Date   
RPM Chicagoland summary

Eric Hansmann
 

I’ve posted a short summary of the recently RPM Chicagoland event. This includes a link to a gallery of photos I snapped during the meet. Please share the link with friends so they can plan to attend an RPM. Enjoy!

 

http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/2019/10/30/2019-rpm-chicagoland-summary/

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

Re: Swift paint scheme

Steve and Barb Hile
 

Curiouser and curiouser.  The orthocromatic film theory doesn't explain the example of the dark colored Swift car from Pittsburg with the 1952 Chevy billboard in the background that Doug Harding referred to.
 
 
Also, Dave Parker's made a point about "new" or "added" cars entering the 12xxx series for Swift under GAT by the mid 1930's.  Plus the car that we're discussing has those corner straps and a fishbelly underframe, both of which are not at all common among Swift cars.  Perhaps GAT was adding cars from other builders/leaseholders to the Swift fleet as needed.  Yet another challenge.
 
Steve



From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dennis Storzek
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2019 8:20 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Swift paint scheme

On Tue, Oct 29, 2019 at 08:30 PM, Steve and Barb Hile wrote:
If you then look around the car corner, into the shadowed side of the car, the items that wrap around the corner, such as the facial and the corner strap are all darker in the shadow side.  So, I will assume that the whole car side is dark and the lettering is white, and not an optical illusion.
There is one argument against this theory; there IS black (or at least dark) lettering on the car side. Look just to the left of the third from the bottom grab that makes the side ladder, and you will see the top line of the dimensional data as light colored lettering. The next couple lines are missing as the lettering morphs to a graytone that matches the side, then the bottom two lines are faintly visible as dark lettering. Same with the reporting marks, the top line (or bar) and SRLX appear light, the number is missing, but then the bottom line appears dark.

I think we are being fooled by a photo taken on orthchromatic film, which typically turns yellows very dark. I am very familiar with photos of Soo Line reefers that appear to have absolutely no lettering other than the $ herald; the black lettering and yellow side are both rendered as the same graytine. Looking at the subject photo, both the side fascia and side sill appear slight;y darker than the sidem which would be consistent with FCR fascia, yellow side, and black underframe.

How to explain the apparent white lettering on the side? It is possible that glossier black paint is reflecting sunlight. This brings to mind a question; was Swift using glass beads in their lettering? The technique was relatively popular during the thirties and forties, to give a surface that would reflect auto headlights at grade crossings, sort of a precursor to Scotchlite.  The beads were typically applied to fresh stencil paste because it stayed sticky long enough to grab them and bond them to the car. Car Builder's Cycs of the era have ads for the glass beads, the trade name escapes me at the moment.

Dennis Storzek

Re: New Manufacturer

Michael Gross
 

 I spoke with them, yes, and they have some interesting ideas. Among them, a styrene version of the ATSF Bx 11 — Bx 13 single sheathed box car series. If I recall our conversation, they are hoping to crowd source their company. 
--
Michael Gross
Pasadena, CA

Re: Swift paint scheme

Benjamin Hom
 

Dennis Storzek wrote:
"How to explain the apparent white lettering on the side? It is possible that glossier black paint is reflecting sunlight. This brings to mind a question; was Swift using glass beads in their lettering? The technique was relatively popular during the thirties and forties, to give a surface that would reflect auto headlights at grade crossings, sort of a precursor to Scotchlite.  The beads were typically applied to fresh stencil paste because it stayed sticky long enough to grab them and bond them to the car. Car Builder's Cycs of the era have ads for the glass beads, the trade name escapes me at the moment."

"Prismo" was one of the trade names.  There are two photos in Brady McGuire's PRR Boxcar Paint and Lettering article in Vol. 21, No. 2 (Summer 1988) of The Keystone of a Class X29 boxcar in MS2 (Merchandise Service large Circle Keystone scheme without aluminum bands or Toluidine Red accents) in Prismo paint, one in regular lighting, the other in reduced lighting showing the reflective properties of the paint.


Ben Hom

Re: Swift paint scheme

Dennis Storzek
 

On Tue, Oct 29, 2019 at 08:30 PM, Steve and Barb Hile wrote:
If you then look around the car corner, into the shadowed side of the car, the items that wrap around the corner, such as the facial and the corner strap are all darker in the shadow side.  So, I will assume that the whole car side is dark and the lettering is white, and not an optical illusion.
There is one argument against this theory; there IS black (or at least dark) lettering on the car side. Look just to the left of the third from the bottom grab that makes the side ladder, and you will see the top line of the dimensional data as light colored lettering. The next couple lines are missing as the lettering morphs to a graytone that matches the side, then the bottom two lines are faintly visible as dark lettering. Same with the reporting marks, the top line (or bar) and SRLX appear light, the number is missing, but then the bottom line appears dark.

I think we are being fooled by a photo taken on orthchromatic film, which typically turns yellows very dark. I am very familiar with photos of Soo Line reefers that appear to have absolutely no lettering other than the $ herald; the black lettering and yellow side are both rendered as the same graytine. Looking at the subject photo, both the side fascia and side sill appear slight;y darker than the sidem which would be consistent with FCR fascia, yellow side, and black underframe.

How to explain the apparent white lettering on the side? It is possible that glossier black paint is reflecting sunlight. This brings to mind a question; was Swift using glass beads in their lettering? The technique was relatively popular during the thirties and forties, to give a surface that would reflect auto headlights at grade crossings, sort of a precursor to Scotchlite.  The beads were typically applied to fresh stencil paste because it stayed sticky long enough to grab them and bond them to the car. Car Builder's Cycs of the era have ads for the glass beads, the trade name escapes me at the moment.

Dennis Storzek

New Manufacturer

Bill Welch
 

https://www.prototypejunction.com/?m=1

Anyone meet John or Randy at Lisle? Let the speculation begin?

Bill Welch

Re: Swift paint scheme

Dave Parker
 

As Steve noted, Swift apparently renumbered the 12000-12999 series cars into the 40000 series sometime in 1925.  But, the 12000 series was repopulated with cars sometime between 12/30 and 7/34 (based on my ORERs).  From then through 1945 at least, this series contained five or more sub-series with small variations in dimensions and capacity, suggesting a mix of cars from differing origins. It does not appear in my 1/54 register.

In addition, the switch from SRL to SRLX dates to 1934-35, with completion by 1938.  The photo of 12624 on the old steam era website (and on Wiki) has the SLRX reporting mark and KC brakes.  It also bears a full list of equipment on the car end, a practice that many owners dropped with the adoption of the 1927 ARA lettering standards.  Swift seems to have been an exception in that the early 1930s builders' photos in Hendrickson and Kaminski all show that list on the end.  Photos from the 1950s seem to show a more limited two lines of data on the ends.

If I had to throw a dart at it, I'd say that photo is late 1930s or early 1940s.   As to why it's FCC (or red) rather yellow, I have no inkling.

Hope this helps.
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA

Re: Swift paint scheme

Richard Townsend
 

Well that photo seems pretty definitive. Curiouser and curiouser. And another reason I wish I had gone to Chicagoland. Thanks for the info.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Douglas Harding <doug.harding@...>
To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Tue, Oct 29, 2019 8:31 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Swift paint scheme

Richard a group of us gathered at Chicagoland last Friday to discuss the Swift reefer fleet. This included looking at photos both Steve Hile and I had collected. The photo you asked about is one that had us puzzled as it does not match any of known paint schemes. However I have seen one other photo that appears to have a Swift reefer with the same paint scheme.
 
Based on the Chevy billboard I would say the photo is circa 1952. Look at the reefer on the lower left. It appears to have the same paint scheme, dark color (red?) with while/light lettering. I can’t make out the number, but it is a four digit number and looks like it might begin with 4, which would put it in the largest block of Swift reefers in the early 50s, 3500-5199 with 1517 cars in the 1953 ORER.
 
The P/L schemes appears to be a solid red, with white lettering/font that matches the black lettering/font on yellow cars, right down to the word “refrigerator” on the right of the door. Which is odd as the word refrigerator is on the left side as well. The new 1950 P/L scheme was red cars with the white fascia board that had white lettering that with the word “Swift” in very large letters on the right side of the door, just like the red banner found on the 1948 paint scheme.
 
I going to guess that Swift experimented with their new red P/L scheme before settling on the final design. The car you asked about, SRLX 12624, has the small word refrigerator on the right side, not the large banner sized Swift. So this may have been a transition design that lost out to the large banner size “Swift”.
 
Doug  Harding
www.iowacentralrr.org
 
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Richard Townsend via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2019 9:06 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Swift paint scheme
 
I my on-going research into the Swift & Co. freight car fleet, I have found this photo: http://www.steamerafreightcars.com/gallery/reefer/srlx12824main.html
 
I am in a quandary about its paint scheme. At first look the car appears to have dark sides with light lettering. Perhaps like the bright red cars with white lettering that included the large banner "Swift" to the right of the door. But the lettering on this car is the same style as used on Swift reefers two paint schemes before the all red sides.
 
On closer examination, I think there may be an optical illusion at work here. Notice the reporting marks and car number on the side. They appear to grade into a dark color. So I'm thinking the "lightness" of the lettering might just be an artifact of how the light is reflecting off the (glossy) paint used for the lettering. It might just be a yellow-sided car with black lettering.
 
What says the throbbing brain of the RealSTMFC group?
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR
 

Re: Swift paint scheme

Douglas Harding
 

Richard a group of us gathered at Chicagoland last Friday to discuss the Swift reefer fleet. This included looking at photos both Steve Hile and I had collected. The photo you asked about is one that had us puzzled as it does not match any of known paint schemes. However I have seen one other photo that appears to have a Swift reefer with the same paint scheme.

https://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3A86.16.109/from_search/0e627706c76dfa0bd1e3411e89500dfc-91

 

Based on the Chevy billboard I would say the photo is circa 1952. Look at the reefer on the lower left. It appears to have the same paint scheme, dark color (red?) with while/light lettering. I can’t make out the number, but it is a four digit number and looks like it might begin with 4, which would put it in the largest block of Swift reefers in the early 50s, 3500-5199 with 1517 cars in the 1953 ORER.

 

The P/L schemes appears to be a solid red, with white lettering/font that matches the black lettering/font on yellow cars, right down to the word “refrigerator” on the right of the door. Which is odd as the word refrigerator is on the left side as well. The new 1950 P/L scheme was red cars with the white fascia board that had white lettering that with the word “Swift” in very large letters on the right side of the door, just like the red banner found on the 1948 paint scheme.

 

I going to guess that Swift experimented with their new red P/L scheme before settling on the final design. The car you asked about, SRLX 12624, has the small word refrigerator on the right side, not the large banner sized Swift. So this may have been a transition design that lost out to the large banner size “Swift”.

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Richard Townsend via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2019 9:06 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Swift paint scheme

 

I my on-going research into the Swift & Co. freight car fleet, I have found this photo: http://www.steamerafreightcars.com/gallery/reefer/srlx12824main.html

 

I am in a quandary about its paint scheme. At first look the car appears to have dark sides with light lettering. Perhaps like the bright red cars with white lettering that included the large banner "Swift" to the right of the door. But the lettering on this car is the same style as used on Swift reefers two paint schemes before the all red sides.

 

On closer examination, I think there may be an optical illusion at work here. Notice the reporting marks and car number on the side. They appear to grade into a dark color. So I'm thinking the "lightness" of the lettering might just be an artifact of how the light is reflecting off the (glossy) paint used for the lettering. It might just be a yellow-sided car with black lettering.

 

What says the throbbing brain of the RealSTMFC group?

Richard Townsend

Lincoln City, OR

 

Re: Swift paint scheme

Steve and Barb Hile
 

We have puzzled over this one, too.  Besides the Steam Era Website photo, I ran into it on Wiki site, too.
 
Here's my  two cents worth.  It would certainly appear that everything on the car end, from the fascia down to the end sill is the same color, presumably dark (freight car red), based on the lighter (white) lettering.
 
If you then look around the car corner, into the shadowed side of the car, the items that wrap around the corner, such as the facial and the corner strap are all darker in the shadow side.  So, I will assume that the whole car side is dark and the lettering is white, and not an optical illusion.
 
The 12000 series cars (with, apparently, fish belly underframes) are noted as being renumbered into the 40000 series as a footnote in the January 1925 ORER.  I understand that Swift had contracted with Quaker to do this conversion, which led to GAT's involvement, as it purchased Quaker later in the late 1920's.  So, that puts some upper date limit on the photo.
 
Other theories are most welcome.
 
Steve Hile



From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Richard Townsend via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2019 9:06 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Swift paint scheme

I my on-going research into the Swift & Co. freight car fleet, I have found this photo: http://www.steamerafreightcars.com/gallery/reefer/srlx12824main.html

I am in a quandary about its paint scheme. At first look the car appears to have dark sides with light lettering. Perhaps like the bright red cars with white lettering that included the large banner "Swift" to the right of the door. But the lettering on this car is the same style as used on Swift reefers two paint schemes before the all red sides.

On closer examination, I think there may be an optical illusion at work here. Notice the reporting marks and car number on the side. They appear to grade into a dark color. So I'm thinking the "lightness" of the lettering might just be an artifact of how the light is reflecting off the (glossy) paint used for the lettering. It might just be a yellow-sided car with black lettering.

What says the throbbing brain of the RealSTMFC group?

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR

Swift paint scheme

Richard Townsend
 

I my on-going research into the Swift & Co. freight car fleet, I have found this photo: http://www.steamerafreightcars.com/gallery/reefer/srlx12824main.html

I am in a quandary about its paint scheme. At first look the car appears to have dark sides with light lettering. Perhaps like the bright red cars with white lettering that included the large banner "Swift" to the right of the door. But the lettering on this car is the same style as used on Swift reefers two paint schemes before the all red sides.

On closer examination, I think there may be an optical illusion at work here. Notice the reporting marks and car number on the side. They appear to grade into a dark color. So I'm thinking the "lightness" of the lettering might just be an artifact of how the light is reflecting off the (glossy) paint used for the lettering. It might just be a yellow-sided car with black lettering.

What says the throbbing brain of the RealSTMFC group?

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR

Re: Help with Manufacturer?

Chuck Cover
 

Thanks to all who have contributed to this inquiry.  The consensus is that it is a Silver Streak model that has been modified. 

 

Chuck Cover

Santa Fe, NM

Re: Consolidated Freightways at Lisle question

Bill Welch
 

On Tue, Oct 29, 2019 at 11:19 AM, mel perry wrote:
i wonder if these are winross or tonkin?
mel perry
I tend to doubt it but no way to know for sure until the modeler can be found.

Bill Welch

Tom Madden

Ted Schnepf
 

Hello Tom,

Please contact me off list to continue our discussion from Lisle.  I can't seem to send a email to you from your postings on this list.

Sorry to waste everyone's  band space.

Ted Schnepf
126 Will Scarlet,
Elgin, Ill. 60120


847=697-5353

Re: Consolidated Freightways at Lisle question

mel perry
 

i wonder if these are winross or tonkin?
mel perry

Evergreen Styrene Quality Control

Bill Welch
 

I often use Evergreen's 0.005 sheet styrene cutting it into any number of widths of strip or shapes (I have no actual life) and have through the years developed a feel for it. Recently while handling it I noticed it felt differently so I got my Mitutoyo Digital Caliper and found it to actually be 0.0065" thick. I have tried both calling and emailing Evergreen to let them know with no response.

Since then I bought some 2x2 styrene strip (#8202) and find it to be noticeably rectangular. Anyone else noticing slippage in quality control at Evergreen?

Wondering if anyone here might have a reliable way to contact Evergreen—maybe they know someone there? I am willing to make the contact, just need a way through the door so-to-speak.

Bill Welch

Re: Consolidated Freightways at Lisle question

Steve and Barb Hile
 

Here is this year's overall display.  Very nicely done models
 
Steve Hile



From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Daniel A. Mitchell
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2019 8:26 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Consolidated Freightways at Lisle question

The display was much the same last year, with ten or so assorted Freightways trucks. Here’s a photo of one from the 2018 RPM meet …


Dan Mitchell
==========

On Oct 29, 2019, at 7:01 AM, mel perry <clipper841@...> wrote:

did anyone take a pic?
mel perry

On Tue, Oct 29, 2019, 3:57 AM Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:
I did not see an info card with those models.


Eric Hansmann 
Murfreesboro, TN

On October 29, 2019 at 4:54 AM Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote: 

Does anyone know who had the wonderful Consolidated Freightways truck and trailer models at Chicagoland RPM26 last week? 

Going directly to jail for being off topic. . . 

Bill Welch

 





Re: Consolidated Freightways at Lisle question

Daniel A. Mitchell
 

The display was much the same last year, with ten or so assorted Freightways trucks. Here’s a photo of one from the 2018 RPM meet …


Dan Mitchell
==========

On Oct 29, 2019, at 7:01 AM, mel perry <clipper841@...> wrote:

did anyone take a pic?
mel perry

On Tue, Oct 29, 2019, 3:57 AM Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:
I did not see an info card with those models.


Eric Hansmann 
Murfreesboro, TN

On October 29, 2019 at 4:54 AM Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote: 

Does anyone know who had the wonderful Consolidated Freightways truck and trailer models at Chicagoland RPM26 last week? 

Going directly to jail for being off topic. . . 

Bill Welch

 





Re: Consolidated Freightways at Lisle question

mel perry
 

did anyone take a pic?
mel perry

On Tue, Oct 29, 2019, 3:57 AM Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:
I did not see an info card with those models.


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On October 29, 2019 at 4:54 AM Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:

Does anyone know who had the wonderful Consolidated Freightways truck and trailer models at Chicagoland RPM26 last week?

Going directly to jail for being off topic. . .

Bill Welch

 


Re: Consolidated Freightways at Lisle question

Eric Hansmann
 

I did not see an info card with those models.


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On October 29, 2019 at 4:54 AM Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:

Does anyone know who had the wonderful Consolidated Freightways truck and trailer models at Chicagoland RPM26 last week?

Going directly to jail for being off topic. . .

Bill Welch