Date   
Re: Steam line placement on express box cars

Ken Roth
 

Tim and others.  I am building my Bx 50-24 from a Sunshine kit and ran into a couple of irregularities in the dimensions which I decided I couldn't live with.  I don't have time right at the moment to explain in detail, but I will within the next few days.  I will move that discussion to the resin group since its more on topic for discussion there.  Anyway, don't go off gluing anything just yet.... at least make sure you study Tony Thompson's SP freight cars, vol 4 and get out your ruler.

Ken Roth

Re: B-50-24 steam lines

Paul Woods
 

Thanks for posting these drawings just the same, Norm; they are still educational.

Regards
Paul

Re: Alcoa Covered Hoppers

Steve and Barb Hile
 

To add.  The reporting marks change to AQCX at some point.  Both marks are connected to Aluminum Ore Company, a subsidiary of ALCOA.
 
Steve Hile



From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve and Barb Hile
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2019 7:17 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Alcoa Covered Hoppers

In the late 1930's Pullman Standard built 85 interesting large covered hopper cars for Aluminum Corporation of America, AOCX 1200-1284, for alumina loading.  These large cars had 10 bottom hoppers (5 on each side of the center sill) and 6 rectangular hatches on the roof. 
 
Has anyone seen a photo of one of these cars?  Source?  On-line?
 
They appear to be big, like a carbon black car.
 
Thanks in advance for any assistance.
 
Steve Hile

Alcoa Covered Hoppers

Steve and Barb Hile
 

In the late 1930's Pullman Standard built 85 interesting large covered hopper cars for Aluminum Corporation of America, AOCX 1200-1284, for alumina loading.  These large cars had 10 bottom hoppers (5 on each side of the center sill) and 6 rectangular hatches on the roof. 
 
Has anyone seen a photo of one of these cars?  Source?  On-line?
 
They appear to be big, like a carbon black car.
 
Thanks in advance for any assistance.
 
Steve Hile

Re: B-50-24 steam lines

Norm Buckhart
 

nuts - you’re right - well anyway I tried.  Norm

On Sep 25, 2019, at 3:21 PM, Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...> wrote:

On Wed, Sep 25, 2019 at 02:58 PM, Norm Buckhart wrote:
for those of you that are interested in the SP 5700 Series express boxcar steam and signal lines, here are the shop drawings for them. Norm Buckhart, Protocraft
I'm sorry Norm, but the first drawing you present is simply the brake arrangement. The second drawing shows the steam connector and shut off, but not the routing of the pipe.

Dennis Storzek

Re: B-50-24 steam lines

Dennis Storzek
 

On Wed, Sep 25, 2019 at 02:58 PM, Norm Buckhart wrote:
for those of you that are interested in the SP 5700 Series express boxcar steam and signal lines, here are the shop drawings for them. Norm Buckhart, Protocraft
I'm sorry Norm, but the first drawing you present is simply the brake arrangement. The second drawing shows the steam connector and shut off, but not the routing of the pipe.

Dennis Storzek

Re: Steam line placement on express box cars

passcars
 

By "plan" number I assume you are referring to what SP termed as a General Arrangement drawings (car assembly drawing having side and end elevations, and roof plan view) which are assigned drawing numbers.  All drawings pertaining to an individual car class are listed at the end of the car construction specification document.

Steve Peery.

B-50-24 steam lines

Norm Buckhart
 

for those of you that are interested in the SP 5700 Series express boxcar steam and signal lines, here are the shop drawings for them. Norm Buckhart, Protocraft

Re: Cool DD SAL 40' AAR box car

Tim O'Connor
 


Definitely ACF carbuilder ends.




On 9/25/2019 5:27 PM, David via Groups.Io wrote:
I???m unaware of any other house cars using ends of this unique 4-4 MVC Carbuilder design...
Dunno if refrigerators count as house cars; but the ends on Armour 1-2000 seem to be of the same general design (in a R2/4 configuration), including the little squarish nubs at the corners between the ribs.

David Thompson

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Cool DD SAL 40' AAR box car

David
 

I???m unaware of any other house cars using ends of this unique 4-4 MVC Carbuilder design...
Dunno if refrigerators count as house cars; but the ends on Armour 1-2000 seem to be of the same general design (in a R2/4 configuration), including the little squarish nubs at the corners between the ribs.

