Date   
Re: Branchline Blueprint 50-foot variations

Bill Welch
 

Thanks for your assistance to everyone that responded here and to my personal email.

Bill Welch

USRA week design (was PRR G22 question)

Robert kirkham
 

Good to know. Thanks Eldon.

Raises a more general question for me: I understood USRA cars were viewed negatively for
a) political issues (company having little to no say),
b) and not based on various railway favourite designs.

But I hadn't picked up on it being a weak design. So with the gon's weak design: was that realized later with experience? Or perceived at the get go. I wonder if someone has done a retirement of those gons spreadsheet/summary?

Rob

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 12:38 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR G22 question

Rob;

I'm enjoying reading this thread, but two questions come to mind:- when they increase capacity by changing the trucks . . . doesn't that mean the car frame and body are being subjected to higher loads? Is there a sense that cars with the heavier trucks end up wearing out faster than cars with the lower capacity trucks?
Yes, and yes. I read some correspondence on this, and PRR was cognizant of wearing cars out earlier, but went with it where they thought the car capable of taking it. Note that PRR did NOT do this on their USRA gons, a weak design.

- were cars with the containers free roaming - as in across the continent - or prone to PRR turf? I've not seen a photo of one in the Frost collection (West Coast Canada) for example.
They were generally in dedicated service from a cement plant to cement user. A dolomite facility to a steel mill; like that.

Elden Gatwood





-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 10:27 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR G22 question

My pleasure, Stic.

No one does the G22B per se, it is up to you to dress it up like one!

Here are the DB4 and HB1A containers. The Westy containers are HB1A and HB4. A nice shot in color, in SK P&L (like mine).

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Stic Harris
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 12:24 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR G22 question

Thank you all!
Much appreciate the information. And Elden, these photos are gold.
I actually have a set of the Westerfield containers to build and would like to put them in a G22B, so no one will know if my gondola happens to have/not have grates on the bottom.
My understanding is that Westerfield no longer makes the G22s. I've seen several G22s on eBay, but no G22Bs.
So planning on building a G22 and replacing the trucks/stencils with my containers covering the bottom.

Again, many thanks for the group knowledge,

Stic



On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 10:33 AM Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@... <mailto:elden.j.gatwood@...> > wrote:


Guys;

I believe PRR did a small number of G22B with mesh flooring to minimize the effects of cement build up, but they did not do this on most or all G22B. It is a cool look, but not necessary on your models. They also did an interior that included container "dunnage" to keep the containers in place, like so:

Here are some other container photos.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> ] On Behalf Of Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 9:57 AM
To: STMFC <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> >
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR G22 question

Hi Bruce, Nelson, Stic, and List Members,


I was under the impression that the G22b had openings in the gon floor to allow debris to fall to the tracks, making them more suitable for container service. This can be seen in the images of the Traincat G22b kit linked below.

BlockedBlockedhttp://Blockedwww.traincat2.com/d_gondola.htm <BlockedBlockedhttp://www.traincat2.com/d_gondola.htm>

Am I in error? Is the Traincat kit in error?


Claus Schlund



----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce Smith <mailto:@smithbf <mailto:@smithbf> >
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <mailto:main@realstmfc.groups.io> <mailto:main@realstmfc.groups.io <mailto:main@realstmfc.groups.io> >
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 9:43 AM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR G22 question

Stic,

Correct. I believe that the only visible difference is are the 100 ton trucks on the G22B versus the 70 ton Crown trucks on the other subclasses, and, of course, the CAPY, LT WT, and LD LMT stencils, in addition to the subclass stencil.


Regards

Bruce




Bruce F. Smith

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."





On Jan 21, 2020, at 8:10 AM, Stic Harris <sticdvm@... <mailto:sticdvm@...> <mailto:sticdvm@... <mailto:sticdvm@...> > > wrote:

Good morning smart freight car folk,

I know we've had previous discussion on the PRR G22 flat cars, but I've been unable to find an answer to my question.

Besides the trucks, which I know were upgraded, and the stencil indicating the type and capacity of the car, is there any structural or visual difference between the original G22 gondola and the G22B gondola?

