Date   

BAR Potato Reefers with outside heaters

George Courtney
 

Did any of the BAR wood reefers, in the late 1940's blue and white scheme, (No Red) have outside hung heaters?  I searched and saw a discussion on heaters placed inside, but no clarification on whether or not their were external heaters on these cars around 1950.  I'm referring to actual reefers and not insulated boxcars.

George Courtney


Re: DL&W 44078 (was Photo: SRLX Reefers)

mel perry
 

i guess your first quest would be an
ORER for dims? for slicing & dicing
mel perry


On Sun, Dec 29, 2019, 11:52 AM Robert kirkham <rdkirkham@...> wrote:
I was wondering if there is an existing model for this other car (shown in the photo Bob has linked below.) It looks like the Tichy 3001 end would be a good starting point, and maybe ? an Accurail floor as a starting point. 
 
I do not have any info on the history of these cars, so do not know if would still be running in 1946 when I model.  But it made me curious.  Would like to see decent photos of the car side and frame too.
 
Didn’t see this series mentioned in the list archives
 
 
Rob Kirkham
 
 
 
Photo: SRLX Reefers
Does anyone have details about the Swift refrigerator cars that are on the right side of this photo?
Scroll on the photo to enlarge it.
The lettering on the one car appears to say "Safety Refrigerator".
Thanks.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA
 
 


Re: Photo: SRLX Reefers

Bill Daniels <billinsf@...>
 

Richard is correct... the reporting marks show a S.R.I.X. on my 27” 5 k monitor.

Bill Daniels
Santa Rosa, California


On Dec 29, 2019, at 11:16 AM, Richard Townsend via Groups.Io <richtownsend@...> wrote:


I don't think they are SRLX cars. I think they are SRIX. The dot after the "I" makes it look like an "L". My 1931 CBC on pages 190-192 has a photo and plans. The cars used a "silica-gel iceless system" for refrigeration. There were burners in one end heating, I presume, the silica gel, that somehow resulted in cooling the car via evaporators and condensers at the roof.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io <chiefbobbb@...>
To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Sun, Dec 29, 2019 10:34 am
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: SRLX Reefers

Photo: SRLX Reefers
Does anyone have details about the Swift refrigerator cars that are on the right side of this photo?
Scroll on the photo to enlarge it.
The lettering on the one car appears to say "Safety Refrigerator".
Thanks.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA


Re: DL&W 44078 (was Photo: SRLX Reefers)

Robert kirkham
 

Thanks Ben. Well, good to put that confusion aside. My first impression had been steel sheathing and imagined a re-build. Looking twice, I see no rivets.

USRA double sheathed boxcar it is.

Rob

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Benjamin Hom
Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2019 12:13 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] DL&W 44078 (was Photo: SRLX Reefers)

Rob Kirkham asked:
"I was wondering if there is an existing model for this other car (shown in the photo Bob has linked below.) It looks like the Tichy 3001 end would be a good starting point, and maybe ? an Accurail floor as a starting point."

Or, depending on the era modeled, you can pick up your choice of HO scale USRA double-sheathed boxcar model. DL&W 44200-44799, 600 cars. 


"I do not have any info on the history of these cars, so do not know if would still be running in 1946 when I model.  But it made me curious.  Would like to see decent photos of the car side and frame too."

January 1940 ORER lists 439 cars, down to 18 cars by January 1950.  Cars received Hutchins roofs; your best bet for 1946 would be Westerfield 3863.
https://id18538.securedata.net/westerfieldmodels.com/merchantmanager/product_info.php?products_id=238


Ben Hom


Re: micro coat flat

spsalso
 

If'n you have a bottle of clear, and you wonder whether it is gloss or flat:  the flat will have "sediment" (the flattening agent), after it's been sitting awhile.

When I've wanted more "flatness" in my clearcoats, I've waited for the sediment to settle, and poured off some of the clear.  I did it with Floquil.  And I do it for Dullcoat.


Ed

Edward Sutorik


Re: DL&W 44078 (was Photo: SRLX Reefers)

Benjamin Hom
 

Rob Kirkham asked:
"I was wondering if there is an existing model for this other car (shown in the photo Bob has linked below.) It looks like the Tichy 3001 end would be a good starting point, and maybe ? an Accurail floor as a starting point."

Or, depending on the era modeled, you can pick up your choice of HO scale USRA double-sheathed boxcar model. DL&W 44200-44799, 600 cars. 


