Date   

Re: Gondola identification

Jack Mullen
 

Ted, 
Have you looked at PRR G29 class?  True, IL is only 46', but it's 3'8" IH with 11 stake sides.

NYC also had 11 stake steel gons, but the ones I'm aware of, 324xxx series, are 50' IL and a foot taller.

Most steel, straight-side mill gons seem to have an odd number of panels. Could yours be a composite gon that's been resheathed with diagonal truss members removed? A number of roads had 12 panel composite gons with straight sills, including your Milwaukee, iirc.

It would *really* help to have a photo. There are many details that might cue recognition, or tend to support or reject a possible match. A few such as whether the centersill is straight or fishbelly;  end sills flush or projecting; spacing of stakes and their shape might be described, but it's a lot easier to recognize a picture of a face than a description.

Jack Mullen


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Gondola identification

Ted Schnepf
 

Hi Elden,

The general appearance is similar.  The G34 seems to have tapering stakes, my car is straight stakes.

Thank you for writing the PRR gon book.

Ted Schnepf
126 Will Scarlet,
Elgin, Ill. 60120


847=697-5353


On Tuesday, January 7, 2020, 12:18:54 PM CST, Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@...> wrote:


Gang;

The gondola certainly is an unloved, disparaged, forlorn freight car.  That is why I decided to do a book on PRR's fleet!

The PRR G34 class was a 46'IL, 11 rib/12 panel straight sidesill, fixed Dread end, riveted gon, but a photo would help.  Does it look like these?

Thanks!

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Tuesday, January 7, 2020 9:40 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Gondola identification


The B&O had 47'1" IL TOFC flat cars (P-54) rebuilt from O-27 gondolas.

A PRR G31D is NOTHING like your description.



On 1/6/2020 5:04 PM, Ted Schnepf wrote:


    Hello Everyone,
   
   
    Gondola's are the forgotten railroad cars.  Very little had been written about them and there are so many variations.
   
   
    I want to ID a mill type gon.  Its inside  length is 47' 6" and inside height about 3' 9". The sides have a straight sill (no fish belly) with 12 panels and 11 side stakes.  The fixed ends are dreadnought.  The car is riveted construction.
   
   
    I started by looking at PRR books, but no match  (a G31D might be close).  Mr Kresse's  book about C&O gons show one of the correct general length, but has taller sides for use in coal hauling.  Thought about a USRA  mill gon, but doesn't seem to match.
   
   
    In most freight car books, gons are very limited in space covered.
   
   
    Can anyone identify my roughly 49 foot, 11 side stake, riveted gondola?
   
   
    Ted Schnepf
    126 Will Scarlet,
    Elgin, Ill. 60120
   
   
   
   
    847=697-5353


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts





Re: Gondola identification

Ted Schnepf
 

Hi Tim,

Thanks for the lead.  The O27 matches my car in appearance.  Only difference is 12 ribs versus 11 on the model.

Ted Schnepf
126 Will Scarlet,
Elgin, Ill. 60120


847=697-5353


On Tuesday, January 7, 2020, 08:38:54 AM CST, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:



The B&O had 47'1" IL TOFC flat cars (P-54) rebuilt from O-27 gondolas.

A PRR G31D is NOTHING like your description.



On 1/6/2020 5:04 PM, Ted Schnepf wrote:

Hello Everyone,

Gondola's are the forgotten railroad cars.  Very little had been written about them and there are so many variations.

I want to ID a mill type gon.  Its inside  length is 47' 6" and inside height about 3' 9". The sides have a straight sill (no fish belly) with 12 panels and 11 side stakes.  The fixed ends are dreadnought.  The car is riveted construction.

I started by looking at PRR books, but no match  (a G31D might be close).  Mr Kresse's  book about C&O gons show one of the correct general length, but has taller sides for use in coal hauling.  Thought about a USRA  mill gon, but doesn't seem to match.

In most freight car books, gons are very limited in space covered. 

Can anyone identify my roughly 49 foot, 11 side stake, riveted gondola?

Ted Schnepf
126 Will Scarlet,
Elgin, Ill. 60120


847=697-5353

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Gondola identification

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Guys;

The USRA 46'IL gons also had 12 ribs, not 11, IIRC.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Tuesday, January 7, 2020 9:40 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Gondola identification


The B&O had 47'1" IL TOFC flat cars (P-54) rebuilt from O-27 gondolas.

A PRR G31D is NOTHING like your description.



On 1/6/2020 5:04 PM, Ted Schnepf wrote:


Hello Everyone,


Gondola's are the forgotten railroad cars. Very little had been written about them and there are so many variations.


I want to ID a mill type gon. Its inside length is 47' 6" and inside height about 3' 9". The sides have a straight sill (no fish belly) with 12 panels and 11 side stakes. The fixed ends are dreadnought. The car is riveted construction.


I started by looking at PRR books, but no match (a G31D might be close). Mr Kresse's book about C&O gons show one of the correct general length, but has taller sides for use in coal hauling. Thought about a USRA mill gon, but doesn't seem to match.


In most freight car books, gons are very limited in space covered.


Can anyone identify my roughly 49 foot, 11 side stake, riveted gondola?


Ted Schnepf
126 Will Scarlet,
Elgin, Ill. 60120




847=697-5353


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Gondola identification

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Gang;

The gondola certainly is an unloved, disparaged, forlorn freight car. That is why I decided to do a book on PRR's fleet!

The PRR G34 class was a 46'IL, 11 rib/12 panel straight sidesill, fixed Dread end, riveted gon, but a photo would help. Does it look like these?

Thanks!

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Tuesday, January 7, 2020 9:40 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Gondola identification


The B&O had 47'1" IL TOFC flat cars (P-54) rebuilt from O-27 gondolas.

A PRR G31D is NOTHING like your description.



On 1/6/2020 5:04 PM, Ted Schnepf wrote:


Hello Everyone,


Gondola's are the forgotten railroad cars. Very little had been written about them and there are so many variations.


I want to ID a mill type gon. Its inside length is 47' 6" and inside height about 3' 9". The sides have a straight sill (no fish belly) with 12 panels and 11 side stakes. The fixed ends are dreadnought. The car is riveted construction.


I started by looking at PRR books, but no match (a G31D might be close). Mr Kresse's book about C&O gons show one of the correct general length, but has taller sides for use in coal hauling. Thought about a USRA mill gon, but doesn't seem to match.


In most freight car books, gons are very limited in space covered.


Can anyone identify my roughly 49 foot, 11 side stake, riveted gondola?


Ted Schnepf
126 Will Scarlet,
Elgin, Ill. 60120




847=697-5353


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Crane ID Help

Tim O'Connor
 


What happened to the rear nameplate casting (in the ID photo, not this one)? Both Burros and Brownhoists had it.



On 1/7/2020 10:56 AM, Douglas Harding wrote:

Here is a truck mounted crane with the same cab/body https://www.flickr.com/photos/67384646@N08/8108383830

One comment says the crane is a Browning .

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
Sent: Tuesday, January 7, 2020 7:36 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Crane ID Help

 

Friends,

 

Attached are three photos of an unnumbered crane owned by the Winchester & Western. All three shots were outside their shops at Gore, Virginia, and taken from around 1990s to sometime past 2000 (the color view), but the crane definitely fits our era.

 

Any thoughts on the builder and model. I've looked through my few books with crane photos and don't find a match. George Elwood's Fallen Flags site does not have a photo (yet!).


Yours Aye,

Garth Groff  🦆



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: 3-3-3 ends

Tim O'Connor
 



Ladders. I think so... can't find the kit right now.


On 1/7/2020 9:03 AM, Greg Martin via Groups.Io wrote:
Were the details molded on?

Greg Martin 



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
Date: 1/7/20 5:54 AM (GMT-08:00)
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] 3-3-3 ends


Speaking of 3-3-3 ends, what do folks think of the 3-3-3 separate end part that
came with the WALTHERS 50 foot single sheathed box car kits?

Tim O'Connor

======================================

On 1/5/2020 6:43 PM, Tom Madden via Groups.Io wrote:
On Sun, Jan 5, 2020 at 11:36 AM, Greg Martin wrote:
All,
 
In my collection I have a mold/master that Richard Hendrickson had made of a 3-3-3 end for West Rails. I will dig it out and see the spec's on it, but it will have to be after Cocoa Beach.
 
 
I have examples of many of Richard's WestRail parts. Here's the 3-3-3 end. It's pretty nice.

Tom Madden
 

Attachments:



--
Hey Boss,


Somehow I got deleted from this group in late May. I guess someone didn't like me. Jail is a lonely place.

Greg Martin 

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Crane ID Help

Douglas Harding
 

Here is a truck mounted crane with the same cab/body https://www.flickr.com/photos/67384646@N08/8108383830

One comment says the crane is a Browning .

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
Sent: Tuesday, January 7, 2020 7:36 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Crane ID Help

 

Friends,

 

Attached are three photos of an unnumbered crane owned by the Winchester & Western. All three shots were outside their shops at Gore, Virginia, and taken from around 1990s to sometime past 2000 (the color view), but the crane definitely fits our era.

 

Any thoughts on the builder and model. I've looked through my few books with crane photos and don't find a match. George Elwood's Fallen Flags site does not have a photo (yet!).


Yours Aye,

Garth Groff  🦆


Re: Gondola identification

Tim O'Connor
 


The B&O had 47'1" IL TOFC flat cars (P-54) rebuilt from O-27 gondolas.

A PRR G31D is NOTHING like your description.



On 1/6/2020 5:04 PM, Ted Schnepf wrote:
Hello Everyone,

Gondola's are the forgotten railroad cars.  Very little had been written about them and there are so many variations.

I want to ID a mill type gon.  Its inside  length is 47' 6" and inside height about 3' 9". The sides have a straight sill (no fish belly) with 12 panels and 11 side stakes.  The fixed ends are dreadnought.  The car is riveted construction.

I started by looking at PRR books, but no match  (a G31D might be close).  Mr Kresse's  book about C&O gons show one of the correct general length, but has taller sides for use in coal hauling.  Thought about a USRA  mill gon, but doesn't seem to match.

In most freight car books, gons are very limited in space covered. 

Can anyone identify my roughly 49 foot, 11 side stake, riveted gondola?

Ted Schnepf
126 Will Scarlet,
Elgin, Ill. 60120


847=697-5353

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Crane ID Help

Ted Schnepf
 

Hello,

I believe all Burro cranes only have two axles.  this crane has 4 axles. A guess would be Industrial Brownhoist.

Ted Schnepf
126 Will Scarlet,
Elgin, Ill. 60120


847=697-5353


On Tuesday, January 7, 2020, 07:50:08 AM CST, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:




Looks like a BURRO crane



Attached are three photos of an unnumbered crane owned by the Winchester & Western. All three shots were outside their shops at Gore, Virginia, and taken from around 1990s to sometime past 2000 (the color view), but the crane definitely fits our era.

Any thoughts on the builder and model. I've looked through my few books with crane photos and don't find a match. George Elwood's Fallen Flags site does not have a photo (yet!).

Yours Aye,

Garth Groff  🦆

Attachments:




Re: 3-3-3 ends

Greg Martin
 

Were the details molded on?

Greg Martin 



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
Date: 1/7/20 5:54 AM (GMT-08:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] 3-3-3 ends


Speaking of 3-3-3 ends, what do folks think of the 3-3-3 separate end part that
came with the WALTHERS 50 foot single sheathed box car kits?

Tim O'Connor

======================================

On 1/5/2020 6:43 PM, Tom Madden via Groups.Io wrote:

On Sun, Jan 5, 2020 at 11:36 AM, Greg Martin wrote:
All,
 
In my collection I have a mold/master that Richard Hendrickson had made of a 3-3-3 end for West Rails. I will dig it out and see the spec's on it, but it will have to be after Cocoa Beach.
 
 
I have examples of many of Richard's WestRail parts. Here's the 3-3-3 end. It's pretty nice.

Tom Madden
 

Attachments:



--
Hey Boss,


Somehow I got deleted from this group in late May. I guess someone didn't like me. Jail is a lonely place.

Greg Martin 


Re: 3-3-3 ends

Tim O'Connor
 


Speaking of 3-3-3 ends, what do folks think of the 3-3-3 separate end part that
came with the WALTHERS 50 foot single sheathed box car kits?

Tim O'Connor

======================================

On 1/5/2020 6:43 PM, Tom Madden via Groups.Io wrote:
On Sun, Jan 5, 2020 at 11:36 AM, Greg Martin wrote:
All,
 
In my collection I have a mold/master that Richard Hendrickson had made of a 3-3-3 end for West Rails. I will dig it out and see the spec's on it, but it will have to be after Cocoa Beach.
 
 
I have examples of many of Richard's WestRail parts. Here's the 3-3-3 end. It's pretty nice.

Tom Madden
 

Attachments:



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Crane ID Help

Tim O'Connor
 



Looks like a BURRO crane



Attached are three photos of an unnumbered crane owned by the Winchester & Western. All three shots were outside their shops at Gore, Virginia, and taken from around 1990s to sometime past 2000 (the color view), but the crane definitely fits our era.


