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Re: OMI 1930-built GATC 10,000 Gal double dome tank car
was Arnt (Arndt?) the fellow who had those great Lake Michigan car ferry models at Naperville?
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On 11/5/2019 1:21 PM, Fred Jansz wrote:
Thank you very much for this information Craig! --
*Tim O'Connor* *Sterling, Massachusetts*
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Re: Gould/Tichy Tank Car (was Re: [RealSTMFC] OMI 1930-built double dome tank car)
Richard Townsend
OTOH, the Tichy tank car, IMHO, is a very good approximation of the many Sinclair 4-course tank cars. Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR
-----Original Message-----
From: Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...> To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> Sent: Tue, Nov 5, 2019 10:31 am Subject: Gould/Tichy Tank Car (was Re: [RealSTMFC] OMI 1930-built double dome tank car) Tim O'Connor wrote:
"Many people hate Tichy tank cars because they're not right. I love them because they are among the finest examples of styrene freight car kit design."
"Hate" isn't quite right...more like "bitterly disappointed".
Richard Hendrickson wrote in post #48856 dated 12/15/2005:
"More than one prototype researcher, on learning through the grapevine that Gould was in the process of developing a tank car model, offered assistance and was rebuffed. Bill Gould told me personally that the identity of the prototype was a secret but that he had all the prototype information he needed (and, by implication, would I please go away and stop bothering him). Egged on by Bob Hundman, he thought the drawings were all he needed and neither Gould nor Hundman realized until after the model was completed that there was no prototype for it."
In this case, it wasn't the fact that we were still learning about the prototype, but more obstinate and willful disregarding of the facts.
Ben Hom
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Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] OMI 1930-built double dome tank car
Gatwood, Elden J SAD
To add;
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I think we also take for gospel the belief that another's opinion is more than that; it is gospel. Ehhhh, not so much. I was told many, many things as gospel, on PRR freight cars, while I was doing the research, that turned out to be untrue. There are still people I know who swear by stories or "facts", that are not factual. NO ONE knows the entire picture on freight cars. NO ONE. There were certainly more tank cars produced than anyone knows of, for which no photos exist, and variations were rife. I continue to find photos of cars I have never seen before (see attached). No one has ever done the research on the CISX fleet, I know of. And I've had people tell me their fleet did not contain cars like these. Really? Then what are we looking at in this pic? And what is that car attached to 507? "It didn't exist". And, both Greg and I saw that tank car in SoCentral LA that was the living embodiment of the large-dome Tichy car, and I stand by its use because I saw it. And it IS a great freight car kit, too! Elden Gatwood
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From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2019 1:00 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] OMI 1930-built double dome tank car And Overland was working in a time period when we were ALL learning about the incredible diversity of freight cars, led by modelers like Hendrickson and Nehrich and many others who sparked the whole RPM movement. So naturally Overland (and the other importers) made a lot of "mistakes" (I can think of some real howlers from Precision Scale) and often didn't reveal very much about the prototypes for their models (if indeed there was one). It was an 'era' of the model industry, and that time has passed at least for hand made brass models. I take it with a grain of salt. An interesting looking, well made brass tank car that is realistically (if not "accurately") painted and lettered is always welcome in a train of mine... Many people hate Tichy tank cars because they're not right. I love them because they are among the finest examples of styrene freight car kit design. Tim O'Connor On 11/4/2019 6:47 PM, WILLIAM PARDIE wrote: Overland produced many fine pieces of rolling stock many of which I am proud to have in my collection. Some of their tank cars gave me reason to question them. They produced a three dome model which years ago I finished as a ULTX car. I was pleased with the model until several years ago when I purchased a Tangent three dome car. The Tangent car looked like an N scale model next to the Overland car. I found some drawings in Mailine Modeler which were smaller than the Overland car. I also had a problem with their 10,000 gallon car which had a rather large platform on each end of the car. Searched and searched but none found a prototype photo of this car. Again Mainline modeler had a drawing that exactly matched the Overland car. Possibly Overland used this drawing in producing the car. My only other disappointment was a Texas & Pacific caboose which was 6' too short. This car was replaced with a Hallmark model that was correct. These disappointments are avery small percentage of the many fine models that they produced. I recently rounded out my collection with the purchase of an Overland E-1 diesel originally done for the City Of San Francisco. Overland also produced the version that SP converted to the Daylight scheme with the big number boards. Very pleased with this model. Bill Pardie Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Tony Thompson <tony@signaturepress.com> <mailto:tony@signaturepress.com> Date: 11/4/19 1:20 PM (GMT-10:00) To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] OMI 1930-built double dome tank car Bruce Smith wrote: I was quoting the man… I can find no subsequent change of that sentiment, and it is clear from Richard’s comments that he was not involved in the design of this car. You are right that Richard had nothing to do with model design and was less than happy about what eventually came from OMI. At one point he pulled out his prints of all the photos he had sent to OMI. I had a few of those cars, and he had others, which we then looked at. I don't have any doubts of his connection as at least a source of info for OMI. Tony Thompson tony@signaturepress.com <mailto:tony@signaturepress.com> -- Tim O'Connor Sterling, Massachusetts
