1. main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
   Date   
Re: PRR Stock cars on Southern Pacific or Union Pacific tracks?

David North
 

I checked Bowser for HO models of the K11 stock cars and they have two paint schemes.

One is all Tuscan and the other is Tuscan with a galvanised? roof and doors.

Are either or both these variations suitable for 1954?

Cheers

Dave
Re: ACL low sided gondolas

Paul Doggett
 

Thomas 

I have just finished the K7 the decals were absolutely awful, thank you for your help.

Paul 



On 5 Feb 2020, at 15:24, thomas christensen via Groups.Io <thomasjonly@...> wrote:


Paul, 
 Class K-7 90950-93199, blt 1926 by ACF.
 Attached are the Lines South article from Spring 1990, 2 Larry Goolsby photos, and photos  of models I did about 25 years ago based on the Ertl model.
Tom Christensen 






















Hi

I have just started a Funaro and Camerlengo ACL low sided gondola as usual there is no photographs of the prototype and the drawing is poor has anyone got any photos of these cars in service the only number given is 92250 .

Thank you in advance
Paul Doggett    

Attachments:
Re: High and Wide ops was D&H Flat

BRIAN PAUL EHNI
 

Your guess is as good as mine, Tim, But certainly plausible.

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Saturday, February 8, 2020 at 5:47 PM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] High and Wide ops was D&H Flat

 


Outstanding that you caught that train Brian! The spaced out loads may have had something
to do with bridge loading limits, perhaps?



On 2/8/2020 6:35 PM, BRIAN PAUL EHNI wrote:

I once saw a train on the SP Houston-Dallas line that had 6 heavy duty flat cars at the head of the train. They were separated from each other by boxcars, and each had a large electrical transformer. Here’s a shot of one; N&W 70182, plus three together.

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Bruce Smith <smithbf@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Saturday, February 8, 2020 at 5:09 PM
To: "main@RealSTMFC.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] High and Wide ops was D&H Flat

 

Dan,

 

Precisely!  While large loads could be moved in regular freights, "high and wide" loads often required special handling and therefore were often accumulated and moved in a single train. On the stretch of the PRR I model, the Columbia and Port Deposit branch, from Perryville MD, through Columbia PA and on to Enola, this H&W train was typically run on Sunday morning. That makes sense as it was the lightest traffic day of the week, and therefore the low speed and occasional stops to check clearance wouldn't mess up the rest of the railroad. There was also a spot at "Midway siding" where the tracks were set farther apart, to allow H&W trains to pass each other. i plan too accumulate a train of H&W loads and then run it once every 10-14 ops sessions.

 

Regards,

Bruce

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Daniel A. Mitchell <danmitch@...>
Sent: Saturday, February 8, 2020 2:50 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] D&H Flat

 

Not now. I have a strange appreciation of heavy duty flat cars and their often interesting loads. I just haven’t gotten around to this one yet, perhaps because I’ve not seen a photo of the prototype and whatever load it might be carrying. One has to be careful mixing such cars into regular train (assuming they’re not a “high and wide”). Too many looks strange. On the other hand I’ve seen photos of whole trains of high and wide oversized loads. Perhaps that’s putting all one’s problems in one place?

 

Dan Mitchell

Attachments:


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: High and Wide ops was D&H Flat

Tim O'Connor
 


Outstanding that you caught that train Brian! The spaced out loads may have had something
to do with bridge loading limits, perhaps?



On 2/8/2020 6:35 PM, BRIAN PAUL EHNI wrote:

I once saw a train on the SP Houston-Dallas line that had 6 heavy duty flat cars at the head of the train. They were separated from each other by boxcars, and each had a large electrical transformer. Here’s a shot of one; N&W 70182, plus three together.

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Bruce Smith <smithbf@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Saturday, February 8, 2020 at 5:09 PM
To: "main@RealSTMFC.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] High and Wide ops was D&H Flat

 

Dan,

 

Precisely!  While large loads could be moved in regular freights, "high and wide" loads often required special handling and therefore were often accumulated and moved in a single train. On the stretch of the PRR I model, the Columbia and Port Deposit branch, from Perryville MD, through Columbia PA and on to Enola, this H&W train was typically run on Sunday morning. That makes sense as it was the lightest traffic day of the week, and therefore the low speed and occasional stops to check clearance wouldn't mess up the rest of the railroad. There was also a spot at "Midway siding" where the tracks were set farther apart, to allow H&W trains to pass each other. i plan too accumulate a train of H&W loads and then run it once every 10-14 ops sessions.

