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Re: Gondola identification
Jack Mullen
Ted,
Have you looked at PRR G29 class? True, IL is only 46', but it's 3'8" IH with 11 stake sides. NYC also had 11 stake steel gons, but the ones I'm aware of, 324xxx series, are 50' IL and a foot taller. Most steel, straight-side mill gons seem to have an odd number of panels. Could yours be a composite gon that's been resheathed with diagonal truss members removed? A number of roads had 12 panel composite gons with straight sills, including your Milwaukee, iirc. It would *really* help to have a photo. There are many details that might cue recognition, or tend to support or reject a possible match. A few such as whether the centersill is straight or fishbelly; end sills flush or projecting; spacing of stakes and their shape might be described, but it's a lot easier to recognize a picture of a face than a description. Jack Mullen
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Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Gondola identification
Ted Schnepf
Hi Elden, The general appearance is similar. The G34 seems to have tapering stakes, my car is straight stakes. Thank you for writing the PRR gon book. Ted Schnepf 126 Will Scarlet, Elgin, Ill. 60120 847=697-5353
On Tuesday, January 7, 2020, 12:18:54 PM CST, Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@...> wrote:
Gang; The gondola certainly is an unloved, disparaged, forlorn freight car. That is why I decided to do a book on PRR's fleet! The PRR G34 class was a 46'IL, 11 rib/12 panel straight sidesill, fixed Dread end, riveted gon, but a photo would help. Does it look like these? Thanks! Elden Gatwood -----Original Message----- From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor Sent: Tuesday, January 7, 2020 9:40 AM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Gondola identification The B&O had 47'1" IL TOFC flat cars (P-54) rebuilt from O-27 gondolas. A PRR G31D is NOTHING like your description. On 1/6/2020 5:04 PM, Ted Schnepf wrote: Hello Everyone, Gondola's are the forgotten railroad cars. Very little had been written about them and there are so many variations. I want to ID a mill type gon. Its inside length is 47' 6" and inside height about 3' 9". The sides have a straight sill (no fish belly) with 12 panels and 11 side stakes. The fixed ends are dreadnought. The car is riveted construction. I started by looking at PRR books, but no match (a G31D might be close). Mr Kresse's book about C&O gons show one of the correct general length, but has taller sides for use in coal hauling. Thought about a USRA mill gon, but doesn't seem to match. In most freight car books, gons are very limited in space covered. Can anyone identify my roughly 49 foot, 11 side stake, riveted gondola? Ted Schnepf 126 Will Scarlet, Elgin, Ill. 60120 847=697-5353 -- Tim O'Connor Sterling, Massachusetts
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Re: Gondola identification
Ted Schnepf
Hi Tim, Thanks for the lead. The O27 matches my car in appearance. Only difference is 12 ribs versus 11 on the model. Ted Schnepf 126 Will Scarlet, Elgin, Ill. 60120 847=697-5353
On Tuesday, January 7, 2020, 08:38:54 AM CST, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:
The B&O had 47'1" IL TOFC flat cars (P-54) rebuilt from O-27 gondolas. A PRR G31D is NOTHING like your description. On 1/6/2020 5:04 PM, Ted Schnepf wrote: Hello Everyone,
Gondola's are the
forgotten railroad cars. Very little had been written
about them and there are so many variations.
I want to ID a mill
type gon. Its inside length is 47' 6" and inside height
about 3' 9". The sides have a straight sill (no fish
belly) with 12 panels and 11 side stakes. The fixed ends
are dreadnought. The car is riveted construction.
I started by looking at
PRR books, but no match (a G31D might be close). Mr
Kresse's book about C&O gons show one of the correct
general length, but has taller sides for use in coal
hauling. Thought about a USRA mill gon, but doesn't seem
to match.
In most freight car
books, gons are very limited in space covered.
Can anyone identify my
roughly 49 foot, 11 side stake, riveted gondola?
