Date   
Re: Rio Grande double-sheathed automobile car

Donald B. Valentine
 

    My feelings echo Fenton's, Dick. Had a wood model of one of these once in O scale when I used
to operate on a friend's O scale pike every Friday night. Eventually gave it to him and later wished I
had kept it to copy in HO scale. Gary, I hope you're right because I'd love ot have one in HO scale.
Did any eastern roads have clones of these cars?

Cordially, Don Valentine

Re: Rio Grande double-sheathed automobile car

vapeurchapelon
 

A beautiful model!

Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953

Gesendet: Sonntag, 29. September 2019 um 01:21 Uhr
Von: "Richard Scott" <rlscott5709@...>
An: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Betreff: [RealSTMFC] Rio Grande double-sheathed automobile car

Here's a photo of my most recent freight car project, an O-scale D&RGW
double-sheathed automobile car. I built it from a Rails Unlimited
resin body, painted it with Polly Scale acrylics, and lettered it with
Protocraft decals. The 200 cars in the Rio Grande's 61200-61399
series were built by the Mount Vernon Car Company in 1925. Most
remained in service into the 1960s, with the final car, 61346, going
off the roster in 1969.


I have other photos of my steam-era freight cars in "Dick Scott's
models," currently on the first page of our photo section.


Dick Scott



Re: Rio Grande double-sheathed automobile car

Eric Hansmann
 

Thanks for sharing your work, Dick. The car looks great. Will you display this at RPM Chicagoland?

I, too, have heard this might be a HO scale resin kit offering. Let's cross our fingers!


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN


On September 28, 2019 at 5:21 PM Richard Scott <rlscott5709@...> wrote:


Here's a photo of my most recent freight car project, an O-scale D&RGW
double-sheathed automobile car. I built it from a Rails Unlimited
resin body, painted it with Polly Scale acrylics, and lettered it with
Protocraft decals. The 200 cars in the Rio Grande's 61200-61399
series were built by the Mount Vernon Car Company in 1925. Most
remained in service into the 1960s, with the final car, 61346, going
off the roster in 1969.


I have other photos of my steam-era freight cars in "Dick Scott's
models," currently on the first page of our photo section.


Dick Scott



Re: Rio Grande double-sheathed automobile car

Michael Gross
 

What a beauty!
--
Michael Gross
Pasadena, CA

Re: Rio Grande double-sheathed automobile car

Paul Doggett
 

Dick
That’s a stunning build, paint job and weathering.
Paul Doggett England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 

Re: Fish belly underframe

BillM
 

Thank you everyone for your responses and answers. Have a blessed day.

Bill Michael

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Bob Webber
Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2019 3:21 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io; main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Fish belly underframe

 

Along with that, alloys and various improvements allowed for less

labor intensive means of creating a supporting structure that was

"smaller", stronger,  & better use of resources and more flexible.

 

The straight channel sill was found to be sufficiently strong and

reduced rivets, time and steel.  When weldments came on line that

further reduced time and materials.  A jig ended up doing the work

(or allowing far fewer to work) on the whole structure at the same time.

 

The same thing happened for passenger cars, but it took a lot longer

(for a variety of reasons).  the sill does more than "just" impart

structure to the frame, it can also lower CoG and provide additional

stiffness in specific planes (that otw might fail in certain

circumstances).  A Standard Pullman was called a battleship for the

keel (sill) and the heavy riveted side frame and skin that mimic the

(essentially, pre-Dreadnought) Battleship construction.

 

People tend to forget that huge swaths of industry and society have

seen a sudden and virtually entire loss of functions.  The Milk

industry  (& usually associated ice industry) is one large example

(used to be 10 ice houses & 4 milk concentrators within 5 miles of

here) .  But at the same time, the consequences of specific

construction methods - of buildings, roads, autos, and freight cars -

all changed heavily in the 1910-1940 era.  A great many methods WERE

regulated out of existence, a great many were simply passed by events.

 

For instance....driving through beautiful downtown Elgin today, most

of the large brick buildings making up a semi-industrial corridor are

gone in the last 20 years - and in the resulting open space, you can

see that now passed over tech, the pay phone (complete with sign

pointing at it) now used mangily by dealers of all sorts.  But no one

regulated land lines (esp. pay variants) out of existence, some few

remain, but the rest have simply outlived their usefulness (and may

yet be regulated out of existence due to their use in crimes).

 

At 01:56 PM 9/28/2019, Dennis Storzek wrote:

>And still in use long after the cut-off date of this discussion

>group. TTX 89' flatcars have fishbelly underframes. The reason we

>don't see any on house cars built after 1930 or so is designers

>finally realized the design was overkill; it added weight whereas a

>straight sill was sufficiently strong.

>Dennis Storzek

 

Bob Webber

 

 

 

 

Re: Rio Grande double-sheathed automobile car

Daniel A. Mitchell
 

Another fine effort, Dick! I’m guessing you’ll be bringing it to the RPM meet next month. I’m looking forward to seeing it.

Dan Mitchell
==========

On Sep 28, 2019, at 7:21 PM, Richard Scott <rlscott5709@...> wrote:

Here's a photo of my most recent freight car project, an O-scale D&RGW
double-sheathed automobile car. I built it from a Rails Unlimited
resin body, painted it with Polly Scale acrylics, and lettered it with
Protocraft decals. The 200 cars in the Rio Grande's 61200-61399
series were built by the Mount Vernon Car Company in 1925. Most
remained in service into the 1960s, with the final car, 61346, going
off the roster in 1969.


I have other photos of my steam-era freight cars in "Dick Scott's
models," currently on the first page of our photo section.


Dick Scott



<D&RGW 61346_2.JPG>

Covered Hopper ID

David
 

I'm curious about the covered hopper in the scan attached (hopefully).  Image is on the Santa Fe in Medicine Lodge, KS 1952.

It is no doubt a Carbon Black hopper, any ideas on the owner and reporting marks.  I'm guessing Colombian Carbon Co.  From this angle the car looks like it could be modeled from the F&C kit, and I think this style of hopper was offered by Railshop and Overland.

Seems odd that this car would be on this particular branch line.  The only non-agricultural traffic on this line to my knowledge is gypsum mining and wallboard manufacturing.  There would be petroleum production in this area, but no refineries.  No interchanges with foreign roads on this branch.  Any speculation why this car would be out here?

Photo credit goes to William O Gibson, Medicine Lodge, Kansas 1952.  "Santa Fe Engine Picture Taker" p.21.

Regards,
David Snook
Wichita, KS


Toronto Train Show Oct 5-6: RPM Planned

G.J. Irwin
 

I don't think this has been brought up on this group before, if redundant my apologies.

There is a new addition to the Greater Toronto Train Show this year: a concurrent Railway Prototype Modelers Meet.  At this writing there are several clinics planned.  The most relevant to this list is "Canadian General Service Gondolas" but there are others.  Here's the link to the RPM and the list of clinics.

https://www.torontorpm.ca/

The overall link to the show, which takes place Saturday and Sunday, October 5 and 6, from 10 AM to 4 PM both days, is here:

https://www.torontotrainshow.com/

I'm not affiliated but have been to this show several times.  I enjoy seeing things I don't commonly see "South of the Border."  There are often excellent model displays in multiple scales.  The addition of an RPM should increase the value for the price of admission ($8 Canadian, with a $1 off coupon on the site and free re-admission on Sunday for Saturday attendees).

George Irwin

Rochester, NY

 

Re: NP R23 clone reefer

vapeurchapelon
 

With this portion magnified - as odd as it certainly is, I can't deny to think that there is just a small black stripe at the roof top end, maybe 4 - 6 inches broad. Please see attached image section where I placed some red dots and compare with the original.
If that is complete bogus I apologize.
 
Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953
 
Gesendet: Samstag, 28. September 2019 um 14:34 Uhr
Von: "Fred Jansz" <fred@...>
An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] NP R23 clone reefer
My last contribution to this thread:

- If the base color of the roof was black, why would overspray on the runboard be light gray (compared to the black of the ends)?
- Or is it the anti-slip granulate we see as 'overspray' on the runboard?
- the ends & hardware show as pure black in the picture.
- the hatches show us 2 different hues of gray: around and under the lettering and on the rest of the hatch
  These 2 are significantly different, see picture and Photoshop measurement. 
  (BTW: I can't believe the paint & lettering were added OVER the granulate, this part of the hatch was masked while adding the granulate).
- Meaning the original roof paint is showing where the hatch-lettering can be seen.
  This also differs significantly from the black on the tackboard, see Photoshop measurements.

My 2 (or 50) cents: Sides (of this NP R23 91072) chrome yellow, roof red (w granulate), ends & hardware black.
cheers, Fred Jansz

Re: Covered Hopper ID

Tim O'Connor
 


The car in your photo is a Columbian Carbon ACF hopper of the type offered by the three
different sources - representing the cars before they were all rebuilt to increase their
capacity. There are no models of the rebuilt cars.

Carbon black was produced in factories that burned natural gas and collected the carbon soot.
I've attached a photo from the 2007 Naperville meet of a model of a facility that was built in
west Texas.





On 9/29/2019 11:05 AM, David via Groups.Io wrote:
I'm curious about the covered hopper in the scan attached (hopefully).  Image is on the Santa Fe in Medicine Lodge, KS 1952.

It is no doubt a Carbon Black hopper, any ideas on the owner and reporting marks.  I'm guessing Colombian Carbon Co.  From this angle the car looks like it could be modeled from the F&C kit, and I think this style of hopper was offered by Railshop and Overland.

Seems odd that this car would be on this particular branch line.  The only non-agricultural traffic on this line to my knowledge is gypsum mining and wallboard manufacturing.  There would be petroleum production in this area, but no refineries.  No interchanges with foreign roads on this branch.  Any speculation why this car would be out here?

Photo credit goes to William O Gibson, Medicine Lodge, Kansas 1952.  "Santa Fe Engine Picture Taker" p.21.

Regards,
David Snook
Wichita, KS


Attachments:



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: Covered Hopper ID

Ed Hawkins
 



On Sep 29, 2019, at 10:05 AM, David via Groups.Io <davidleesnook@...> wrote:

It is no doubt a Carbon Black hopper, any ideas on the owner and reporting marks.  I'm guessing Colombian Carbon Co.  From this angle the car looks like it could be modeled from the F&C kit, and I think this style of hopper was offered by Railshop and Overland.

David,
Columbian Carbon’s reporting marks were CCX. For the referenced 1952 date of the photo, CCX car numbers ranged from 211-307, 95 cars in service as of 1/52. 

They were built in relatively small groups of 10 to 25 cars by ACF from 7-37 to 10-47. CCX 211-262, 52 cars, were originally built for Columbian Gasoline (SCNX 211-262) built 7-37 to 8-39 & transferred to CCX in the first half of 1940. ACF built 45 additional cars for CCX from 10-40 to 10-47. Two cars from original series 211-220 were apparently lost to attrition, one in 1943 & the other in 1949-1950. All of these cars had 3000 cu. ft. capacity. 

ACF builder photos with CCX reporting marks include 270, built 12-40, lot 2107, which was published on page 305, 1946 Car Builders’ Cyclopedia & page 248 of the 1949-1951 CBC. Other builder photos are 285, built 10-41, lot 2250 and 304, built 10-47, lot 3047. Scans of these photos are available from the Barriger National Railroad Library. 

Hope this helps.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins




Re: Rio Grande double-sheathed automobile car

BRIAN PAUL EHNI
 

Stunning job. Westerfield needs to do this car in HO.


Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni


On 9/28/19, 6:21 PM, "Richard Scott" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io on behalf of rlscott5709@...> wrote:

Here's a photo of my most recent freight car project, an O-scale D&RGW
double-sheathed automobile car. I built it from a Rails Unlimited
resin body, painted it with Polly Scale acrylics, and lettered it with
Protocraft decals. The 200 cars in the Rio Grande's 61200-61399
series were built by the Mount Vernon Car Company in 1925. Most
remained in service into the 1960s, with the final car, 61346, going
off the roster in 1969.


I have other photos of my steam-era freight cars in "Dick Scott's
models," currently on the first page of our photo section.


Dick Scott

Duluth, Missabe & Iron Range boxcar 3332

Lester Breuer
 

I have finished Duluth, Missabe & Iron Range single-sheathed Box Car 3332.  It is an Accurail  kit, number 4406.  I have included a photo of the car prior to final paint and weathering with molded ladders removed and drop grab iron ladders and other DMIR details added. If you are interested, photos and writeup of the build including paint match are now on my blog I have to share photos and writeup of modeling projects on my Minneapolis & Northland Railroad Company.   If you would like to take a look please do at the following link:

http://mnrailroadcab100.blogspot.com/
 

Lester Breuer

Re: Covered Hopper ID

mopacfirst
 

That part of Kansas overlays a very large gas field, the Hugoton.  Could there have been a carbon black plant on the branch?

I know there was one owned by Cabot right off the Santa Fe mainline (now the Transcon) near Pampa, Texas, which is geographically interchangeable with western Kansas.

Ron Merrick

Re: NP R23 clone reefer

leakinmywaders
 

Just to reiterate a point Jim Dick made, and Aaron hinted at, the NP was in general watched over by a hierarchy of engaged sticklers.  While not completely unheard of, it was unusual for equipment to stray significantly from the specs in the official painting and lettering diagrams (as revised and noted on specific dates). This was so until the late 1960s, when mergeritis started setting in—and then mainly things went chaotically nonstandard mostly for lettering flat, gon, and hopper repaints, Less so for house cars. 

Chris Frissell 
Polson, MT

Rusty rivets?

D. Scott Chatfield
 

Archer rivets and their clones have changed the way many of us approach kitbashing and scratchbuilding.  But while looking at some prototype photos for current projects I noticed that what I really need are rust colored rivets, and they need to be applied after painting the car.  I know most of you apply the rivets then paint the car, but I model post-1960 for the most part, when most riveted cars would have lost the paint over the rivets.  Paint doesn't stick to rivets well, and that isn't just a post-1960 problem.

Thoughts?

Scott Chatfield

Re: Rusty rivets?

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Scott,

How about a teeny-tiny 00000 spotting brush, some thinned rust-colored acrylic paint, an Optivisor (for those of us older than Elvis) and a lot of patience?

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 9/30/2019 12:26 AM, D. Scott Chatfield wrote:
Archer rivets and their clones have changed the way many of us approach kitbashing and scratchbuilding.  But while looking at some prototype photos for current projects I noticed that what I really need are rust colored rivets, and they need to be applied after painting the car.  I know most of you apply the rivets then paint the car, but I model post-1960 for the most part, when most riveted cars would have lost the paint over the rivets.  Paint doesn't stick to rivets well, and that isn't just a post-1960 problem.

Thoughts?

Scott Chatfield

Re: Duluth, Missabe & Iron Range boxcar 3332

Paul Doggett
 

Lester 

That’s looking really neat.

Paul Doggett.  England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 


On 29 Sep 2019, at 23:00, Lester Breuer <rforailroad@...> wrote:

I have finished Duluth, Missabe & Iron Range single-sheathed Box Car 3332.  It is an Accurail  kit, number 4406.  I have included a photo of the car prior to final paint and weathering with molded ladders removed and drop grab iron ladders and other DMIR details added. If you are interested, photos and writeup of the build including paint match are now on my blog I have to share photos and writeup of modeling projects on my Minneapolis & Northland Railroad Company.   If you would like to take a look please do at the following link:

http://mnrailroadcab100.blogspot.com/
 

Lester Breuer

Attachments:

NC&STL GOLDOLA

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Good friends,

Attached is a photo I took of a Seaboard low-side gondola at Dillwyn, Virginia on the then-CSX Dillwyn Subdivision (now Buckingham Branch RR) around 1986. It appears to be an ex-NC&STL car, which would put it within our era of interest. Likely it was rebuilt with the sides strengthened. Any comments on its origins and original series numbers?

The car is on a short siding that served Seay Milling Co., the local Southern States affiliate. This track was rarely used by Seay, and served (and still does) as a holding track to stash cars; the Dillwyn yard being pretty small. It was likely bound for loading at the Koppers woodlot about 1/2 mile further down the line. Koppers was, and still is, one of the branch's major shippers, but their track only holds 3-4 cars. Raw ties are still loaded there and sent to an off-line creosote plant.

Stashing freight cars on somebody else's siding until needed is likely a pretty common thing on most railroads, but something we rarely do on our layouts. Something worth considering for how you operate your freight cars.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff