Date   
Re: P&LE Gondola

Donald B. Valentine
 

     I believe u are correct, Todd, and also wonder if Photoshop even existed at the time especially since it is stated that
the photo was taken from a manual a number of years ago. Gary must have been overtired.

Cordially, Don Valentine

Re: P&LE Gondola

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Chad,

Upon reflection, I believe this photo actually shows four crates. While a crate could be over 40' long, I can't see one bending in the middle.

As for load securing banding or other tackle, my interpretation is that the load securing is already gone, either in the actual scene, or done in the darkroom to make a better composition. For example, I don't see is a line actually lifting the upper crate. Well, they didn't have Photoshop in those days, but I suspect that the original photo was retouched to make a better composition, and for possible security reasons.

Also note the large black patches on both crates. This suggests to me that for security reasons some military data or destination indicator has been "redacted", as they say today about documents. There is also strapping on the lower crate to the left of the soldier standing on the car's corner. No such strapping shows on the crate above.
I was a military photographer before the days of digital images, and am familiar with retouching techniques, which I occasionally practiced myself. (I once retouched an award photo we published on the front page of our military newspaper of an officer who used to harass me, giving him a seedy 4-o'clock shadow -- I could be quite naughty sometimes, and somehow never got caught.)

I'm pretty sure the crates are being loaded onto the ship, rather than the other way around. If some gear was coming back from overseas (say captured enemy equipment for study), it would less likely be so carefully crated in matching containers.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 10/22/2019 12:46 AM, Todd Sullivan via Groups.Io wrote:
Gary,

I don't think it's photo shopped.  The number and initials on the far end of the gondola match those on the near end. 

There is an apparent optical illusion due to the guy standing on the forks of the forklift, but I think it's one photo.  It looks like these crates could be in the process of being loaded onto or unloaded from the ship in the background, perhaps at a military base.  Surely, if the crates were to be transported any distance, they would have to be secured to the gon.

Todd Sullivan

Re: is "hogging" a correct word for adjusting truss rod equipped cars

Nolan Hinshaw
 

On Oct 21, 2019, at 18:13, Charles Peck <@Chuckles> wrote:

I believe that "hogging" would be exactly the correct usage. I have worked on paddlewheel steamboats that had what were called "hog chains" for exactly that same purpose, to take out the sag.
If an empty car is given a slight rise in the middle (a hog back), then when loaded it will flatten out. Loose truss rods allow the car to sag, the opposite
of hogged.
Chuck Peck
Hogging as applied to vessels is what happens to the ends, which are less buoyant than the middle - they sag. The hog chains are to reduce the hogging. Long, faiy sharp wooden hulls in later days had diagonal straps let into the ends to resist hogging; they didn’t always work well enough.

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Re: P&LE Gondola

Todd Sullivan
 

Gary,

I don't think it's photo shopped.  The number and initials on the far end of the gondola match those on the near end. 

There is an apparent optical illusion due to the guy standing on the forks of the forklift, but I think it's one photo.  It looks like these crates could be in the process of being loaded onto or unloaded from the ship in the background, perhaps at a military base.  Surely, if the crates were to be transported any distance, they would have to be secured to the gon.

Todd Sullivan

GALVANIZED STERL CULVERT PIPE

WILLIAM PARDIE
 


Just as I was headed out the door to Lysle I received the culvert pipe from Gain Belt Models that was discussed last week  A little shorter than I expected (25 scale feet) but a good looking product and will make a nice load.

Bill Pardie


Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphoneI was headed out the door to Lysle

Re: P&LE Gondola

gary laakso
 

It’s a photo shopped picture.  Look at the forward end of the car (A) and it is GRa while the B end is a G22 same gondola.  Notice the machinery is on the GRa end of the car and the crates are on the B end and behind the machinery.    

 

Gary Laakso

Northwest of Mike Brock

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Garth Groff
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2019 1:28 PM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] P&LE Gondola

 

Friends,

Some years ago I copied this photo from a government document, probably a War Department / Army Transportation Corps manual. I believe it was on US military railroads in WWII, but can't remember the particulars. Never mind.

What is interesting is the P&LE 46' drop-end gondola with a steel floor. This is from series 42000-42999, of which there were still 45 in service in 1958, along with 25 more of nearly identical dimensions in series 45000-46999. Cool car.

