Date   
Re: TH&B USRA 40-ton boxcar

radiodial868
 

Mel may not have had one, but here's mine I did last year from a Westerfield kit as NWP #1957. Since I model 1939 had to leave off the cool NWP herald and roadname (shown here from Andrew's site). Depending on your year I would def go with NWP.
Speaking of USRA DS, since model 1939, I have built a bunch, including both F&C and Westerfield. I have just embarked on a serous effort to build an additional 6 more using Ertl models. I'm not sure of the heritage of the tooling for these, but sure looks Gould'ish (Tichy)?  The trucks are wrong, but easy swap to Tichy Andrews.  All of the paint schemes and lettering are laughable. They serve as a good place to start as details are good with basic underframe brake details and separately applied grabs. Add some additional brake detail, uncoupling levers of your prototype (rotary or Carmer), a weight inside, and then paint & decals.
Will post all six for next week's "Workbench Thursday".
RJ Dial
Burlingame, CA

Re: From Lake States Archives photo

Dennis Storzek
 

On Fri, Nov 8, 2019 at 07:14 AM, Bob Webber wrote:
This is the closest I found to that car (in the photo):
Steel End 500 1920 Lot 5209 CCM Co. Gondola

HB-9682-36-72
Could be... That lot of Clarkson Coal Mining cars were built as composite cars (steel frame, wood sheathing). The entire lot of 500 cars went to the Soo Line in 1927, who rebuilt them with nine panel steel sides in 1951. The Soo Line freightcar book by Soroos states "...were rebuilt in 1951 with fixed ends as well as steel sides and floor." The fixed end comment makes no sense as they were obviously built with fixed ends, and the ends don't show in the picture of the rebuilt car, so can't tell if the ends were replaced or not. Either way, after spending the money to rebuild the cars in 1951, I don't see the Soo selling them off before the end of our period of interest, but I don't have a disposition date. The book states 94 still on the roster in 1961, so some may have escaped into continued service for in-plant moves.  The Soo number series was 63801-64799, (odd).

Dennis Storzek

Re: TH&B USRA 40-ton boxcar

James E Kubanick
 

As usual, a great looking build, Bill! Thanks for sharing and the inspiration.

Jim Kubanick
Morgantown WV

On Friday, November 8, 2019, 8:19:45 AM EST, Kemal Mumcu via Groups.Io <kemal_mumcu@...> wrote:


Looking good Bill. Can't wait to see it with paint and decals. I'll copy your notes for when I build one of mine. I happen to live a stone's throw from the shop where these were originally rebuilt so it seems fitting I should have a model in my collection.

Note: these cars were purchased in 1941 and were rebuilt when they came on the property. The brakes were updated starting 1943 and weren't finished till around 1949 I think.

Colin Meikle

Re: From Lake States Archives photo

Bob Webber
 

This is the closest I found to that car (in the photo):
Steel End 500 1920 Lot 5209 CCM Co. Gondola

HB-9682-36-72

(There are others - but not where I can reach them at the moment)

At 08:02 AM 11/8/2019, Dennis Storzek wrote:
On Fri, Nov 8, 2019 at 01:50 AM, Dan Smith wrote:
<https://www.lakestatesarchive.org/Ed-Wilkommen-Collection/Freight-Cars/i-FBD47MC/A>https://www.lakestatesarchive.org/Ed-Wilkommen-Collection/Freight-Cars/i-FBD47MC/A
This appears to be a Haskell & Barker proprietary end. Only used on a few series of cars, all built by H&B, the H&B drawing collection in the Pullman Library of the Illinois Railway Museum contains more drawings of the geometry of the pressings than was typical of ends purchased from other vendors. I suspect the spiral pattern of the pressed rib was intended to circumvent the Murphy end patent that claimed "tapered ribs."
Dennis Storzek
Bob Webber
Bob Webber

Re: From Lake States Archives photo

Bob Webber
 

Yeah - I think that I've scanned a couple dozen of these in the last 3 weeks (scanning all H&B drawings). There's a few variants. There's this oval spiral, a more circular spiral (for house cars), a less rounded, rectangular spiral and a few others.

C&H is not likely the original owner. I think CI&W had gons like this. I haven't been paying too much attention to who what cars were made for - we do add the Lot information into the metadata when available, but...when the drawings/files are large, you can't see both the description and the Lot information at once as they are at the bottom and top, respectively, of a 3' wide image. (usually)

Were anyone interested we can look, but it isn't something that is easy. Attempting to put too much information, esp. that which isn't on the data block is far too time consuming (when you have a few more drawings to process).

At 08:02 AM 11/8/2019, Dennis Storzek wrote:
On Fri, Nov 8, 2019 at 01:50 AM, Dan Smith wrote:
<https://www.lakestatesarchive.org/Ed-Wilkommen-Collection/Freight-Cars/i-FBD47MC/A>https://www.lakestatesarchive.org/Ed-Wilkommen-Collection/Freight-Cars/i-FBD47MC/A

This appears to be a Haskell & Barker proprietary end. Only used on a few series of cars, all built by H&B, the H&B drawing collection in the Pullman Library of the Illinois Railway Museum contains more drawings of the geometry of the pressings than was typical of ends purchased from other vendors. I suspect the spiral pattern of the pressed rib was intended to circumvent the Murphy end patent that claimed "tapered ribs."

Dennis Storzek
Bob Webber

Re: From Lake States Archives photo

Dennis Storzek
 

On Fri, Nov 8, 2019 at 01:50 AM, Dan Smith wrote:
https://www.lakestatesarchive.org/Ed-Wilkommen-Collection/Freight-Cars/i-FBD47MC/A
This appears to be a Haskell & Barker proprietary end. Only used on a few series of cars, all built by H&B, the H&B drawing collection in the Pullman Library of the Illinois Railway Museum contains more drawings of the geometry of the pressings than was typical of ends purchased from other vendors. I suspect the spiral pattern of the pressed rib was intended to circumvent the Murphy end patent that claimed "tapered ribs."

Dennis Storzek

Re: New images on Steamtown site today

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Thanks for sharing, Brian! Fabulous photos.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Rochon
Sent: Friday, November 8, 2019 7:51 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] New images on Steamtown site today

The first image shows the B end of PRR box car 35920 including great view of Carmer cut lever.



Blockedhttp://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-11-08-19/X7985.jpg



The second image shows B end of SDRX tank car 4842 but notice the flat car and transformer load in the background at left.



Blockedhttp://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-11-08-19/X7983.jpg



Brian Rochon

Re: TH&B USRA 40-ton boxcar

Kemal Mumcu
 

Looking good Bill. Can't wait to see it with paint and decals. I'll copy your notes for when I build one of mine. I happen to live a stone's throw from the shop where these were originally rebuilt so it seems fitting I should have a model in my collection.

Note: these cars were purchased in 1941 and were rebuilt when they came on the property. The brakes were updated starting 1943 and weren't finished till around 1949 I think.

Colin Meikle

Re: New images on Steamtown site today

Bruce Smith
 

That transformer load off behind SDRX 4842 is pretty cool too!  

PRR 35920 is class X25.

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, Al


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Brian Rochon <berochon@...>
Sent: Friday, November 8, 2019 6:51 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] New images on Steamtown site today
 

The first image shows the B end of PRR box car 35920 including great view of Carmer cut lever.

 

http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-11-08-19/X7985.jpg

 

The second image shows B end of SDRX tank car 4842 but notice the flat car and transformer load in the background  at left.

 

http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-11-08-19/X7983.jpg

 

Brian Rochon

New images on Steamtown site today

Brian Rochon
 

The first image shows the B end of PRR box car 35920 including great view of Carmer cut lever.

 

http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-11-08-19/X7985.jpg

 

The second image shows B end of SDRX tank car 4842 but notice the flat car and transformer load in the background  at left.

 

http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-11-08-19/X7983.jpg

 

Brian Rochon

Upgrading an Accurail shorty

Eric Hansmann
 

A few details and decals can upgrade an Accurail 36-foot boxcar kit. It's the latest post on my DesignBuildOp blog.



Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN


Re: From Lake States Archives photo

Bill Welch
 

Several of us who attended Chicagoland 2019 were gifted pairs of these ends by a friend. I plan to use them with InterMountain composite gondola kit to make a Monon model. Another reason to come to RPMs because there are Modeling Undergrounds around at such gatherings.

Bill Welch

From Lake States Archives photo

 

Re: TH&B USRA 40-ton box

mel perry
 

bill: 
it was a suggestion
:-)
mel perry

On Thu, Nov 7, 2019, 6:31 PM Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:
On Thu, Nov 7, 2019 at 07:36 PM, mel perry wrote:
bill:
the NWP comes to mind
mel perry
Look forward to seeing your model Mel.
Bill Welch
 
 
 

Re: TH&B USRA 40-ton boxcar

Bill Welch
 

On Thu, Nov 7, 2019 at 07:36 PM, mel perry wrote:
bill:
the NWP comes to mind
mel perry
Look forward to seeing your model Mel.
Bill Welch
 
 
 

Re: TH&B USRA 40-ton boxcar

mel perry
 

bill:
the NWP comes to mind
mel perry

On Thu, Nov 7, 2019, 3:18 PM Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:

I am very interested in the history of the Forty-Foot boxcar, the car type that composed the bulk of America’s freight car fleet from at least the early 1920’s into the 1950’s and one of my goals is to model every example of the 40-foot types in-service during my modeling date of October 1955. To date my only model of a USRA 40-ton Double Sheathed boxcar has been an M&StL model, which technically I think were gone from The Louie’s roster by 1953. I have always planned to build at least two more but had not settled on which ones. I had Westy kits for both CB&Q and GN but since buying these years ago I have built several models of cars for both these roads and found myself bored by the prospect of building two more models to represent them. Many of the 40-ton cars were rebuilt into steel sheathed cars so my choices were somewhat limited but I found two candidates that appealed to me—SP&S and TH&B.

I remembered when building the M&StL model that the sides and ends were built around the underframe. I don’t like this approach so I assembled the sides and ends into a rectangle and then using one of Westy’s new roof frames I assembled the roof, widening it slightly with styrene shim because I have noticed these prototypes had fascia boards along the top of the sides and the edges of the roof lapped over these fascia trim pieces. Further the sheet metal on the roof is bent over the roof edge and covers some of the fascia boards and I intended to model these two details. The side view photo shows the effect.

These TH&B cars were ex-New York Central cars rebuilt in the TH&B shops in 1943 to replace or supplement the TH&B’s aging fleet of Dominion 36-foot boxcars. In the rebuilding the shops added sort of a base for the right end grabs that form the ladder. I used .020 x .020 styrene for these. They also changed the doors with what I now think were secondhand doors from 50-ton USRA 50-ton cars (source unknown but maybe NYC). I gritted my teeth as I cut off the existing door supports. Then I clinched my jaw as I carved off the horizontal metal steel strap. Clinching my jaw worked as I managed not to gouge the door and did a decent job re-scribing where I removed the brace. I made new “L” section braces by first using CA to glue a narrow strip of 0.005 styrene in place. After this had cured I took another section of 0.005 styrene and with it butted on edge against the section already in place secured with careful applications of Tamiya Extra Thin glue. Then I added a thin bead of CA on the lower of this assembly. The rivets on the “L” section brace are harvested from an Athearn boxcar. I harvested the lower door rollers from Tichy’s USRA doors, thinning them slightly before using CA to secure them in place.

I am not sure how many 40-ton USRA boxcars had metal flashing applied above the door track at some point but both the SP&S and TH&B did and so I used 0.005 sheet styrene cut into strips to make these, griping them between two straight edges to bend them. One TH&B photo I had from Jack Parker’s Photo Collection shows some interesting tabs along the lower edge so I added these using more .005-styrene (very curious what the thinking was for adding these tabs).

The TH&B applied Ajax powered handbrakes. I am waiting to fix the brake wheel in place until I build a new wood Running Board since it will be easier to fit the end supports in place without the wheel in the way. I scratch built the Placard Boards. Use this link to access and download more photos of the model:    

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1nXjhL_mISYjwjTKeucYRITye2tcECgR-

Bill Welch
PS: Unless Rapido changes the door as I have, their model will be wrong.

Attachments:

TH&B USRA 40-ton boxcar

Bill Welch
 

I am very interested in the history of the Forty-Foot boxcar, the car type that composed the bulk of America’s freight car fleet from at least the early 1920’s into the 1950’s and one of my goals is to model every example of the 40-foot types in-service during my modeling date of October 1955. To date my only model of a USRA 40-ton Double Sheathed boxcar has been an M&StL model, which technically I think were gone from The Louie’s roster by 1953. I have always planned to build at least two more but had not settled on which ones. I had Westy kits for both CB&Q and GN but since buying these years ago I have built several models of cars for both these roads and found myself bored by the prospect of building two more models to represent them. Many of the 40-ton cars were rebuilt into steel sheathed cars so my choices were somewhat limited but I found two candidates that appealed to me—SP&S and TH&B.

I remembered when building the M&StL model that the sides and ends were built around the underframe. I don’t like this approach so I assembled the sides and ends into a rectangle and then using one of Westy’s new roof frames I assembled the roof, widening it slightly with styrene shim because I have noticed these prototypes had fascia boards along the top of the sides and the edges of the roof lapped over these fascia trim pieces. Further the sheet metal on the roof is bent over the roof edge and covers some of the fascia boards and I intended to model these two details. The side view photo shows the effect.

These TH&B cars were ex-New York Central cars rebuilt in the TH&B shops in 1943 to replace or supplement the TH&B’s aging fleet of Dominion 36-foot boxcars. In the rebuilding the shops added sort of a base for the right end grabs that form the ladder. I used .020 x .020 styrene for these. They also changed the doors with what I now think were secondhand doors from 50-ton USRA 50-ton cars (source unknown but maybe NYC). I gritted my teeth as I cut off the existing door supports. Then I clinched my jaw as I carved off the horizontal metal steel strap. Clinching my jaw worked as I managed not to gouge the door and did a decent job re-scribing where I removed the brace. I made new “L” section braces by first using CA to glue a narrow strip of 0.005 styrene in place. After this had cured I took another section of 0.005 styrene and with it butted on edge against the section already in place secured with careful applications of Tamiya Extra Thin glue. Then I added a thin bead of CA on the lower of this assembly. The rivets on the “L” section brace are harvested from an Athearn boxcar. I harvested the lower door rollers from Tichy’s USRA doors, thinning them slightly before using CA to secure them in place.

I am not sure how many 40-ton USRA boxcars had metal flashing applied above the door track at some point but both the SP&S and TH&B did and so I used 0.005 sheet styrene cut into strips to make these, griping them between two straight edges to bend them. One TH&B photo I had from Jack Parker’s Photo Collection shows some interesting tabs along the lower edge so I added these using more .005-styrene (very curious what the thinking was for adding these tabs).

The TH&B applied Ajax powered handbrakes. I am waiting to fix the brake wheel in place until I build a new wood Running Board since it will be easier to fit the end supports in place without the wheel in the way. I scratch built the Placard Boards. Use this link to access and download more photos of the model:    

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1nXjhL_mISYjwjTKeucYRITye2tcECgR-

Bill Welch
PS: Unless Rapido changes the door as I have, their model will be wrong.

Re: OMI 1930-built GATC 10,000 Gal double dome tank car

Fred Jansz
 

Great! Thanks, John Barry.
cheers
Fred Jansz

Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] L. C. L. Corporation (Revised)

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Thanks, Jim! Nice pic!

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Thursday, November 7, 2019 2:35 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] L. C. L. Corporation (Revised)

On 11/7/2019 12:29 PM, Jim Mischke wrote:

In an attempt to be competitive, around 1929, B&O equipped a small
number of O-27 subclass gondolas for LCL merchandise containers for
overnight Pittsburgh - New York merchandise service.   Per B&O memo,
this investment was a "complete waste of money" and the equipment was
removed from service in 1940.   Gondolas were converted back to
original configuration, and containers returned to LCL Corporation.

Between their mostly captive on-line service, overnight runs, and
inactivity, these were ....

-  seldom photographed,
-  not known to go off-line,
-  and laid about at limited locations much of the time,

 ... their modeling possibilities are distressingly narrow.


This story concerns LCL merchandise containers leased from LCL
Corporation.   In contrast, B&O equipped hundreds of gondolas for LCL
bulk containers built by Youngstown Steel for years in service, mainly
hauling dolomite for steelmaking, based around Brunswick Maryland and
headed for eastern steel mills.   LCL Corporation was not involved.

--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*

Re: covered hopper grays take 2

Tim O'Connor
 

It's not muddy, but the sunlight (thousands of candle power) versus interior lights makes a
huge difference in the color we perceive. I took photos of a box car I painted a fairly dark
"tuscan oxide red" under bright lights and I was amazed how the car appeared under those
conditions - not at all how it appears when viewing it with normal indoor lighting.

On 11/7/2019 12:57 PM, Jim Mischke wrote:

I'd like to clarify or muddy the B&O gray on covered hoppers.

I have a B&O gray paint chip from the Mt. Clare drift card, and another intrepid B&O society member harvested a paint chip from a prototype N-43 PS-2 covered hopper from a spot where the sun don't shine.   They matched, but we were alarmed that this authentic B&O gray was so dark.   Unacceptable on a B&O model in a dim basement.

When the B&OHS sponsored a Kadee B&O PS-2 covered hopper project (600 cars, long sold out, no web images found today), I made a conscious decision to specify one grade of gray lighter.   Everybody loved it.  Even more arbitrary, Kadee only produces their gray covered hoppers in three shades: light, medium and dark, no matter what anybody's prototype gray paint chip says.   Spring Mills Valley produced their B&O N-34 wagontop covered hopper with its Kadee B&O PS-2 model predecessor in mind.   Both products are effective and popular.  Not the B&O gray.

I can hop and stomp around about accurate railroad colors with the best of them.  Yet there are times when an color offset is called for, in light of basement illumination, pun intended. We seek a believable illusion, sometimes prototype colors fall short.   Black, white, and gray are particularly vulnerable to ambient light and scale effects.


Jim Mischke
a B&O freight car go-to guy
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*