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Re: D&H Flat
Bob Webber
What, you think the Olds grill is a bit out of
comparison? The algorithms for determining "similarity"
have always needed tweaking. OTOH, the Gon is in the same basic
category....
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
At 11:05 AM 2/8/2020, you wrote:
On Sat, Feb 8, 2020 at 09:33 AM, Bob Webber wrote:
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Re: D&H Flat
Dan,
You may have missed it, but this entire thread was started with respect to D&H 16153. Dave Boss asked "Does
anyone know if there was ever a D&H #16153 250 ton four truck flat car model available...?". Francis then replied that there was an ECW kit
of that car. At no point was the thread NOT in reference to D&H 16153. I suggest that you use the links at the bottom of this message and see that for yourself.
And no, ECW 4700 is the PRR F38
Finally, the photo in your email comes from a Model Railroad Hobbyist blog, where the author (not you), states that he is using the F38 kit to model two flats, one the PRR F38 and a second, SOUTHERN 50099 (no D&H mentioned) a flat with a shorter deck that he
is BASHING from the F38. https://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/24094 I even did a Google image search with the photo from your message and the only thing it brought up was the
MRH thread. I can find no sign of the photo you attached on eBay.
Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, Al
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Daniel A. Mitchell <danmitch@...>
Sent: Saturday, February 8, 2020 10:20 AM To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] D&H Flat Nope!
I’m no D&H expert. I was referring to the ECW HO plastic KIT (what was being discussed), not any prototype. We are
NOT discussing the D&H #16153, a more conventional 4-truck 8-axle car.
The 4-truck HO model ECW produced was offered as BOTH a PRR F38 and a D&H car. I suspect they were the same, except for the length of the main deck.
Their part no.4700 is the D&H model, a 12-axle 4-truck car. I have no idea if it even has a prototype, D&H or other, but it exists as a model.
I have a Railworks PRR F38 and the ECW 4-truck flat. They are virtually identical except for the deck-length and end platforms. Hey both have 12 axles and four trucks.
Here, copied off an eBay listing are photos of BOTH versions.
Dan MItchell
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Re: D&H Flat
rdgbuff56
Would you want to sell it? Francis A. Pehowic, Jr.
On Saturday, February 8, 2020, 12:12:16 PM EST, Daniel A. Mitchell <danmitch@...> wrote: Bob Kelly states : "The Eastern Car Works #4700 is labeled as a PRR F38 but will build either car. The kit is an F38 but the instructions and marks on the deck parts show how to shorten the deck for the D&H version. The included decals had both PRR and D&H". That’s interesting! Mine is in a box labeled “D&H", not PRR. So, there must have been several versions of packaging. As I earlier stated the cars are identical except for the main-deck length. I have not looked into my kit for several years (it’s buried), but it may well be true that it will build either version. However, it was definitely marketed as a D&H car, and the replies make it clear that it was marketed separately as a PRR F38. Lilekely the same kit in two different boxes. I can’t recall whether my D&H version includes PRR decals. I’ll need to dig it out and take a look. Dan Mitchell ==========
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Re: D&H Flat
Bob Kelly states : "The Eastern Car Works #4700 is labeled as a PRR F38 but will build either car. The kit is an F38 but the instructions and marks on the deck parts show how to shorten the deck for the D&H version. The included decals had both PRR and D&H".
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
That’s interesting! Mine is in a box labeled “D&H", not PRR. So, there must have been several versions of packaging. As I earlier stated the cars are identical except for the main-deck length. I have not looked into my kit for several years (it’s buried), but it may well be true that it will build either version. However, it was definitely marketed as a D&H car, and the replies make it clear that it was marketed separately as a PRR F38. Lilekely the same kit in two different boxes. I can’t recall whether my D&H version includes PRR decals. I’ll need to dig it out and take a look. Dan Mitchell ==========
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Re: D&H Flat
Tom Madden
On Sat, Feb 8, 2020 at 09:33 AM, Bob Webber wrote:
Hmmm...I particularly like the list of "Similar Items" at the bottom of the page..... Tom Madden
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Re: D&H Flat
Bob Webber
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Re: D&H Flat
Bill Kelly
The Eastern Car Works #4700 is labeled as a PRR F38 but will build
either car. The kit is an F38 but the instructions and marks on the deck parts
show how to shorten the deck for the D&H version. The included decals had
both PRR and D&H.
Later,
Bill Kelly
Daniel A. Mitchell wrote:
The two cars are very similar, but not identical. Both have four 3-axle
Buckeye trucks mounted on span bolsters. The PRR F38 has a main deck that
extends almost the full-length of the car, with minimal exposed decks on the
span bolsters. The D&H version has a shorter main deck, and much larger end
platforms (“porches”) on the span bolsters.
The Eastern car works part number for the D&H car was 4700.
Dan Mitchell
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Re: D&H Flat
rdgbuff56
It appears to me that the D&H car is just a car with a shorter deck. If you had the F38, just modify deck by shortening it. Francis A. Pehowic, Jr.
On Saturday, February 8, 2020, 11:20:54 AM EST, Daniel A. Mitchell <danmitch@...> wrote: Nope! I’m no D&H expert. I was referring to the ECW HO plastic KIT (what was being discussed), not any prototype. We are NOT discussing the D&H #16153, a more conventional 4-truck 8-axle car. The 4-truck HO model ECW produced was offered as BOTH a PRR F38 and a D&H car. I suspect they were the same, except for the length of the main deck. Their part no.4700 is the D&H model, a 12-axle 4-truck car. I have no idea if it even has a prototype, D&H or other, but it exists as a model. I have a Railworks PRR F38 and the ECW 4-truck flat. They are virtually identical except for the deck-length and end platforms. Hey both have 12 axles and four trucks. Here, copied off an eBay listing are photos of BOTH versions. Dan MItchell ==========
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Re: D&H Flat
Nope!
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
I’m no D&H expert. I was referring to the ECW HO plastic KIT (what was being discussed), not any prototype. We are NOT discussing the D&H #16153, a more conventional 4-truck 8-axle car. The 4-truck HO model ECW produced was offered as BOTH a PRR F38 and a D&H car. I suspect they were the same, except for the length of the main deck. Their part no.4700 is the D&H model, a 12-axle 4-truck car. I have no idea if it even has a prototype, D&H or other, but it exists as a model. I have a Railworks PRR F38 and the ECW 4-truck flat. They are virtually identical except for the deck-length and end platforms. Hey both have 12 axles and four trucks. Here, copied off an eBay listing are photos of BOTH versions. Dan MItchell ==========
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Re: NKP Passenger and freight car information.
I’m not sure what happened to the link in my original email but here it is
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Brian J. Carlson
On Feb 7, 2020, at 8:45 PM, Brian Carlson via Groups.Io <prrk41361@...> wrote:
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Re: D&H Flat
Um Dan,
Nope. D&H #16153 bears almost no resemblance to the PRR F38. The D&H car has 4 trucks, true, but they are 2-axle and not 3-axle. The body is welded, true, but the D&H body is full-length, with no end platforms. The D&H car is broadly similar to the PRR F34
but is not the same as that car either.
So, let's review...
D&H 16153 (no known kit)
 
PRR F34 (Athearn, Bachmann, F&C) - 187.5 ton capacity (later increased to 200 tons), 8 axle flat
ECW kit #4700 - PRR F38 - 250 ton 12 axle heavy duty flat
ECW kit 4800 - 90 ton depressed center flat car
 As you can see, these are three VERY different cars. The D&H car bears NO resemblance to the PRR F38 other than being multi-trucked with span bolsters. On close examination of the D&H car, it appears to be similar to but a bit longer and without the obvious
cast body flange of the pre WWII era GSC car (PRR F34, CNW, SP, etc...).
Bottom line, unless there is physical evidence to the existence of an ECW model of this D&H flat car, I'm going to remain skeptical that such a thing ever existed.
Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Daniel A. Mitchell <danmitch@...>
Sent: Saturday, February 8, 2020 9:11 AM To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] D&H Flat The two cars are very similar, but not identical. Both have four 3-axle Buckeye trucks mounted on span bolsters. The PRR F38 has a main deck that extends almost the full-length of the
car, with minimal exposed decks on the span bolsters. The D&H version has a shorter main deck, and much larger end platforms (“porches”) on the span bolsters.
The Eastern car works part number for the D&H car was 4700.
Dan Mitchell
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Re: D&H Flat
The two cars are very similar, but not identical. Both have four 3-axle Buckeye trucks mounted on span bolsters. The PRR F38 has a main deck that extends almost the full-length of the car, with minimal exposed decks on the span bolsters. The D&H version has a shorter main deck, and much larger end platforms (“porches”) on the span bolsters.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
The Eastern car works part number for the D&H car was 4700. Dan Mitchell ==========
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Re: Correction PRR Stock cars on Southern Pacific or Union Pacific tracks?
David North
Thanks to everyone who replied. I’ll pass your responses on to my friend. Cheers Dave
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Re: D&H Flat
rdgbuff56
Aren't the two cars identical? When first released the ECW car was advertised as a D&H car. Francis A. Pehowic, Jr.
On Saturday, February 8, 2020, 09:18:51 AM EST, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote: I'm with Tom on this... I could be wrong, but ECW produced two heavy duty flat cars that I am aware of, the Commonwealth 90 ton depressed center car (NYC, NH, etc...) series 4800 kits and the 4 truck PRR F38 (series 4700 kits). I searched with multiple terms and while the extremely hard to find F38 came up multiple times and the 90 ton depressed center car dominated, I could find no evidence on-line of an ECW kit for the subject car. Both Athearn and Bachmann have produced the car in question in HO, albeit somewhat grossly misshapen. Regards, Bruce Bruce Smith Auburn, AL From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of rdgbuff56 via Groups.Io <rdgbuff56@...> Sent: Saturday, February 8, 2020 1:13 AM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] D&H Flat Yes. 16??? Series. Francis A. Pehowic, Jr. On Saturday, February 8, 2020, 6:51:28 AM UTC, Tom Madden via Groups.Io <pullmanboss@...> wrote: On Fri, Feb 7, 2020 at 03:58 PM, rdgbuff56 wrote: Eastern Car Works made a 90 ton two truck depressed center flat car. Did they also make the 250 ton four truck one the O.P. was asking about? Tom Madden
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Re: D&H Flat
I'm with Tom on this...
I could be wrong, but ECW produced two heavy duty flat cars that I am aware of, the Commonwealth 90 ton depressed center car (NYC, NH, etc...) series 4800 kits and the 4 truck PRR F38 (series 4700 kits).
I searched with multiple terms and while the extremely hard to find F38 came up multiple times and the 90 ton depressed center car dominated, I could find no evidence on-line of an ECW kit for the subject car.
Both Athearn and Bachmann have produced the car in question in HO, albeit somewhat grossly misshapen.
Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of rdgbuff56 via Groups.Io <rdgbuff56@...>
Sent: Saturday, February 8, 2020 1:13 AM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] D&H Flat Yes. 16??? Series.
Francis A. Pehowic, Jr.
On Saturday, February 8, 2020, 6:51:28 AM UTC, Tom Madden via Groups.Io <pullmanboss@...> wrote:
On Fri, Feb 7, 2020 at 03:58 PM, rdgbuff56 wrote:
Eastern Car Works made a 90 ton two truck depressed center flat car. Did they also make the 250 ton four truck one the O.P. was asking about? Tom Madden
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Re: D&H Flat
rdgbuff56
Yes. 16??? Series. Francis A. Pehowic, Jr.
On Saturday, February 8, 2020, 6:51:28 AM UTC, Tom Madden via Groups.Io <pullmanboss@...> wrote:
On Fri, Feb 7, 2020 at 03:58 PM, rdgbuff56 wrote: Eastern Car Works made a 90 ton two truck depressed center flat car. Did they also make the 250 ton four truck one the O.P. was asking about? Tom Madden
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Re: D&H Flat
Tom Madden
On Fri, Feb 7, 2020 at 03:58 PM, rdgbuff56 wrote:
Eastern Car Works made a 90 ton two truck depressed center flat car. Did they also make the 250 ton four truck one the O.P. was asking about? Tom Madden
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Re: Gibson Wine Company Tank Cars
Two photos of multi-compartment GATX tank cars lettered for Gibson Wine.
Bob Chaparro Hemet, CA
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Re: D&H Flat
rdgbuff56
Dave, I do not know if it had decals. I would say probably not. Francis A. Pehowic, Jr.
On Friday, February 7, 2020, 07:41:51 PM EST, Dave Boss <daveboss1976@...> wrote: Hi Francis Thanks for the info I'll have to search for one. Do you know if it came with decals? Dave On Fri, Feb 7, 2020 at 5:58 PM rdgbuff56 via Groups.Io <rdgbuff56=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
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Re: D&H Flat
Dave,
This flat car was produced by GSC as a "kit" which a number of railroads purchased. On the PRR this was the F34. F&C recently released the F34 in HO, and subsequently SP and C&NW versions of this kit. Hold on a bot and you may see a D&H version, especially
if you ask for it 🙂🙂
Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Dave Boss <daveboss1976@...>
Sent: Friday, February 7, 2020 4:35 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> Subject: [RealSTMFC] D&H Flat Hello Guys
Does anyone know if there was ever a D&H #16153 250 ton four truck flat car model available or even a decal set for this flat car in HO scale? The F&C kits, as well as Athearns, version are different , but might work to a kit bash project. I believe the real issues is the decals. I can't recall any decal sets or models. Any help would be appreciated Thank you Good Day Dave Boss
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