Also of interest are the two crates, probably from the guard, filled with military gear. Who says double-stacks are a modern invention.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

Re: is "hogging" a correct word for adjusting truss rod equipped cars

Charles Peck
 

I believe that "hogging" would be exactly the correct usage. I have worked on paddlewheel steamboats that had what were called "hog chains" for exactly that same purpose, to take out the sag.
If an empty car is given a slight rise in the middle (a hog back), then when loaded it will flatten out.  Loose truss rods allow the car to sag, the opposite 
of hogged. 
Chuck Peck

On Mon, Oct 21, 2019 at 8:55 PM Robert kirkham <rdkirkham@...> wrote:

Off-list, I used the phrase “hogging the car by tightening the truss rods”.  A fellow questioned the word choice, and so I thought I’d ask this group whether they have seen the word used in this context?  What is the correct railroad phrase for the notion of tightening truss rods on a wood frame car so the frame is in tension and has appropriate resistance to the weight of a load?

 

Rob Kirkham 

 

Re: New resin freight car kits

steve_wintner
 

I thought the DA ones were round corners? (W post)

is "hogging" a correct word for adjusting truss rod equipped cars

Robert kirkham
 

Off-list, I used the phrase “hogging the car by tightening the truss rods”.  A fellow questioned the word choice, and so I thought I’d ask this group whether they have seen the word used in this context?  What is the correct railroad phrase for the notion of tightening truss rods on a wood frame car so the frame is in tension and has appropriate resistance to the weight of a load?

 

Rob Kirkham 

 

Re: New resin freight car kits

Tim O'Connor
 

Detail Associates - beautiful tooling. Perhaps from Terry Wegman? Both 4/5 and 5/5 ends.

On 10/21/2019 3:42 PM, killercarp via Groups.Io wrote:

Any chance 5/5 square corner 10’6” high ends might be available separately?   I have a number of potential projects that could use them.

Tim VanMersbergen
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*

Re: USRA hoppers: susquehenna question

Steve Salotti
 

My understanding (which I no longer remember where it came from) is that the NYS&W cars were of the Erie design with the ribs going horizontal,and depending on the era the Susquehanna had no cars in interchange service, but had 25 hoppers for online use only.  I can't state where they came from or how long they were in service.  I have seen the cars which I believe were made by Accurail, in the 5000 series, but don't know if they are accurate.
Steve Salotti

P&LE Gondola

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Friends,

Some years ago I copied this photo from a government document, probably a War Department / Army Transportation Corps manual. I believe it was on US military railroads in WWII, but can't remember the particulars. Never mind.

What is interesting is the P&LE 46' drop-end gondola with a steel floor. This is from series 42000-42999, of which there were still 45 in service in 1958, along with 25 more of nearly identical dimensions in series 45000-46999. Cool car.

Also of interest are the two crates, probably from the guard, filled with military gear. Who says double-stacks are a modern invention.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

Re: New resin freight car kits

killercarp
 

Any chance 5/5 square corner 10’6” high ends might be available separately?   I have a number of potential projects that could use them. 

Tim VanMersbergen

Re: SOO Line prewar 50 foot double door box car

James Brewer
 


On Mon, Oct 21, 2019 at 3:23 PM Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

what Soo Line freight car book?


On 10/21/2019 12:37 PM, mopacfirst wrote:
> So the one thing I'm curious about, that I don't recall from the Soo
> book (mine is packed),is what prompted the center-door design?  I know
> this became quite a bit more common, alter the end of this list, but
> was it a specific need, say specific loading spot spacing, specific
> commodity, or this is an inherently better design because it's
> symmetrical?  (I threw that last one in out of thin air.)
>
> Ron Merrick


--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*



Re: SOO Line prewar 50 foot double door box car

Tim O'Connor
 

what Soo Line freight car book?

On 10/21/2019 12:37 PM, mopacfirst wrote:
So the one thing I'm curious about, that I don't recall from the Soo book (mine is packed),is what prompted the center-door design?  I know this became quite a bit more common, alter the end of this list, but was it a specific need, say specific loading spot spacing, specific commodity, or this is an inherently better design because it's symmetrical?  (I threw that last one in out of thin air.)