That is, if I change the trucks and decals, can I create an accurate G22B from a G22 model?

Thanks in advance for any information,

Stic Harris


--



- Stic










--



- Stic

Re: PRR G22 question

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Gang;

Here are some more "Crown" trucks, from different mfgs, and for different purposes.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 1:48 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR G22 question

So, I think there were many trucks on the G22, and yes, one of them looks like an extra beefy 6-spring 2D-F8, but like REALLY beefy. There is also a 100-ton Crown, which you see on some G22B. The 70-ton version of G22 does indeed have a 70-ton Crown, and also another 70-ton truck that also looks like a 2D-f8. It's complicated!

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bruce Smith
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 1:31 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR G22 question

Elden,

Maybe I’m getting it backwards, but I thought that the 100 ton truck on the G22B looked like the classic PRR 2D-F8 or AAR Type Y and the 70 ton truck on the G22 is indeed the PRR Crown (Bowser).

Duplicating that 100 ton truck is a challenge, because it has that deep drop. Picking my poison, I used the 50 ton 2D-P8 because of the side frame shape. Too light, not enough springs, but clearly different from the 70 ton crown on the G22.

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


On Jan 21, 2020, at 12:20 PM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@... <mailto:elden.j.gatwood@...> > wrote:

Bill;

I have not seen one. The closest is the 70-ton Crown from Bowser.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of WILLIAM PARDIE
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 1:04 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR G22 question

Is there a correct 100 ton truck available in HO?

Bill Pardie

Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR G22 question

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Rob;

I'm enjoying reading this thread, but two questions come to mind:- when they increase capacity by changing the trucks . . . doesn't that mean the car frame and body are being subjected to higher loads? Is there a sense that cars with the heavier trucks end up wearing out faster than cars with the lower capacity trucks?
Yes, and yes. I read some correspondence on this, and PRR was cognizant of wearing cars out earlier, but went with it where they thought the car capable of taking it. Note that PRR did NOT do this on their USRA gons, a weak design.

- were cars with the containers free roaming - as in across the continent - or prone to PRR turf? I've not seen a photo of one in the Frost collection (West Coast Canada) for example.
They were generally in dedicated service from a cement plant to cement user. A dolomite facility to a steel mill; like that.

Elden Gatwood





-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 10:27 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR G22 question

My pleasure, Stic.

No one does the G22B per se, it is up to you to dress it up like one!

Here are the DB4 and HB1A containers. The Westy containers are HB1A and HB4. A nice shot in color, in SK P&L (like mine).

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Stic Harris
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 12:24 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR G22 question

Thank you all!
Much appreciate the information. And Elden, these photos are gold.
I actually have a set of the Westerfield containers to build and would like to put them in a G22B, so no one will know if my gondola happens to have/not have grates on the bottom.
My understanding is that Westerfield no longer makes the G22s. I've seen several G22s on eBay, but no G22Bs.
So planning on building a G22 and replacing the trucks/stencils with my containers covering the bottom.

Again, many thanks for the group knowledge,

Stic



On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 10:33 AM Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@... <mailto:elden.j.gatwood@...> > wrote:


Guys;

I believe PRR did a small number of G22B with mesh flooring to minimize the effects of cement build up, but they did not do this on most or all G22B. It is a cool look, but not necessary on your models. They also did an interior that included container "dunnage" to keep the containers in place, like so:

Here are some other container photos.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> ] On Behalf Of Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 9:57 AM
To: STMFC <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> >
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR G22 question

Hi Bruce, Nelson, Stic, and List Members,


I was under the impression that the G22b had openings in the gon floor to allow debris to fall to the tracks, making them more suitable for container service. This can be seen in the images of the Traincat G22b kit linked below.

BlockedBlockedhttp://Blockedwww.traincat2.com/d_gondola.htm <BlockedBlockedhttp://www.traincat2.com/d_gondola.htm>

Am I in error? Is the Traincat kit in error?


Claus Schlund



----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce Smith <mailto:@smithbf <mailto:@smithbf> >
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <mailto:main@realstmfc.groups.io> <mailto:main@realstmfc.groups.io <mailto:main@realstmfc.groups.io> >
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 9:43 AM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR G22 question

Stic,

Correct. I believe that the only visible difference is are the 100 ton trucks on the G22B versus the 70 ton Crown trucks on the other subclasses, and, of course, the CAPY, LT WT, and LD LMT stencils, in addition to the subclass stencil.


Regards

Bruce




Bruce F. Smith

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."





On Jan 21, 2020, at 8:10 AM, Stic Harris <sticdvm@... <mailto:sticdvm@...> <mailto:sticdvm@... <mailto:sticdvm@...> > > wrote:

Good morning smart freight car folk,

I know we've had previous discussion on the PRR G22 flat cars, but I've been unable to find an answer to my question.

Besides the trucks, which I know were upgraded, and the stencil indicating the type and capacity of the car, is there any structural or visual difference between the original G22 gondola and the G22B gondola?

That is, if I change the trucks and decals, can I create an accurate G22B from a G22 model?

Thanks in advance for any information,

Stic Harris


--



- Stic










--



- Stic

Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR G22 question

Tim O'Connor
 

A friend of mine has an unpainted G22B brass model with the open mesh floor that he wants
to sell. I think Railworks imported them. Just FYI.

Tim O'Connor

On 1/21/2020 10:27 AM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD wrote:
Guys;

I believe PRR did a small number of G22B with mesh flooring to minimize the effects of cement build up, but they did not do this on most or all G22B. It is a cool look, but not necessary on your models. They also did an interior that included container "dunnage" to keep the containers in place, like so:

Here are some other container photos.

Elden Gatwood


Attachments:
PRR G22B 353415 interior locking.jpg: https://RealSTMFC.groups.io/g/main/attachment/169440/0
PRR G22B 775416 HB2 containers 1941 Hagley.jpg: https://RealSTMFC.groups.io/g/main/attachment/169440/1
PRR G22B CR#547367 Altoona PA 10-79 RJ Burg #735.jpg: https://RealSTMFC.groups.io/g/main/attachment/169440/2
PRR G22B HB4 container IMG_8918.jpg: https://RealSTMFC.groups.io/g/main/attachment/169440/3
PRR G22B HB4 container IMG_8920.jpg: https://RealSTMFC.groups.io/g/main/attachment/169440/4
PRR G22B HB4 container IMG_8921.jpg: https://RealSTMFC.groups.io/g/main/attachment/169440/5
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*

Re: Photo: Replacement siding on a reefer

Tim O'Connor
 

Number appears to be PFE 96505 - an R-30-9 (Red Caboose) or R-40-9 (RC + Tichy underframe) rebuild.

Tim

On 1/20/2020 9:35 PM, Dennis Storzek wrote:
Also a new ladder, the result of a classic "cornering" collision, I'm sure.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/mit-libraries/3441330455/in/album-72157614966285159/

Dennis Storzek
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*

Re: Branchline Blueprint 50-foot variations

Tim O'Connor
 

Branchline -

 8 foot and 9 foot riveted single door 50 foot box cars.

 welded 50 foot single door car with 9 foot doors.

 double door 50 foot box car.

 TWO different insulated box cars with 8 foot doors.

All have separate roofs and ends.

On 1/20/2020 8:12 AM, Bill Welch wrote:
I need a reminder regarding the Branchline Blueprint 50-foot boxcars in terms of the variations. I know they produced an 8-foot door car and an insulated car w/a sliding flush door. Note, I am not interested in the more modern cars they did, only the ones that would have the Improved Dreadnaught end variations.

Did they do a 9-foot door or any double door examples? Did the do any with a lower straight side sill?

Thank you
Bill Welch
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*

Re: PRR G22 question

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

So, I think there were many trucks on the G22, and yes, one of them looks like an extra beefy 6-spring 2D-F8, but like REALLY beefy. There is also a 100-ton Crown, which you see on some G22B. The 70-ton version of G22 does indeed have a 70-ton Crown, and also another 70-ton truck that also looks like a 2D-f8. It's complicated!

