Date   

Re: Tri-Sorb snubbers on reefers

np328
 

        Of the trip frequencies, I recently noted a reefer (in other paperwork) that made a partial unloading, then a second stop where it was fully unloaded. This would certainly slow down mileage covered. I mention this because I am not aware of anyone who has mention modeling partial unloading of a reefer.  
      
         I have no information on how common this was. I am aware that some reefers traveled branchlines and made multiple stops however reefers used this way (at least on the NP) were home road reefers in captive service. 

         Can someone explain the term "detentions" in connection with reefer travel.  Tony, I looked through the index on the PFE book however not there.  I'll post in another thread some paperwork where the term detention is used several times.                                                                                                                             Jim Dick 


Re: Hormel Meat Reefer traffic was Tri-Sorb snubbers on reefers

Tim O'Connor
 


Yawn. It's a ridiculous argument. The PRR served the industrial heartland and it was
an enormous and important corporation. It was also one of the many that suffered from
the postwar migration to the west and south - you can almost watch the ton-miles going
from the PRR to the SP for much of the postwar period. Weird routings existed because
railroads were COMPETITIVE (thanks to the ICC and tariff rules) and those routings were
not necessarily faster, shorter, or better. You never heard of the traffic manager
being taken out to eat by the railroads' sales reps? Business ain't charity, but it
also isn't entirely rational.




On 11/12/2019 4:54 PM, Donald B. Valentine via Groups.Io wrote:
 Hi Tony,

     The short answer is that if the Pennsy had been in business, instead of pretending to be, the Alphabet Route
would not have been. The Erie was a hell of a railroad and I'm sorry it's gone. The time per ton mile always
seemed to be excellent and given the profile of their route from eastern Ohio further east one has to give them
credit for the excellent service they provided. If you look at those figure again It is not only the Erie that had
volume, it was the roads between them andthe four northern New England states. This is why the B&M numbers
were so much higher than the Penny's New Haven partner as well. Most of what the New Haven did carry came
via Maybrook, the Erie's New Haven connection, judging by most photos I've seen, rather then via car floats from
the Pennsy at Greenville, NJ. I know Bruce and others disagree with but to me the Pennsy was little more than
its reporting marks, all PR but not much service. I wish the figures included the Canadian roads as the CPR
carried a fair amount of meat traffic into Northern New England as well but I have no figures for the volume.

My best, Don Valentine


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Hormel Meat Reefer traffic was Tri-Sorb snubbers on reefers

Donald B. Valentine
 

 Hi Tony,

     The short answer is that if the Pennsy had been in business, instead of pretending to be, the Alphabet Route
would not have been. The Erie was a hell of a railroad and I'm sorry it's gone. The time per ton mile always
seemed to be excellent and given the profile of their route from eastern Ohio further east one has to give them
credit for the excellent service they provided. If you look at those figure again It is not only the Erie that had
volume, it was the roads between them andthe four northern New England states. This is why the B&M numbers
were so much higher than the Penny's New Haven partner as well. Most of what the New Haven did carry came
via Maybrook, the Erie's New Haven connection, judging by most photos I've seen, rather then via car floats from
the Pennsy at Greenville, NJ. I know Bruce and others disagree with but to me the Pennsy was little more than
its reporting marks, all PR but not much service. I wish the figures included the Canadian roads as the CPR
carried a fair amount of meat traffic into Northern New England as well but I have no figures for the volume.

My best, Don Valentine


Re: How's Tichy doing currently, decal thickness and all?

Donald B. Valentine
 

Decals are only as good as the film they are printed on, Roger, and thhat seems to be the trouble we
continually hear about Tichy decals. From whAT I hear elsewere the only place one can purchase good
decal sheets lately are in England. Their decal pricing is also better as is that from Italy. The old
expression is the consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds but if the film is not of consistent and
constant quality no one is going to be successful in the decal field.

Just another point of view, Don Valentine


Re: Square brake staffs, was New images on Steamtown site today

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

Thanks Richard!  When combined with a ree other photos that I have I think I can do a reasonable approximation.   Just wish I didn't have to.

