Date   
Re: Rio Grande double-sheathed automobile car

Daniel A. Mitchell
 

Another fine effort, Dick! I’m guessing you’ll be bringing it to the RPM meet next month. I’m looking forward to seeing it.

Dan Mitchell
==========

On Sep 28, 2019, at 7:21 PM, Richard Scott <rlscott5709@...> wrote:

Here's a photo of my most recent freight car project, an O-scale D&RGW
double-sheathed automobile car. I built it from a Rails Unlimited
resin body, painted it with Polly Scale acrylics, and lettered it with
Protocraft decals. The 200 cars in the Rio Grande's 61200-61399
series were built by the Mount Vernon Car Company in 1925. Most
remained in service into the 1960s, with the final car, 61346, going
off the roster in 1969.


I have other photos of my steam-era freight cars in "Dick Scott's
models," currently on the first page of our photo section.


Dick Scott



<D&RGW 61346_2.JPG>

Re: Fish belly underframe

BillM
 

Thank you everyone for your responses and answers. Have a blessed day.

Bill Michael

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Bob Webber
Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2019 3:21 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io; main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Fish belly underframe

 

Along with that, alloys and various improvements allowed for less

labor intensive means of creating a supporting structure that was

"smaller", stronger,  & better use of resources and more flexible.

 

The straight channel sill was found to be sufficiently strong and

reduced rivets, time and steel.  When weldments came on line that

further reduced time and materials.  A jig ended up doing the work

(or allowing far fewer to work) on the whole structure at the same time.

 

The same thing happened for passenger cars, but it took a lot longer

(for a variety of reasons).  the sill does more than "just" impart

structure to the frame, it can also lower CoG and provide additional

stiffness in specific planes (that otw might fail in certain

circumstances).  A Standard Pullman was called a battleship for the

keel (sill) and the heavy riveted side frame and skin that mimic the

(essentially, pre-Dreadnought) Battleship construction.

 

People tend to forget that huge swaths of industry and society have

seen a sudden and virtually entire loss of functions.  The Milk

industry  (& usually associated ice industry) is one large example

(used to be 10 ice houses & 4 milk concentrators within 5 miles of

here) .  But at the same time, the consequences of specific

construction methods - of buildings, roads, autos, and freight cars -

all changed heavily in the 1910-1940 era.  A great many methods WERE

regulated out of existence, a great many were simply passed by events.

 

For instance....driving through beautiful downtown Elgin today, most

of the large brick buildings making up a semi-industrial corridor are

gone in the last 20 years - and in the resulting open space, you can

see that now passed over tech, the pay phone (complete with sign

pointing at it) now used mangily by dealers of all sorts.  But no one

regulated land lines (esp. pay variants) out of existence, some few

remain, but the rest have simply outlived their usefulness (and may

yet be regulated out of existence due to their use in crimes).

 

At 01:56 PM 9/28/2019, Dennis Storzek wrote:

>And still in use long after the cut-off date of this discussion

>group. TTX 89' flatcars have fishbelly underframes. The reason we

>don't see any on house cars built after 1930 or so is designers

>finally realized the design was overkill; it added weight whereas a

>straight sill was sufficiently strong.

>Dennis Storzek

 

Bob Webber

 

 

 

 

Re: Rio Grande double-sheathed automobile car

Paul Doggett
 

Dick
That’s a stunning build, paint job and weathering.
Paul Doggett England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 

Re: Rio Grande double-sheathed automobile car

Michael Gross
 

What a beauty!
--
Michael Gross
Pasadena, CA

Re: Rio Grande double-sheathed automobile car

Eric Hansmann
 

Thanks for sharing your work, Dick. The car looks great. Will you display this at RPM Chicagoland?

I, too, have heard this might be a HO scale resin kit offering. Let's cross our fingers!


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN


On September 28, 2019 at 5:21 PM Richard Scott <rlscott5709@...> wrote:


Here's a photo of my most recent freight car project, an O-scale D&RGW
double-sheathed automobile car. I built it from a Rails Unlimited
resin body, painted it with Polly Scale acrylics, and lettered it with
Protocraft decals. The 200 cars in the Rio Grande's 61200-61399
series were built by the Mount Vernon Car Company in 1925. Most
remained in service into the 1960s, with the final car, 61346, going
off the roster in 1969.


I have other photos of my steam-era freight cars in "Dick Scott's
models," currently on the first page of our photo section.


Dick Scott



Re: Rio Grande double-sheathed automobile car

vapeurchapelon
 

A beautiful model!

Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953

Gesendet: Sonntag, 29. September 2019 um 01:21 Uhr
Von: "Richard Scott" <rlscott5709@...>
An: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Betreff: [RealSTMFC] Rio Grande double-sheathed automobile car

Here's a photo of my most recent freight car project, an O-scale D&RGW
double-sheathed automobile car. I built it from a Rails Unlimited
resin body, painted it with Polly Scale acrylics, and lettered it with
Protocraft decals. The 200 cars in the Rio Grande's 61200-61399
series were built by the Mount Vernon Car Company in 1925. Most
remained in service into the 1960s, with the final car, 61346, going
off the roster in 1969.


I have other photos of my steam-era freight cars in "Dick Scott's
models," currently on the first page of our photo section.


Dick Scott



Re: Rio Grande double-sheathed automobile car

Donald B. Valentine
 

    My feelings echo Fenton's, Dick. Had a wood model of one of these once in O scale when I used
to operate on a friend's O scale pike every Friday night. Eventually gave it to him and later wished I
had kept it to copy in HO scale. Gary, I hope you're right because I'd love ot have one in HO scale.
Did any eastern roads have clones of these cars?

Cordially, Don Valentine

Re: Rio Grande double-sheathed automobile car

dands54
 

Nice work Dick


Dan Stainton

Re: Rio Grande double-sheathed automobile car

gary laakso
 

Very well done and it looks like it was operating behind steam! The HO resin kit is rumbling it’s way to availability was the last word a year ago.

Gary Laakso
Northwest of Mike Brock

On Sep 28, 2019, at 4:21 PM, Richard Scott <rlscott5709@...> wrote:

Here's a photo of my most recent freight car project, an O-scale D&RGW
double-sheathed automobile car. I built it from a Rails Unlimited
resin body, painted it with Polly Scale acrylics, and lettered it with
Protocraft decals. The 200 cars in the Rio Grande's 61200-61399
series were built by the Mount Vernon Car Company in 1925. Most
remained in service into the 1960s, with the final car, 61346, going
off the roster in 1969.


I have other photos of my steam-era freight cars in "Dick Scott's
models," currently on the first page of our photo section.


Dick Scott



<D&RGW 61346_2.JPG>

Re: Rio Grande double-sheathed automobile car

O Fenton Wells
 

Well done, Love the finish on this car.
Fenton

On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 7:21 PM Richard Scott <rlscott5709@...> wrote:
Here's a photo of my most recent freight car project, an O-scale D&RGW
double-sheathed automobile car.  I built it from a Rails Unlimited
resin body, painted it with Polly Scale acrylics, and lettered it with
Protocraft decals.  The 200 cars in the Rio Grande's 61200-61399
series were built by the Mount Vernon Car Company in 1925.  Most
remained in service into the 1960s, with the final car, 61346, going
off the roster in 1969.


I have other photos of my steam-era freight cars in "Dick Scott's
models," currently on the first page of our photo section.


Dick Scott





--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...

Rio Grande double-sheathed automobile car

Richard Scott
 

Here's a photo of my most recent freight car project, an O-scale D&RGW
double-sheathed automobile car. I built it from a Rails Unlimited
resin body, painted it with Polly Scale acrylics, and lettered it with
Protocraft decals. The 200 cars in the Rio Grande's 61200-61399
series were built by the Mount Vernon Car Company in 1925. Most
remained in service into the 1960s, with the final car, 61346, going
off the roster in 1969.


I have other photos of my steam-era freight cars in "Dick Scott's
models," currently on the first page of our photo section.


Dick Scott

Re: Fish belly underframe

Bob Webber
 

Along with that, alloys and various improvements allowed for less labor intensive means of creating a supporting structure that was "smaller", stronger, & better use of resources and more flexible.

The straight channel sill was found to be sufficiently strong and reduced rivets, time and steel. When weldments came on line that further reduced time and materials. A jig ended up doing the work (or allowing far fewer to work) on the whole structure at the same time.

The same thing happened for passenger cars, but it took a lot longer (for a variety of reasons). the sill does more than "just" impart structure to the frame, it can also lower CoG and provide additional stiffness in specific planes (that otw might fail in certain circumstances). A Standard Pullman was called a battleship for the keel (sill) and the heavy riveted side frame and skin that mimic the (essentially, pre-Dreadnought) Battleship construction.

People tend to forget that huge swaths of industry and society have seen a sudden and virtually entire loss of functions. The Milk industry (& usually associated ice industry) is one large example (used to be 10 ice houses & 4 milk concentrators within 5 miles of here) . But at the same time, the consequences of specific construction methods - of buildings, roads, autos, and freight cars - all changed heavily in the 1910-1940 era. A great many methods WERE regulated out of existence, a great many were simply passed by events.

For instance....driving through beautiful downtown Elgin today, most of the large brick buildings making up a semi-industrial corridor are gone in the last 20 years - and in the resulting open space, you can see that now passed over tech, the pay phone (complete with sign pointing at it) now used mangily by dealers of all sorts. But no one regulated land lines (esp. pay variants) out of existence, some few remain, but the rest have simply outlived their usefulness (and may yet be regulated out of existence due to their use in crimes).

At 01:56 PM 9/28/2019, Dennis Storzek wrote:
And still in use long after the cut-off date of this discussion group. TTX 89' flatcars have fishbelly underframes. The reason we don't see any on house cars built after 1930 or so is designers finally realized the design was overkill; it added weight whereas a straight sill was sufficiently strong.

Dennis Storzek
Bob Webber

Re: Fish belly underframe

Dennis Storzek
 

And still in use long after the cut-off date of this discussion group. TTX 89' flatcars have fishbelly underframes. The reason we don't see any on house cars built after 1930 or so is designers finally realized the design was overkill; it added weight whereas a straight sill was sufficiently strong.

Dennis Storzek

Re: Fish belly underframe

Eric Hansmann
 

No ban that I’m aware of for that center sill design. 

Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On Sep 28, 2019, at 1:36 PM, BillM <fecbill@...> wrote:

What I call a fish belly underframe is the large beam or beams that are visible from the side of a boxcar that have a visible angle. My question is when were these underframes banned from interchange service?

Thank you

Bill Michael

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

Fish belly underframe

BillM
 

What I call a fish belly underframe is the large beam or beams that are visible from the side of a boxcar that have a visible angle. My question is when were these underframes banned from interchange service?

Thank you

Bill Michael

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

Re: Empty Car Card

Tim O'Connor
 


seems obvious enough - there is no "WAYBILL" because the car is empty, but the car does
have a destination. I suppose this would also prevent the car from being "hijacked" down
the line somewhere, since it has a consignment to the destination.



On 9/28/2019 2:13 AM, Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io wrote:

Empty Car Card

Below is an image of a PRR card "For Empty Cars Only".

There are instructions on the bottom of the card, but can anyone provide more insight into the basis and use of this card?

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Attachments:



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: NP Wood Reefer Paint

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

Thanks Gary.  I have been trying to find the flyer that Bill put out covering the orange and yellow refer colors.  Bill did a super job on all os his imported freight cars.  This resulted on my car mix being heavily weighted to cars from the Pacific Northwest which was his specialty.  I just could not say no to his offerings...

I will continue to search for his flyer and will post if I find it.

Bill Pardie



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: gary laakso <vasa0vasa@...>
Date: 9/28/19 3:05 AM (GMT-10:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] NP Wood Reefer Paint

When W&R imported their Northern Pacific wood reefers, they came in wither orange or yellow.  Bill McKeown obtained side hardware for two reefers, and carefully sanded through the layers and here are his findings that include estimated shop dates:

 

#92226

 

Built  yellow

1922 yellow

1927 orange

1932 orange

1937 orange

1942 orange

1947 yellow

1952 yellow and retired the next year

 

#92520

 

Built yellow

1922 yellow

1929 orange

1936 orange

1948 yellow

1950 orange

Retired 1952

 

His color comments were that the yellow was very close to Floquil reefer yellow and the orange was lighter than the skin of a navel or Valencia orange.  “Photographic data shows that even the 50 foot steel ice reefers were retired in either yellow or orange.  My personal theory is that the paint colors differed by the shop location each time the car was rebuilt.”

 

Gary Laakso

Northwest of Mike Brock

Re: 1944 AAR Boxcars

Bob Chapman
 

Ben Hom writes:

For starters, there's Ed Hawkins' spreadsheets posted on the old Ted Cullotta Steam Era Freight Cars website: http://www.steamerafreightcars.com/prototype/frtcars/postwaraarmain.html 


Everything there, beyond my wildest dreams -- RPC-style by Ed Hawkins.


Thanks, Ben (and Ed)!

Bob Chapman



NP Wood Reefer Paint

gary laakso
 

When W&R imported their Northern Pacific wood reefers, they came in wither orange or yellow.  Bill McKeown obtained side hardware for two reefers, and carefully sanded through the layers and here are his findings that include estimated shop dates:

 

#92226

 

Built  yellow

1922 yellow

1927 orange

1932 orange

1937 orange

1942 orange

1947 yellow

1952 yellow and retired the next year

 

#92520

 

Built yellow

1922 yellow

1929 orange

1936 orange

1948 yellow

1950 orange

Retired 1952

 

His color comments were that the yellow was very close to Floquil reefer yellow and the orange was lighter than the skin of a navel or Valencia orange.  “Photographic data shows that even the 50 foot steel ice reefers were retired in either yellow or orange.  My personal theory is that the paint colors differed by the shop location each time the car was rebuilt.”

 

Gary Laakso

Northwest of Mike Brock

Re: NP R23 clone reefer

Fred Jansz
 

My last contribution to this thread:

- If the base color of the roof was black, why would overspray on the runboard be light gray (compared to the black of the ends)?
- Or is it the anti-slip granulate we see as 'overspray' on the runboard?
- the ends & hardware show as pure black in the picture.
- the hatches show us 2 different hues of gray: around and under the lettering and on the rest of the hatch
  These 2 are significantly different, see picture and Photoshop measurement. 
  (BTW: I can't believe the paint & lettering were added OVER the granulate, this part of the hatch was masked while adding the granulate).
- Meaning the original roof paint is showing where the hatch-lettering can be seen.
  This also differs significantly from the black on the tackboard, see Photoshop measurements.

My 2 (or 50) cents: Sides (of this NP R23 91072) chrome yellow, roof red (w granulate), ends & hardware black.
cheers, Fred Jansz