 

Regards,

Bruce

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Daniel A. Mitchell <danmitch@...>
Sent: Saturday, February 8, 2020 2:50 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] D&H Flat

 

Not now. I have a strange appreciation of heavy duty flat cars and their often interesting loads. I just haven’t gotten around to this one yet, perhaps because I’ve not seen a photo of the prototype and whatever load it might be carrying. One has to be careful mixing such cars into regular train (assuming they’re not a “high and wide”). Too many looks strange. On the other hand I’ve seen photos of whole trains of high and wide oversized loads. Perhaps that’s putting all one’s problems in one place?

 

Dan Mitchell

Attachments:


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts
Re: High and Wide ops was D&H Flat

BRIAN PAUL EHNI
 

I once saw a train on the SP Houston-Dallas line that had 6 heavy duty flat cars at the head of the train. They were separated from each other by boxcars, and each had a large electrical transformer. Here’s a shot of one; N&W 70182, plus three together.

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Bruce Smith <smithbf@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Saturday, February 8, 2020 at 5:09 PM
To: "main@RealSTMFC.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] High and Wide ops was D&H Flat

 

Dan,

 

Precisely!  While large loads could be moved in regular freights, "high and wide" loads often required special handling and therefore were often accumulated and moved in a single train. On the stretch of the PRR I model, the Columbia and Port Deposit branch, from Perryville MD, through Columbia PA and on to Enola, this H&W train was typically run on Sunday morning. That makes sense as it was the lightest traffic day of the week, and therefore the low speed and occasional stops to check clearance wouldn't mess up the rest of the railroad. There was also a spot at "Midway siding" where the tracks were set farther apart, to allow H&W trains to pass each other. i plan too accumulate a train of H&W loads and then run it once every 10-14 ops sessions.

 

Regards,

Bruce

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Daniel A. Mitchell <danmitch@...>
Sent: Saturday, February 8, 2020 2:50 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] D&H Flat

 

Not now. I have a strange appreciation of heavy duty flat cars and their often interesting loads. I just haven’t gotten around to this one yet, perhaps because I’ve not seen a photo of the prototype and whatever load it might be carrying. One has to be careful mixing such cars into regular train (assuming they’re not a “high and wide”). Too many looks strange. On the other hand I’ve seen photos of whole trains of high and wide oversized loads. Perhaps that’s putting all one’s problems in one place?

 

Dan Mitchell
High and Wide ops was D&H Flat

Bruce Smith
 

Dan,

Precisely!  While large loads could be moved in regular freights, "high and wide" loads often required special handling and therefore were often accumulated and moved in a single train. On the stretch of the PRR I model, the Columbia and Port Deposit branch, from Perryville MD, through Columbia PA and on to Enola, this H&W train was typically run on Sunday morning. That makes sense as it was the lightest traffic day of the week, and therefore the low speed and occasional stops to check clearance wouldn't mess up the rest of the railroad. There was also a spot at "Midway siding" where the tracks were set farther apart, to allow H&W trains to pass each other. i plan too accumulate a train of H&W loads and then run it once every 10-14 ops sessions.

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Daniel A. Mitchell <danmitch@...>
Sent: Saturday, February 8, 2020 2:50 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] D&H Flat
 
Not now. I have a strange appreciation of heavy duty flat cars and their often interesting loads. I just haven’t gotten around to this one yet, perhaps because I’ve not seen a photo of the prototype and whatever load it might be carrying. One has to be careful mixing such cars into regular train (assuming they’re not a “high and wide”). Too many looks strange. On the other hand I’ve seen photos of whole trains of high and wide oversized loads. Perhaps that’s putting all one’s problems in one place?

Dan Mitchell
Re: D&H Flat

Dan Smith
 

Hello Dan and to others in the group,

This is a link to a load offered by MultiScale Digital,

https://www.ebay.com/itm/HO-Scale-Mesta-Huge-Forging-Press-Ram-Beam-Flat-Car-Load-Model-Railroad/303473590443?hash=item46a86f80ab:g:b~wAAOSwjCxeOc4j

Scroll to bottom for a photo of load on a PRR F38. Very cool.

Mark puts in service shots into his listings so take a look at others.

I am a satisfied customer too. New loads coming out at a fair rate.

And the Peacock brake wheel used on these PRR cars.Rare and distinctive.

Dan Smith
Re: D&H Flat

Daniel A. Mitchell
 

Bruce:

That’s the first photo of the D&H 12-axle car I’ve seen, Thanks!

I did miss the start of this thread, so was not aware of the previous discussion on the 8-axle D&H car. When I “arrived” the discussion was heavy on the ECW model car, and that’s when I started getting in on it.

