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Harvesting Ice from a Lake

rwitt_2000
 

Four photos of workmen harvesting ice from a ,lake. 

https://digitalcollections.detroitpubliclibrary.org/islandora/object/islandora%3A147968/datastream/IMAGE/view

Caption: Four pictures of men cutting and transporting ice off of lake. Building looks unfinished. One shows ice being loaded on boxcar. Handwritten on mat back: "Ice house 'Lake Station' 1915. Claire County, Mich., P.M.R.R., Cranberry Lake."

There are lots of railroad freight car stuff on this site. Try different search terms.

Bob Witt

Re: Steam line placement on express box cars

Ken Roth
 

Yup, Tony. Was trying to go from memory and forgot the 7!!  It's tough being old ....  thanks for correcting me.  We SP nuts don't want do propagate misinformation.  BTW the reason I'm particularly interested in this car is that I have a picture of one spotted at the Medford, Oregon depot circa 1950.  The only picture I know of this class running on the Siskiyou line.
Ken Roth
 

Re: Photos: White Star Tank Cars

bigfourroad
 

Packard -- ask the man who owns one.  What a shame ti kise this company.

Chris

-- 
J Chris Rooney CFA
Vanness Company

Email: Vannessco@...
Web: www.VannessCompany.com

Youngstown Sheet & Tube tank car

David
 

As for Pennsylvania Tank Car, I have seen start dates of?? 1911 and 1914, both without any solid attribution.?? There are some indications that they used built-up tank bolsters on some cars, but I have never seen a confirmed PTCCo car with anything like what we are discussing here.

I compiled some info from Pennsylvania Tank Line's ORER entries the last time this topic came up:

Pennsylvania Tank Line first appears in the February 1912 ORER with a picture of PTX 1001:
https://play.google.com/books/reader?printsec=frontcover&output=reader&id=QRs6AQAAMAAJ&pg=GBS.RA1-PA522

Their entry used a picture of PTX 1061 by December 1912:
https://play.google.com/books/reader?printsec=frontcover&output=reader&id=tboMAQAAIAAJ&pg=GBS.PA998

In May 1915, the picture changed to PTX 1091. Decent picture here:
https://play.google.com/books/reader?printsec=frontcover&output=reader&id=ZPg4AQAAMAAJ&pg=GBS.RA1-PA849

The change to the "new" underframe appeared on PTX 3500 in May 1917:
https://play.google.com/books/reader?printsec=frontcover&output=reader&id=O_c4AQAAMAAJ&pg=GBS.RA1-PA915

The more familiar cast tank saddles seem to have started circa 1918.

David Thompson

Re: Harvesting Ice from a Lake

Tim O'Connor
 

My hometown of Sterling MA had an ice house on the B&M line, and the ice was harvested from the
local water reservoir ponds. I think this was quite common in the 19th century.

On 9/22/2019 9:04 PM, rwitt_2000 via Groups.Io wrote:
Four photos of workmen harvesting ice from a ,lake.

https://digitalcollections.detroitpubliclibrary.org/islandora/object/islandora%3A147968/datastream/IMAGE/view

Caption: Four pictures of men cutting and transporting ice off of lake. Building looks unfinished. One shows ice being loaded on boxcar. Handwritten on mat back: "Ice house 'Lake Station' 1915. Claire County, Mich., P.M.R.R., Cranberry Lake."

There are lots of railroad freight car stuff on this site. Try different search terms.

Bob Witt
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*

Photos: White Star Tank Cars

David
 

Well, those are some oddballs. Double straps at one end, single on the other. The opposed safety valves on the dome are common for STC and PTC, but the underframe isn't either of them. I wonder if these are Allegheny Steel Tank Car?

David Thompson

Re: Photo: Wabash Mather Boxcar

Donald B. Valentine
 

Hi folks, 

    Can't recall, when did Mather really get it's start? This is the first Mather car I've seen that has not utilized
commonly available steel channels, angles and such. It appears that they were building wood framed cars in 
much the same way but from how early a date?

Cordially, Don Valentine

Re: Harvesting Ice from a Lake

Donald B. Valentine
 

If someone is seriously interested in ice harvesting it is still done on one day in February each winter on the pond
at the center of Brookfield, Vermont, the same pond with the floating bridge, using the same equipment that was
used in years past. Many small country towns in Northern New England had an ice house on such ponds, especially
if there were a creamery in town that shipped milk by rail. The foundations of an ice house can even be found on 
Towner's Pond in Melrose, Mass. barely outside of Boston. We had one in Morrisville, VT between the Randolph Rd.
and Ward's Pond that lasted into the 1970's though it had not been used for years. Even the pond is now gone as
it's first purpose was to power Leon Ward's sawmill. After he passed away the dam was breached and a family of
Great Blue Herons that had lived there since I was in grade school lost their habitat. 