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bruce Smith
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 1:31 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR G22 question

Elden,

Maybe I’m getting it backwards, but I thought that the 100 ton truck on the G22B looked like the classic PRR 2D-F8 or AAR Type Y and the 70 ton truck on the G22 is indeed the PRR Crown (Bowser).

Duplicating that 100 ton truck is a challenge, because it has that deep drop. Picking my poison, I used the 50 ton 2D-P8 because of the side frame shape. Too light, not enough springs, but clearly different from the 70 ton crown on the G22.

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


On Jan 21, 2020, at 12:20 PM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@... <mailto:elden.j.gatwood@...> > wrote:

Bill;

I have not seen one. The closest is the 70-ton Crown from Bowser.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of WILLIAM PARDIE
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 1:04 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR G22 question

Is there a correct 100 ton truck available in HO?

Bill Pardie

Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR G22 question

Nelson Moyer
 

There was a thread on the Westerfield kit and container loads a couple of years ago, so check the archives. The G22 could accommodate eight containers, four on each end over the trucks, while the G22B could be filled with container. I suspect the desire for a full load of containers was the chief motivation for the truck upgrade and resulting class change.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Stic Harris
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 11:24 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR G22 question

 

Thank you all!

Much appreciate the information. And Elden, these photos are gold.

I actually have a set of the Westerfield containers to build and would like to put them in a G22B, so no one will know if my gondola happens to have/not have grates on the bottom.

My understanding is that Westerfield no longer makes the G22s. I've seen several G22s on eBay, but no G22Bs. 

So planning on building a G22 and replacing the trucks/stencils with my containers covering the bottom.

 

Again, many thanks for the group knowledge,

 

Stic

 

 

 

On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 10:33 AM Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@...> wrote:

Guys;

I believe PRR did a small number of G22B with mesh flooring to minimize the effects of cement build up, but they did not do this on most or all G22B.  It is a cool look, but not necessary on your models. They also did an interior that included container "dunnage" to keep the containers in place, like so:

Here are some other container photos.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 9:57 AM
To: STMFC <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR G22 question

Hi Bruce, Nelson, Stic, and List Members,


I was under the impression that the G22b had openings in the gon floor to allow debris to fall to the tracks, making them more suitable for container service. This can be seen in the images of the Traincat G22b kit linked below.

Blockedhttp://www.traincat2.com/d_gondola.htm

Am I in error? Is the Traincat kit in error?


Claus Schlund



        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Bruce Smith <mailto:smithbf@...>
        To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <mailto:main@realstmfc.groups.io>
        Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 9:43 AM
        Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR G22 question

        Stic,

        Correct. I believe that the only visible difference is are the 100 ton trucks on the G22B versus the 70 ton Crown trucks on the other subclasses, and, of course, the CAPY, LT WT, and LD LMT stencils, in addition to the subclass stencil.


        Regards

        Bruce




        Bruce F. Smith

        Auburn, AL

        "Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."





                On Jan 21, 2020, at 8:10 AM, Stic Harris <sticdvm@... <mailto:sticdvm@...> > wrote:

                Good morning smart freight car folk,

                I know we've had previous discussion on the PRR G22 flat cars, but I've been unable to find an answer to my question.

                Besides the trucks, which I know were upgraded, and the stencil indicating the type and capacity of the car, is there any structural or visual difference between the original G22 gondola and the G22B gondola?

                That is, if I change the trucks and decals, can I create an accurate G22B from a G22 model?

                Thanks in advance for any information,

                Stic Harris


                --



                - Stic






 

--

 

 

- Stic

Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR G22 question

Dennis Storzek
 

On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 10:31 AM, Robert kirkham wrote:
- when they increase capacity by changing the trucks . . . doesn't that mean the car frame and body are being subjected to higher loads?
Rob,

There came a point after the first few decades of the twentieth century where underframe design was being driven by train buff and draft forces rather than the load the car was intended to carry. At this point it was possible to increase the load limit of the car by simply changing the trucks, wheels, and axles, if there was an economic reason to do so.

Dennis Storzek

Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR G22 question

Robert kirkham
 

I'm enjoying reading this thread, but two questions come to mind:
- when they increase capacity by changing the trucks . . . doesn't that mean the car frame and body are being subjected to higher loads? Is there a sense that cars with the heavier trucks end up wearing out faster than cars with the lower capacity trucks?
- were cars with the containers free roaming - as in across the continent - or prone to PRR turf? I've not seen a photo of one in the Frost collection (West Coast Canada) for example.

Rob

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 10:27 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR G22 question

My pleasure, Stic.

No one does the G22B per se, it is up to you to dress it up like one!

Here are the DB4 and HB1A containers. The Westy containers are HB1A and HB4. A nice shot in color, in SK P&L (like mine).

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Stic Harris
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 12:24 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR G22 question

Thank you all!
Much appreciate the information. And Elden, these photos are gold.
I actually have a set of the Westerfield containers to build and would like to put them in a G22B, so no one will know if my gondola happens to have/not have grates on the bottom.
My understanding is that Westerfield no longer makes the G22s. I've seen several G22s on eBay, but no G22Bs.
So planning on building a G22 and replacing the trucks/stencils with my containers covering the bottom.

Again, many thanks for the group knowledge,

Stic



On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 10:33 AM Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@... <mailto:elden.j.gatwood@...> > wrote:


Guys;

I believe PRR did a small number of G22B with mesh flooring to minimize the effects of cement build up, but they did not do this on most or all G22B. It is a cool look, but not necessary on your models. They also did an interior that included container "dunnage" to keep the containers in place, like so:

Here are some other container photos.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> ] On Behalf Of Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 9:57 AM
To: STMFC <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> >
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR G22 question

Hi Bruce, Nelson, Stic, and List Members,


I was under the impression that the G22b had openings in the gon floor to allow debris to fall to the tracks, making them more suitable for container service. This can be seen in the images of the Traincat G22b kit linked below.

Blockedhttp://Blockedwww.traincat2.com/d_gondola.htm <Blockedhttp://www.traincat2.com/d_gondola.htm>

Am I in error? Is the Traincat kit in error?


Claus Schlund



----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce Smith <mailto:@smithbf <mailto:@smithbf> >
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <mailto:main@realstmfc.groups.io> <mailto:main@realstmfc.groups.io <mailto:main@realstmfc.groups.io> >
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 9:43 AM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR G22 question

Stic,

Correct. I believe that the only visible difference is are the 100 ton trucks on the G22B versus the 70 ton Crown trucks on the other subclasses, and, of course, the CAPY, LT WT, and LD LMT stencils, in addition to the subclass stencil.


Regards

Bruce




Bruce F. Smith

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."





On Jan 21, 2020, at 8:10 AM, Stic Harris <sticdvm@... <mailto:sticdvm@...> <mailto:sticdvm@... <mailto:sticdvm@...> > > wrote:

Good morning smart freight car folk,

I know we've had previous discussion on the PRR G22 flat cars, but I've been unable to find an answer to my question.

Besides the trucks, which I know were upgraded, and the stencil indicating the type and capacity of the car, is there any structural or visual difference between the original G22 gondola and the G22B gondola?

That is, if I change the trucks and decals, can I create an accurate G22B from a G22 model?

Thanks in advance for any information,

Stic Harris


--



- Stic










--



- Stic

Re: PRR G22 question

Bruce Smith
 

Elden,

Maybe I’m getting it backwards, but I thought that the 100 ton truck on the G22B looked like the classic PRR 2D-F8 or AAR Type Y and the 70 ton truck on the G22 is indeed the PRR Crown (Bowser).

Duplicating that 100 ton truck is a challenge, because it has that deep drop. Picking my poison, I used the 50 ton 2D-P8 because of the side frame shape. Too light, not enough springs, but clearly different from the 70 ton crown on the G22.

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

On Jan 21, 2020, at 12:20 PM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@...> wrote:

Bill;

I have not seen one.  The closest is the 70-ton Crown from Bowser.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of WILLIAM PARDIE
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 1:04 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR G22 question

Is there a correct 100 ton truck available in HO?

Bill Pardie

Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR G22 question

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

My pleasure, Stic.

No one does the G22B per se, it is up to you to dress it up like one!

Here are the DB4 and HB1A containers. The Westy containers are HB1A and HB4. A nice shot in color, in SK P&L (like mine).

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Stic Harris
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 12:24 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR G22 question

Thank you all!
Much appreciate the information. And Elden, these photos are gold.
I actually have a set of the Westerfield containers to build and would like to put them in a G22B, so no one will know if my gondola happens to have/not have grates on the bottom.
My understanding is that Westerfield no longer makes the G22s. I've seen several G22s on eBay, but no G22Bs.
So planning on building a G22 and replacing the trucks/stencils with my containers covering the bottom.

Again, many thanks for the group knowledge,

Stic



On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 10:33 AM Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@... <mailto:elden.j.gatwood@...> > wrote:


Guys;

I believe PRR did a small number of G22B with mesh flooring to minimize the effects of cement build up, but they did not do this on most or all G22B. It is a cool look, but not necessary on your models. They also did an interior that included container "dunnage" to keep the containers in place, like so:

Here are some other container photos.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> ] On Behalf Of Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 9:57 AM
To: STMFC <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> >
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR G22 question

Hi Bruce, Nelson, Stic, and List Members,


I was under the impression that the G22b had openings in the gon floor to allow debris to fall to the tracks, making them more suitable for container service. This can be seen in the images of the Traincat G22b kit linked below.

Blockedhttp://Blockedwww.traincat2.com/d_gondola.htm <Blockedhttp://www.traincat2.com/d_gondola.htm>

Am I in error? Is the Traincat kit in error?


Claus Schlund



----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce Smith <mailto:@smithbf <mailto:@smithbf> >
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <mailto:main@realstmfc.groups.io> <mailto:main@realstmfc.groups.io <mailto:main@realstmfc.groups.io> >
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 9:43 AM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR G22 question

Stic,

Correct. I believe that the only visible difference is are the 100 ton trucks on the G22B versus the 70 ton Crown trucks on the other subclasses, and, of course, the CAPY, LT WT, and LD LMT stencils, in addition to the subclass stencil.


Regards

Bruce




Bruce F. Smith

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."





On Jan 21, 2020, at 8:10 AM, Stic Harris <sticdvm@... <mailto:sticdvm@...> <mailto:sticdvm@... <mailto:sticdvm@...> > > wrote:

Good morning smart freight car folk,

I know we've had previous discussion on the PRR G22 flat cars, but I've been unable to find an answer to my question.

Besides the trucks, which I know were upgraded, and the stencil indicating the type and capacity of the car, is there any structural or visual difference between the original G22 gondola and the G22B gondola?

That is, if I change the trucks and decals, can I create an accurate G22B from a G22 model?

Thanks in advance for any information,

Stic Harris


--



- Stic










--



- Stic

Re: ARA / AAR Standard Letters and Figures for Freight Car Marking

Tony Thompson
 

Curt Fortenberry wrote:

Here's the CNW stencil from 1929.  Was for 3" letters so presumable for CAPY lettering and such.  The CNW drew full size letters, 9", but only for the letters they needed, not a full alphabet. 

   Thanks, Curt, exactly what was needed. These characters DO NOT match the MCB-ARA-AAR letters. The "M" in particular is much more condensed. One would need to look at the drawings for other sizes to be sure, but these 3-inch letters certainly are not exactly the ARA lettering.

Tony Thompson



Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR G22 question

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Bill;

I have not seen one. The closest is the 70-ton Crown from Bowser.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of WILLIAM PARDIE
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 1:04 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR G22 question

Is there a correct 100 ton truck available in HO?

Bill Pardie



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: "Gatwood, Elden J SAD" <elden.j.gatwood@...>
Date: 1/21/20 5:27 AM (GMT-10:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR G22 question

Guys;

I believe PRR did a small number of G22B with mesh flooring to minimize the effects of cement build up, but they did not do this on most or all G22B. It is a cool look, but not necessary on your models. They also did an interior that included container "dunnage" to keep the containers in place, like so:

Here are some other container photos.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 9:57 AM
To: STMFC <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR G22 question

Hi Bruce, Nelson, Stic, and List Members,


I was under the impression that the G22b had openings in the gon floor to allow debris to fall to the tracks, making them more suitable for container service. This can be seen in the images of the Traincat G22b kit linked below.

BlockedBlockedhttp://www.traincat2.com/d_gondola.htm

Am I in error? Is the Traincat kit in error?


Claus Schlund



----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce Smith <mailto:@smithbf>
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <mailto:main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 9:43 AM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR G22 question

Stic,

Correct. I believe that the only visible difference is are the 100 ton trucks on the G22B versus the 70 ton Crown trucks on the other subclasses, and, of course, the CAPY, LT WT, and LD LMT stencils, in addition to the subclass stencil.


Regards

Bruce




Bruce F. Smith

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."





On Jan 21, 2020, at 8:10 AM, Stic Harris <sticdvm@... <mailto:sticdvm@...> > wrote:

Good morning smart freight car folk,

I know we've had previous discussion on the PRR G22 flat cars, but I've been unable to find an answer to my question.

Besides the trucks, which I know were upgraded, and the stencil indicating the type and capacity of the car, is there any structural or visual difference between the original G22 gondola and the G22B gondola?

That is, if I change the trucks and decals, can I create an accurate G22B from a G22 model?

Thanks in advance for any information,

Stic Harris


--



- Stic

Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR G22 question

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

Is there a correct 100 ton truck available in HO?

Bill Pardie



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: "Gatwood, Elden J SAD" <elden.j.gatwood@...>
Date: 1/21/20 5:27 AM (GMT-10:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR G22 question

Guys;

I believe PRR did a small number of G22B with mesh flooring to minimize the effects of cement build up, but they did not do this on most or all G22B.  It is a cool look, but not necessary on your models. They also did an interior that included container "dunnage" to keep the containers in place, like so:

Here are some other container photos.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 9:57 AM
To: STMFC <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR G22 question

Hi Bruce, Nelson, Stic, and List Members,


I was under the impression that the G22b had openings in the gon floor to allow debris to fall to the tracks, making them more suitable for container service. This can be seen in the images of the Traincat G22b kit linked below.

Blockedhttp://www.traincat2.com/d_gondola.htm

Am I in error? Is the Traincat kit in error?


Claus Schlund



----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce Smith <mailto:smithbf@...>
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <mailto:main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 9:43 AM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR G22 question

Stic,

Correct. I believe that the only visible difference is are the 100 ton trucks on the G22B versus the 70 ton Crown trucks on the other subclasses, and, of course, the CAPY, LT WT, and LD LMT stencils, in addition to the subclass stencil.


Regards

Bruce




Bruce F. Smith

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."





On Jan 21, 2020, at 8:10 AM, Stic Harris <sticdvm@... <mailto:sticdvm@...> > wrote:

Good morning smart freight car folk,

I know we've had previous discussion on the PRR G22 flat cars, but I've been unable to find an answer to my question.

Besides the trucks, which I know were upgraded, and the stencil indicating the type and capacity of the car, is there any structural or visual difference between the original G22 gondola and the G22B gondola?

That is, if I change the trucks and decals, can I create an accurate G22B from a G22 model?

Thanks in advance for any information,

Stic Harris


--



- Stic






Re: ARA / AAR Standard Letters and Figures for Freight Car Marking

Curt Fortenberry
 


Here's the CNW stencil from 1929.  Was for 3" letters so presumable for CAPY lettering and such.  The CNW drew full size letters, 9", but only for the letters they needed, not a full alphabet. 