David Thompson

Re: Cool DD SAL 40' AAR box car

Dennis Storzek
 

On Wed, Sep 25, 2019 at 10:06 AM, Ed Hawkins wrote:
There’s always reasoning behind making decisions that would seemingly require spending money for new dies to producing these ends. In this case it doesn’t make a lot of sense to me why one series of 500 cars would use ends of this MVC Carbuilder design when the normal 4-4 Improved Dreadnaught Ends were commonly used in 1948.
The normal reason for doing this sort of thing is patent avoidance. I haven't looked for patents on the improved Dreadnaught end, but recall from the last time we extensively discussed Dreadnaught ends that they made their appearance just before the Murphy corrugated end was about to become public domain, and the timing of the appearance of the "improved" version suggests a similar scenario. All the various carbuilder ends seem to lack the "darts" of the Dreadnaught design, so it would seem the darts were the patented feature. This would also seem to suggest that these ends were NOT jobbed out to S.R.E.Co. but stranger things have happened.

Why develop the die for just one order of 500 cars? I would suppose they intended to produce a lot more, with the intent of making their cars cheaper by at least the value of the S.R.E.Co. royalty, but it likely didn't work out that way. S.R.E.Co. may have dropped their prices, or the economies of scale just couldn't be beat. Pullman Standard seemed to do well enough with their end.

Dennis Storzek

Re: Steam line placement on express box cars

mrvant@rogers.com
 

Here is a scan of the underside diagram for a CN wood express reefer. It’s from Sylvan models and is looking from underneath the car up. The fat pipe on one side is steam and the two smaller ones are main air and signal. There would also be a retaining valve line running from the main valve to the end of the car.  CP wood express reefers had similar piping but the air tanks were placed differently. The pipes crossed the undersill through a slit part way up from floor.

Re: Cool DD SAL 40' AAR box car

Ed Hawkins
 



On Sep 25, 2019, at 1:08 PM, Bill Kelly <wbkelly@...> wrote:

What does the Seaboard diagram say about the roof on the 23000-23499 series?

Bill,
From the diagram….No. 14 ga. C.B. galv. steel sheets & No. 11 ga. galv. saddles; SREM Co.

Several good photos clearly illustrate the roofs were of the Murphy rectangular raised-panel type. 

Seaboard diagrams of later box cars having diagonal panel roofs are so-stated. 
Regards,
Ed Hawkins

Re: Cool DD SAL 40' AAR box car

Bill Kelly
 


Ed,
What does the Seaboard diagram say about the roof on the 23000-23499 series?
Thanks,
Bill Kelly
 
On Wed, 25 Sep 2019 12:06:22 -0500 "Ed Hawkins" <hawk0621@...> writes:


 

On Sep 25, 2019, at 10:51 AM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Yes, I see my notes show them with rectangular panel roofs

the question is, who made the ends? did MV produce ends like that?


Tim,
The Seaboard diagram for 23000-23499 denotes the ends as..…4” deep corrugations; 5/16” top & 1/4” bottom sections; Mt. Vernon Drwg. No. 508-D-18895.

Thus, it’s apparent these ends were designed by the builder Mount Vernon Car Manufacturing Co. It’s doubtful that MVC produced dies for manufacturing them. More likely the ends were a specialty manufactured & supplied by Standard Railway Equipment Manufacturing Co. along with the Murphy roofs. 

I’m unaware of any other house cars using ends of this unique 4-4 MVC Carbuilder design, which lack the intermediate minor corrugations that were pressed into the common 4-4 Improved Dreadnaught Ends used on thousands of box & auto cars built from 1945 to 1948 and extending into the 1950s for some railroads. 

There’s always reasoning behind making decisions that would seemingly require spending money for new dies to producing these ends. In this case it doesn’t make a lot of sense to me why one series of 500 cars would use ends of this MVC Carbuilder design when the normal 4-4 Improved Dreadnaught Ends were commonly used in 1948. This was a transitional time when SREM began producing what we typically refer to as the “r+3-4” version Improved Dreadnaught End with the top corrugation being a 3” deep pressed rectangular shape & the lower 7 corrugations & intermediate minor corrugations same as before.

Regards,
Ed Hawkins
_._,_._,_
 


Re: Steam line placement on express box cars

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

How can one determine the plan number for various SP boxcars?



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: "passcars via Groups.Io" <PASSCARS@...>
Date: 9/24/19 7:46 PM (GMT-10:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Steam line placement on express box cars

The SP drawing for steam line application and conditions for B-50-24 BX box express cars is SF-33427.  I may have a copy. Alternative is the Green Library at Stanford University, California.
Steve Peery

Re: Steam line placement on express box cars

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

Yes Steve:

Please share this drawing if possible.  I have been on an underframe tear lately and this is one I need.

Thanks:

Bill Pardie



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
Date: 9/25/19 6:18 AM (GMT-10:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Steam line placement on express box cars

Steve

If you can scan and share it, please do! I have a couple of Sunshine kits to build.

Tim O'Connor


On 9/25/2019 1:46 AM, passcars via Groups.Io wrote:

The SP drawing for steam line application and conditions for B-50-24 BX box express cars is SF-33427.  I may have a copy. Alternative is the Green Library at Stanford University, California.
Steve Peery

Re: Some may enjoy this image of boxcar PRR 100247

BRIAN PAUL EHNI
 

Worked for me. 

Thanks!
Brian Ehni 
(Sent from my iPhone)

On Sep 25, 2019, at 11:17 AM, Charlie Vlk <cvlk@...> wrote:



Claus-

The link doesn’t seem to work.

Thanks,
Charlie

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2019 10:25 AM
To: STMFC <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Some may enjoy this image of boxcar PRR 100247

 

Hi,

 

Some may enjoy this image of boxcar PRR 100247, PRR class XL.

 

 

I don't think I have ever seen this particular arrangement of lettering before on PRR equipment.

 

Enjoy!

 

Claus Schlund

 

Re: Cool DD SAL 40' AAR box car

O Fenton Wells
 

Gentlemen, Chad Boas makes the ends, doors and side sill supports for this car.  Just use an IM 10'-6" IH car and his parts do the rest.
Fenton Wells 

On Wed, Sep 25, 2019 at 11:51 AM Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:
David

Yes, I see my notes show them with rectangular panel roofs

the question is, who made the ends? did MV produce ends like that?



On 9/24/2019 5:20 PM, David via Groups.Io wrote:
>> There were 500 cars built in 1948. The ends look like ACF proprietary
>> ends.
>> If so, I wonder if the roofs also used the ACF proprietary design.
>
> SAL 23000-23499 were built at Mount Vernon in 6/48, so probably not.
>
> David Thompson


--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*





--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...

Re: Cool DD SAL 40' AAR box car

Ed Hawkins
 



On Sep 25, 2019, at 10:51 AM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Yes, I see my notes show them with rectangular panel roofs

the question is, who made the ends? did MV produce ends like that?


Tim,
The Seaboard diagram for 23000-23499 denotes the ends as..…4” deep corrugations; 5/16” top & 1/4” bottom sections; Mt. Vernon Drwg. No. 508-D-18895.

Thus, it’s apparent these ends were designed by the builder Mount Vernon Car Manufacturing Co. It’s doubtful that MVC produced dies for manufacturing them. More likely the ends were a specialty manufactured & supplied by Standard Railway Equipment Manufacturing Co. along with the Murphy roofs. 

I’m unaware of any other house cars using ends of this unique 4-4 MVC Carbuilder design, which lack the intermediate minor corrugations that were pressed into the common 4-4 Improved Dreadnaught Ends used on thousands of box & auto cars built from 1945 to 1948 and extending into the 1950s for some railroads. 

There’s always reasoning behind making decisions that would seemingly require spending money for new dies to producing these ends. In this case it doesn’t make a lot of sense to me why one series of 500 cars would use ends of this MVC Carbuilder design when the normal 4-4 Improved Dreadnaught Ends were commonly used in 1948. This was a transitional time when SREM began producing what we typically refer to as the “r+3-4” version Improved Dreadnaught End with the top corrugation being a 3” deep pressed rectangular shape & the lower 7 corrugations & intermediate minor corrugations same as before.

Regards,
Ed Hawkins

Re: Some may enjoy this image of boxcar PRR 100247

Charlie Vlk
 

Claus-

The link worked from Eric’s post.  Must have been all the STMFC people all viewing it at once…

Thanks,

Charlie Vlk

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Eric Hansmann
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2019 11:19 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Some may enjoy this image of boxcar PRR 100247

 

That is the as-built 1905 lettering presentation. 

 

Sweet!

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN


On Sep 25, 2019, at 10:24 AM, Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;) <claus@...> wrote:

Hi,

 

Some may enjoy this image of boxcar PRR 100247, PRR class XL.

 

 

I don't think I have ever seen this particular arrangement of lettering before on PRR equipment.

 

Enjoy!

 

Claus Schlund