The Rutland RR. had a large ice house in ALburgh, VT on the shore of Lake Champlain not far from the site of
the station in Alburgh where ice was cut and stored for years as well as shipped to other railroad owned ice houses
on the line. The conveyor system for moving the ice from the lake to the ice house was quite elaborate, judging from
the blueprints of it that I have.

Cordially, Don Valentine

Re: Photos: White Star Tank Cars

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Bob and friends,

Also note the small lettering on the left door, "Unlock this door from inside". I assume that means that the right-hand door could be opened from the outside first.



On 9/22/2019 8:55 PM, rwitt_2000 via Groups.Io wrote:
Another example of automobile loading. Note placard "UNLOAD FROM THIS SIDE"

https://digitalcollections.detroitpubliclibrary.org/islandora/object/islandora%3A154147/datastream/IMAGE/view

Bob Witt

Re: Photo: CB&Q Boxcar 134010

RICH CHAPIN
 

Alum treated the surface water to removed solids, makes the water clear.

Rich Chapin

Re: Photo: Wabash Mather Boxcar

Benjamin Hom
 

Don Valentine asked:
"Can't recall, when did Mather really get its start? This is the first Mather car I've seen that has not utilized commonly available steel channels, angles and such. It appears that they were building wood framed cars in much the same way but from how early a date?"

The first cars designed by Alonzo Mather were built in the 1880s.


Ben Hom



Re: Photo: Wabash Mather Boxcar

Ray Breyer
 

Mather applied for his first patent in 1880, and was leasing cars by 1883. By 1900 he had over 1,500 cars in operation. The company's first cars with steel side framing don't appear until around 1915.

For circa 1900 Mather stock cars and the company's typical construction, see the following images:
Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL


On Monday, September 23, 2019, 03:57:13 AM CDT, Donald B. Valentine via Groups.Io <riverman_vt@...> wrote:


Hi folks, 

    Can't recall, when did Mather really get it's start? This is the first Mather car I've seen that has not utilized
commonly available steel channels, angles and such. It appears that they were building wood framed cars in 
much the same way but from how early a date?

Cordially, Don Valentine

Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Various Steel Industry Loads

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Bob;

Thanks for that fabulous photo!

Though out of our era, it has many details we can learn from: ladles were shipped this way from Pollock, on high and wide trains. Note the overhang of the ladles in back loaded upside down. The even larger ones in front look they are for a BOP/BOF shop, while those in back look like teeming ladles without the control assembly installed.

The banded steel sheet on dunnage is standard practice. A very nice shot of this type of load (have modeled many of these).

Uncovered coiled steel sheet was common(er) on Erie, NYC and P&LE due to their customers' needs. They have been banded nicely.

Those anti-skid bumpers were a feature of at least one Lot of P&LE flat cars.

This looks like the way I remember Youngstown, when their mills were still in full swing. Note expansion loops on hot gas pipeline to right. Could this be Youngstown Sheet & Tube's interchange yard?

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io
Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2019 2:13 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Various Steel Industry Loads

Various Steel Industry Loads

An undated photo from the Ohio Memory website:

Blockedhttps://ohiomemory.org/digital/collection/p15005coll10/id/2993/rec/13 <Blockedhttps://ohiomemory.org/digital/collection/p15005coll10/id/2993/rec/13>

Description: "Ladles loaded on train cars for shipment made by the William B. Pollock Company."

Also visible are loads of steel coils, beams and plates.

And my thanks to Claus Schlund for finding the Ohio Memory website.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Re: Photo: Wabash Mather Boxcar

Steve and Barb Hile
 

Here are a couple of all wood Mather stock cars that were leased by the Rock Island.  The photo is circa 1917.
 
 
Steve Hile



From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ray Breyer via Groups.Io
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2019 6:09 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io; main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Wabash Mather Boxcar

Mather applied for his first patent in 1880, and was leasing cars by 1883. By 1900 he had over 1,500 cars in operation. The company's first cars with steel side framing don't appear until around 1915.

For circa 1900 Mather stock cars and the company's typical construction, see the following images:
Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL


On Monday, September 23, 2019, 03:57:13 AM CDT, Donald B. Valentine via Groups.Io <riverman_vt@...> wrote:


Hi folks, 

    Can't recall, when did Mather really get it's start? This is the first Mather car I've seen that has not utilized
commonly available steel channels, angles and such. It appears that they were building wood framed cars in 
much the same way but from how early a date?

Cordially, Don Valentine

Re: Harvesting Ice from a Lake

Thomas Evans
 

Ice harvesting & ice houses were also common on western lines before mechanical ice-making became common, especially with all the fruits & vegetables being shipped east from California.

The Santa Fe had a branch from Las Vegas NM up to Montezuma Hot Springs.  Although it started to serve a resort, its main commodity was ice harvested from a series of ponds each winter for several decades & shipped all over the western lines of the Santa Fe.  Natural ice was probably hard to come by along the Santa Fe's desert lines, so this high-altitude shady location may have been one of the few places to get it.  A few of us have been investigating this operation over on the Santa Fe site recently.

