Date   

Re: Shorty automobile car - 1913

lrkdbn
 

Are you sure the photo isn't from Dagenham in England? Do the cars have buffers on the corners of the end?
Larry King


Re: Looking for any info about Linde (CCBX) gondolas #801-815 and the containers. #801-815

Tim O'Connor
 


Except at the prices, a load of calcium carbide containers runs about
$250 or so.

A bit out of my price range.

Some of the items do look much more practical.


On 1/14/2020 7:08 PM, Elliot Courtney via Groups.Io wrote:
Steel mill modelers supply is producing these containers, they can be found on facebook or at http://steelmillmodelerssupply.com 

Elliot Courtney 

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Kits/Cars for Sale

lrkdbn
 

I would like to see your list
Larry King <lrkdbn@...>


Re: Help with a SP box car

Tim O'Connor
 

On 1/14/2020 7:03 PM, Peter Hall wrote:


http://steamerafreightcars.com/prototype/frtcars/protofrtcarsmain.html


Well, Tim, here’s one who hasn’t done that - can you share?

Thanks
Pete

On Jan 14, 2020, at 5:15 PM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


SP hardware options (doors, brakes, running boards) are listed in the Steam Era Freight Cars
spreadsheet compiled by Ted Culotta and Ed Hawkins. Every steam era modeler should have loaded
that onto their hard drive by now. :-)

Tim



On 1/14/2020 2:45 PM, Tony Thompson wrote:

Clark Propst wrote:

At CCB (Great event had a wonderful time) I purchased a mini-kit from 'National Scale Car' for a SP box car, series 83420-83739. Kit basics are doors, lower tracks and decals. The only photo of a SP car in the instructions was taken later in life with larger roadname stenciling and lowered placards. I want to model the car for the late 40s, so I need to know the placement of the placard and route card board on the Superior door. Also there are three lettering choices on the decal sheet. Large roadname, smaller roadname for between the stripes above and below the roadname and number, and just initials for above the numbers between the stripes. These cars were built in 11-40. Which option would be appropriate?  From what photos I have I'm leaning towards just initials. I really need a photo showing the doors tho...I've got it ready for paint except for the doors.

   Clark, I will send you a photo off-list. When built, they would have had just initials inside the stripes, but by the 1950s would have been repainted, doubtless with the spelled-out road name, adopted in 1946. So for the late '40s you can choose which you like. The cars were built with steel running boards, so you need to include that. I can tell which car numbers had which running boards, if you like.

Tony Thompson


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Looking for any info about Linde (CCBX) gondolas #801-815 and the containers. #801-815

Elliot Courtney
 

Steel mill modelers supply is producing these containers, they can be found on facebook or at http://steelmillmodelerssupply.com 

Elliot Courtney 


Re: UoK Permalinks

gary laakso
 

Bob, this car is a great find and by clicking on the picture and moving the picture around,  it appears that CNO&TP 1308, a ventilated boxcar is being repaired and between it and CNO&TP 1121, stringers are being prepared to build an underframe.

 


https://exploreuk.uky.edu/catalog/xt7sf7664q86_5878_1

 

Gary Laakso

Northwest of Mike Brock




Behind the UTLX Dry bulk tank car

gary laakso
 

The picture really expands nicely clicking on the picture a couple of times.  With that done, there are good views of two L&N 36 foot boxcars and a very early covered hopper. 

 

https://exploreuk.uky.edu/catalog/xt702v2c8t1s_2661_1 

 

Gary Laakso

Northwest of Mike Brock


Re: Looking for any info about Linde (CCBX) gondolas #801-815 and the containers. #801-815

RICH CHAPIN
 

I believe the attached Patent this is the calcium carbide container in that Linde Flat Car.

The Linde Car is not a LCL drop side gon, although I can't say what type it is.

What's the date of the container flat photo?


Re: General Question ... Was - Re: UoK Permalinks

Tim O'Connor
 

1929 to 1941 photos show FEWER distant cars because fewer cars were
circulating due to the depression. By the same token, home road cars were
more common in those years. After the depression ended, box cars were more
thoroughly mixed up again.

