Date   

Re: Truck Color

Daniel A. Mitchell
 

We’ve beat this dead horse into the ground here, and many other places, countless times.

“Mineral Red” pigment was from naturally occurring Iron Oxide deposits (rust). Iron oxide can range in color anywhere from yellow to orange to red, to purple, on to black, with most being some shade of reddish brown. So the exact color depends on which deposit of the mineral was mined for the pigment. Then add whatever mix was used to make the paint (concentration, vehicle, etc.). The color varied from place to place and from time to time. In olden times this was all quite local, with paint being mixed in the paint shop from raw material. In later times commercially prepared paint was purchased, and standardization efforts began. Much of this was, and still is “voodoo”. While a lot of progress has been made, exact matches between types of paint (chemistry), substrates, application methods, and between various manufacturers is still not possible.

Dan Mitchell
==========

On Nov 20, 2019, at 11:36 PM, Bill Lugg <luggw1@...> wrote:

Then what I'm getting out of this is that, beyond color drift between batches, mineral red for one road is likely going to be different than mineral read for another, right?

Thanks for the responses, they help a bit with my flat car project.

Bill Lugg


On 11/20/19 6:39 PM, Nelson Moyer wrote:
ATSF and CB&Q are two roads that used the term 'mineral red'. It comes from the red iron oxide containing rock ground into powder and used as a red paint pigment. It was available and cheap, so that's why so many freight car and barns were painted red. One story I've heard about the Q paint shops is that they mixed the pigment into the base 'by the handfull', which would explain paint drift between paint batches and between paint shops. On the Q, the red pigment was from Wyoming mines, so at least it all come from the same general location. Mineral red is a reddish brown color. Floquil offered a mineral red paint, that was very close to the ATSF freight car color. The best Q freight car mineral red is produced by Tru Color as CB&Q Freight Car Red.

Nelson Moyer

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill Lugg
Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2019 6:25 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Truck Color

I see a lot of folks tossing the words "mineral red" around on this list.  What color would that be in terms a modeler (like me) would understand?

Thanks
Bill Lugg






Re: Wedge Plow Blades

Richard Townsend
 

Maybe whoever did the N scale blade would scale it up.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Charlie Vlk <cvlk@...>
To: main <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Sent: Wed, Nov 20, 2019 6:31 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Wedge Plow Blades

Tom-I have an N Scale Shapeways blade for the CB&Q car and would appreciate the photos as well!!
Thanks,
Charlie Vlk


On Nov 20, 2019, at 8:14 PM, Tom Madden via Groups.Io <pullmanboss@...> wrote:


[Edited Message Follows]
I this what you're after, Nelson? It's not petite! It's at the Colorado RR Museum and I took a break from scanning photos this afternoon & went outside and took some photos. Interesting arrangement for raising & lowering the blade. 

Tom Madden


Restrictions on Truck Painting, was Truck Color

Guy Wilber
 

Nelson wrote:  "To simplify my question, which roads painted trucks boxcar red? I’m modeling 1953, so that limits the range to wood DS and SS boxcars, 1932, 1937, and PS-1 boxcars, and misc. hoppers, gondolas and flat cars appropriate for my era."


Nelson,

Restrictions on painting of truck side frames and other parts were implemented in 1948.  The AAR's General Committee approved recommendations from the Car Construction and Arbitration Committees.  These were presented after complaints from a number of member roads regarding, "the impossibility of locating cracks in truck side frames due to the use of heavy bodied asphaltic paints."  The 1948 Interchange Rule 3, Section (t), paragraph (3-e) was revised and presented (via supplement) as such:

Rule 3, Section (t), paragraph (3-e)  New or secondhand truck sides and truck bolsters must not be painted with heavy asphaltic, tar or cement base paints; however, such parts may be coated with light bodied paint that will not prevent detection of flaws or cracks in ordinary inspection.  Car wheels must not be painted.  

"Note.--Existing truck sides and bolsters painted with heavy base paint or having accumulation of rust scale, must have such paint and scale removed when cars go through general repairs."


In 1958 paragraph (3-e) was moved to (3-d), and modified:

Rule 3, Section (t), paragraph (3-e)  New or secondhand truck sides and truck bolsters must not be painted with heavy asphaltic, tar or cement base paints; however, such parts may be coated with light bodied paint that will not prevent detection of flaws or cracks in ordinary inspection.  If interiors of journal boxes are painted, extreme care must be exercised to use paint which will not flake, scale, peel or otherwise contaminate the car oil.Car wheels must not be painted.  

"Note.--Existing truck sides and bolsters painted with heavy base paint or having accumulation of rust scale, must have such paint and scale removed when cars go through general repairs."


Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada    










  
_._,_._,_


Re: Wedge Plow Blades

steve_wintner
 

Nelson, if I understand, no, Shapeways cannot / will not. All Shapeways is doing is providing the service of printing  items designed by others, via a portal.

Whoever made the blade CAD could scale it, and I imagine you can contact them through Shapeways' site and ask.

Steve


Re: Truck Color

Bill Lugg
 

Then what I'm getting out of this is that, beyond color drift between batches, mineral red for one road is likely going to be different than mineral read for another, right?

Thanks for the responses, they help a bit with my flat car project.

Bill Lugg

On 11/20/19 6:39 PM, Nelson Moyer wrote:
ATSF and CB&Q are two roads that used the term 'mineral red'. It comes from the red iron oxide containing rock ground into powder and used as a red paint pigment. It was available and cheap, so that's why so many freight car and barns were painted red. One story I've heard about the Q paint shops is that they mixed the pigment into the base 'by the handfull', which would explain paint drift between paint batches and between paint shops. On the Q, the red pigment was from Wyoming mines, so at least it all come from the same general location. Mineral red is a reddish brown color. Floquil offered a mineral red paint, that was very close to the ATSF freight car color. The best Q freight car mineral red is produced by Tru Color as CB&Q Freight Car Red.

Nelson Moyer

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill Lugg
Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2019 6:25 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Truck Color

I see a lot of folks tossing the words "mineral red" around on this list.  What color would that be in terms a modeler (like me) would understand?

Thanks
Bill Lugg



Re: Chicagoland RPM file (was UP Freight Car Painting & Lettering 1920-1980)

Ted Culotta
 

I forgot to post here that my file can be accessed via my Blog link below. Once there, scroll down several posts to locate.

Cheers,
Ted

Ted Culotta
Speedwitch Media
P.O. Box 392, Guilford, CT 06437


Re: Wedge Plow Blades

Nelson Moyer
 

Charlie, if Shapeways has the N scale drawings, couldn’t they scale the blade for HO?

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Charlie Vlk
Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2019 8:31 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Wedge Plow Blades

 

Tom-I have an N Scale Shapeways blade for the CB&Q car and would appreciate the photos as well!!

Thanks,

Charlie Vlk



On Nov 20, 2019, at 8:14 PM, Tom Madden via Groups.Io <pullmanboss@...> wrote:



[Edited Message Follows]

I this what you're after, Nelson? It's not petite! It's at the Colorado RR Museum and I took a break from scanning photos this afternoon & went outside and took some photos. Interesting arrangement for raising & lowering the blade. 

Tom Madden


Re: Wedge Plow Blades

Nelson Moyer
 

Yes, that’s exactly what I’m looking to model. Thanks for the photos. The flat car is either a FM-11 or FM-11A. The difference is that they were separate order numberx, so once they are renumbered for MOW service, there’s no way to tell which class they came from in a photo. The early conversions had a wood ‘box’ to hold the rock ballast, while later builds had steel plates for the box sides. I’d like to model the wood ballast box version as shown in your photos. Maybe your photos will inspire someone to do the CAD drawing of the blade for 3D printing.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tom Madden via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2019 8:13 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Wedge Plow Blades

 

I this what you're after, Nelson? It's not petite! It's at the Colorado RR Museum and I took a break from scanning photos this afternoon & went outside and took some photos. Interesting arrangement for raising & lowering the blade. 

Tom Madden


Re: Wedge Plow Blades

Charlie Vlk
 

Stupid iPad!!
Sent previous message and THEN the photos appeared!
Thanks!
Charlie Vlk


On Nov 20, 2019, at 8:16 PM, Tom Madden via Groups.Io <pullmanboss@...> wrote:

I this what you're after, Nelson? It's not petite! It's at the Colorado RR Museum and I took a break from scanning photos this afternoon & went outside and took some photos. Interesting arrangement for raising & lowering the blade. 

Tom Madden
<Plow1.jpg>
<Plow2.jpg>
<Plow3.jpg>


Re: Wedge Plow Blades

Charlie Vlk
 

Tom-I have an N Scale Shapeways blade for the CB&Q car and would appreciate the photos as well!!
Thanks,
Charlie Vlk


On Nov 20, 2019, at 8:14 PM, Tom Madden via Groups.Io <pullmanboss@...> wrote:



[Edited Message Follows]

I this what you're after, Nelson? It's not petite! It's at the Colorado RR Museum and I took a break from scanning photos this afternoon & went outside and took some photos. Interesting arrangement for raising & lowering the blade. 