Tom

Re: Harvesting Ice from a Lake

Ralph W. Brown
 

Hi Don,
 
Seems to me I’ve a photograph of ice harvesting on one of Maine’s rivers, the Kennebec I think, but I don’t recall where.  I think the photo was taken in the early part of the 20th Century.  I probably have it saved on my computer, but I’ve yet to find it.
 
Pax,
 
 
Ralph Brown
Portland, Maine
PRRT&HS No. 3966
NMRA No. L2532

rbrown51[at]maine[dot]rr[dot]com
 

From: Donald B. Valentine via Groups.Io
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2019 5:13 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Harvesting Ice from a Lake
 
If someone is seriously interested in ice harvesting it is still done on one day in February each winter on the pond
at the center of Brookfield, Vermont, the same pond with the floating bridge, using the same equipment that was
used in years past. Many small country towns in Northern New England had an ice house on such ponds, especially
if there were a creamery in town that shipped milk by rail. The foundations of an ice house can even be found on
Towner's Pond in Melrose, Mass. barely outside of Boston. We had one in Morrisville, VT between the Randolph Rd.
and Ward's Pond that lasted into the 1970's though it had not been used for years. Even the pond is now gone as
it's first purpose was to power Leon Ward's sawmill. After he passed away the dam was breached and a family of
Great Blue Herons that had lived there since I was in grade school lost their habitat.
 
The Rutland RR. had a large ice house in ALburgh, VT on the shore of Lake Champlain not far from the site of
the station in Alburgh where ice was cut and stored for years as well as shipped to other railroad owned ice houses
on the line. The conveyor system for moving the ice from the lake to the ice house was quite elaborate, judging from
the blueprints of it that I have.
 
Cordially, Don Valentine

Cool DD SAL 40' AAR box car

Andy Carlson
 

Good Morning everyone-

Seaboard Air Lines 40' AAR box car, SAL 23307.

I forgot where I stole this picture from (It is a screen shot) but it is cool. Built in 1948, it would probably have a rectangular panel roof. With the 4/4 Dartnaught ends and what appears to me to be 13' door opening (one each 7' and 6' 5/6/6 IYSD) this is a unique 10'6" box car.  Kato A3 ride control trucks and a side sill addition to a Branchline 6' single door AAR kit with a Red Caboose Murphy roof. Could be a cool weekend model project.

-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

Inline image

Re: Cool DD SAL 40' AAR box car

Tim O'Connor
 

Andy

There were 500 cars built in 1948. The ends look like ACF proprietary ends.
If so, I wonder if the roofs also used the ACF proprietary design.




On 9/23/2019 2:03 PM, Andy Carlson wrote:
Good Morning everyone-

Seaboard Air Lines 40' AAR box car, SAL 23307.

I forgot where I stole this picture from (It is a screen shot) but it is cool. Built in 1948, it would probably have a rectangular panel roof. With the 4/4 Dartnaught ends and what appears to me to be 13' door opening (one each 7' and 6' 5/6/6 IYSD) this is a unique 10'6" box car.  Kato A3 ride control trucks and a side sill addition to a Branchline 6' single door AAR kit with a Red Caboose Murphy roof. Could be a cool weekend model project.

-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA



Attachments:



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: Photo: PRR Flat Car 426837 With Electrical Equipment Load

Todd Horton
 

There's a C of G vent car with the old style lettering coupled to the 2nd flat car. 

Todd Horton


On Sunday, September 22, 2019, 01:07:41 PM EDT, Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io <chiefbobbb@...> wrote:


Photo: PRR Flat Car 426837 With Electrical Equipment Load

An image taken in 1937 from the Detroit Public Library:

https://digitalcollections.detroitpubliclibrary.org/islandora/object/islandora%3A230879

Click on the image and hold to temporarily enlarge it.

Description: View of switching equipment shipment on railroad cars at the Springwells Station treatment plant during construction, Detroit water supply system. Printed on front: "City of Detroit. Department of Water Supply. Division of Engineering. Shipment of switching equipment for temporary switch house from Westinghouse Elect. & Mfg. Co. Springwells Station, spec. PS-110. 4-7-31." Stamped on back: "Manning Bros., commercial photographers. 504-505 Lincoln Building. Corner State and Park Sts., Detroit, Mich."

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Re: Youngstown Sheet & Tube tank car

Todd Sullivan
 

Jack Mullen wrote

"And when the driver think he safely on the other side
  He shouts back down the line to the man and he says
 I fooled you, I fooled you
 I got pig iron, I got pig iron
 I got all pig iron

You just can't mention stock cars and pig iron without invoking Lonnie Donegan."

Or Huddie Ledbetter ('Leadbelly') who originated those lyrics in the the song, "Rock Island Line".

Todd Sullivan