On 1/14/2020 5:45 PM, Jim Betz wrote:
Hi all,

  Bob's post with the UoK links prompts me to ask a general question about
freight car distribution.  This is not a criticism it is a request for enlightment.

  I have noticed that many of the photo links of earlier time frames - let's say
pre-WWII - that are taken at locations East of the Mississippi have
relatively few cars in them from West Coast roads.  (I am not referring to
pics devoted to a single car/road but rather to pics of trains/yards with a
variety of cars in them.)  And then, after WW-II the West Coast roads
start to show up in ever larger numbers as time passes.

  So my question is - was there a significant change in what products were
available, and where they were produced and where they were consumed
that caused this shift?
  If it wasn't the above ... what was the change?
  At least one answer is that most of the pics posted of East Coast trains
and yards are being posted (or linked) by members of this list who have
less interest in the West Coast.  I don't think that's true ... but it might be a
factor.  For example, the classic/oft referenced freight car distribution
study was done using freight trains in Wyoming ... might/wouldn't that
study have changed if the location was "some where on the East Coast"?

                      - Jim
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*


Re: Help with a SP box car

Tim O'Connor
 


SP hardware options (doors, brakes, running boards) are listed in the Steam Era Freight Cars
spreadsheet compiled by Ted Culotta and Ed Hawkins. Every steam era modeler should have loaded
that onto their hard drive by now. :-)

Tim



On 1/14/2020 2:45 PM, Tony Thompson wrote:
Clark Propst wrote:

At CCB (Great event had a wonderful time) I purchased a mini-kit from 'National Scale Car' for a SP box car, series 83420-83739. Kit basics are doors, lower tracks and decals. The only photo of a SP car in the instructions was taken later in life with larger roadname stenciling and lowered placards. I want to model the car for the late 40s, so I need to know the placement of the placard and route card board on the Superior door. Also there are three lettering choices on the decal sheet. Large roadname, smaller roadname for between the stripes above and below the roadname and number, and just initials for above the numbers between the stripes. These cars were built in 11-40. Which option would be appropriate?  From what photos I have I'm leaning towards just initials. I really need a photo showing the doors tho...I've got it ready for paint except for the doors.

   Clark, I will send you a photo off-list. When built, they would have had just initials inside the stripes, but by the 1950s would have been repainted, doubtless with the spelled-out road name, adopted in 1946. So for the late '40s you can choose which you like. The cars were built with steel running boards, so you need to include that. I can tell which car numbers had which running boards, if you like.

Tony Thompson


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Help with a SP box car

Tim O'Connor
 

Clark

National who ??

This is the B-50-20 represented by the IMWX (later Red Caboose) 1937 AAR box car. Many
cars by the late 1940's would have been relettered per the 1946 style with spelled out road name.

What is different about the NSC kit compared to the IMWX?


On 1/14/2020 2:34 PM, Clark Propst wrote:
At CCB (Great event had a wonderful time) I purchased a mini-kit from 'National Scale Car' for a SP box car, series 83420-83739. Kit basics are doors, lower tracks and decals. The only photo of a SP car in the instructions was taken later in life with larger roadname stenciling and lowered placards. I want to model the car for the late 40s, so I need to know the placement of the placard and route card board on the Superior door. Also there are three lettering choices on the decal sheet. Large roadname, smaller roadname for between the stripes above and below the roadname and number, and just initials for above the numbers between the stripes. These cars were built in 11-40. Which option would be appropriate?  From what photos I have I'm leaning towards just initials. I really need a photo showing the doors tho...I've got it ready for paint except for the doors.
CW Propst
_._,_._,_


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Caboose restrictions

Charlie Vlk
 

All-

This discussion came up originally on the CB&Q@groups.io list because someone came across a photo of an 1899 20FT Burlington NM-1 Bobber body that has been preserved at the Pioneer Village, albeit on a cobbled narrow gauge four wheel underframe.  As one of only fifteen built it survived but the more numerous (almost fifty) 25FT NM-2 cars that appeared in a 1954 Model Railroader Article (CB&Q General Arrangement Drawing attached) and have been copied in cast metal pencil sharpeners and smaller keychain fobs found in RR Museum Gift Shops are all gone!

