Date   

Re: PRR G22 question

Nelson Moyer
 

The Westerfield kit builds either the G22 or G22B, but not the drop end G22A.Decals for both the G22 and G22B were in my kit.  I’ll leave it to the PRR faithful to provide the differences, since my documentation isn’t immediately available. The kit I built was one of the original brittle resin kits. Hopefully you have one of the new kits.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Stic Harris
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 8:10 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] PRR G22 question

 

Good morning smart freight car folk,

 

I know we've had previous discussion on the PRR G22 flat cars, but I've been unable to find an answer to my question.

 

Besides the trucks, which I know were upgraded, and the stencil indicating the type and capacity of the car, is there any structural or visual difference between the original G22 gondola and the G22B gondola?

 

That is, if I change the trucks and decals, can I create an accurate G22B from a G22 model?

 

Thanks in advance for any information,

 

Stic Harris

 

--

 

 

- Stic


PRR G22 question

Stic Harris
 

Good morning smart freight car folk,

I know we've had previous discussion on the PRR G22 flat cars, but I've been unable to find an answer to my question.

Besides the trucks, which I know were upgraded, and the stencil indicating the type and capacity of the car, is there any structural or visual difference between the original G22 gondola and the G22B gondola?

That is, if I change the trucks and decals, can I create an accurate G22B from a G22 model?

Thanks in advance for any information,

Stic Harris

--


- Stic


Re: Photo: Replacement siding on a reefer

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Friends,

Also take note of the CNR eight-hatch reefer in the background.

Yours Aye,

Mungo Napier, Laird of Mallard Lodge  🦆


On Mon, Jan 20, 2020 at 9:36 PM Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...> wrote:
Also a new ladder, the result of a classic "cornering" collision, I'm sure.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/mit-libraries/3441330455/in/album-72157614966285159/

Dennis Storzek


Re: ARA / AAR Standard Letters and Figures for Freight Car Marking

Bob Webber
 

I admittedly haven't paid much attention.  But... The Pullman library has complete sets of lettering or stenciling drawings for a lot of cars from 1890s on. As does the acf collection in st Louis.

I doubt you're going to see a standard set aside from by customer.  If there were a common set, why would so many cars have their own specifications and drawing sets.  Yes, some do reference standard drawings, but they are railroad specific standards, not aar, ncb, Ara or other organization.  There are common usra and USA sets.

That is always a frustration... The drawing simply says per railway standards.   Having said that, there are brake, cylinder, truck, capy and other stencil drawings by railroad car, or by railroad... And specifies type of car(s) and lot.  

Smaller roads are more likely to see full sets, systems typically refer to system standards,  large railroads a combination.

I recall the data sets by champ... Rr Roman data.  But inevitably, applying them to cars was a compromise as the set wasn't quite right in some dimension compared to photos.   Or the car was already compromised... Board width being somewhat inaccurate.



Re: ARA / AAR Standard Letters and Figures for Freight Car Marking

Dave Parker
 

Charlie:

I would be as happy as anybody to see a complete character set unearthed, but I remain dubious that one exists -- at least for the MCB/ARA years (the AAR is in the future for me).  There are several reasons for this. Here is the relevant text from the Special Ballot in the 1906 MCB Proceedings (pp. 547-548):



On the one hand, while "until a full set of drawings could be submitted" is suggestive, we can't know what is meant by "full", nor whether this objective was actually ever achieved.

On the other, the language in (1) "of the designs" can be interpreted to mean in the general style shown in the attached drawing.  Unfortunately, as is often the case with Google digitizations, the drawing itself cannot be consulted here.  But, in the adopted Recommended Practice on page 660, we are referred to Sheet M going forward.

In 1911, the practice was elevated to Standard, and the relevant drawing became Sheet 27.  By the time of the 1918 MCB Drawings of  Standards and Recommended Practices (which should be the gold standard here), the drawing had been renumbered to 26B.  It, like every iteration of this drawing that I can track down, shows just the three letters (M,C,B) and three numerals (2,7, 8).

My take is that the primary intent of the 1906 ballot measure was (1) to push every railroad towards a similar, but not identical, typeface, i.e., a Roman one exemplified by the drawing of just six characters, and (2), to standardize the lettering sizes at 1,2,4,7, and 9 inches, and to specify what size to use where on the car.  Until someone can produce an actual drawing showing all 36 alphanumeric characters, that is the only explanation that is supported by the available evidence (IMO).

--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Photo: Replacement siding on a reefer

Dennis Storzek
 

Also a new ladder, the result of a classic "cornering" collision, I'm sure.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/mit-libraries/3441330455/in/album-72157614966285159/

Dennis Storzek


Photo: PRR Boxcar 104817

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: PRR Boxcar 104817

Circa 1956 photo:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/mit-libraries/3442157274/in/album-72157614966285159/

Not anything special. Just a nod to you PRR fans.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Branchline Blueprint 50-foot variations

rdgbuff56
 

I have added the original Branchline Freight Catalog to page 5 of file section of MFCL@....