"I do not have any info on the history of these cars, so do not know if would still be running in 1946 when I model.  But it made me curious.  Would like to see decent photos of the car side and frame too."

January 1940 ORER lists 439 cars, down to 18 cars by January 1950.  Cars received Hutchins roofs; your best bet for 1946 would be Westerfield 3863.
https://id18538.securedata.net/westerfieldmodels.com/merchantmanager/product_info.php?products_id=238


Ben Hom


DL&W 44078 (was Photo: SRLX Reefers)

Robert kirkham
 

I was wondering if there is an existing model for this other car (shown in the photo Bob has linked below.) It looks like the Tichy 3001 end would be a good starting point, and maybe ? an Accurail floor as a starting point. 
 
I do not have any info on the history of these cars, so do not know if would still be running in 1946 when I model.  But it made me curious.  Would like to see decent photos of the car side and frame too.
 
Didn’t see this series mentioned in the list archives
 
 
Rob Kirkham
 
 
 
Photo: SRLX Reefers
Does anyone have details about the Swift refrigerator cars that are on the right side of this photo?
Scroll on the photo to enlarge it.
The lettering on the one car appears to say "Safety Refrigerator".
Thanks.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA
 
 


Re: SN Tank Car MW 68

Jim Betz
 

Garth,
  I don't have my ORERs where I can get at them (recent move).  Can't you
find out info about this car in them going by car number and "go from there"?
If you can find the car(s) you should also be able to learn builder, type, etc.
                                       - Jim B.


Re: Photo: SRLX Reefers

Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
 

On 12/29/2019 11:16 AM, Richard Townsend via Groups.Io wrote:
I think they are SRIX.

See;

https://books.google.com/books?id=oHJCAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA406&lpg=PA406&dq=silica-gel+iceless+system+for+refrigeration&source=bl&ots=yBsJQW5Cp0&sig=ACfU3U3pXWXVImL6dYTdlXXInunnf328qw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjnrPbby9vmAhWZLs0KHd8zCYwQ6AEwAHoECAcQAQ#v=onepage&q=silica-gel%20iceless%20system%20for%20refrigeration&f=false

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, 
SPROG, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: Photo: DL&W 70793

Tony Thompson
 

In the early 20th century, there were cars called "hopper-bottom gondolas," that had modest amounts of slope sheets to help most of the cargo depart through the doors. In later years, the hopper definition was changed to "self clearing," meaning ALL cargo would depart by gravity. Many hopper-bottom gondolas were not entirely self-clearing and could not have been called hoppers in later years.

Tony Thompson




Re: Photo: SRLX Reefers

Richard Townsend
 

The CBC plans and photo are for a steel-bodied version of the car, lettered SRIX 101, built 10-29.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Townsend via Groups.Io <richtownsend@...>
To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Sun, Dec 29, 2019 11:16 am
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: SRLX Reefers

I don't think they are SRLX cars. I think they are SRIX. The dot after the "I" makes it look like an "L". My 1931 CBC on pages 190-192 has a photo and plans. The cars used a "silica-gel iceless system" for refrigeration. There were burners in one end heating, I presume, the silica gel, that somehow resulted in cooling the car via evaporators and condensers at the roof.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io <chiefbobbb@...>
To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Sun, Dec 29, 2019 10:34 am
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: SRLX Reefers

Photo: SRLX Reefers
Does anyone have details about the Swift refrigerator cars that are on the right side of this photo?
Scroll on the photo to enlarge it.
The lettering on the one car appears to say "Safety Refrigerator".
Thanks.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA


Re: Photo: SRLX Reefers

Richard Townsend
 

I don't think they are SRLX cars. I think they are SRIX. The dot after the "I" makes it look like an "L". My 1931 CBC on pages 190-192 has a photo and plans. The cars used a "silica-gel iceless system" for refrigeration. There were burners in one end heating, I presume, the silica gel, that somehow resulted in cooling the car via evaporators and condensers at the roof.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io <chiefbobbb@...>
To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Sun, Dec 29, 2019 10:34 am
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: SRLX Reefers

Photo: SRLX Reefers
Does anyone have details about the Swift refrigerator cars that are on the right side of this photo?
Scroll on the photo to enlarge it.
The lettering on the one car appears to say "Safety Refrigerator".
Thanks.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA


Photo: SRLX Reefers

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: SRLX Reefers

Does anyone have details about the Swift refrigerator cars that are on the right side of this photo?

http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-12-29-19/X7002.jpg

Scroll on the photo to enlarge it.

The lettering on the one car appears to say "Safety Refrigerator".

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Photo: DL&W 70793

mel perry
 

eric:
understand whar you are saying, question arises, in regards to the
useage of only one  set of truss
rods?, normally two sets were the
minimum, usually inside and outside,
matter of a fact, i csn only remember
one other car that had a single set,
and that was a steel framed NP reefer,
if i remember correctly, 
thanks
mel perry

On Sun, Dec 29, 2019, 7:52 AM Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:
These MCB/ARA/AAR car codes are a moving target. Designations depend upon era and what the railroad applies as the designation.

In this specific case (DL&W 70793), the MCB designation for DL&W 70000-70999 is listed as HT in the October 1926 ORER. Under the Markings and Kind of Car column for this series, the cars are noted as Hopper, Twin, (Wood) Steel Undfr. I do not have a 1927 or 1928 ORER to compare the data. The June 1917 ORER also lists these cars as HT, but the data in the Markings column is slightly different; Hopper, Twin, Steel Underframe.

The AAR Mechanical Designation information on Ian Cranstone's website has a few HT entries.

HT - Hopper (Twin). Similar to ordinary hopper, only equipped with two or more hopper doors instead of one. (from 1/17-2/26)

HT - An Open Top Car, similar in construction to the "HM" car but having more than one set of double hoppers. (from 3/27-10/28)

HT - An Open Top Self-Clearing Car, having fixed sides and ends and bottom consisting of three or more divided hoppers with doors hinged crosswise of car and dumping between rails. (from 3/29-4/99)

http://www.nakina.net/other/aartype.html

While it looks like a gondola, and may be similar to other gondolas with a GB designation, the ORER listing has these DL&W cars as HT.


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN





-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2019 8:53 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: DL&W 70793


I think it's been said before - a GB gondola is a car with ends, sides, no roof, and a flat, solid bottom for cargo space. The height of the sides, or ends, or whether the car was purpose built or rebuilt from a flat car is irrelevant. Descriptions of ARA/AAR car classes can be found in the equipment registers.




On 12/29/2019 5:40 AM, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford wrote:
> Mel and Bob,
>
> I'd go with gondola too. [snip]
>


--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*







Re: Photo: DL&W 70793

Bob Webber
 

I have an ACF builders photo (1907) of D&H 27507 - a definite hopper - with "xxxx hopper door service | patented"  on the side.  Very similar construction (at least given the two photos).

Most hoppers and Drop Bottom Gons had some form of patented door/opening/device signage on the car - not unlike that for MCB or other draft gear, brake beams, axles,  and other patented devices.   Were you able to look at the side of this as a new car, you'd likely see the "Hopper" lettering...although most of the time this was in 1" or 2" letters to adhere to the letter of the contracts/license/patent.

On the D&H car, there is even smaller lettering at the top of the non-brake-staff end that can not be determined (using that designation on purpose as the lettering does not appear to refer to the staff,wheel or other brake portions - the New York Brake info is lettered below that though...)



At 10:01 AM 12/29/2019, you wrote:
I found the same listings as Eric, and these cars are present in my 1930 ORER, but not my 1935.

I think they are "legitimate" class HT cars.  There is a clamshell-type hopper chute just in front of the KD air reservoir, and probably a second one hiding behind it.  The design is somewhat reminiscent of the D&H's Seley hoppers in their as-built configuration, absent the steel truss.
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA

Bob Webber


Re: Youngstown Door Nomenclature

James Brewer
 

Andy,

Thanks for providing this information; I have copied and pasted to a word document and saved for reference; much appreciated.

Jim Brewer
Glenwood MD

On Sun, Dec 22, 2019 at 9:25 PM Randy Hammill <nhrr@...> wrote:
One more thought. Another reason why I think it makes sense to think in terms of the joint not being a corrugation that is counted, is to think of the panels independently. That is, the top panel of a door, whether the joint is raised or flat, has x number of corrugations. Until it is actually attached to another panel, the bottom raised portion of the panel wouldn't be a corrugation, it would just be the bottom frame of the panel. 

In other words, if you were constructing a door, and the current panels had a raised joint, you'd select two 5 corrugation panels and one 4 corrugation panel for door #3. If that makes sense.

Randy
--

Randy Hammill
Modeling the New Haven Railroad 1946-1954
http://newbritainstation.com


Re: Photo: DL&W 70793

Dave Parker
 

I found the same listings as Eric, and these cars are present in my 1930 ORER, but not my 1935.

I think they are "legitimate" class HT cars.  There is a clamshell-type hopper chute just in front of the KD air reservoir, and probably a second one hiding behind it.  The design is somewhat reminiscent of the D&H's Seley hoppers in their as-built configuration, absent the steel truss.
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: Photo: DL&W 70793

Eric Hansmann
 

These MCB/ARA/AAR car codes are a moving target. Designations depend upon era and what the railroad applies as the designation.

In this specific case (DL&W 70793), the MCB designation for DL&W 70000-70999 is listed as HT in the October 1926 ORER. Under the Markings and Kind of Car column for this series, the cars are noted as Hopper, Twin, (Wood) Steel Undfr. I do not have a 1927 or 1928 ORER to compare the data. The June 1917 ORER also lists these cars as HT, but the data in the Markings column is slightly different; Hopper, Twin, Steel Underframe.

The AAR Mechanical Designation information on Ian Cranstone's website has a few HT entries.

HT - Hopper (Twin). Similar to ordinary hopper, only equipped with two or more hopper doors instead of one. (from 1/17-2/26)

HT - An Open Top Car, similar in construction to the "HM" car but having more than one set of double hoppers. (from 3/27-10/28)

HT - An Open Top Self-Clearing Car, having fixed sides and ends and bottom consisting of three or more divided hoppers with doors hinged crosswise of car and dumping between rails. (from 3/29-4/99)

http://www.nakina.net/other/aartype.html

While it looks like a gondola, and may be similar to other gondolas with a GB designation, the ORER listing has these DL&W cars as HT.


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2019 8:53 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: DL&W 70793


I think it's been said before - a GB gondola is a car with ends, sides, no roof, and a flat, solid bottom for cargo space. The height of the sides, or ends, or whether the car was purpose built or rebuilt from a flat car is irrelevant. Descriptions of ARA/AAR car classes can be found in the equipment registers.




On 12/29/2019 5:40 AM, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford wrote:
Mel and Bob,

I'd go with gondola too. [snip]

--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*


Re: Photo: DL&W 70793

Tim O'Connor
 

I think it's been said before - a GB gondola is a car with ends, sides, no roof, and a flat,
solid bottom for cargo space. The height of the sides, or ends, or whether the car was purpose built
or rebuilt from a flat car is irrelevant. Descriptions of ARA/AAR car classes can be found in the
equipment registers.

On 12/29/2019 5:40 AM, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford wrote:
Mel and Bob,

I'd go with gondola too. [snip]
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*


Re: Photo: DL&W 70793

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Mel and Bob,

I'd go with gondola too. The car obviously was constructed as a single piece, rather than a box added to a flat car. I don't see actual stake pockets here, just the stake permanently mounted to the side sills. Also note that it has some sort of dump mechanism. That said, how is this car classified in the ORERs of the time?

The Western Pacific had some GB gondolas rebuilt in 1947 from Pullman 1915 single-sheathed boxcars (series 15001) with a permanent box structure. They are later described in company training materials as "Flat car with sideboards". Here's the quote: " . . . 31 rebuilt Western Pacific Maintenance of Way cars, numbers M.W. 6101 to M.W. 6131 inclusive, are called 'sideboard flats'. Sides are about 27" high above floor. Do not confuse with gondolas."

By 1949 all but one had been removed from the ORER listing. I suspect they were a stop-gap solution to a mill gondola shortage, but their 1915 underframes weren't up to the strain. These cars served the WP until the end in work train service. At least a half-dozen went to various preservation lines and museums for conversion to open passenger cars in the 1980s and continue to soldier on. The WP also had a small number of 50' flat cars equipped with temporary box structures at about this time in mill service. These were true sideboard flats.

Yours Aye,

Mungo Napier, Laird of Mallard Lodge  🦆


On Sat, Dec 28, 2019 at 2:27 PM mel perry <clipper841@...> wrote:
definitely a gondola
mel perry

On Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 11:04 AM Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Photo: DL&W 70793

Nice shot of this car. Is it a flat car or a gondola?

http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-12-26-19/X6139.jpg

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

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