Date   
Re: P&LE Gondola

Donald B. Valentine
 

     I believe u are correct, Todd, and also wonder if Photoshop even existed at the time especially since it is stated that
the photo was taken from a manual a number of years ago. Gary must have been overtired.

Cordially, Don Valentine

Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] P&LE Gondola

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Very nice shot, Garth!

I like the very visible B end details, which you don't often have a clear view of.

Thanks for sharing!

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Garth Groff
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2019 4:28 PM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] P&LE Gondola

Friends,

Some years ago I copied this photo from a government document, probably a War Department / Army Transportation Corps manual. I believe it was on US military railroads in WWII, but can't remember the particulars. Never mind.

What is interesting is the P&LE 46' drop-end gondola with a steel floor. This is from series 42000-42999, of which there were still 45 in service in 1958, along with 25 more of nearly identical dimensions in series 45000-46999. Cool car.

Also of interest are the two crates, probably from the guard, filled with military gear. Who says double-stacks are a modern invention.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

Chicagoland Clinic: Machinist Tools

Bill Welch
 

If you are a modeler be sure to catch Ryan Mendell's clinic about Machinist's Tools. He is in charge of the Univ. of Toronto's Engineering Dept. Shop and knows his tools. I should add that my checking account was barking at me for a couple of weeks after.

Bill Welch

Re: is "hogging" a correct word for adjusting truss rod equipped cars

Dennis Storzek
 

The modern term in car building is camber; TTX flats are built with a camber. However, I can see where in our agrarian past comparisons to the shape of a hog's back could become common terms.

Dennis Storzek 

Baltimore & Ohio early diesel lettering font

Brad Andonian
 

I am working on an AS-16 and alco switcher and need info on lettering.

i know it was delux gold on blue ( scale coat has the shade) what was the font used?

this is the spelled out Baltimore and Ohio.
thanks,
brad andonian 

Re: GALVANIZED STERL CULVERT PIPE

Brad Andonian
 

I have been in contact with them hoping to get an o scale version....

I think they stated there are limitations with their printer.
brad andonian 

Re: GALVANIZED STERL CULVERT PIPE

mopacfirst
 

I ordered some too, nice looking parts.  Perhaps the corrugations are a bit oversize for HO, so maybe they'd look appropriate for O.  But I think the lengths are about right for what I know about the prototype.  I haven't looked up the actual AASTHO spec M-36 to see what it says.

They're not bright like brand-new galvanized steel is, but I was thinking more as actual installed culvert pipe, meaning I'd cut up a couple of joints of this pipe to install in the scenery.  I might eventually use them as a load, or to be stacked in a material yard somewhere.

Ron Merrick

Re: is "hogging" a correct word for adjusting truss rod equipped cars

Randy Hees
 

As suggested, "Hogging" "Hog backed" or "Hogged" are terms, used for wooden railroad cars (mostly flat cars, as the wall truss in box cars make them less susceptible) which have had their truss rods tightened too much.  As noted by others it comes from wooden ships, which would hog because the center of the hull was more buoyant than the ends.

Unlike modern flat semi trailers which are designed with a hog which flattens under load, a hogged railroad car was not desirable.  It generally was thought of as a worn out car, hogged as car inspectors tightened the truss rods as the wooden sills failed, and end beams crushed.  I suspect that a hogged car was more  likely to fail in train service, especially when unloaded, as the train bunched behind them.

I spent nearly 3 months researching how to tighten truss and tension rods for a restoration project.  I read every copy of National Car Builder, every issue of Railroad Gazette, every issue of Railroad Engineering, all the Master Car Builders proceedings, Voss and Kirkman.  There was nothing in writing about how tight a car's truss rods should be tightened, nothing on how to do it (do you jack and block the car straight or can you pull it straight by tightening the truss rods?)  I turned to wood truss bridges, particularly those being rebuilt in modern times with preservation studies... again nothing...  Apparently this was not how that knowledge was taught...  I did find information in interchange rules on how much a railroad could charge if they tightened truss rods or replaced a truss rod on the queen post if became unseated on an off road car,,,  The allowance for tightening as less than the minimum billable amount (but could be charged if other work was done).  resenting a truss rod was independently billable. 

Randy Hees

Re: is "hogging" a correct word for adjusting truss rod equipped cars

Charles Peck
 

When I was working at the Kentucky Railway Museum, I met an old carman.
He told me he had just started on the railroad the only time he had to deal with truss rods. He said they tightened trussrods by sounding with a hammer.  A dull note was too loose.  One that was sharper than the others was too tight. All should have about the same sound when struck. 
The correct tone is something one learns from experience, I suppose.
Chuck Peck

On Tue, Oct 22, 2019 at 11:04 AM Randy Hees <randyhees@...> wrote:
As suggested, "Hogging" "Hog backed" or "Hogged" are terms, used for wooden railroad cars (mostly flat cars, as the wall truss in box cars make them less susceptible) which have had their truss rods tightened too much.  As noted by others it comes from wooden ships, which would hog because the center of the hull was more buoyant than the ends.

Unlike modern flat semi trailers which are designed with a hog which flattens under load, a hogged railroad car was not desirable.  It generally was thought of as a worn out car, hogged as car inspectors tightened the truss rods as the wooden sills failed, and end beams crushed.  I suspect that a hogged car was more  likely to fail in train service, especially when unloaded, as the train bunched behind them.

I spent nearly 3 months researching how to tighten truss and tension rods for a restoration project.  I read every copy of National Car Builder, every issue of Railroad Gazette, every issue of Railroad Engineering, all the Master Car Builders proceedings, Voss and Kirkman.  There was nothing in writing about how tight a car's truss rods should be tightened, nothing on how to do it (do you jack and block the car straight or can you pull it straight by tightening the truss rods?)  I turned to wood truss bridges, particularly those being rebuilt in modern times with preservation studies... again nothing...  Apparently this was not how that knowledge was taught...  I did find information in interchange rules on how much a railroad could charge if they tightened truss rods or replaced a truss rod on the queen post if became unseated on an off road car,,,  The allowance for tightening as less than the minimum billable amount (but could be charged if other work was done).  resenting a truss rod was independently billable. 

Randy Hees

Re: Susquehanna 40’ boxcars c1940-48

Steve Salotti
 

Not sure if this is going to the group, if so sorry, it's old news.  On August 26th John Sykes mentioned a roster for the NYS&W, I've downloaded it and have a question about the roster.  There are two groups of hoppers listed, John, is one group the Erie horizontal rib cars as produced by Funaro & Carmerlengo, and the other standard style hoppers?  

TIA Steve Salotti

Re: is "hogging" a correct word for adjusting truss rod equipped cars

Jim Betz
 

  My brother worked in trucking in the 70's, 80's, and 90's.  The company
he worked for specialized in flat bed trucks.  They had one guy in the
shop who was the only one who was 'trusted' to re-camber the trailers.
He did so by using a heat gun or torch and causing the linear beams
of the flat bed trailer to regain the proper amount of camber.  When he
was done the trailer had about a 4" to 6" rise in the center (unloaded).
  Pretty much the same idea as "tapping the truss rods to see if they
all had the same tone" ... *G*  My brother did not say that he tapped
the bed/frame with a hammer and listened (but he might have).  What
he did say was that the guy would put the trailer somewhere in the
yard where he could stand back from it and look at the arch.  His
skill was in knowing where to apply heat to get the proper amount
of arch and also not have the trailer "twisted" ... and I'm sure he had
to let it cool before saying "it's done".
                                                                 - Jim B. in Burlington, Wa.

NYS&W Hoppers (was Re: [RealSTMFC] Susquehanna 40’ boxcars c1940-48)

Benjamin Hom
 

Steve Salotti asked:
"Not sure if this is going to the group, if so sorry, it's old news.  On August 26th John Sykes mentioned a roster for the NYS&W, I've downloaded it and have a question about the roster.  There are two groups of hoppers listed, John, is one group the Erie horizontal rib cars as produced by Funaro & Carmerlengo, and the other standard style hoppers? "

The 5039-series hoppers are side-dump cars are definitely not "standard style hoppers".  The attached Ambroid instruction sheet from the HO Seeker website has a photo of these cars, verifying that the USRA hopper model that you asked about in your previous post is a foobie.

My gut feeling about the 10 cars scattered in the 33610-77138 series is they're not the horizontal rib cars based on the 30 ft IL and 1807 cu ft capacity, which seems kind of small for the horizontal rib cars.  My guess is that they're probably Bob Karig's early common standard twins, but as always, a photo or full ORER entry would help.


Ben Hom 

Re: is "hogging" a correct word for adjusting truss rod equipped cars

Charlie Vlk
 

All-

The attached image, although of a baggage car truss rod underframe, shows a camber intentionally built into the unloaded frame.   The second image shows the car loaded up with railroad wheels, straightening it out.  I don’t know if cars were normally built with some camber in the frame but I suspect that they were but perhaps not as extreme for just the wood superstructure and anticipated normal loading for a baggage car.  The truss rods might have been tightened during normal car construction to keep things true and the process not noted anywhere because it was such common practice.

These photos are from the Aurora (Illinois) Shops Test Lab photo album at the Newberry Library Burlington Archives and date from 1903.

Charlie Vlk

 

Hey buddy, I got your Galvanized Pipe Load. . .

Bill Welch
 

Clark Propst shared this photo with me a few years ago: ATSF 90725 found in Manly, Iowa on 7-13-67.

Bill Welch

Re: Hey buddy, I got your Galvanized Pipe Load. . .

Thomas Birkett
 

They need a load shifter: there was one at the New Rip at Argentine which had been there for a LONG time. It was like a wood guillotine that was lowered until it could contact the pipe or culvert or lumber that had shifted in switching. Call in a switch engine and shove the car a little and it was back in place. Get the carmen to resecure the load and send it on to the customer. The alternative was not nearly as quick

Tom Birkett, Bartlesville, OK

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill Welch
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2019 4:06 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Hey buddy, I got your Galvanized Pipe Load. . .

 

Clark Propst shared this photo with me a few years ago: ATSF 90725 found in Manly, Iowa on 7-13-67.

Bill Welch

NYS&W Hoppers (was Re: [RealSTMFC] Susquehanna 40’ boxcars c1940-48)

David
 

My gut feeling about the 10 cars scattered in the 33610-77138 series is they're not the horizontal rib cars based on the 30 ft IL and 1807 cu ft capacity, which seems kind of small for the horizontal rib cars.?? My guess is that they're probably Bob Karig's early common standard twins, but as always, a photo or full ORER entry would help.
The January 1955 ORER gives 30' IL, 9'2" IW, and 11'2" height to eaves. These are uncommonly tall and skinny hoppers for the 1950s. After thinking about it for a bit and playing a hunch, the ten cars are most likely ex-N&W class H1 series 33000-37999, 71000-72499, 74000-77267, late- 1930s rebuilds of what started out as their first all-steel drop-bottom hoppers in the Teens. ORER data is identical to the NYS&W group and the numbers align. N&W retired these cars circa 1949-51.

David Thompson

Re: is "hogging" a correct word for adjusting truss rod equipped cars

Donald B. Valentine
 

Dennis Storzek wrote, "The modern term in car building is camber" and that is the same term that has been used
for heavy haul trailers for years as well. One can see then on any Interstate in the US and Canada any day they choose.
On automobiles, however, the term hjas a different meaning.

Cordially, Don Valentine

Re: Baltimore & Ohio early diesel lettering font

joseph nevin
 

The B&O's PostWar fonts were of inhouse design.  The  style was close to Railroad Roman, but the letters are elongated and terminated  with a bit more "florish" then the Roman lettering.  The B&O RRHS has a website (borhs.org) open to all, and in the archives section there are examples of the lettering.

Joe Nevin

Re: is "hogging" a correct word for adjusting truss rod equipped cars

Robert kirkham
 

Thanks for the responses on this – I learned something!  From now on, tightening will be my word choice. 

 

Rob

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Donald B. Valentine via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2019 4:48 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] is "hogging" a correct word for adjusting truss rod equipped cars

 

Dennis Storzek wrote, "The modern term in car building is camber" and that is the same term that has been used

for heavy haul trailers for years as well. One can see then on any Interstate in the US and Canada any day they choose.

On automobiles, however, the term hjas a different meaning.

 

Cordially, Don Valentine

Re: Precision Scale retainer valve

Bryian Sones
 

Hello All,

I'm low on stock of the 585-31796 Retainer Valves. Does anyone know a hobby shop that still has these?

Thanks,
 
Bryian Sones
Union Pacific Prototype Modeler
Murrieta, CA


On Saturday, October 19, 2019, 12:38:14 AM PDT, Fred Jansz <fred@...> wrote:


Thanks all for good advise.
best regards,
Fred Jansz