Tom Madden


Re: Wedge Plow Blades

Tom Madden
 
Edited

I this what you're after, Nelson? It's not petite! It's at the Colorado RR Museum and I took a break from scanning photos this afternoon & went outside and took some photos. Interesting arrangement for raising & lowering the blade. 

Tom Madden


Re: Truck Color

Nelson Moyer
 

ATSF and CB&Q are two roads that used the term 'mineral red'. It comes from the red iron oxide containing rock ground into powder and used as a red paint pigment. It was available and cheap, so that's why so many freight car and barns were painted red. One story I've heard about the Q paint shops is that they mixed the pigment into the base 'by the handfull', which would explain paint drift between paint batches and between paint shops. On the Q, the red pigment was from Wyoming mines, so at least it all come from the same general location. Mineral red is a reddish brown color. Floquil offered a mineral red paint, that was very close to the ATSF freight car color. The best Q freight car mineral red is produced by Tru Color as CB&Q Freight Car Red.

Nelson Moyer

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill Lugg
Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2019 6:25 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Truck Color

I see a lot of folks tossing the words "mineral red" around on this list.  What color would that be in terms a modeler (like me) would understand?

Thanks
Bill Lugg


Re: Truck Color

s shaffer
 

Bill Lugg writes:

I see a lot of folks tossing the words "mineral red" around on this list.  What color would that be in terms a modeler (like me) would understand?
To my eyes Mineral Brown is closer to Boxcar Red than it is to Tuscan Red.

Steve Shaffer
Las Cruces, New Mexico USA


Great Northern Railway Newspaper Ad: Post-War Boxcar Shortage

Bob Chaparro
 

Great Northern Railway Newspaper Ad: Post-War Boxcar Shortage

A link to an advertisement placed in the Minneapolis Moring Tribune, August 26, 1946:

https://www.newspapers.com/clip/31350702/star_tribune/

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Truck Color

Bill Lugg
 

I see a lot of folks tossing the words "mineral red" around on this list.  What color would that be in terms a modeler (like me) would understand?

Thanks
Bill Lugg

On 11/20/19 11:35 AM, Nelson Moyer wrote:

CB&Q painted trucks mineral red, and there are many others that painted trucks their boxcar color. Probably  not good to generalize too broadly, especially in ALL CAPS.

Nelson Moyer


Re: Truck Color

Nelson Moyer
 

Yes, lots of variables, that’s why I narrowed the range somewhat from 1940s to 1953. Most of the cars I need truck color on are 1932 and 1937 boxcars.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Eric Hansmann
Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2019 1:07 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Truck Color

 

Consider the era modeled, too. Some companies may have painted the trucks the car color before WW2 or 1930. After that point in time, the railroad may have received freight cars only with black or unpainted trucks.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 


Re: Truck Color

charles slater
 

Santa Fe did, even in the 1953 painting book issued by Santa Fe they were painted with 1 coat of mineral brown.
Charlie Slater

Sent from Outlook



From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Tony Thompson <tony@...>
Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2019 11:36 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Truck Color
 
     There are likely other roads like SP, that painted trucks and underframes black before WW II but after the war, painted all that body color.

Tony Thompson




Re: Truck Color

Tony Thompson
 

Andy Jackson wrote:

Most RRs DID/DO NOT paint truck side frames so defects could more easily be seen. 

In the era of this list, I think this statement is incorrect. My impression is that most roads DID paint side frames. They were not routinely checked VISUALLY for defects.

Tony Thompson




Re: Truck Color

Tony Thompson
 

     There are likely other roads like SP, that painted trucks and underframes black before WW II but after the war, painted all that body color.

Tony Thompson




Re: Truck Color

Dennis Storzek
 

I just looked through my copy of the Soo Line freightcar book, and it reinforced my impression that the proper color for steam era freightcar trucks is GRUNGE COLOR. Plain journal bearings were lubed with oil, not grease, and it was a total loss system; that is, the carmen added oil, but never drained any out. There was no seal around the axle at the back of the box, just a wooden dust guard to keep dirt out of the box. The oil that worked its way to the back of the bearing was slung off the axle onto the face of the wheel, where it attracted dirt. This mix was then slung off the wheel, where it got on everything in the vicinity. After cars were in service for a few years, it's pretty hard to tell what color they were originally.

I seem to recall that Pullman-Standard painted trucks with 'truck paint', a thin bodied black. unless instructed otherwise. Other builders were likely similar. Some railroads specified that the trucks be painted body color, others, such as the Soo, didn't care, and new cars came with black trucks. However, the railroad's own shops saw things differently, and painted the trucks on re-painted cars body color, because it required no masking. So, one railroad, two different standards. In service, they all quickly turned the same color anyway.

Dennis Storzek