into railroad car at Michigan Steel Boat Company. "From Michigan Steel Boat Co., Detroit, Mich." painted on crate. "Mather car" painted on railroad car. Handwritten on back: "Companies--Michigan Steel Boat Co., 1910."

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Re: IM SP stock car wanted

Brian Carlson
 

Intermountain did a Santa Fe stock car and Red Caboose did a SP car. Do you mean the RC car? 

Brian J. Carlson 

On Sep 22, 2019, at 4:41 PM, Richard Townsend via Groups.Io <richtownsend@...> wrote:

I am looking for an Intermountain SP stock car. Please contact me off-list if you have one to sell me or know of a hobby shop that does.

richtownsend <at> netscape <dot> net

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR

Re: IM SP stock car wanted

Richard Townsend
 

Yes, the Red Caboose SP car now under the IM umbrella.


Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Carlson via Groups.Io <prrk41361@...>
To: main <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Sent: Sun, Sep 22, 2019 1:51 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] IM SP stock car wanted

Intermountain did a Santa Fe stock car and Red Caboose did a SP car. Do you mean the RC car? 

Brian J. Carlson 

On Sep 22, 2019, at 4:41 PM, Richard Townsend via Groups.Io <richtownsend@...> wrote:

I am looking for an Intermountain SP stock car. Please contact me off-list if you have one to sell me or know of a hobby shop that does.

richtownsend <at> netscape <dot> net

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR

Steam line placement on express box cars

Ken Roth
 

I can wing it, but I'm wondering if anyone knows of drawings for how to run a wrapped steam line under express box cars, specifically an SP 5000-5049 series BX-50-24.  I'd settle for drawings for a similar AAR ACR box car from another road.  Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks,
Ken Roth

Montpelier Coal Treatle

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Good Friends,

Last month we were talking about coal trestles, and I mentioned a surviving one at the Montpelier estate near Orange, Virginia. This actually belong to the estate, rather than the Southern Railway. The estate also owned the small freight house on the same private spur, as well as the depot. Private ownership is probably the reason the three structures are still there (as is the track, though not connected to the Norfolk Southern mainline).

I don't have a photo of the other side. You can see that there is an open section at the end of the trestle, and a closed section downramp (to the right). Given how short the open area is, I suspect that the closed section may be closed on the opposite side. The brush was too thick there to see much, but I plan to return this winter and try for more photos.

I do have two other views of the trestle, but I thought this single one was enough.

I hope this doesn't get me in trouble with the Sheriff, but I think industries served by freight cars are within the mandate of our group.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

Re: Steam line placement on express box cars

Tony Thompson
 

Ken Roth wrote:

I can wing it, but I'm wondering if anyone knows of drawings for how to run a wrapped steam line under express box cars, specifically an SP 5000-5049 series BX-50-24.  I'd settle for drawings for a similar AAR ACR box car from another road.  Any help would be much appreciated.

Can't help with the steam line location, Ken, but the SP BX-50-24 cars were 5700-5749.

Tony Thompson



Re: Steam line placement on express box cars

Tim O'Connor
 


The BE-50-24 steam line is not visible from the side in any photos that I have seen
so I assume that it must be threaded through the cross bearers alongside the center sill.
It has to cross the center sill at some location but it doesn't appear to drop below the
center sill... somewhat of a mystery.

Tim O'Connor




On 9/22/2019 7:39 PM, Tony Thompson wrote:
Ken Roth wrote:

I can wing it, but I'm wondering if anyone knows of drawings for how to run a wrapped steam line under express box cars, specifically an SP 5000-5049 series BX-50-24.  I'd settle for drawings for a similar AAR ACR box car from another road.  Any help would be much appreciated.

Can't help with the steam line location, Ken, but the SP BX-50-24 cars were 5700-5749.

Tony Thompson


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: Photos: White Star Tank Cars

rwitt_2000
 

Another example of automobile loading. Note placard "UNLOAD FROM THIS SIDE"

https://digitalcollections.detroitpubliclibrary.org/islandora/object/islandora%3A154147/datastream/IMAGE/view

Bob Witt

Re: Steam line placement on express box cars

Richard Townsend
 

Nothing definitive regarding the SP cars, but in the August 2001 Mainline Modeler there's a Nick Muff article on KCS baggage and express box cars 400-403 with drawings beginning on page 41. As seems logical to me, the steam line runs essentially as a mirror image of the train line.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Roth <krowth3249@...>
To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Sun, Sep 22, 2019 3:45 pm
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Steam line placement on express box cars

I can wing it, but I'm wondering if anyone knows of drawings for how to run a wrapped steam line under express box cars, specifically an SP 5000-5049 series BX-50-24.  I'd settle for drawings for a similar AAR ACR box car from another road.  Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks,
Ken Roth

Harvesting Ice from a Lake

rwitt_2000
 

Four photos of workmen harvesting ice from a ,lake. 

https://digitalcollections.detroitpubliclibrary.org/islandora/object/islandora%3A147968/datastream/IMAGE/view

Caption: Four pictures of men cutting and transporting ice off of lake. Building looks unfinished. One shows ice being loaded on boxcar. Handwritten on mat back: "Ice house 'Lake Station' 1915. Claire County, Mich., P.M.R.R., Cranberry Lake."

There are lots of railroad freight car stuff on this site. Try different search terms.

Bob Witt

Re: Steam line placement on express box cars

Ken Roth
 

Yup, Tony. Was trying to go from memory and forgot the 7!!  It's tough being old ....  thanks for correcting me.  We SP nuts don't want do propagate misinformation.  BTW the reason I'm particularly interested in this car is that I have a picture of one spotted at the Medford, Oregon depot circa 1950.  The only picture I know of this class running on the Siskiyou line.
Ken Roth
 

Re: Photos: White Star Tank Cars

bigfourroad
 

Packard -- ask the man who owns one.  What a shame ti kise this company.

Chris

-- 
J Chris Rooney CFA
Vanness Company

Email: Vannessco@...
Web: www.VannessCompany.com

Youngstown Sheet & Tube tank car

David
 

As for Pennsylvania Tank Car, I have seen start dates of?? 1911 and 1914, both without any solid attribution.?? There are some indications that they used built-up tank bolsters on some cars, but I have never seen a confirmed PTCCo car with anything like what we are discussing here.

I compiled some info from Pennsylvania Tank Line's ORER entries the last time this topic came up:

Pennsylvania Tank Line first appears in the February 1912 ORER with a picture of PTX 1001:
https://play.google.com/books/reader?printsec=frontcover&output=reader&id=QRs6AQAAMAAJ&pg=GBS.RA1-PA522

Their entry used a picture of PTX 1061 by December 1912:
https://play.google.com/books/reader?printsec=frontcover&output=reader&id=tboMAQAAIAAJ&pg=GBS.PA998

In May 1915, the picture changed to PTX 1091. Decent picture here:
https://play.google.com/books/reader?printsec=frontcover&output=reader&id=ZPg4AQAAMAAJ&pg=GBS.RA1-PA849

The change to the "new" underframe appeared on PTX 3500 in May 1917:
https://play.google.com/books/reader?printsec=frontcover&output=reader&id=O_c4AQAAMAAJ&pg=GBS.RA1-PA915

The more familiar cast tank saddles seem to have started circa 1918.

David Thompson