Date   

Re: Building GN and CB&Q Truss Rod 40-Foot Boxcars

Bill Welch
 

I knew there are "Prototype Police," had no idea there was a "Slotted Screw" police force. I better be careful about "screwing up."

Bill Welch


Re: Stencil: Heavy Repairs

David Smith
 

Pretty sure those "brackets" are hinges for ice loading doors. 

Best,
Dave Smith


Re: Load of Nash crates bound for Copenhagen in C&NW gon 75951 ca. 1926

gary laakso
 

Brian:  Wonderful pictures, thank you very much for sharing them.

 

Gary Laakso

Northwest of Mike Brock

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Rochon
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2019 5:02 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Load of Nash crates bound for Copenhagen in C&NW gon 75951 ca. 1926

 

From the Steamtown site today.

 

http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-12-10-19/X4586.jpg

 

along with SFRD reefer 6719

 

http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-12-10-19/X4544.jpg

 

Brian Rochon


Re: Building GN and CB&Q Truss Rod 40-Foot Boxcars

Ralph W. Brown
 

Hi Bill,
 
Nothing really, but I have a very strong preference for Philips head screws, primarily because the screw driver can’t easily slide out of the slot as with slotted screws.  The down side of Philips screws is that both the screw head and the screw driver are more easily damage than slotted screw heads ad screw drivers, but that’s not a significant problem for me, especially with the small screws we typically use in our modeling.
 
Pax,
 
 
Ralph Brown
Portland, Maine
PRRT&HS No. 3966
NMRA No. L2532

rbrown51[at]maine[dot]rr[dot]com
 

From: Bill Welch
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2019 6:37 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Building GN and CB&Q Truss Rod 40-Foot Boxcars
 
What is wrong with slotted screws, I have 400 of them?! Well truthfully I have probably used 100 from that 400 screw order.

Bill Welch


Re: Building GN and CB&Q Truss Rod 40-Foot Boxcars

Nelson Moyer
 

Nothing ‘wrong’ with slotted screws, but RTR cars have mostly Philips. I started with slotted because I couldn’t source 2-56 Philips in the lengths I needed locally, but as I got serious about resin building, I ordered 500 each of four Philips 2-56 lengths. I swap out the slotted screws when cars need maintenance so I don’t have to hunt for the right screwdriver, a Philips #0 does it all. I find Philips easier to use than slotted. I standardized on Pan 2-56 Philips for both trucks and couplers as a matter of convenience.

Nelson Moyer

On Dec 10, 2019, at 4:34 AM, Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

What is wrong with slotted screws, I have 400 of them?! Well truthfully I have probably used 100 from that 400 screw order. And then there are the 400+ models already built. Have I messed up using slotted screws? Will my models fall apart?

Bill Welch


Load of Nash crates bound for Copenhagen in C&NW gon 75951 ca. 1926

Brian Rochon
 


Re: Another "What do I do with this" quiz

Kemal Mumcu
 

So I was wrong! Clark, for the CN cars you seek the article you want to read is Railmodel Journal October 2000. Available on TrainLife I believe.

Colin Meikle


Re: WP conversion

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Fred and friends,

What I said, or intended to say, was that WP 8051-8055 were the last of the ex-15001 cars in general service, and that they were gone before 1949. The renumbered 26001-series was assigned to Gerlich plaster service and in theory weren't used for general loading anymore (many, if not all, had interior bulkheads, and some had loading hatches).

Further research in my collection throws a light on series 8051-8055's fate. While the 1947 general arrangement shows the 8051-series still listed as general freight cars, another version of the same general arrangement drawing with the numbers scratched out shows 8051-8085 in "store matl. service". This drawing is reproduced on page 163 of "MAINTENANCE OF WAY EQUIPMENT, WESTERN PACIFIC RAILROAD CO.", the official collection of WP MW car drawings reprinted by the Portola Railroad Museum some 30 years ago. The MW number group is from the book's original table of contents, and is not actually reflected on page 163 itself. The WP could be pretty sloppy about such things, as it really didn't matter much except to the bean counters at headquarters in San Francisco.

A few additional points on the numbers. The span of 8051-8055 comes from Frank Brehm's WP diagram web site, and is based on the caption he presented (sorry but his collection of diagrams is not currently available online). Upon careful examination of the diagram (which I downloaded), I see that the actual number span was 8051-8085. The numbers on the original were overwritten, and are a bit fuzzy, but this became apparent when I knew what to look for. So this tallies with numbers on the MW diagram cited above. According to that diagram, a total of 163 cars from the original 15001-series were converted to MW service (many becoming dormitory, kitchen or shop car conversions). WP MW8051-8085 (to use the correct spacing of WP's maintenance car numbering) apparently remained pretty much in original condition as boxcars.

