Date   

Re: Photo: Unloading Fruit From A Livestock Car

Doug Paasch
 

Looking at the photo closer, it appears to be a heavy paper liner.

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Doug Paasch via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2020 4:00 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Unloading Fruit From A Livestock Car

 

Nice photos Bob.  Thanks for a great tidbit of info regarding an alternate use of stock cars.  Regarding shipping empty cans in stock cars, its seems unlikely but I’d never say never.  As you can see in the third photo where men are unloading cans from a box car, there is a heavy canvas (or something) liner in the box car to keep the cans clean.  I would think a stock car would be very difficult to keep clean from dust, if nothing else, even with a canvas liner (although I know they used stock cars for shipping grain in a pinch by lining them with plastic sheeting; however, grain is expected to contain a certain amount of dirt content).  My dad worked for Continental Can Company and told me that any contamination, like dirt or dust, was sufficient grounds for the consignee to reject the cans, so the can plant was VERY careful about keeping cans clean in shipment.  That’s why I doubt that stock cars were ever used, just because of the wind factor and the difficulty in keeping dirt/dust from blowing into the car.  But if anyone comes across a picture of a stock car, lined sufficiently to carry cans, I’d sure like to see it.

 

Doug Paasch

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2020 10:56 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Unloading Fruit From A Livestock Car

 

Photo: Unloading Fruit From A Livestock Car

Circa 1920 photo of another use for a livestock car:

https://calisphere.org/item/6b72bf20ae08e9ac37dc6518e2fdb783/

Caption: "Workers from Richmond-Chase canning company unloading crates of fruit from railroad cars."

Use the slider to enlarge the photo.

The car belongs to Galveston, Harrisburg & San Antonio Railway, which I believe was a Southern Pacific subsidiary in Texas and Louisiana.

The car tag is almost readable and maybe reads "This car was ____ ____ and disinfected".

The Richmond-Chase Company became one of the primary fruit canning giants in Santa Clara County, CA. The company maintained four major packing and canning plants in San Jose, and had other agricultural operations in central California, as well as owning several orchards.

Plant, circa 1920:

http://digitalcollections.sjlibrary.org/cdm/ref/collection/sjsurc/id/21

Shows several boxcars (at least one SP) apparently loaded with empty cans.

Use the slider to enlarge the photo.

I can't determine if the SP livestock car has a load of cans.

Shipping ready-to-fill cans was not uncommon at one time:

https://www.loc.gov/pictures/item/2017782124/

Bob Chaparro

Moderator

Railway Bull Shippers Group

https://groups.io/g/RailwayBullShippersGroup


Re: RF&F Sand Hopper

James McDonald
 

Thanks for the photos, Garth. Very interesting.

Yes, David is correct. The RF&P’s small fleet of sand hoppers were used for transporting locomotive sand between the Kyanite source mine in Dillwyn, Va. to loco facilities at Acca and Potomac Yards.

The initial donor cars for the RF&P’s fleet of sand hoppers were taken seemingly at random from the line's pool of two bay open hoppers. Initially the series consisted of RFP 7001-7004, formerly cars RFP 3573, and RFP 3576-3578, which were outside post hoppers.

In 1972, as David said, the RF&P bought a series of offset 2 bay hoppers from the B&LE. Originally built in October of 1942, these cars were rehabbed by Ortner before sale to the RF&P. Six of them were taken to be rebuilt into covered hoppers. The ex-BLE cars were numbered 7001-7070* and sand hopper fleet was renumbered RFP 11 to 18.

It’s interesting that this car still rides on solid bearing trucks at this date. The RF&P began converting these cars to roller bearing trucks earlier in the 1970s using ones that came off of scrapped boxcars. Consequently, many of these sand hoppers wound up with the unusual configuration of black bodies with blue trucks.

All the best,

James
=-=-=
James McDonald
Greenbelt, MD.

* The series appears to have been numbered up to 7070, although it’s not clear the entire range was ever occupied. Different RF&P internal documents refer to different quantities.