Ted Schnepf
126 Will Scarlet,
Elgin, Ill. 60120
847=697-5353
-- Tim O'Connor Sterling, Massachusetts
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Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Gondola identification
Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Guys;
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
The USRA 46'IL gons also had 12 ribs, not 11, IIRC. Elden Gatwood
-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor Sent: Tuesday, January 7, 2020 9:40 AM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Gondola identification The B&O had 47'1" IL TOFC flat cars (P-54) rebuilt from O-27 gondolas. A PRR G31D is NOTHING like your description. On 1/6/2020 5:04 PM, Ted Schnepf wrote: Hello Everyone, Gondola's are the forgotten railroad cars. Very little had been written about them and there are so many variations. I want to ID a mill type gon. Its inside length is 47' 6" and inside height about 3' 9". The sides have a straight sill (no fish belly) with 12 panels and 11 side stakes. The fixed ends are dreadnought. The car is riveted construction. I started by looking at PRR books, but no match (a G31D might be close). Mr Kresse's book about C&O gons show one of the correct general length, but has taller sides for use in coal hauling. Thought about a USRA mill gon, but doesn't seem to match. In most freight car books, gons are very limited in space covered. Can anyone identify my roughly 49 foot, 11 side stake, riveted gondola? Ted Schnepf 126 Will Scarlet, Elgin, Ill. 60120 847=697-5353 -- Tim O'Connor Sterling, Massachusetts
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Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Gondola identification
Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Gang;
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
The gondola certainly is an unloved, disparaged, forlorn freight car. That is why I decided to do a book on PRR's fleet! The PRR G34 class was a 46'IL, 11 rib/12 panel straight sidesill, fixed Dread end, riveted gon, but a photo would help. Does it look like these? Thanks! Elden Gatwood
-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor Sent: Tuesday, January 7, 2020 9:40 AM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Gondola identification The B&O had 47'1" IL TOFC flat cars (P-54) rebuilt from O-27 gondolas. A PRR G31D is NOTHING like your description. On 1/6/2020 5:04 PM, Ted Schnepf wrote: Hello Everyone, Gondola's are the forgotten railroad cars. Very little had been written about them and there are so many variations. I want to ID a mill type gon. Its inside length is 47' 6" and inside height about 3' 9". The sides have a straight sill (no fish belly) with 12 panels and 11 side stakes. The fixed ends are dreadnought. The car is riveted construction. I started by looking at PRR books, but no match (a G31D might be close). Mr Kresse's book about C&O gons show one of the correct general length, but has taller sides for use in coal hauling. Thought about a USRA mill gon, but doesn't seem to match. In most freight car books, gons are very limited in space covered. Can anyone identify my roughly 49 foot, 11 side stake, riveted gondola? Ted Schnepf 126 Will Scarlet, Elgin, Ill. 60120 847=697-5353 -- Tim O'Connor Sterling, Massachusetts
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Re: Crane ID Help
What happened to the rear nameplate casting (in the ID photo, not this one)? Both Burros and Brownhoists had it.
On 1/7/2020 10:56 AM, Douglas Harding wrote:
--
Tim O'Connor Sterling, Massachusetts
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Re: 3-3-3 ends
Ladders. I think so... can't find the kit right now.
On 1/7/2020 9:03 AM, Greg Martin via Groups.Io wrote:
--
Tim O'Connor Sterling, Massachusetts
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Re: Crane ID Help
Here is a truck mounted crane with the same cab/body https://www.flickr.com/photos/67384646@N08/8108383830 One comment says the crane is a Browning .
Doug Harding www.iowacentralrr.org
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
Friends,
Attached are three photos of an unnumbered crane owned by the Winchester & Western. All three shots were outside their shops at Gore, Virginia, and taken from around 1990s to sometime past 2000 (the color view), but the crane definitely fits our era.
Any thoughts on the builder and model. I've looked through my few books with crane photos and don't find a match. George Elwood's Fallen Flags site does not have a photo (yet!). Yours Aye,
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Re: Gondola identification
The B&O had 47'1" IL TOFC flat cars (P-54) rebuilt from O-27 gondolas. A PRR G31D is NOTHING like your description.
On 1/6/2020 5:04 PM, Ted Schnepf wrote:
--
Tim O'Connor Sterling, Massachusetts
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Re: Crane ID Help
Ted Schnepf
Hello, I believe all Burro cranes only have two axles. this crane has 4 axles. A guess would be Industrial Brownhoist. Ted Schnepf 126 Will Scarlet, Elgin, Ill. 60120 847=697-5353
On Tuesday, January 7, 2020, 07:50:08 AM CST, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:
Looks like a BURRO crane Attached are three photos of an unnumbered crane owned by the Winchester & Western. All three shots were outside their shops at Gore, Virginia, and taken from around 1990s to sometime past 2000 (the color view), but the crane definitely fits our era.