Photos of all the types and roadnames.

Francis A. Pehowic, Jr.

On Monday, January 20, 2020, 8:15:10 AM EST, Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:


[Edited Message Follows]

I need a reminder please regarding the Branchline Blueprint 50-foot boxcars in terms of the variations. I know they produced an 8-foot door car and an insulated car w/a sliding flush door. Note, I am not interested in the more modern cars they did, only the ones that would have the Improved Dreadnaught end variations.

Did they do a 9-foot door or any double door examples? Did the do any with a lower straight side sill?

Thank you
Bill Welch


Re: ARA / AAR Standard Letters and Figures for Freight Car Marking

Tony Thompson
 

Charlie Vlk wrote:

I misunderstood the point of the blog….I thought the “AAR” lettering was as adopted by the SP and the lettering below was a further variation.
I would be interested in seeing ARA / MCB full sets of characters and numbers and believe that they existed even if they did not appear in the Annual Proceedings.  As far as I am aware no other “Railroad Roman” freight car stencil drawings have surfaced and the L&P drawings refer to “ARA Standard” lettering without any drawing number reference.  

    I have seen one reference to "AAR Manual" for the complete character set drawing. I have never seen any edition of the Manual, but Guy Wilber may have one -- or know of one.

Tony Thompson




Re: ARA / AAR Standard Letters and Figures for Freight Car Marking

Charlie Vlk
 

All-

I misunderstood the point of the blog….I thought the “AAR” lettering was as adopted by the SP and the lettering below was a further variation.

I would be interested in seeing ARA / MCB full sets of characters and numbers and believe that they existed even if they did not appear in the Annual Proceedings.  As far as I am aware no other “Railroad Roman” freight car stencil drawings have surfaced and the L&P drawings refer to “ARA Standard” lettering without any drawing number reference.  There are, however, two distinctly different in stroke and weight CB&Q “Extended Railroad Roman” styles for passenger equipment per photos but again no drawings have surfaced beyond a  few drawing references.   

I have attached a jpg of the letters that I prepared from CB&Q / ARA drawings along with a sample of one of the original CB&Q drawings.

Charlie Vlk

 

And, of course, there were various interpretations and variations to fit particular applications of the “standard”.

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dave Parker via Groups.Io
Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2020 7:34 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] ARA / AAR Standard Letters and Figures for Freight Car Marking

 

I am not sure that I am completely following the discussion here, but it is a topic that has come up before.  At the risk of repeating myself, the "standard" MCB/ARA/AAR Roman letter diagram dates to 1906.  I have seen it reproduced a number of time in several places, and it always contains just three letters (M,C,B) and three numerals (2,7,8).  If anybody as ever seen a more comprehensive character set, I would be glad to learn of it.  But, based on what I have seen, no railroad could have actually conformed to standardized MCB/ARA/AAR lettering because it didn't exist  -- beyond those six example characters that seem only to convey a rather general style of lettering that was adopted as an industry standard.
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: Photo: Unloading Fruit From A Livestock Car

Doug Paasch
 

Thanks for sharing that Lee. So the paper lining was sufficient to keep the cans clean even in a stock car?

Doug Paasch

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Lee Thwaits
Sent: Monday, January 20, 2020 10:09 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Unloading Fruit From A Livestock Car

In 40's & at least early 50's cans were hauled in bulk in stock cars from can co. ( in San Jose?) to Prattlow cannery in Santa Clara. Cars were steam cleaned first then lined with heavy craft paper.
Lee Thwaits


Re: Photo: LV Boxcar 72286

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 


Hi Eric, Bud, and List Members,
 
There were 49 cars listed in this series in the 05-1926 ORER.
 
There were still two (2) cars listed in this series in the 12-1930 ORER.
 
Claus Schlund
 
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, January 20, 2020 11:59 AM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: LV Boxcar 72286

LV 80212 was part of the 80001-80400 series of 34-foot IL boxcars. Only 48 were listed in the October 1926 ORER.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bud Rindfleisch
Sent: Monday, January 20, 2020 8:28 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: LV Boxcar 72286

 

I have this photo a friend gave me a long time ago. An early version of the LV's "wrongway door" boxcar.

    Bud Rindfleisch


Re: Matching Colors

Charlie Vlk
 

All-

The CB&Q Aurora, Illinois Testing Laboratories were doing paint sample boards like those in the 1880s.   They had to rely on sunlight and snow/rain/ice to weather them.   I wonder if that is why they were called “Q-Panels”???

Charlie Vlk

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jerome (Jerry) Albin
Sent: Monday, January 20, 2020 1:20 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Matching Colors

 

The technician is not matching paint colors. He is examining painted "Q-Panels" that have been cycled through a UV Weatherometer test machine and/or a salt spray cabinet. The tests accelerate fade and wear characteristics of paint samples.  Regards Jerry Albin


Bx-34 Decals

John Barry
 

I failed to catch a layout error on the S&T decals.  The slogans for cars 140911 and 140317 are on the other cars sheet.  317 should be El Capitan and 911 should be Super Chief.