Re: Photo: Unloading Fruit From A Livestock Car

Doug Paasch
 

Nice photos Bob.  Thanks for a great tidbit of info regarding an alternate use of stock cars.  Regarding shipping empty cans in stock cars, its seems unlikely but I’d never say never.  As you can see in the third photo where men are unloading cans from a box car, there is a heavy canvas (or something) liner in the box car to keep the cans clean.  I would think a stock car would be very difficult to keep clean from dust, if nothing else, even with a canvas liner (although I know they used stock cars for shipping grain in a pinch by lining them with plastic sheeting; however, grain is expected to contain a certain amount of dirt content).  My dad worked for Continental Can Company and told me that any contamination, like dirt or dust, was sufficient grounds for the consignee to reject the cans, so the can plant was VERY careful about keeping cans clean in shipment.  That’s why I doubt that stock cars were ever used, just because of the wind factor and the difficulty in keeping dirt/dust from blowing into the car.  But if anyone comes across a picture of a stock car, lined sufficiently to carry cans, I’d sure like to see it.

 

Doug Paasch

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2020 10:56 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Unloading Fruit From A Livestock Car

 

Photo: Unloading Fruit From A Livestock Car

Circa 1920 photo of another use for a livestock car:

https://calisphere.org/item/6b72bf20ae08e9ac37dc6518e2fdb783/

Caption: "Workers from Richmond-Chase canning company unloading crates of fruit from railroad cars."

Use the slider to enlarge the photo.

The car belongs to Galveston, Harrisburg & San Antonio Railway, which I believe was a Southern Pacific subsidiary in Texas and Louisiana.

The car tag is almost readable and maybe reads "This car was ____ ____ and disinfected".

The Richmond-Chase Company became one of the primary fruit canning giants in Santa Clara County, CA. The company maintained four major packing and canning plants in San Jose, and had other agricultural operations in central California, as well as owning several orchards.

Plant, circa 1920:

http://digitalcollections.sjlibrary.org/cdm/ref/collection/sjsurc/id/21

Shows several boxcars (at least one SP) apparently loaded with empty cans.

Use the slider to enlarge the photo.

I can't determine if the SP livestock car has a load of cans.

Shipping ready-to-fill cans was not uncommon at one time:

https://www.loc.gov/pictures/item/2017782124/

Bob Chaparro

Moderator

Railway Bull Shippers Group

https://groups.io/g/RailwayBullShippersGroup


Re: Plastic Pipe "T"s cored for .012 brass wire

Curt Fortenberry
 

 

I believe Trout Creek took over the brass parts from the old Tomalco line.  they had some. 


Curt Fortenberry 


Re: RF&F Sand Hopper

Richard Townsend
 

I just dug out my “Richmond, Fredericksburg & Potomac in Color” and there’s an almost square on shot of RF&P 14 on page 124.

On Jan 19, 2020, at 8:00 AM, Richard Townsend via Groups.Io <richtownsend=netscape.net@groups.io> wrote:

Mike Bradley and Jim Six had an article on building B&LE two-bay hoppers using the Athearn offset side hopper and MDC trucks. It was in the July 1990 Model Railroading.
On Jan 19, 2020, at 6:48 AM, David via Groups.Io <jaydeet2001=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

RF&P 16 was one of series 11-18, conversions of the series 7001-7062 70-ton twin hoppers RF&P bought secondhand from B&LE in 1972 to replace its steam-era hopper fleet.

David Thompson





Photo: LV Boxcar 72286

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: LV Boxcar 72286

Circa 1905 photo:

https://www.loc.gov/pictures/item/2016804745/

Click on one of the "View Larger" tabs to see this car in detail.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: Unloading Fruit From A Livestock Car

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Unloading Fruit From A Livestock Car

Circa 1920 photo of another use for a livestock car:

https://calisphere.org/item/6b72bf20ae08e9ac37dc6518e2fdb783/

Caption: "Workers from Richmond-Chase canning company unloading crates of fruit from railroad cars."

Use the slider to enlarge the photo.

The car belongs to Galveston, Harrisburg & San Antonio Railway, which I believe was a Southern Pacific subsidiary in Texas and Louisiana.

The car tag is almost readable and maybe reads "This car was ____ ____ and disinfected".

The Richmond-Chase Company became one of the primary fruit canning giants in Santa Clara County, CA. The company maintained four major packing and canning plants in San Jose, and had other agricultural operations in central California, as well as owning several orchards.