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Re: 3-3-3 ends
Greg Martin
Were the details molded on? Greg Martin Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
-------- Original message -------- From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> Date: 1/7/20 5:54 AM (GMT-08:00) To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] 3-3-3 ends Speaking of 3-3-3 ends, what do folks think of the 3-3-3 separate end part that came with the WALTHERS 50 foot single sheathed box car kits? Tim O'Connor ====================================== On 1/5/2020 6:43 PM, Tom Madden via Groups.Io wrote: On Sun, Jan 5, 2020 at 11:36 AM, Greg Martin wrote: -- Hey Boss, Somehow I got deleted from this group in late May. I guess someone didn't like me. Jail is a lonely place. Greg Martin
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Re: 3-3-3 ends
Speaking of 3-3-3 ends, what do folks think of the 3-3-3 separate end part that came with the WALTHERS 50 foot single sheathed box car kits? Tim O'Connor ======================================
On 1/5/2020 6:43 PM, Tom Madden via Groups.Io wrote:
On Sun, Jan 5, 2020 at 11:36 AM, Greg Martin wrote: --
Tim O'Connor Sterling, Massachusetts
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Re: Crane ID Help
Looks like a BURRO crane Attached are three photos of an unnumbered crane owned by the Winchester & Western. All three shots were outside their shops at Gore, Virginia, and taken from around 1990s to sometime past 2000 (the color view), but the crane definitely fits our era.
--
Tim O'Connor Sterling, Massachusetts
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Crane ID Help
Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
Friends, Attached are three photos of an unnumbered crane owned by the Winchester & Western. All three shots were outside their shops at Gore, Virginia, and taken from around 1990s to sometime past 2000 (the color view), but the crane definitely fits our era. Any thoughts on the builder and model. I've looked through my few books with crane photos and don't find a match. George Elwood's Fallen Flags site does not have a photo (yet!). Yours Aye, Garth Groff 🦆
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Re: Gondola identification
mel perry
a picture would be nice, so we would know what you are talking about? thanks mel perry
On Mon, Jan 6, 2020, 6:40 PM Ted Schnepf <railsunl@...> wrote:
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Re: Gondola identification
Ted Schnepf
Hi Ron, I looked in Thompson's SP book and did not see a match. The model does not have any drop doors. Ted Schnepf 126 Will Scarlet, Elgin, Ill. 60120 847=697-5353
On Monday, January 6, 2020, 07:14:40 PM CST, mopacfirst <ron.merrick@...> wrote:
Do you have a picture, or some other way we can see what you're describing? As a total shot in the dark, there was a class of SP gons at about 48' that I think were straight sides. I built a model of one, perhaps from Speedwitch, but both the model and my SP books are packed so I can't be more specific. Ron Merrick
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Re: Gondola identification
mopacfirst
Do you have a picture, or some other way we can see what you're describing? As a total shot in the dark, there was a class of SP gons at about 48' that I think were straight sides. I built a model of one, perhaps from Speedwitch, but both the model and my SP books are packed so I can't be more specific.
Ron Merrick
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Re: Erie RR Notice On Stop-Off Cars
Dennis Storzek
On Mon, Jan 6, 2020 at 01:10 PM, Michael Aufderheide wrote:
I thought that was odd too; to suggest the first consignee would re-position the load. What I have seen in other sources were bulkheads made from dunnage to separate the parts of the loads and keep them from shifting when the first were removed.Although, since the first consignee had to call the local agent to apply new car seals, the railroad did have some leverage... don't re-stack or block the load, and we won't seal the car, leaving consignee No. 1 responsible. In reality, it was the shipper's responsibility to properly block/ bulkhead the load; this seems to indicate that the ERIE was having problems with this, and was trying to push it off on the consignees. Dennis Storzek
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Gondola identification
Ted Schnepf
Hello Everyone, Gondola's are the forgotten railroad cars. Very little had been written about them and there are so many variations. I want to ID a mill type gon. Its inside length is 47' 6" and inside height about 3' 9". The sides have a straight sill (no fish belly) with 12 panels and 11 side stakes. The fixed ends are dreadnought. The car is riveted construction. I started by looking at PRR books, but no match (a G31D might be close). Mr Kresse's book about C&O gons show one of the correct general length, but has taller sides for use in coal hauling. Thought about a USRA mill gon, but doesn't seem to match. In most freight car books, gons are very limited in space covered. Can anyone identify my roughly 49 foot, 11 side stake, riveted gondola? Ted Schnepf 126 Will Scarlet, Elgin, Ill. 60120 847=697-5353
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Re: Erie RR Notice On Stop-Off Cars
Bruce,
I thought that was odd too; to suggest the first consignee would re-position the load. What I have seen in other sources were bulkheads made from dunnage to separate the parts of the loads and keep them from shifting when the first were removed. Regards, Mike Aufderheide
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