Any thoughts on the builder and model. I've looked through my few books with crane photos and don't find a match. George Elwood's Fallen Flags site does not have a photo (yet!).

Yours Aye,

Garth Groff  🦆

Attachments:

_._,_._,_


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Crane ID Help

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Friends,

Attached are three photos of an unnumbered crane owned by the Winchester & Western. All three shots were outside their shops at Gore, Virginia, and taken from around 1990s to sometime past 2000 (the color view), but the crane definitely fits our era.

Any thoughts on the builder and model. I've looked through my few books with crane photos and don't find a match. George Elwood's Fallen Flags site does not have a photo (yet!).

Yours Aye,

Garth Groff  🦆


Re: Gondola identification

mel perry
 

a picture would be nice, so we would
know what you are talking about?
thanks 
mel perry

On Mon, Jan 6, 2020, 6:40 PM Ted Schnepf <railsunl@...> wrote:
Hi Ron,

I looked in Thompson's SP book and did not see a match.  The model does not have any drop doors.

Ted Schnepf
126 Will Scarlet,
Elgin, Ill. 60120


847=697-5353


On Monday, January 6, 2020, 07:14:40 PM CST, mopacfirst <ron.merrick@...> wrote:


Do you have a picture, or some other way we can see what you're describing?  As a total shot in the dark, there was a class of SP gons at about 48' that I think were straight sides.  I built a model of one, perhaps from Speedwitch, but both the model and my SP books are packed so I can't be more specific.

Ron Merrick


Re: Gondola identification

Ted Schnepf
 

Hi Ron,

I looked in Thompson's SP book and did not see a match.  The model does not have any drop doors.

Ted Schnepf
126 Will Scarlet,
Elgin, Ill. 60120


847=697-5353


On Monday, January 6, 2020, 07:14:40 PM CST, mopacfirst <ron.merrick@...> wrote:


Do you have a picture, or some other way we can see what you're describing?  As a total shot in the dark, there was a class of SP gons at about 48' that I think were straight sides.  I built a model of one, perhaps from Speedwitch, but both the model and my SP books are packed so I can't be more specific.

Ron Merrick


Re: Gondola identification

mopacfirst
 

Do you have a picture, or some other way we can see what you're describing?  As a total shot in the dark, there was a class of SP gons at about 48' that I think were straight sides.  I built a model of one, perhaps from Speedwitch, but both the model and my SP books are packed so I can't be more specific.

Ron Merrick


Re: Erie RR Notice On Stop-Off Cars

Dennis Storzek
 

On Mon, Jan 6, 2020 at 01:10 PM, Michael Aufderheide wrote:
I thought that was odd too; to suggest the first consignee would re-position the load.  What I have seen in other sources were bulkheads made from dunnage to separate the parts of the loads and keep them from shifting when the first were removed.
Although, since the first consignee had to call the local agent to apply new car seals, the railroad did have some leverage... don't re-stack or block the load, and we won't seal the car, leaving consignee No. 1 responsible. In reality, it was the shipper's responsibility to properly block/ bulkhead the load; this seems to indicate that the ERIE was having problems with this, and was trying to push it off on the consignees.

Dennis Storzek


Gondola identification

Ted Schnepf
 

Hello Everyone,

Gondola's are the forgotten railroad cars.  Very little had been written about them and there are so many variations.

I want to ID a mill type gon.  Its inside  length is 47' 6" and inside height about 3' 9". The sides have a straight sill (no fish belly) with 12 panels and 11 side stakes.  The fixed ends are dreadnought.  The car is riveted construction.

I started by looking at PRR books, but no match  (a G31D might be close).  Mr Kresse's  book about C&O gons show one of the correct general length, but has taller sides for use in coal hauling.  Thought about a USRA  mill gon, but doesn't seem to match.

In most freight car books, gons are very limited in space covered. 

Can anyone identify my roughly 49 foot, 11 side stake, riveted gondola?

Ted Schnepf
126 Will Scarlet,
Elgin, Ill. 60120


847=697-5353


Re: Erie RR Notice On Stop-Off Cars

 

Bruce,

I thought that was odd too; to suggest the first consignee would re-position the load.  What I have seen in other sources were bulkheads made from dunnage to separate the parts of the loads and keep them from shifting when the first were removed.

Regards,

Mike Aufderheide