Curt Fortenberry

Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR G22 question

Stic Harris
 

Thank you all!
Much appreciate the information. And Elden, these photos are gold.
I actually have a set of the Westerfield containers to build and would like to put them in a G22B, so no one will know if my gondola happens to have/not have grates on the bottom.
My understanding is that Westerfield no longer makes the G22s. I've seen several G22s on eBay, but no G22Bs. 
So planning on building a G22 and replacing the trucks/stencils with my containers covering the bottom.

Again, many thanks for the group knowledge,

Stic



On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 10:33 AM Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@...> wrote:
Guys;

I believe PRR did a small number of G22B with mesh flooring to minimize the effects of cement build up, but they did not do this on most or all G22B.  It is a cool look, but not necessary on your models. They also did an interior that included container "dunnage" to keep the containers in place, like so:

Here are some other container photos.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 9:57 AM
To: STMFC <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR G22 question

Hi Bruce, Nelson, Stic, and List Members,


I was under the impression that the G22b had openings in the gon floor to allow debris to fall to the tracks, making them more suitable for container service. This can be seen in the images of the Traincat G22b kit linked below.

Blockedhttp://www.traincat2.com/d_gondola.htm

Am I in error? Is the Traincat kit in error?


Claus Schlund



        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Bruce Smith <mailto:smithbf@...>
        To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <mailto:main@realstmfc.groups.io>
        Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 9:43 AM
        Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR G22 question

        Stic,

        Correct. I believe that the only visible difference is are the 100 ton trucks on the G22B versus the 70 ton Crown trucks on the other subclasses, and, of course, the CAPY, LT WT, and LD LMT stencils, in addition to the subclass stencil.


        Regards

        Bruce




        Bruce F. Smith

        Auburn, AL

        "Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."





                On Jan 21, 2020, at 8:10 AM, Stic Harris <sticdvm@... <mailto:sticdvm@...> > wrote:

                Good morning smart freight car folk,

                I know we've had previous discussion on the PRR G22 flat cars, but I've been unable to find an answer to my question.

                Besides the trucks, which I know were upgraded, and the stencil indicating the type and capacity of the car, is there any structural or visual difference between the original G22 gondola and the G22B gondola?

                That is, if I change the trucks and decals, can I create an accurate G22B from a G22 model?

                Thanks in advance for any information,

                Stic Harris


                --



                - Stic








--


- Stic

Re: PRR G22 question

Nelson Moyer
 

The Westerfield Data Sheet mentions the drop doors in the floor, and said that the G22 and G22B both had them. The kit floor had the drop doors molded in the closed position. I think the G22B class was based solely on the truck upgrade which increased the tonnage.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 8:57 AM
To: STMFC <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR G22 question

 

Hi Bruce, Nelson, Stic, and List Members,

 

 

I was under the impression that the G22b had openings in the gon floor to allow debris to fall to the tracks, making them more suitable for container service. This can be seen in the images of the Traincat G22b kit linked below.

 

 

Am I in error? Is the Traincat kit in error?

 

 

Claus Schlund

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Bruce Smith

Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 9:43 AM

Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR G22 question

 

Stic,

 

Correct. I believe that the only visible difference is are the 100 ton trucks on the G22B versus the 70 ton Crown trucks on the other subclasses, and, of course, the CAPY, LT WT, and LD LMT stencils, in addition to the subclass stencil.

 

Regards

Bruce

 

Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."

 

 



On Jan 21, 2020, at 8:10 AM, Stic Harris <sticdvm@...> wrote:

 

Good morning smart freight car folk,

 

I know we've had previous discussion on the PRR G22 flat cars, but I've been unable to find an answer to my question.

 

Besides the trucks, which I know were upgraded, and the stencil indicating the type and capacity of the car, is there any structural or visual difference between the original G22 gondola and the G22B gondola?

 

That is, if I change the trucks and decals, can I create an accurate G22B from a G22 model?

 

Thanks in advance for any information,

 

Stic Harris

 

--

 

 

- Stic

 

Re: Photo: Replacement siding on a reefer

Bob Chaparro
 

Notice the boot scuff marks. This is a good detail for weathering

Here is another example of scuff marks made by boots. https://www.loc.gov/pictures/item/2016873160/

Use the "View Larger" tab to enlarge the photo.

Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA