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Re: Empty Car Card
seems obvious enough - there is no "WAYBILL" because the car is empty, but the car does have a destination. I suppose this would also prevent the car from being "hijacked" down the line somewhere, since it has a consignment to the destination.
On 9/28/2019 2:13 AM, Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io wrote:
--
Tim O'Connor Sterling, Massachusetts
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Re: NP Wood Reefer Paint
WILLIAM PARDIE
Thanks Gary. I have been trying to find the flyer that Bill put out covering the orange and yellow refer colors. Bill did a super job on all os his imported freight cars. This resulted on my car mix being heavily weighted to cars from the Pacific Northwest which was his specialty. I just could not say no to his offerings... I will continue to search for his flyer and will post if I find it. Bill Pardie Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
-------- Original message -------- From: gary laakso <vasa0vasa@...> Date: 9/28/19 3:05 AM (GMT-10:00) To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: [RealSTMFC] NP Wood Reefer Paint When W&R imported their Northern Pacific wood reefers, they came in wither orange or yellow. Bill McKeown obtained side hardware for two reefers, and carefully sanded through the layers and here are his findings that include estimated shop dates:
#92226
Built yellow 1922 yellow 1927 orange 1932 orange 1937 orange 1942 orange 1947 yellow 1952 yellow and retired the next year
#92520
Built yellow 1922 yellow 1929 orange 1936 orange 1948 yellow 1950 orange Retired 1952
His color comments were that the yellow was very close to Floquil reefer yellow and the orange was lighter than the skin of a navel or Valencia orange. “Photographic data shows that even the 50 foot steel ice reefers were retired in either yellow or orange. My personal theory is that the paint colors differed by the shop location each time the car was rebuilt.”
Gary Laakso Northwest of Mike Brock
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Re: 1944 AAR Boxcars
Bob Chapman
Ben Hom writes: For starters, there's Ed Hawkins' spreadsheets posted on the old Ted Cullotta Steam Era Freight Cars website: http://www.steamerafreightcars.com/prototype/frtcars/postwaraarmain.html Everything there, beyond my wildest dreams -- RPC-style by Ed Hawkins. Thanks, Ben (and Ed)! Bob Chapman
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NP Wood Reefer Paint
gary laakso
When W&R imported their Northern Pacific wood reefers, they came in wither orange or yellow. Bill McKeown obtained side hardware for two reefers, and carefully sanded through the layers and here are his findings that include estimated shop dates:
#92226
Built yellow 1922 yellow 1927 orange 1932 orange 1937 orange 1942 orange 1947 yellow 1952 yellow and retired the next year
#92520
Built yellow 1922 yellow 1929 orange 1936 orange 1948 yellow 1950 orange Retired 1952
His color comments were that the yellow was very close to Floquil reefer yellow and the orange was lighter than the skin of a navel or Valencia orange. “Photographic data shows that even the 50 foot steel ice reefers were retired in either yellow or orange. My personal theory is that the paint colors differed by the shop location each time the car was rebuilt.”
Gary Laakso Northwest of Mike Brock
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Re: NP R23 clone reefer
Fred Jansz
My last contribution to this thread:
- If the base color of the roof was black, why would overspray on the runboard be light gray (compared to the black of the ends)? - Or is it the anti-slip granulate we see as 'overspray' on the runboard? - the ends & hardware show as pure black in the picture. - the hatches show us 2 different hues of gray: around and under the lettering and on the rest of the hatch These 2 are significantly different, see picture and Photoshop measurement. (BTW: I can't believe the paint & lettering were added OVER the granulate, this part of the hatch was masked while adding the granulate). - Meaning the original roof paint is showing where the hatch-lettering can be seen. This also differs significantly from the black on the tackboard, see Photoshop measurements. My 2 (or 50) cents: Sides (of this NP R23 91072) chrome yellow, roof red (w granulate), ends & hardware black. cheers, Fred Jansz
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Re: SP freight train
Paul Doggett
Thank you again Fenton.
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Paul Doggett
On 28 Sep 2019, at 12:03, O Fenton Wells <srrfan1401@...> wrote:
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Re: SP freight train
Paul, busy man...excellent results Fenton
On Fri, Sep 27, 2019 at 2:39 PM Paul Doggett via Groups.Io <paul.doggett2472=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote: Several kits among these cars --
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Re: SP sugar beets
Paul Doggett
Thank you Fenton.
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Paul Doggett
On 28 Sep 2019, at 11:48, O Fenton Wells <srrfan1401@...> wrote:
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Re: Empty Car Card
John Barry
Bob, Many, if not most roads had forms like this. Such cards were used for movement and return of empties. Some roads didn't fill them out until the loaded car was at it's destination and the clerk or agent handling the inbound waybill filled it out from the information on it. Other roads filled out an empty car card for an inbound load at the receiving junction, which then moved with the car attached to the waybill. If the car was forwarded rather than unloaded on-line, the card was held at the outbound junction for use on the empty's return. In either case, the form provided a means to move empties back to their origin or move them to where they needed to go for repairs, light weight, or loading. Forms like this must have been the prototype inspiration for the "car card" portion of the "car card and waybill" car forwarding scheme that many of us use on our model railroads. The Santa Fe's version was Form 1850 Standard, Empty Car--Bill and Home Route Card. I've attached a copy of my adaptation for use on my railroad. John Barry ATSF North Bay Lines Golden Gates & Fast Freights Lovettsville, VA 707-490-9696 PO Box 44736 Washington, DC 20026-4736
On Saturday, September 28, 2019, 02:14:02 AM EDT, Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io <chiefbobbb@...> wrote:
Empty Car Card Below is an image of a PRR card "For Empty Cars Only". There are instructions on the bottom of the card, but can anyone provide more insight into the basis and use of this card? Thanks. Bob Chaparro Hemet, CA
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Re: SP sugar beets
Very nice Paul, I liked the way you set the scene up Fenton
On Fri, Sep 27, 2019 at 2:47 PM Paul Doggett via Groups.Io <paul.doggett2472=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote: SE4 on Sugar beet transfer job Detail Associates kits a couple are kit bashed with reverse dreadnought ends. --
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Re: SP freight train
Paul Doggett
Thanks Bill I must say like you I like little engines as well.
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Paul Doggett
On 27 Sep 2019, at 23:36, Bill Keene via Groups.Io <bill41=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:
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Re: Empty Car Card
Tony Thompson
On Sep 27, 2019, at 8:14 PM, Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io <chiefbobbb@...> wrote:
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Empty Car Card
Empty Car Card Below is an image of a PRR card "For Empty Cars Only". There are instructions on the bottom of the card, but can anyone provide more insight into the basis and use of this card? Thanks. Bob Chaparro Hemet, CA
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Re: Steam line placement on express box cars
passcars
Along with the Steam Line discussions, another interesting feature that these cars had were 4 marker lamp brackets located on each of the 4 corners just below the joint line of the top and bottom end sheet. BX cars were at times carried on the rear of express trains when the rider coach was positioned further forward.
Steve Peery
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armstrong refrigerator line
Richard McQuade
Anybody familiar with Armstrong Refrigerator Line?
Richard
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Re: NP R23 clone reefer
The paint applied to these reefer roofs (and hatches) probably had "non skid" sand added to the mix and so had a flat appearance. Then stencils were added to the hatches with a gloss color (could be black or brown who knows?) background.
On 9/27/2019 6:06 PM, npin53 wrote:
Lets stir the pot some more.....On the far left, there is a patch of differently shaded paint on the hatch covers? --
Tim O'Connor Sterling, Massachusetts
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NP R23 clone reefer-Chrome Yellow
Andy Carlson
Chrome Yellow was a single pigment color used in large amounts early in the 19th century. The 1st Pullman Green paint that the Pullman company made after WWl was a blend of Chrome Yellow and Duco Black, both colors were pure paints Pullman acquired for real cheap after the war from the war department. The war department made their olive drab with the same two yellow and black base colors, just with a different mix ratio. Later, well after WWll, Chrome Yellow was replaced by an industry blend of Cadmium Yellow and Cadmium Orange to eliminate the carcinogenic nature of real Chrome Yellow, which has chromium and lead. Unless someone is certainly lucky in finding some real old stock Chrome Yellow (The real stuff, not the replacement) we can only get close, but with all of the caveots of surface, age, light conditions and color film differences; close is what everything we do is. -Andy Carlson Ojai CA
On Friday, September 27, 2019, 11:19:44 AM PDT, npin53 <npin53@...> wrote:
The car color was called Chrome Yellow. I always try to match it to school bus yellow. Testers does have a chrome Yellow in its product line. The 1949 built NP reefers with the diagonal panel roofs, were bare galvanized with brown ends. As for the 1947 cars, mine will be black until someone proves it otherwise, beyond a shadow of a doubt. Black car cement reflected light different than paint. Aaron Gjermundson
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Re: NP R23 clone reefer
np328
Aaron is right about the Chrome Yellow on the car. Chrome Yellow was also the color used on NP semaphore blades.
Fred, I will agree that the tones you posted look different from the top vs the end. I believe (fingers crossed) that the roofs had granular grit (forgot the corporate name) and that well might throw off the light reflection to appear different. I know I posted something a ways back and Tony responded that the granules could be ordered in different colors. Does anyone see a shiny surface reflection off the roof the way the black paint is elsewhere? I do not. Fred take the photo enlargement you supplied, https://realstmfc.groups.io/g/main/attachment/167035/0/Schermafbeelding%202019-09-27%20om%2019.26.53.png OK, within the red circle, look on top of the two ladders were they curve inward to attach to the car. The one from the car side on the left reflects the light differently than the one on the right. My feeling is that what is being judged as red is the manner that light particles scatter off an uneven surface, like granules. However, black. I agree with Aaron on the roof, black, as that is what an NP 1944 color charts states: Metal roofs - black. I need to run over to the MNHS and relook up the builders specs and see how many gallons of paint and which colors were listed and if indeed, a granular coat put on the roof. Perhaps that will happen this year. I have a few (paying) research requests I have to get to first. Not that this is unimportant to me, and Aaron. Tony T, if I had solid, verifiable data to add, I would have responded. Some other externalities that factor in. 1. From 1940 to 1947 includes WWII, which could affect paint colors, or paint chemical ingredients. NP changed their designation of what was to be painted silver (aluminum paint) during the war the war to white, and changed it back after the war. This may have affected reefer paint also, however until factual evidence is found, that is just a guess. 2. Human nature. In files regarding "paint" I found a letter from an NP VP to local division HQ asking about some semaphore blades being Canary Yellow. After checking back came the reply that the blades were badly in need of repainting and the store-master was out of the regular paint and sent the first thing he could get that was close. Several months later, when the correct paint was re-obtained, all these blades were repainted. I would hate to think if someone had a photo of this isolated incident going "Look! Proof!" without the prior letters explaining how this came about. 3. See the attached sheet, it lists eleven different paint suppliers. Does anyone think that (a) these were an exact match or (b) these weathered uniformly? Much earlier than the date of the attachment, one 1920s sheet lists as many as 23 suppliers. I showed a photo looking back over an NP reefer consist crossing the Cascades in one of my RPM presentations: many, many, shades of reefer oranges and other colors. Combine that with Richard Hendrickson's statements about how dirty or sooty freight cars were when steam roamed freely. And so, I hesitate to get into these briar patch conversations without solid factual information. Jim Dick - Roseville, MN
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Re: SP freight train
Bill Keene
Paul,
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Enjoyed the clips. I have a soft spot for little engines. Good to see one in action. For some unknown reason I also have a soft spot for the AC-9s. There is just something about their shape and size. Cheers, Bill Keene Irvine, CA
On Sep 27, 2019, at 11:37 AM, Paul Doggett via Groups.Io <paul.doggett2472=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:
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Re: NP R23 clone reefer
Nelson Moyer
That’s overspray from painting the roof seams. There is overspray on the running board at the center of all of the roof seams as well, as seen in the earlier photos. Apparently, the seams were sprayed the same color as the ends, but the rest of the galvanized roof was left unpainted.
Nelson Moyer
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io]
On Behalf Of npin53
Sent: Friday, September 27, 2019 5:06 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] NP R23 clone reefer
Lets stir the pot some more.....On the far left, there is a patch of differently shaded paint on the hatch covers?
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