Ron Merrick
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*

Re: SOO Line prewar 50 foot double door box car

Dennis Storzek
 

On Mon, Oct 21, 2019 at 09:37 AM, mopacfirst wrote:
So the one thing I'm curious about, that I don't recall from the Soo book (mine is packed),is what prompted the center-door design?
As far as I know, while the cars were marked "AUTOMOBILE" because the AAR lettering standards said they were supposed to be, the cars were actually built for paper loading. The paper mills liked the big door openings for loading rolls of newsprint, and staggered doors were of no advantage. Within the next fifteen years (in the future for this discussion group) the standard boxcar on the Soo was a fifty foot car with a 10' plug door, which suited the paper mills just fine.

Dennis Storzek

Re: SOO Line prewar 50 foot double door box car

Ken Soroos
 

Hi Dan -

The third type of W.C. 50’ double-door boxcars (350 total) was built/assembled by the Soo Line at its North Fond du Lac, WI shops in 1950, 1954 and 1957.  These cars were built with underframes and hardware fabricated at NFduL.  Sides, R/3/4 Dreadnaught ends, diagonal panel roofs and doors (Youngstown) were sourced from other manufacturers.  These cars had 50-6” inside lengths and 10’-6” inside heights.

W.C. 176500-176598 (even nos. only)   (50 cars)   1950   GMS 5965
W.C. 176600-176798 (even nos. only)   (100 cars)   1954   GMS 6403
W.C. 177100-177498 (even nos. only)   (200 cars)   1957   GMS 6936

There is more photographic evidence relating to the 40’ boxcars also built at North Fond du Lac from 1949 through 1958.  I’m quite sure the ends were the same for the 40’ and 50’ cars based on years built.  All were of the R-3-4 configuration.  However, the cars built in 1950 and 1954 had “rolling pin” tapers to their non-rectangular end ribs and those built in 1957 had even (banana?) tapers to those ribs.  The side sills on the 1950-built double-door cars were “notched” towards the ends as opposed to the smooth transitions in Tim’s second photo.  The 1950-built cars would have had the Soo's “dollar-sign” herald originally as in Tim’s first photo, but by 1954 the 4’ billboard lettering had been adopted for newly built cars.

Ken Soroos


On Oct 21, 2019, at 2:01 AM, Dan Smith <espeefan@...> wrote:

Hello Ken,

In your info about Tim's second photo, build dates are 50, 54 and 57. Did the R-3-4 ends change between 50 and 54? Do you have # of cars built for each date? # series? No changes to basic features between dates?

Thanks in advance for any info.

Soo line info deprived,
Dan Smith

AAR open load books

Douglas Harding
 

I’ve got a friend who wants to give them away newer AAR open load books. I’ll have them with me at Chicagoland.

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

Re: USRA hoppers: susquehenna question

Benjamin Hom
 

Brad Andonian asked:
"I cannot locate a file of USRA hoppers with road names etc; I am looking to get confirmation that Susquehenna had these cars....    Any images and data would be appreciated.   I have located HO models on ebay, but am not sure of the accuracy of the lettering etc."

Best source on USRA freight car allocations is the Lane article in Railroad History No. 128 published in Spring 1973, summarized by Eric Hansmann on his blog here:
https://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/usra-freight-car-assignments/

Neither NYS&W nor Erie were allocated USRA twin hoppers; I'm not sure if they obtained 1920s copies or cars secondhand.  These are easy to spot in the ORER - look for HM with 30 ft 6 in inside length, 10 ft 8 in height of sides above rail, and 1880 cubic feet capacity.


Ben Hom

Re: USRA hoppers: susquehenna question

Eric Hansmann
 

The full USRA car assignments are presented as a resource page on my blog.

http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/usra-freight-car-assignments/

 

These tables only note the USRA assignments, not the original allocations (which changes) or any clones and copies that railroads purchased after USRA control was relinquished.

 

Neither the NYS&W and the Erie were assigned any USRA hoppers.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brad Andonian
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2019 11:47 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] USRA hoppers: susquehenna question

 

Gentlemen,
I cannot locate a file of USRA hoppers with road names etc; I am looking to get confirmation that Susquehenna had these cars....    Any images and data would be appreciated.   I have located HO models on ebay, but am not sure of the accuracy of the lettering etc.

Thank you,

Brad