Plant, circa 1920:

http://digitalcollections.sjlibrary.org/cdm/ref/collection/sjsurc/id/21

Shows several boxcars (at least one SP) apparently loaded with empty cans.

Use the slider to enlarge the photo.

I can't determine if the SP livestock car has a load of cans.

Shipping ready-to-fill cans was not uncommon at one time:

https://www.loc.gov/pictures/item/2017782124/

Bob Chaparro

Moderator

Railway Bull Shippers Group

https://groups.io/g/RailwayBullShippersGroup


Re: Plastic Pipe "T"s cored for .012 brass wire

steve_wintner
 

Didn't someone on Shapeways make those?

A suggestion - if you solder .012 wire into .015 cored tees, the solder will tend to center the wires. Then you could proceed to bend, trim, etc?

Steve


Re: Intermountain 12 panel GN Vermillion box car details

Staffan Ehnbom
 

Hi Bill,
I don't know of any reference to mineral red running boards on vermilion cars. The mineral red trucks and underbody go with vermilion schemes with billboard Empire Builder and slant serif lettering.

Staffan

On Sun, Jan 19, 2020 at 4:43 PM Bill McCoy <wpmccoy@...> wrote:
Hi Steffan, Thanks. Did the mineral red trucks, running board and under body apply on both the Empire Builder and later billboard Great Northern lettering schemes?

Thanks for your help.

Bill McCoy 


Looking for Jim Eager's EMail

Bill McCoy
 

Anybody have the E Mail address for Jim Eager, Toronto, Jim is a great inter modal expert from ins inception.

Bill McCoy, Jax


Re: RF&F Sand Hopper

Richard Townsend
 

Mike Bradley and Jim Six had an article on building B&LE two-bay hoppers using the Athearn offset side hopper and MDC trucks. It was in the July 1990 Model Railroading.

On Jan 19, 2020, at 6:48 AM, David via Groups.Io <jaydeet2001=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

RF&P 16 was one of series 11-18, conversions of the series 7001-7062 70-ton twin hoppers RF&P bought secondhand from B&LE in 1972 to replace its steam-era hopper fleet.

David Thompson



Re: Intermountain 12 panel GN Vermillion box car details

Bill McCoy
 

Hi Steffan, Thanks. Did the mineral red trucks, running board and under body apply on both the Empire Builder and later billboard Great Northern lettering schemes?

Thanks for your help.

Bill McCoy 


RF&F Sand Hopper

David
 

RF&P 16 was one of series 11-18, conversions of the series 7001-7062 70-ton twin hoppers RF&P bought secondhand from B&LE in 1972 to replace its steam-era hopper fleet.

David Thompson


Re: Plastic Pipe "T"s cored for .012 brass wire

Thomas Evans
 

It seems to me that Utah Pacific once made these in brass, but not cored. - Tom


Re: Santa Fe Tank Car 100801 upgrade

Paul Doggett
 

Yes a really nice job Lester.
Paul Doggett.  England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 


On 19 Jan 2020, at 14:19, Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:


Great work, Lester! That's a neat tip on casting a tank car dome. Thanks for sharing!


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On January 18, 2020 at 8:02 PM Lester Breuer <rforailroad@...> wrote:

I have upgraded Santa Fe tank car 100801 with a resin cast dome and other details.  If you are interested as to why and how, photos and writeup of the upgrade process including paint and weathering are now available on my blog I have to share photos and writeup of modeling projects on my Minneapolis & Northland Railroad Company.   If you would like to take a look please do at the following link:

http://mnrailroadcab100.blogspot.com/

Lester Breuer


Re: Santa Fe Tank Car 100801 upgrade

Eric Hansmann
 

Great work, Lester! That's a neat tip on casting a tank car dome. Thanks for sharing!


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On January 18, 2020 at 8:02 PM Lester Breuer <rforailroad@...> wrote:

I have upgraded Santa Fe tank car 100801 with a resin cast dome and other details.  If you are interested as to why and how, photos and writeup of the upgrade process including paint and weathering are now available on my blog I have to share photos and writeup of modeling projects on my Minneapolis & Northland Railroad Company.   If you would like to take a look please do at the following link:

http://mnrailroadcab100.blogspot.com/

Lester Breuer


Plastic Pipe "T"s cored for .012 brass wire

Bill McCoy
 

I have a project that has a need for joining .012 wire in a "T". some time back there were plastic pipe joints but I can't remember who made them. MY LHS thinks it was Utah Pacific but there's nothing on their web site. Same for Plasti-Struct and Evergreen. Precision make a brass "T" cored for .015 but that may be a sloppy fit.This is a locomotive (SD9) project and some brake piping details on freight cars...
Any help on where to find them will be appreciated.  

Bill McCoy, Jax


Re: Intermountain 12 panel GN Vermillion box car details

Staffan Ehnbom
 

The photo of GN18108 on Fallen Flags shows remains of vermilion paint on the roof.


On Sat, Jan 18, 2020 at 12:58 AM Todd Sullivan via Groups.Io <sullivant41=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi Bill,

The Steam Era Freight Cars website is your friend.  See the files for different 'species' of steel boxcars created by Ed Hawkins, Ted Culotta and others, specifically the files for 10' Postwar Boxcars for these GN cars.

I believe the Intermountain kit represents GN 10900-11874 and 18000-19499, all build at St. Cloud Shops in 1948-49.  Handbrakes were Ajax or Universal, running boards were Morton, Apex or Gypsum, depending on the car series (there were about 7 series), and I think the running boards were painted Mineral Red and the trucks and underframe were black when new.  The doors also varied by series.  There are lots of online photo sources: Fallen Flags and Google images are just two.  Using Google images will get you to other sites.

Todd Sullivan.


Re: Intermountain 12 panel GN Vermillion box car details

Staffan Ehnbom
 

Vermilion GN cars had mineral red trucks and underbody.

Staffan Ehnbom

On Sat, Jan 18, 2020 at 12:58 AM Todd Sullivan via Groups.Io <sullivant41=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi Bill,

The Steam Era Freight Cars website is your friend.  See the files for different 'species' of steel boxcars created by Ed Hawkins, Ted Culotta and others, specifically the files for 10' Postwar Boxcars for these GN cars.

I believe the Intermountain kit represents GN 10900-11874 and 18000-19499, all build at St. Cloud Shops in 1948-49.  Handbrakes were Ajax or Universal, running boards were Morton, Apex or Gypsum, depending on the car series (there were about 7 series), and I think the running boards were painted Mineral Red and the trucks and underframe were black when new.  The doors also varied by series.  There are lots of online photo sources: Fallen Flags and Google images are just two.  Using Google images will get you to other sites.

Todd Sullivan.


RF&F Sand Hopper

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Friends,

I would like to offer two photos of a most unusual RF&P covered hopper for your approval and commentary. The car is RF&P 14, apparently used in company sand service. While numbered in the RF&P maintenance fleet, it still was obviously sent off line.

This car is an apparent conversion of a standard open hopper. In 1954 the RF&P had 96 hoppers from three groups in revenue service. While I can't be sure, it is probably a conversion of one of these cars. Note the most unusual trucks, that appear to have outside brake hangers. AFAIK from the photo, the hangers are not used, but they may point to the origins of this car if it was bought used by the RF&P. Can any of you comment upon the origin of the car, and its possible conversion date? Were there any more of these cars? What are these trucks called?

I shot the car around 1987 on the Dixon Sand Co. loading track in Dillwyn, Virginia. Dixon Sand was a Kyanite Corporation subsidiary, the sand being a by-product of their mining operation on near-by Willis Mountain (ore and sand both delivered to the railhead by truck). Apparently Dixon sold sand to the RF&P and the Chessie System for locomotives. Dillwyn was at the end of the former C&O Buckingham Subdivision, now the Buckingham Branch Railroad. The spur and loader are still there, but have not been active for many years.

My apologies for the oblique angle on the car. As I remember it, there was a steep drop off to my left, and I couldn't get a straight view of the whole car side. Except for the truck photo, all shots I took of  the various cars on this spur over the years are from approximately the same spot, a grade crossing.

Yours Aye,

Mungo Napier, Laird of Mallard Lodge  🦆

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