I did make one mistake in my post, but an honest one based on an error in the drawings. The 12' 10" maximum body height was not at the roof peak, though that is how it is shown on the 1947 re-drawing, and on the MW drawing cited above. That value was actually over the running board, as shown on earlier drawings. I discovered the discrepancy while doing further research after my post.

Yours Aye,

Garth Groff  🦆


On Tue, Dec 10, 2019 at 4:03 AM Fred Jansz <fred@...> wrote:
Garth,
You discussed those cars with me (among others).
John's pictures and info is stacked away at the moment, so out of reach.
I also supplied you with copies of the Pullman drawings.

The last original -but renumbered- Pullman cars remaining on the WP roster were the 26001-26125 plaster cars and they stayed -in MW- until the end of WP in 1983.
These were the last remaining cars on the roster, not the 8051-series tool cars.
See the enclosed 1964 diagram.

cheers
Fred Jansz

Attachments:


Re: Building GN and CB&Q Truss Rod 40-Foot Boxcars

Bill Welch
 
Edited

What is wrong with slotted screws, I have 400 of them?! Well truthfully I have probably used 100 from that 400 screw order. And then there are the 400+ models already built. Have I messed up using slotted screws? Will my models fall apart?

Bill Welch


Re: WP conversion

Fred Jansz
 
Edited

Garth,
You discussed those cars with me (among others).
John's pictures and info is stashed away at the moment, so out of reach.
I also supplied you with copies of the Pullman drawings.

The last original -but renumbered- Pullman cars remaining on the WP roster were the 26001-26125 plaster cars and they stayed -in MW- until the end of WP in 1983.
These were the last remaining cars on the roster, not the 8051-series tool cars.
See the enclosed 1964 diagram.

cheers
Fred Jansz


Re: WP conversion

mel perry
 

hi:
how were the seams or joints sealed?
thanks
mrl perry

On Tue, Dec 10, 2019, 12:31 AM Fred Jansz <fred@...> wrote:
Guys,

I have copies of the Pullman drawings, pictures of the cars in question and I can assure you the roof of these cars consisted of overlapping steel sheets through their lifes from 1916-1983.
Like I wrote before:
- 10 sheets of 3' 5"
- 2 (end) sheets of 3'-3 7/16"
There were NO outside battens, but inside ribs.
Also the caboose roof did not have battens.
The MM drawings are not 100% correct: especially the roof, which has one weird smaller panel  somewhere halfway the roof. See drawing:

And the accurail car is a bad stand-in: roof is wrong, underbody is wrong, it's too tall and ....sigh.

Fred Jansz


Re: WP conversion

Fred Jansz
 

Guys,

I have copies of the Pullman drawings, pictures of the cars in question and I can assure you the roof of these cars consisted of overlapping steel sheets through their lifes from 1916-1983.
Like I wrote before:
- 10 sheets of 3' 5"
- 2 (end) sheets of 3'-3 7/16"
There were NO outside battens, but inside ribs.
Also the caboose roof did not have battens.
The MM drawings are not 100% correct: especially the roof, which has one weird smaller panel  somewhere halfway the roof. See drawing:

And the accurail car is a bad stand-in: roof is wrong, underbody is wrong, it's too tall and ....sigh.

Fred Jansz


Re: HO Scale Utah Coal Route GS Gondola Kits Available

Corey Bonsall
 

Hi Larry,

I'm 3D printing these at home on a Formlabs Form 2 SLA resin printer, it uses a acrylic liquid resin that is UV photo-sensitive.  I do end up with some support blemishes on one side of the car, but those can be manipulated in the printer software to be on easily-sandable locations.  Its a wholly different animal than the cast resins or styrene.

I'm also doing the decals myself, using a Ghost White laser toner cartridge on Microscale paper.

Tim, I'm still learning Inkscape to do the artwork, but my middle age and one bad eye must be getting to me, I cannot see hardly any difference between the model and the photo.  That is one of the very photos I stared at for days to create the artwork too.  I am probably biased though...

These cars did have a lot of similar cousins, I think the CB&Q/C&S had some very close, as well as the 43k series D&RGW.  If we tweak the end side sheets, we get the D&SL cars as well.  The main set of prints I used to draft was a pre-WWI USRA pattern with a few tweaks, so some of the design components/ratios showed up in a lot of cars to follow.

Thanks everyone for the feedback,

Corey Bonsall
 


Re: WP conversion

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

What a relief!  With all the discussion about the roof on these cars I was pleased to find when I got home today that Andy got the roof right in his kit.
The plan in the March 1990 Mainline Modeler also featured the correct roof..

Bill Pardie


Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: "Paul Doggett via Groups.Io" <paul.doggett2472@...>
Date: 12/9/19 12:54 AM (GMT-10:00)
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] WP conversion

Cheers Garth 

I am sanding the roof down it will have to do as a stand in as there’s nothing else available as far as I know.
Paul Doggett. England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 


On 9 Dec 2019, at 10:36, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...> wrote:


Friends,

While I am loath to argue with Tony about this, I find no evidence or mention of roof replacements to the WP 15001-series boxcars. I have copies of several of the general arrangement diagrams for cars in this series, including the 26001-series in plaster service, 8051-8055 (the last in general service circa 1947, see below), the 75001-series stock cars (which had "single-board" roofs, suggesting the original steel claddding was removed), various cars converted to MW service, and numerous photos in my collection and in several WP books. None offer any indication for roof conversions except the stock cars. I can't say it didn't happen, but I will remain unconvinced until somebody finds photographic or documentary evidence.

The 8051-8055 group should be of particular interest to Fred. The general arrangement drawing was reworked 3-28-47 (only the car numbers were changed). These were apparently the last five such cars in general service, if indeed they actually were still in use. I have the WP July 1949 ORER sheets, and these cars are gone from the roster, as are all the 15001-cars. The 8051 series apparently had a very short life with those numbers.

I suggest the Accurail roof should be sanded smooth and Archer seams added. The car is way too tall to be even a good stand-in (they had just an 8-foot IH, and were 12' 10" and change at the roof peak), which was why I disposed of my examples long ago. 

Yours Aye,

Garth Groff 🦆


On Sun, Dec 8, 2019 at 9:17 PM Rich C via Groups.Io <rhcdmc=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
It will look great when you give it The Doggett Weathering magic

On Saturday, December 7, 2019, 07:48:23 AM CST, Paul Doggett via Groups.Io <paul.doggett2472=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:


Hi guys

The Accurail conversion is ready for painting and decals for WP I have left the original roof as Tony Thompson reckons some got steel roofs at some stage. The kit bashing is not perfect as I reckon it’s slightly to high but will be a reasonable stand in.


Paul Doggett.  England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿



Re: Building GN and CB&Q Truss Rod 40-Foot Boxcars

Jim Betz
 

Bill,
  Great work - thanks for posting the photos.  I have to admit I cringed
when I saw the slotted screws - perhaps they are just place holders
for what you will use for the final assembly.
                                                                                 - Jim B.


Re: HO Scale Utah Coal Route GS Gondola Kits Available

lrkdbn
 

These cars look extremely well done. Two questions- who does your printing, and what is the resin or plastic that is used?
Sincerely,
Larry King ,<lrkdbn@...>


Re: Another "What do I do with this" quiz

Joseph
 

Clark, I have the articles copied and ready to mail to you)my scanner is not playing with the laptop today)
Joe Binish

On Mon, Dec 9, 2019 at 6:21 PM Clark Propst <cepropst@q.com> wrote:
Thanks to all!  Yes, Colin is close and Dennis is correct (he should know) The car has 7/8 ends. 
The article Eric provided the link to was for wood ended cars. There is another article on making CV 1 1/2 door cars. 
It's not the same as the F&C car.
All's I need now is the number series and I can have two Canadian lumber cars. I will check the Accurail website for a number series.
CW Propst


Re: WP conversion

Tony Thompson
 

Garth Groff awrote:

While I am loath to argue with Tony about this, I find no evidence or mention of roof replacements to the WP 15001-series boxcars. 

Some years ago I was discussing these cars with someone I believe is knowledgeable about WP modeling (might have been John Ryczkowski) and he mentioned steel outside roofs being applied. Might that have been the caboose conversions, if not the box cars? But that was my basis. I don't have photos.

I suggest the Accurail roof should be sanded smooth and Archer seams added. The car is way too tall to be even a good stand-in (they had just an 8-foot IH, and were 12' 10" and change at the roof peak), which was why I disposed of my examples long ago. 

        Sanding off the ribs would certainly make it look better.

Tony Thompson




Re: Another "What do I do with this" quiz

Clark Propst
 

Thanks to all!  Yes, Colin is close and Dennis is correct (he should know) The car has 7/8 ends. 
The article Eric provided the link to was for wood ended cars. There is another article on making CV 1 1/2 door cars. 
It's not the same as the F&C car.
All's I need now is the number series and I can have two Canadian lumber cars. I will check the Accurail website for a number series.
CW Propst


Re: Another "What do I do with this" quiz

Dennis Storzek
 

On Mon, Dec 9, 2019 at 03:30 PM, Kemal Mumcu wrote:
Clark's model has dreadnought ends?
Clark's model has 7/8 corrugated ends. While it's true that all this style boxcar built for CNR had single sheathed ends, they did receive an order of door and a half automobile cars that were 9'-0" IH and had corrugated ends. 9'-0" quickly proved to be too small for an auto car, and these were subsequently rebuilt as single door boxcars with steel doors, keeping their original steel ends. That's the prototype for the Accurail 4400 and 4500 series carbody. I unfortunately don't have number series info at my finger tips.

I thought Rail Model Journal did a later article on prototypes for the nine panel Z bar cars with steel ends.

Dennis Storzek