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Gould/Tichy Tank Car (was Re: [RealSTMFC] OMI 1930-built double dome tank car)
Benjamin Hom
Tim O'Connor wrote: "Many people hate Tichy tank cars because they're not right. I love them because they are among the finest examples of styrene freight car kit design." "Hate" isn't quite right...more like "bitterly disappointed". Richard Hendrickson wrote in post #48856 dated 12/15/2005: "More than one prototype researcher, on learning through the grapevine that Gould was in the process of developing a tank car model, offered assistance and was rebuffed. Bill Gould told me personally that the identity of the prototype was a secret but that he had all the prototype information he needed (and, by implication, would I please go away and stop bothering him). Egged on by Bob Hundman, he thought the drawings were all he needed and neither Gould nor Hundman realized until after the model was completed that there was no prototype for it." In this case, it wasn't the fact that we were still learning about the prototype, but more obstinate and willful disregarding of the facts. Ben Hom
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Re: OMI 1930-built GATC 10,000 Gal double dome tank car
Fred Jansz
Thank you very much for this information Craig!
The puzzle is nearing completion. If only I could find out what was stecilled on those domes! Resumé: these 1930-built, 10,000 Gallon insulated double dome cars were in service as NIPX #6, 7 & 8 for the North Indiana Public Service plant in Michigan City, Indiana. They were already out of the ORER in 1936. #8 was possibly the only only surviver (the other 2 possibly went back into the GATX pool) at the NIPCO plant as 'captive car' and was photographed there by Arnt Gerritsen. Who also made drawings of which Overland made a model in ca. 1991. Pity they didn't issue a painted & letterd version, otherwise it would have been on the BT files as sample for mine. Now the real challenge is to find the original Arnt Gerritsen picture of NIPX 8, so I can make some decals for it. In my closets this car is a sample of a lost car, far away from home in 1950 in the Feather River Canyon. To return home after decades, just in time for Arnt to take pictures of it around 1988. I understand from Jeff Lemke the OMI model is from 1991. cheers, Fred Jansz
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Re: OMI 1930-built double dome tank car
Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
On 11/5/2019 9:59 AM, Tim O'Connor
wrote:
I love them because they are among the finest examples of styrene freight car kit Yes! -- Jon Miller For me time stopped in 1941 Digitrax Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User SPROG User NMRA Life member #2623 Member SFRH&MS
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Re: OMI 1930-built double dome tank car
And Overland was working in a time period when we were ALL learning about the incredible diversity of freight cars, led by modelers like Hendrickson and Nehrich and many others who sparked the whole RPM movement. So naturally Overland (and the other importers) made a lot of "mistakes" (I can think of some real howlers from Precision Scale) and often didn't reveal very much about the prototypes for their models (if indeed there was one). It was an 'era' of the model industry, and that time has passed at least for hand made brass models. I take it with a grain of salt. An interesting looking, well made brass tank car that is realistically (if not "accurately") painted and lettered is always welcome in a train of mine... Many people hate Tichy tank cars because they're not right. I love them because they are among the finest examples of styrene freight car kit design. Tim O'Connor
On 11/4/2019 6:47 PM, WILLIAM PARDIE wrote:
--
Tim O'Connor Sterling, Massachusetts
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Re: PM Box loading with ground corn cobs.
al.kresse <water.kresse@...>
Yep! Any luck making contact with Mac Beard lately? Al
On November 4, 2019 at 11:10 PM Joseph <Mstl852@...> wrote:
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Re: PM Box loading with ground corn cobs.
Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
On 11/5/2019 7:13 AM, james murrie
via Groups.Io wrote:
Somewhere I have a 1943 or 1944 I also remember that in
the late 40s my relatives in SD used corn cobs for fuel in the
kitchen stove. Don't know if they were delivered or collected
from the farm. -- Jon Miller For me time stopped in 1941 Digitrax Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User SPROG User NMRA Life member #2623 Member SFRH&MS
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Re: PM Box loading with ground corn cobs.
james murrie
Somewhere I have a 1943 or 1944 Illinois license plate that my father told me was made from corn cobs to save steel. It's definitely some kind of "wood" that was then painted and lettered.
Jim Murrie
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Re: PM Box loading with ground corn cobs.
Corn cobs were also used for grinding and polishing things like poker chips. Fenton
On Mon, Nov 4, 2019 at 11:02 PM Matt Smith <flyn96@...> wrote: Doug, --
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Re: Boxcar With Roof Hatches
Marty McGuirk
Add Central Vermont to the list.
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On Nov 2, 2019, at 11:22 PM, Jim Gates via Groups.Io <jim.gates@...> wrote:
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Re: OMI 1930-built GATC 10,000 Gal double dome tank car
Craig Wilson
Tom Marsh lived in downstate Indiana. However his draftsman, Arnt Gerritsen, lived near Valparaiso in northwest Indiana. He drew many, many projects that got produced as Overland Models and some that didn't. Arnt had a fondness for the out-of-the-ordinary and would venture out to measure and photograph when he found one. This particular car resided at the NIPCO plant in Michigan City Indiana. It was a "captive car" there and no one that Arnt talked to could tell him how long it had been there or what its previously life had been. Arnt considered it a one-of-kind-prototype, which it may indeed be. Arnt drew projects that interested him on his own time and filed the drawings away. Because OMI was his employer, Tom Marsh had first right of refusal on these and this tank car may have caught Tom's eye and he decided to built it. Another one of these "private efforts" resulted in the Speedwitch AA Single Sheath boxcar kit. The prototype cars were all retired in 1962-63 and dismantled, save for couple door-and-a-half cars what went into MofW service. Then a fully intact single door car was discovered sitting in the DPW yard in Cadillac Michigan and being used as a storage shed. Arnt and I got permission to go measure and photograph it. Arnt created a beautiful set of scale drawings which went in the drawer until Ted Culotta saw them and borrowed the drawings for the Speedwitch model. Craig Wilson
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Re: PM Box loading with ground corn cobs.
Joseph
Sorry, meant to be off list. Time for me to get some shut eye Joe Binish
On Mon, Nov 4, 2019 at 10:10 PM Joseph via Groups.Io <Mstl852=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
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Re: PM Box loading with ground corn cobs.
Joseph
Think of the fun we will have!!
On Mon, Nov 4, 2019 at 10:08 PM sherman4863 via Groups.Io <sherman4863=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote: The flour mill in Franklin, MN was used in the 50's, after it quit making flour, to grind cobs and shipped in boxcars to Shakopee where it was bagged and sold for floor dry. Sam Sherman
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Re: PM Box loading with ground corn cobs.
sherman4863
The flour mill in Franklin, MN was used in the 50's, after it quit making flour, to grind cobs and shipped in boxcars to Shakopee where it was bagged and sold for floor dry. Sam Sherman
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Re: PM Box loading with ground corn cobs.
Matt Smith
Doug,
If you zoom in the resolution is sufficient to show that the truck is full of cobs. Corn shellers are larger and more mechanically complicated than the grinder/blower on the back of this truck. Matt Smith Bloomington, IL
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Re: OMI 1930-built GATC 10,000 Gal double dome tank car
spsalso
There's no NIPX reporting marks in January 1939 ORER.
Ed Edward Sutorik
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Re: PM Box loading with ground corn cobs.
Lloyd Keyser
The Quaker Oats plant in Cedar Rapids, IA in the 40's into the 60's consumed six to eight car loads of cobs a day and processed them obtaining a chemical named Furfural. The cob residue, a very fine powder, was blown into IC covered hoppers for delivery for use in plastics. The covered hoppers were converted in company shops in 1950 and 51, numbers 81750-81752, by modifying three bay coal hoppers. The sides were increased in height and a roof added containing a small vent at the diagonal corners of the roof. In the center of the increased height was a two piece door which opened and a large plate secured with dogs. A flexible pipe was attached to blow the fine power into each end of the car. The hopper doors were modified for unloading the powder. As farming technology improved the corn pickers shelled the corn as it was picked dropping the cobs on the ground along with the stocks and plowed under for next years planting. As the availability of cobs declined the processed was modified to using oat hulls which was the byproduct of making cereal. I am modeling the loading platform and kit bashing two hoppers for loading. I have the IC diagram sheet which gives enough detail to accomplish this. What I lack is a good side view for creating the decals. I have been unsuccessful in obtaining this picture. They are not in the IC archives. Can anyone help? Lloyd Keyser
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Re: OMI 1930-built GATC 10,000 Gal double dome tank car
al_brown03
The 1955 tariff 300-H lists *no* 10,000-gallon twin-compartment cars with equal-sized compartments and 4.5% domes.
AL B.
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