The question came up what triggered the rapid demise of the Bobber type after a slew of them were built for some roads right around 1900?

A little bit of online research yields legislation and mentions thereof in trade journals state by state but here is a summary published in the Railway Age Gazette including The American Engineer Vol 47 1913 aka American Engineer The Railway Mechanical Monthly p87.

The summary covers the states of Arkansas, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Michigan, Minnesota, Montana, Nebraska, New York, North Dakota, Ohio, South Dakota, Virginia, Washington and Wisconsin.

The bulk of legislation regulating cabooses seems to have started around 1905 and most states had passed similar laws by 1920.

The regulations covered the strength,  number of wheels/trucks, length, size of platforms, doors, steps, hand brakes, air valves, cupola and other aspects of the car.   One key feature that especially impacted the continued use of Bobbers was strength requirements (steel underframe).

(the 2-4 designated two four wheel trucks, thus dooming pedestal mounted four wheel cars).

There were some exceptions for continued use of non-standard cars for transfer, terminal and construction train use which can explain some of the cars that survived into the 1930s and beyond.

Each railroad had its own genealogy concerning four wheel cabooses…for example the PRR used such cars well into the transition era while at the same time converting some cars to eight wheeled types. 

I have also noted that the Illinois Railroad and Warehouse Commission annual reports note requests and granting of temporary use of boxcars fitted out as cabooses detailed down to individual car numbers by railroad but I have not seen any mention of bobbers.

From references in the Brotherhood journals it is apparent that the legislation was driven by trainmen concerned about safety and comfort due to the carnage from on wood under fame cars with the advent of heavier power and trains and the lack of facilities on the smaller cars.

Not included in these discussions is the WWI and WWII “War Emergency” temporary boxcar conversions which many roads had which is yet another research topic.

Charlie Vlk

 


General Question ... Was - Re: UoK Permalinks

Jim Betz
 

Hi all,

  Bob's post with the UoK links prompts me to ask a general question about
freight car distribution.  This is not a criticism it is a request for enlightment.

  I have noticed that many of the photo links of earlier time frames - let's say
pre-WWII - that are taken at locations East of the Mississippi have 
relatively few cars in them from West Coast roads.  (I am not referring to
pics devoted to a single car/road but rather to pics of trains/yards with a
variety of cars in them.)  And then, after WW-II the West Coast roads 
start to show up in ever larger numbers as time passes.

  So my question is - was there a significant change in what products were
available, and where they were produced and where they were consumed
that caused this shift?
  If it wasn't the above ... what was the change?
  At least one answer is that most of the pics posted of East Coast trains
and yards are being posted (or linked) by members of this list who have
less interest in the West Coast.  I don't think that's true ... but it might be a
factor.  For example, the classic/oft referenced freight car distribution 
study was done using freight trains in Wyoming ... might/wouldn't that
study have changed if the location was "some where on the East Coast"?

                                                                                - Jim


Re: Looking for any info about Linde (CCBX) gondolas #801-815 and the containers. #801-815

mark_landgraf
 

OK - I tried to send an 11 mb attachment that was readable, however our group resized it to 225kb and made it mostly unreadable.
Jason or Garth, If you need the readable version email me at

mark_landgraf at yahoo dot com

Mark


On Tuesday, January 14, 2020, 5:08:56 PM EST, mark_landgraf via Groups.Io <mark_landgraf@...> wrote:


I looked around a little bit more and found a a gondola that was used by LCL corp. It doesn't appear to the exact car you are looking for but it may provide some guidance. It's a big drawing but I got it down to and emailable size.

Mark Landgraf


On Tuesday, January 14, 2020, 4:38:27 PM EST, mark_landgraf via Groups.Io <mark_landgraf@...> wrote:


Hi,

LCL Corp 1956 inventory shows that there were 216 containers were owned by Carbide & Carbon Chemical and were in assigned service to Union Carbide for Calcium Carbide serve. 

I have drawings of some of these containers, but my drawings are for a flat top version, not the peaked top version shown in your photo.

I attempted to attach them.

Mark Landgraf


On Tuesday, January 14, 2020, 4:02:04 PM EST, Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:


Jason Kliewer wrote:

None of the ORER data gives me much to scale off of vertically except the inside height.  But at 17", I'm thinking it has a wood floor or maybe some sort of brackets or bracing to hold the containers.
What I really need is a pictures that shows one of the containers out of the car so I can see the bracing.

      If this car is anything like the SP version, there are good interior photos in my volume on SP flat cars, Vol. 3 of the series, _Southern Pacific Freight Cars_ that was published by Signature Press.

Tony Thompson




Re: Looking for any info about Linde (CCBX) gondolas #801-815 and the containers. #801-815

mark_landgraf
 

I looked around a little bit more and found a a gondola that was used by LCL corp. It doesn't appear to the exact car you are looking for but it may provide some guidance. It's a big drawing but I got it down to and emailable size.

Mark Landgraf


On Tuesday, January 14, 2020, 4:38:27 PM EST, mark_landgraf via Groups.Io <mark_landgraf@...> wrote:


Hi,

LCL Corp 1956 inventory shows that there were 216 containers were owned by Carbide & Carbon Chemical and were in assigned service to Union Carbide for Calcium Carbide serve. 

I have drawings of some of these containers, but my drawings are for a flat top version, not the peaked top version shown in your photo.

I attempted to attach them.

Mark Landgraf


On Tuesday, January 14, 2020, 4:02:04 PM EST, Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:


Jason Kliewer wrote:

None of the ORER data gives me much to scale off of vertically except the inside height.  But at 17", I'm thinking it has a wood floor or maybe some sort of brackets or bracing to hold the containers.
What I really need is a pictures that shows one of the containers out of the car so I can see the bracing.

      If this car is anything like the SP version, there are good interior photos in my volume on SP flat cars, Vol. 3 of the series, _Southern Pacific Freight Cars_ that was published by Signature Press.

Tony Thompson




Re: UTLX Dry Bulk Tank Car 81014

Bruce Smith
 

Garth,

We discussed this car and the entire very cool scene back in December 2018.

and originally in February 2015

Lots of information in those two threads about the cars in the scene.

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

On Jan 14, 2020, at 2:08 PM, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...> wrote:

Friends,

I also exploring the U of KY site, and found this very interesting UTLX triple-dome tank car, apparently converted to, or built new as, a dry bulk car. The photo is dated 1934. I've seen builder's photos of similar cars, but this is the first I've seen in an in-service photo, and the first of a UTLX car. 


Yours Aye,

Garth Groff  🦆


Re: Looking for any info about Linde (CCBX) gondolas #801-815 and the containers. #801-815

mark_landgraf
 

Hi,

LCL Corp 1956 inventory shows that there were 216 containers were owned by Carbide & Carbon Chemical and were in assigned service to Union Carbide for Calcium Carbide serve. 

I have drawings of some of these containers, but my drawings are for a flat top version, not the peaked top version shown in your photo.

I attempted to attach them.

Mark Landgraf


On Tuesday, January 14, 2020, 4:02:04 PM EST, Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:


Jason Kliewer wrote:

None of the ORER data gives me much to scale off of vertically except the inside height.  But at 17", I'm thinking it has a wood floor or maybe some sort of brackets or bracing to hold the containers.
What I really need is a pictures that shows one of the containers out of the car so I can see the bracing.

      If this car is anything like the SP version, there are good interior photos in my volume on SP flat cars, Vol. 3 of the series, _Southern Pacific Freight Cars_ that was published by Signature Press.

Tony Thompson




UoK Permalinks

Bob Webber
 

While looking for something OTHER than Steam Era Freight Cars - I grabbed the permalinks for a variety of such cars for an index of sorts for my later perusal.  Some entertaining and educational - though mostly "early)" cars and perhaps of no interest to those on the list for a while seeing the regular posts - I sometimes have to pass over content on days when the traffic is heavy.... 

Note I did NOT search on rr freight cars, so it is possible some of these haven't shown up in previous searches....

MILW Box
https://exploreuk.uky.edu/catalog/xt7b5m625z73_6_1208
https://exploreuk.uky.edu/catalog/xt7b5m625z73_6_1209

C&O Ventilated Box
https://exploreuk.uky.edu/catalog/xt702v2c8t1s_275_1

C&EI Auto
https://exploreuk.uky.edu/catalog/xt702v2c8t1s_3476_1

L&N Boxes
https://exploreuk.uky.edu/catalog/xt702v2c8t1s_1057_1
https://exploreuk.uky.edu/catalog/xt702v2c8t1s_1059_1
https://exploreuk.uky.edu/catalog/xt702v2c8t1s_1054_1
https://exploreuk.uky.edu/catalog/xt702v2c8t1s_1053_1
https://exploreuk.uky.edu/catalog/xt702v2c8t1s_2392_1

SOU Box
https://exploreuk.uky.edu/catalog/xt7sf7664q86_6103_1

AGS Box
https://exploreuk.uky.edu/catalog/xt7sf7664q86_6101_1

Q&C Boxes
https://exploreuk.uky.edu/catalog/xt7sf7664q86_6107_1

Q&C Cars various
https://exploreuk.uky.edu/catalog/xt7sf7664q86_6117_1
& Ag display of cars - many more too
https://exploreuk.uky.edu/catalog/xt7prr1pgv6h_241_12

SOU Stock
https://exploreuk.uky.edu/catalog/xt7n8p5v980r_2786_1

Refrigerator Icing
https://exploreuk.uky.edu/catalog/xt7sf7664q86_6145_1
https://exploreuk.uky.edu/catalog/xt7sf7664q86_6148_1
https://exploreuk.uky.edu/catalog/xt7sf7664q86_6147_1
https://exploreuk.uky.edu/catalog/xt7sf7664q86_6146_1
https://exploreuk.uky.edu/catalog/xt7sf7664q86_6144_1

Misc
https://exploreuk.uky.edu/catalog/xt7sf7664q86_5869_1
https://exploreuk.uky.edu/catalog/xt7sf7664q86_6119_1
https://exploreuk.uky.edu/catalog/xt7sf7664q86_5878_1

Tanks - floating!
https://exploreuk.uky.edu/catalog/xt7nvx05xv47_4793_1

VGN Coal


https://exploreuk.uky.edu/catalog/xt7r7s7hr44k_1_2


Bob Webber


Re: UTLX Dry Bulk Tank Car 81014

 

Hello Garth and all,

This is a very fun shot, I believe I have seen a low res. version of this before. Couldn't make much out on that one.
Thanks for this post.

The car looks like a UTL type V 10k car ( 5 courses ) and it looks to be in it's second rebuilding.

Note different dome sizes and hand grab locations on domes + offset ladder on left side of car, Cool.
You can make out original ( old style ) ladder steps to right of center dome.

With all the L&N stuff in the shot, tank car in kaolin service maybe?

PFE reefer in background with enamel shield, separating / loosening from side.

Regards,
Dan Smith


Re: Looking for any info about Linde (CCBX) gondolas #801-815 and the containers. #801-815

Tony Thompson
 

Jason Kliewer wrote:

None of the ORER data gives me much to scale off of vertically except the inside height.  But at 17", I'm thinking it has a wood floor or maybe some sort of brackets or bracing to hold the containers.
What I really need is a pictures that shows one of the containers out of the car so I can see the bracing.

      If this car is anything like the SP version, there are good interior photos in my volume on SP flat cars, Vol. 3 of the series, _Southern Pacific Freight Cars_ that was published by Signature Press.

Tony Thompson



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