Date   

Re: NKP BOXCAR COLORS

Brian Carlson
 

I should have mentioned my paint colors were are built. Some cars did get FCC ends when repainted. 

Brian J. Carlson 

On Feb 3, 2020, at 8:47 AM, al.kresse <water.kresse@...> wrote:


The NKP, Erie, PM and  C&O were all part of the Van Sweringen brother's empire at this time and had joint standards for lettering and painting.  Road specific fonts for none-data stencils were unique . . . i.e. like the PM's special "Q".  I believe the C&O had black ends at this time.  Research on AMC (Advisory Mechanical Committee) is spotty.  Some is at Clifton Forge. Don't know what Cleveland State U has.

I am too old to drive down to CF alone for research sessions these days.

Al Kresse
On February 2, 2020 at 10:27 PM WILLIAM PARDIE <PARDIEW001@...> wrote:



 


Re: NYO&W

Dennis Storzek
 

On Mon, Feb 3, 2020 at 05:04 AM, Craig Zeni wrote:
When the K brake ban was approaching, the road bought around 17 USRA two bays from the New Haven that were fitted with AB brakes as none - zero - of the O&W's cars had them.
Those must be the cars I've found photos of... battered black USRA twins with a simple "OW" and number in white, no name, no herald. Somehow the "ow" seems fitting.

Dennis Storzek


Re: NKP BOXCAR COLORS

al.kresse <water.kresse@...>
 

The NKP, Erie, PM and  C&O were all part of the Van Sweringen brother's empire at this time and had joint standards for lettering and painting.  Road specific fonts for none-data stencils were unique . . . i.e. like the PM's special "Q".  I believe the C&O had black ends at this time.  Research on AMC (Advisory Mechanical Committee) is spotty.  Some is at Clifton Forge. Don't know what Cleveland State U has.

I am too old to drive down to CF alone for research sessions these days.

Al Kresse

On February 2, 2020 at 10:27 PM WILLIAM PARDIE <PARDIEW001@...> wrote:



 


Re: NYO&W

Marty McGuirk
 

I've not seen many photos of NYO&W cars offline, but this is one I have seen - gondola 6366 in Sheldon Springs, Vermont in Sept 1941.

https://www.loc.gov/resource/fsa.8c07268/


Marty McGuirk

On February 3, 2020 at 8:04 AM Craig Zeni <@CraigZ> wrote:



On Feb 2, 2020, at 1:05 PM, main@RealSTMFC.groups.io wrote:

4c. NYO&W
From: David <jaydeet2001@...>
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2020 10:55:53 EST

O&W didn't have much to do after their anthracite traffic collapsed in the 1940s. The 7/50 ORER shows 234 hoppers, 35 gondolas, 34 box cars, and 11 flats; versus 2803 hoppers, 202 gondolas, 58 box cars, 25 stock cars, and 106 flats in January 1940.
As an on-and-off O&W modeler, 'hermit road' is a pretty decent description. Once the on-line anthracite mines played out / went bankrupt in 1937 the railroad (which held mortgages on those very mines) followed them into bankruptcy and never emerged, shutting down almost exactly 20 years later. The bankruptcy trustees took a different tact, working to make the O&W a bridge road between western connections and Maybrook Yard into New England. The haul was very short, the interchange at Coxton Yd with the LV tenuous with backing moves, and there was the other 2/3s of the railroad that managed to avoid every major population area.

To my knowledge, the O&W never owned a 40' box car of any type, let alone a steel box car. When the K brake ban was approaching, the road bought around 17 USRA two bays from the New Haven that were fitted with AB brakes as none - zero - of the O&W's cars had them.

Having said all that, it's a neat road to model. Camelbacks (double cabs in O&W parlance), some handsome 4-8-2s, and a diesel fleet that's bog easy to model with off the shelf FTs, F3s, and NW2s. The 5 GE 44 tonners are not in plastic, but W&R models did pretty little brass ones that run well. Short trains are kosher. Nickle Plate Products made most of the major steam classes though some require some hefty repowering. NPP and the Old & Weary Car Shops did cabeese; the latter did the drop bottom coal gons in brass...also available from F&C in resin.