Limited additional decals are available for $5 for the twelve car numbers included in the project.  Each decal does one complete car and comes with reweigh dates to cover from New 1940 to 1953.  Repack and brake test decals are also provided along with a spare herald and data block.  Contact me directly at NorthBayLines at ATT dot NET.  

John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736


Re: Matching Colors

Jerome (Jerry) Albin
 

The technician is not matching paint colors. He is examining painted "Q-Panels" that have been cycled through a UV Weatherometer test machine and/or a salt spray cabinet. The tests accelerate fade and wear characteristics of paint samples.  Regards Jerry Albin


Shake N Take 2020 files uploaded to shake-n-take@groups.io

John Barry
 

Gents,

I have uploaded the presentation and copies of the Santa Fe Bx-34 drawings to the Shake_N_Take files.  

John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736


On Monday, January 20, 2020, 01:53:25 PM EST, shake-n-take@groups.io Notification <shake-n-take+notification@groups.io> wrote:


Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that the following files have been uploaded to the Files area of the shake-n-take@groups.io group.

Uploaded By: John Barry <northbaylines@...>

Description:
Presentation from the 2020 Bx-34 project

Cheers,
The Groups.io Team


Re: Branchline Blueprint 50-foot variations

Ed Hawkins
 



On Jan 20, 2020, at 7:12 AM, Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:

I need a reminder please regarding the Branchline Blueprint 50-foot boxcars in terms of the variations. I know they produced an 8-foot door car and an insulated car w/a sliding flush door. Note, I am not interested in the more modern cars they did, only the ones that would have the Improved Dreadnaught end variations.

Did they do a 9-foot door or any double door examples? Did the do any with a lower straight side sill?

Bill,
Branchline Trains (now Atlas) offered HO 50’ AAR box & auto car kits as follows with the side arrangement defined as riveted or welded & the number of side sheets to the left & right of the door opening, respectively.

1000-series: 8’ door openings, riveted 8/8 side sheets
1100-series: 15’ door openings, riveted 5/8 side sheets
1900-series: 9’ door openings, welded 8/8 side sheets
2000-series: 9’ door openings, riveted 8/8 side sheets

The above models came with three configurations of side sill to bolster, crosstie & door reinforcement connections that varied depending on the railroad. The three options of side sill connections were molded integral to the body.

a. Fish-belly from bolster to bolster
b. Straight from bolster to bolster
c. Separate bolster, crosstie & door reinforcement connections (i.e., “tabbed”)

While these three options were generally accurate for many prototype cars, others had straight side sill reinforcements extending from end to end (Northern Pacific one example) that Branchline did not offer & thus require modification by the modeler. 

Branchline also offered two versions of 50’ insulated box cars (RB/RBL).

1700-series: Sliding-flush doors for 8’ openings, riveted 8/8 side sheets
1800-series: Sliding-flush doors for 8’ openings, 4-panel riveted side sheets for 14 side posts & horizontal seams

The 1800-series models represented GARX prototype cars having Duryea underframes. However, the Branchline models came with the same conventional AAR underframe provided in other 50’ box car kits. Recall Jack Spencer’s RP CYC Volume 15 article on modifying one of these models with Duryea underframe.

Regards,
Ed Hawkins




Re: Photo: Unloading Fruit From A Livestock Car

Lee Thwaits
 

In 40's & at least early 50's cans were hauled in bulk in stock cars from can co. ( in San Jose?) to Prattlow cannery in Santa Clara.  Cars were steam cleaned first then lined with heavy craft paper.
Lee Thwaits


Re: Photo: LV Boxcar 72286

Eric Hansmann
 

LV 80212 was part of the 80001-80400 series of 34-foot IL boxcars. Only 48 were listed in the October 1926 ORER.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bud Rindfleisch
Sent: Monday, January 20, 2020 8:28 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: LV Boxcar 72286

 

I have this photo a friend gave me a long time ago. An early version of the LV's "wrongway door" boxcar.

    Bud Rindfleisch


Re: Photo: Unloading Fruit From A Livestock Car

Jim Betz
 

Hi,
  I worked in a salmon cannery in Anacortes, Wa. in the late 50's/early 60's.
We received box car loads of cans that were packed into very large
cardboard boxes that were on top of a pallet.  The dimensions of the 
box were the size of the pallet on the bottom and about 4 or 5 feet tall.
The pallets were loaded into the box cars with fork lifts and were stacked
two pallets high and pretty much filling the entire box car.  They were
moved to the can loft above and along one side of the cannery and 
stored in long lines on either side of a central aisle.  During canning
operations the pallets of cans were moved to a machine in the loft
and slid off the pallet from the fork lift.  I do not remember if the cans
were unloaded from the box bottom or top (tilted) by the machine -
but that machine fed the can line directly from the can loft to both
canning lines which were run to the actual canning machine and
rammed the salmon into the cans.  The movement of the cans was
done in long open "tubes" similar to current automated canning.  I
can probably find pics of the can loft part of the operation if needed.
                                                                                         - Jim