Bill Pardie




Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: "Richard Townsend via Groups.Io" <richtownsend@...>
Date: 11/12/19 10:13 AM (GMT-10:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Square brake staffs, was New images on Steamtown site today


Here's a photo of a USAX flat car's brake wheel and square staff I took at the Nat"l Transportation Museum outside St. Louis.

IMG_1511 (1).JPG


Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Brent Greer <studegator@...>
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Tue, Nov 12, 2019 11:01 am
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Square brake staffs, was New images on Steamtown site today

I visited an antique dealer in Orlando this past weekend and happened to spot these so I took some photos for the group. Unfortunately there were no manufacturers markings on them that I could see.

Brent

________________________________
Dr. J. Brent Greer


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] OMI 1930-built double dome tank car

Kemal Mumcu
 

Scale wheels are useful when constructing models. I have some P87 wheelsets and I use them to visualize truck ride height. It's easier to see if the model needs raising or lowering. Colin Meikle


Re: Square brake staffs, was New images on Steamtown site today

Richard Townsend
 


Here's a photo of a USAX flat car's brake wheel and square staff I took at the Nat"l Transportation Museum outside St. Louis.



Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Brent Greer <studegator@...>
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Tue, Nov 12, 2019 11:01 am
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Square brake staffs, was New images on Steamtown site today

I visited an antique dealer in Orlando this past weekend and happened to spot these so I took some photos for the group. Unfortunately there were no manufacturers markings on them that I could see.

Brent

________________________________
Dr. J. Brent Greer


Re: How's Tichy doing currently, decal thickness and all?

Jake Schaible
 

As an N Scale guy, getting a chuckle to see HO guys chatter about decal thickness.  Welcome to our world!  

The topic of the thickness of Tichy decals comes up from time to time over on TheRailWire.net.  If I was to summarize it?  I'd say, what is clear is that thickness is:

a) somewhat related to the specs of the rig, paper and ink used,

b) somewhat related to the specific image and color sought to reproduce, and

c) somewhat related to communication between the printer and the client.   

So it would be wrong to make a general statement of "Tichy's decals are too thick".  Sure, for some decals, of some images, on some settings, on some surfaces, Tichy might not be able to produce what you'd like.   For us N scale guy, we can say that about nearly all decals.  

But for the sake of compassion, I will share some sample data posted back in 2017 on TRW comparing thickness of Tichy's inkjet decals to say the Microscale screen printed water slides looking at very comparable black ink datablock on new PFE decal sets:

Using my ol' Starrett Vernier micrometer caliper, I have The Tichy backer paper, adhesive and carrier film at a dead 0.0090" and over the datablock, a 0.0100".  So a black only ink height is just 0.001"

The Microscale set, the backer paper to carrier is 0.0065", over data block, 0.0071".  So 0.0006.... yes, the Tichy's (more legible) ink is 0.0004" thicker than the Microscales.  But it's not ink build up that draws my eye.

The Tichy backer paper / adhesive & carrier, is also clearly thicker.  Some of this may be irrelevant as it could be that Tichy uses a thicker backer, but it could be a thicker carrier which might account for issue of curl.  And if this is a real issue, it may be fixable for Don to switch to a finer stock on which to print. 

Obvious, other colors and multilayer prints may be thicker.  And your results may vary.  

Off topic:  All this leaves me thinking the scale  model decal market might still benefit from new technology - one that can yield smaller / finer fonts at higher resolution, and not dependent on the limitation of ink jet or silk screen.  Kind of intrigued by the advances in intaglio microprinting and advanced inks, and wonder if such can be applied to develop waterslide decals ... but I'm certainly no expert here!


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] OMI 1930-built double dome tank car

vapeurchapelon
 

They originally came with "ordinary" .110 wheels. I am not aware of any OMI model with different ones. But W&R had .88 wheels at least on several if not most of their freight car models.
Thanks for the hint to the CBC!
 
Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953
 
Gesendet: Dienstag, 12. November 2019 um 18:59 Uhr
Von: "Jon Miller" <atsfus@...>
An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] OMI 1930-built double dome tank car
On 11/12/2019 9:23 AM, vapeurchapelon wrote:
therefore would like to find some information.