Craig Zeni
Cary NC






Re: NYO&W

Craig Zeni
 

On Feb 2, 2020, at 1:05 PM, main@RealSTMFC.groups.io wrote:

4c. NYO&W
From: David <jaydeet2001@...>
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2020 10:55:53 EST

O&W didn't have much to do after their anthracite traffic collapsed in the 1940s. The 7/50 ORER shows 234 hoppers, 35 gondolas, 34 box cars, and 11 flats; versus 2803 hoppers, 202 gondolas, 58 box cars, 25 stock cars, and 106 flats in January 1940.
As an on-and-off O&W modeler, 'hermit road' is a pretty decent description. Once the on-line anthracite mines played out / went bankrupt in 1937 the railroad (which held mortgages on those very mines) followed them into bankruptcy and never emerged, shutting down almost exactly 20 years later. The bankruptcy trustees took a different tact, working to make the O&W a bridge road between western connections and Maybrook Yard into New England. The haul was very short, the interchange at Coxton Yd with the LV tenuous with backing moves, and there was the other 2/3s of the railroad that managed to avoid every major population area.

To my knowledge, the O&W never owned a 40' box car of any type, let alone a steel box car. When the K brake ban was approaching, the road bought around 17 USRA two bays from the New Haven that were fitted with AB brakes as none - zero - of the O&W's cars had them.

Having said all that, it's a neat road to model. Camelbacks (double cabs in O&W parlance), some handsome 4-8-2s, and a diesel fleet that's bog easy to model with off the shelf FTs, F3s, and NW2s. The 5 GE 44 tonners are not in plastic, but W&R models did pretty little brass ones that run well. Short trains are kosher. Nickle Plate Products made most of the major steam classes though some require some hefty repowering. NPP and the Old & Weary Car Shops did cabeese; the latter did the drop bottom coal gons in brass...also available from F&C in resin.


Craig Zeni
Cary NC


Re: NKP BOXCAR COLORS

Fritz Milhaupt
 

Black ends surviving the first repainting seems pretty uncommon among C&O and Pere Marquette boxcars, from most photos I've seen, and recollections of friends who frequented yards in the '40s and '50s.

- Fritz Milhaupt


Re: NKP BOXCAR COLORS

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Bill and Brian,

These cars were covered in an article by Pat Wider in RPC 19. Pullman builder's photos show the ends as black. The trucks also appear to be black, so the underframe probably was too. No solid information on the roof.

I photographed NKP 8099 at Noblesville, Indiana in 1978, and do not remember black ends. From another photo of this car in Wider's article, and other in-service photos of its sisters, it appears that the black (probably car cement) wore off over time, or if the cars were repainted they were done in all-FCR. The trucks were a rusty color by 1978. This car was probably on its way to the now-relocated Indiana Museum of Transport and Communications, also in Noblesville. Let's hope it survived that museum's relocation.

Yours Aye,

Garth Groff  🦆


On Sun, Feb 2, 2020 at 10:27 PM WILLIAM PARDIE <PARDIEW001@...> wrote:


Re: NYO&W

Todd Sullivan
 

And Bob Mohowski, devoted O&W modeler, who is still probably lurking about in Upstate New York.

Todd Sullivan
Rowlett, TX


Re: NKP BOXCAR COLORS

Brian Carlson
 

Bill

Ends black, Underbody black, Trucks black (unpainted castings). Roof unclear. The running board is unpainted galvanized. The seam caps look painted. The entire roof may be freight car color or it may be black or just the seam caps are black. I don’t have a photo that clearly shows the roof.  Maybe Ray Breyer does but if he did, I would have seen it. Signing this post officially.

 

Brian Carlson, P.E.

NKPHTS Collections Management director

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of WILLIAM PARDIE
Sent: Sunday, February 2, 2020 10:27 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] NKP BOXCAR COLORS

 

 


NKP BOXCAR COLORS

WILLIAM PARDIE
 


_._,_._,_

Above is an Overland brass car.  I was told by a very knowledgable modeler that the ends should be black.  He did not, however, have any information on the roof, underframes and trucks.  Were they vblack as well?

Thanks:

Bill Pardie


Re: Vague question about a gondola

Rick Jesionowski
 

I did two of them, one in CNJ and the other in a LV paint scheme they have never done.

Rick Jesionowski


Re: NYO&W

Bruce Smith
 

I think I saw a photo of a NYO&W hopper car at Harriman, on the Union Pacific!  😉 (note: this might have been in Mike Brock universe...)

Armand, as others have noted, this road was definitely a shaky proposition for most of the modern steam era, and with a tiny fleet of cars, the chances of seeing one off home rails was pretty darn small. As noted, there is a dedicated cadre of fans and modelers of the "Old and Weary" including Bill Schneider.

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, Al


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Armand Premo <arm.p.prem@...>
Sent: Sunday, February 2, 2020 7:51 AM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io <RealSTMFC@groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] NYO&W
 
The NYO&W seems to be like a Hermit RR.Photos of cars in interchange seem to be rather rare and models even rarer.Does anyone have any information on this  RR ?  Armand Premo


Re: NYO&W

Bill J.
 

For models, keep watch on eBay.  You might find some steam and an OW wood drop-bottom gon.

For books, check bookfinder.com. 

Also, brasstrains.com is a good place:  https://brasstrains.com/Classic/Trains/Roads/107/New-York-Ontario-Western?showsold=False    They have a terrific book; it is pricey but well worth it.

Bill Jolitz


NYO&W

David
 

O&W didn't have much to do after their anthracite traffic collapsed in the 1940s. The 7/50 ORER shows 234 hoppers, 35 gondolas, 34 box cars, and 11 flats; versus 2803 hoppers, 202 gondolas, 58 box cars, 25 stock cars, and 106 flats in January 1940.

David Thompson


Re: Overhead Bunker cars, from another railroads perspective

Scott
 

That was a  interesting read.  Thanks for posting that.  I wonder how the 8 hatch reefers would be iced when not on home road icing stations.  Especially when they needed special tools to stir the ice brine.  Plus needing chopped/shaved ice instead of crushed.  It's still amazing they could get such low temps with the ice brine.

Scott McDonald 


Re: NYO&W

John Barry
 

Armand,

There is a small, but dedicated group of NYOW folks still active on Yahoo groups,
owrhs@....  

I discovered them while trying to sell my NicklePlateProducts NYOW 4-8-2.  

John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736


On Sunday, February 2, 2020, 08:52:05 AM EST, Armand Premo <arm.p.prem@...> wrote:


The NYO&W seems to be like a Hermit RR.Photos of cars in interchange seem to be rather rare and models even rarer.Does anyone have any information on this  RR ?  Armand Premo


Re: Peek-A-Boo Gondolas

Todd Horton
 

I’m not sure where they originated but I always assumed they were sent to Brunswick for unloading. There was so many forest operations in South Ga that there could have been several locations of loading points. I’ve never located a file about these cars but I know they existed from talking to former employees of the railroad. There is a paint stencil diagram for these cars as they were modified for stump service. Todd Horton

On Feb 2, 2020, at 2:26 AM, Rufus Cone <rclist09@...> wrote:

Todd,

Where were these stumps hauled and did they originate on the CG?

There was a Hercules explosives plant for near Brunswick, not served by CG.

Rufus

The C of Ga modified some USRA clone gons like this for hauling stumps to make dynamite Todd Horton
--
Rufus Cone
Bozeman, MT




NYO&W

Armand Premo
 

The NYO&W seems to be like a Hermit RR.Photos of cars in interchange seem to be rather rare and models even rarer.Does anyone have any information on this  RR ?  Armand Premo


Re: Peek-A-Boo Gondolas

 

The CNW car was not as extensively modified as the Milwaukee cars. Photos that I have seen (they're in the Morningside CNW V2 Color Guide book) show only 1 panel cut out on each side of the car. They were deployed in pulpwood service.

The CNW Historical Society does offer decals and a diagram for  one of these. The Mantua car was recommended as a base for a model. I did one  a few years ago.

For purposes of this group, I believe the CNW cars were modified after the date range interest of this group.

Dave Strahlendorf


Re: Peek-A-Boo Gondolas

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Friends,

While traveling from California to Virginia in 1982 I spotted this SAL stump gondola. It doesn't have the "skeleton" sides of the cars previously under discussion, but does have the sides cut away at floor level for cleaning (as if that ever happened). The car was white, and I think the number was 6890, but only the ghost lettering remained. The car is marked "STUMP WOOD LOADING ONLY".

Yours Aye,

Mungo Napier, Laird of Mallard Lodge  🦆


On Sun, Feb 2, 2020 at 2:26 AM Rufus Cone <rclist09@...> wrote:
Todd,

Where were these stumps hauled and did they originate on the CG?

There was a Hercules explosives plant for near Brunswick, not served by CG.

Rufus

> The C of Ga modified some USRA clone gons like this for hauling stumps
> to make dynamite       Todd Horton

--
Rufus Cone
Bozeman, MT