    Old mind, but now seem to remember that a picture is in one of the CBCs.  Mine are all at the other house so I can't look it up.  A question, as I said in an additional post mine has .066 wheels sets.  Did they come this way (what are yours) or were they added.  Seems strange and the only brass cars I have ever seen with scale or close to scale treads.  Years ago I bought a set of scale wheels to use with contest cars.

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
SPROG User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] OMI 1930-built double dome tank car

Jon Miller
 

On 11/12/2019 9:23 AM, vapeurchapelon wrote:
therefore would like to find some information.

    Old mind, but now seem to remember that a picture is in one of the CBCs.  Mine are all at the other house so I can't look it up.  A question, as I said in an additional post mine has .066 wheels sets.  Did they come this way (what are yours) or were they added.  Seems strange and the only brass cars I have ever seen with scale or close to scale treads.  Years ago I bought a set of scale wheels to use with contest cars.

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
SPROG User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: Square brake staffs, was New images on Steamtown site today

Brent Greer
 

I visited an antique dealer in Orlando this past weekend and happened to spot these so I took some photos for the group. Unfortunately there were no manufacturers markings on them that I could see.

Brent

________________________________
Dr. J. Brent Greer


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] OMI 1930-built double dome tank car

vapeurchapelon
 

I too have one of these. Yes, 8000gals, at least OMI advertised it as that. Nonetheless maybe too large, but for itself it is a nice model (perhaps only if one doesn't know too much about tank cars) and I definitely want to have it painted and therefore would like to find some information.
 
Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953
 
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 06. November 2019 um 19:43 Uhr
Von: "Jon Miller" <atsfus@...>
An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] OMI 1930-built double dome tank car

    Since we are talking about 2 dome cars does anyone have information on this one.  Bought it off (probably) eBay years ago.  At one time I may have known but am getting forgetful.  It came, to me, with the .088 wheelsets, and all painted black.  I'm guessing 8K without doing any measurements. (brass of course)

 

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
SPROG User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: Tri-Sorb snubbers on reefers

Tony Thompson
 


On Nov 12, 2019, at 2:28 AM, Paul Woods wrote:

The figures got me thinking....nine round trips in three months is a cycle time of ten days, give or take - I can't decide if the text is saying nine round trips per car or combined total for both cars . . .

     As most freight cars averaged less than nine trips PER YEAR, these not only have to be the trips for both cars, but are still remarkable. PFE was proud that its cars averaged between ten and eleven round trips per year, higher than any other reefer owner and higher than most railroads' freight cars of any type. For these two cars to have made so many trips suggest that they were (a) short trips, and (b) probably hastened along for test purposes.

Tony Thompson




Re: Hormel Meat Reefer traffic was Tri-Sorb snubbers on reefers

Tony Thompson
 

Bruce Smith wrote:

There is a lot of data, real data (as opposed to anecdotes), that supports a high amount of reefer traffic on the PRR. The PRR was the third highest conveyor of produce in the nation,  behind SP and UP (beating AT&SF) and the number one conveyer of loaded produce refrigerator cars east of the Mississippi. 

       I am not one who disputes these facts. What I always point out, which was pointed out to me by a retired PFE executive, is that PRR had the highest perishable damage claims, PER TON MILE, of any railroad. That isn't just a lot of claims because they were a big railroad, it's a lot of claims, period. And it's the reason that PFE agents advised shippers to route on railroads OTHER THAN the PRR as far as possible.
       But as Bruce says, the PRR was not entirely avoidable throughout much of the northeast and in the biggest cities of the day, New York and Philadelphia. Empty return was not as time critical, so PRR may have had a huge share in empty mileage, as Bruce mentions.

Tony Thompson




Re: How's Tichy doing currently, decal thickness and all?

Chuck Cover
 

Group,

 

I have not used many Tichy decals but those that I have used were fine.  I recently used Don Tichy’s C&EI decals on a Sunshine Mather boxcar. 

 

I think factual information about various products is a valuable topic for this group, however, it is unfortunate that topics like this one turn out to become a bitch fest about some product or manufacturer. 

 

Chuck Cover

Santa Fe, NM


Re: How's Tichy doing currently, decal thickness and all?

Roger Huber <trainpainter@...>
 

Obviously they have some QC issues. The first ones from them must have been remnants from Jerry Glow.

I still think people should try them rather than just throw them away. Maybe what one guy thinks is too thick may be acceptable for others. Just like cars where some don't have issues with cast on grabs and ladders while others won't accept them. 

Maybe to have a reefer lettered for ABCX with thicker decals is more important than not having that car?

Opinions (like mine, too) are not gospel.

Roger Huber
Deer Creek Locomotive Works


On Tuesday, November 12, 2019, 10:14:30 AM CST, Brian Carlson via Groups.Io <prrk41361@...> wrote:


Mine were so thick they would conform to the surface. The same issue as was discussed when they first came out. I ended up cobbling several other sources. 

Brian J. Carlson 

On Nov 12, 2019, at 11:05 AM, Roger Huber via Groups.Io <trainpainter@...> wrote:


I'm sorry but I don't quite understand everyone wanting just throw them away. If you've already ordered and paid for them why not at least test them and see if they are good to use? Apparently from what I've read here and other places some sets are fine and others are too thick. If they are decals for a RR or company you thought enough of to buy for a piece of equipment then try them to see if they meet your standards? If they don't cut the mustard then they are easy to remove and THEN throw them away?

I haven't tried them yet but have purchased several different sets. Having been in the hobby for so many years I've worked with most brands and many have some unusual characteristics and all. I doubt if they can be much worse than the crap from Walthers we used for years.

Just my 2¢

Roger Huber
Deer Creek Locomotive Works


On Tuesday, November 12, 2019, 09:35:40 AM CST, Richard Townsend via Groups.Io <richtownsend@...> wrote:


I have a set. I’ll throw them away and save you the 8 bucks.



Re: How's Tichy doing currently, decal thickness and all?

Brian Carlson
 

Mine were so thick they would conform to the surface. The same issue as was discussed when they first came out. I ended up cobbling several other sources. 

Brian J. Carlson 

On Nov 12, 2019, at 11:05 AM, Roger Huber via Groups.Io <trainpainter@...> wrote:


I'm sorry but I don't quite understand everyone wanting just throw them away. If you've already ordered and paid for them why not at least test them and see if they are good to use? Apparently from what I've read here and other places some sets are fine and others are too thick. If they are decals for a RR or company you thought enough of to buy for a piece of equipment then try them to see if they meet your standards? If they don't cut the mustard then they are easy to remove and THEN throw them away?

I haven't tried them yet but have purchased several different sets. Having been in the hobby for so many years I've worked with most brands and many have some unusual characteristics and all. I doubt if they can be much worse than the crap from Walthers we used for years.

Just my 2¢

Roger Huber
Deer Creek Locomotive Works


On Tuesday, November 12, 2019, 09:35:40 AM CST, Richard Townsend via Groups.Io <richtownsend@...> wrote:


I have a set. I’ll throw them away and save you the 8 bucks.



Re: How's Tichy doing currently, decal thickness and all?

Roger Huber <trainpainter@...>
 

I'm sorry but I don't quite understand everyone wanting just throw them away. If you've already ordered and paid for them why not at least test them and see if they are good to use? Apparently from what I've read here and other places some sets are fine and others are too thick. If they are decals for a RR or company you thought enough of to buy for a piece of equipment then try them to see if they meet your standards? If they don't cut the mustard then they are easy to remove and THEN throw them away?

I haven't tried them yet but have purchased several different sets. Having been in the hobby for so many years I've worked with most brands and many have some unusual characteristics and all. I doubt if they can be much worse than the crap from Walthers we used for years.

Just my 2¢

Roger Huber
Deer Creek Locomotive Works


On Tuesday, November 12, 2019, 09:35:40 AM CST, Richard Townsend via Groups.Io <richtownsend@...> wrote:


I have a set. I’ll throw them away and save you the 8 bucks.



Re: NP Refrigerators

npin53
 

That is correct for the 30's. 

Aaron


Re: Square brake staffs

Matt Smith
 

Has anyone looked into square wire that bead and jewelry makers use? I see it comes in stainless and various gauges close to .015. Its appears to be available at Michaels and Hobby Lobby. 
--
Matt Smith
Bloomington, IL