Thanks again,

Dan Mitchell
==========

On Feb 8, 2020, at 1:06 PM, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:

Dan (other Dan),

Thanks. Interesting. Definitely NOT the D&H flat car that started this discussion though 😉  Obviously, I was unaware that ECW did this and frankly the kit was so problematic that I was happy to stick with my brass F38.  It would appear from the instructions that there were a significant number of 36' deck variants of this car beyond D&H that this kit could also model.

The modified kit does appear to be prototypical for D&H 16157 (not D&H 16153)

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Dan Smith <espeefan@...>
Sent: Saturday, February 8, 2020 11:56 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] D&H Flat
 
All,

An ECW 4700 sold on ebay a while ago, here is the link to that sold listing.

Take a look and it shows the instructions well. You can see the 2 build versions that can be done.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Eastern-Car-Works-Heavy-Duty-Cars-Pennsylvania-F-38-4700-Undecorated-/303433667393?hash=item46a60e5341%3Ag%3Au24AAOSwWxxeEknn&nma=true&si=jM4eChH7Do6CPgEAYYSAj931zhg%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Dan Smith
Re: D&H Flat

Daniel A. Mitchell
 

Not now. I have a strange appreciation of heavy duty flat cars and their often interesting loads. I just haven’t gotten around to this one yet, perhaps because I’ve not seen a photo of the prototype and whatever load it might be carrying. One has to be careful mixing such cars into regular train (assuming they’re not a “high and wide”). Too many looks strange. On the other hand I’ve seen photos of whole trains of high and wide oversized loads. Perhaps that’s putting all one’s problems in one place?

Dan Mitchell
==========

On Feb 8, 2020, at 12:29 PM, rdgbuff56 via Groups.Io <rdgbuff56@...> wrote:

Would you want to sell it?

Francis A. Pehowic, Jr.

On Saturday, February 8, 2020, 12:12:16 PM EST, Daniel A. Mitchell <danmitch@...> wrote:


Bob Kelly states : "The Eastern Car Works #4700 is labeled as a PRR F38 but will build either car. The kit is an F38 but the instructions and marks on the deck parts show how to shorten the deck for the D&H version. The included decals had both PRR and D&H".

That’s interesting! Mine is in a box labeled “D&H", not PRR. So, there must have been several versions of packaging. As I earlier stated the cars are identical except for the main-deck length. I have not looked into my kit for several years (it’s buried), but it may well be true that it will build either version. However, it was definitely marketed as a D&H car, and the replies make it clear that it was marketed separately as a PRR F38. Lilekely the same kit in two different boxes. I can’t recall whether my D&H version includes PRR decals. I’ll need to dig it out and take a look.

Dan Mitchell
==========



On Feb 8, 2020, at 11:26 AM, Bill Kelly <wbkelly@...> wrote:

The Eastern Car Works #4700 is labeled as a PRR F38 but will build either car. The kit is an F38 but the instructions and marks on the deck parts show how to shorten the deck for the D&H version. The included decals had both PRR and D&H.
Later,
Bill Kelly
Re: D&H Flat

Dave Boss
 

Hello, and thanks for all your help on this car. I think I'll message Steve at F&C maybe it's in the works ? Dave


On Sat, Feb 8, 2020 at 1:06 PM Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:
Dan (other Dan),

Thanks. Interesting. Definitely NOT the D&H flat car that started this discussion though 😉  Obviously, I was unaware that ECW did this and frankly the kit was so problematic that I was happy to stick with my brass F38.  It would appear from the instructions that there were a significant number of 36' deck variants of this car beyond D&H that this kit could also model.

The modified kit does appear to be prototypical for D&H 16157 (not D&H 16153)

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Dan Smith <espeefan@...>
Sent: Saturday, February 8, 2020 11:56 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] D&H Flat
 
All,

An ECW 4700 sold on ebay a while ago, here is the link to that sold listing.

Take a look and it shows the instructions well. You can see the 2 build versions that can be done.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Eastern-Car-Works-Heavy-Duty-Cars-Pennsylvania-F-38-4700-Undecorated-/303433667393?hash=item46a60e5341%3Ag%3Au24AAOSwWxxeEknn&nma=true&si=jM4eChH7Do6CPgEAYYSAj931zhg%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Dan Smith

Re: D&H Flat

Bruce Smith
 

Dan (other Dan),

Thanks. Interesting. Definitely NOT the D&H flat car that started this discussion though 😉  Obviously, I was unaware that ECW did this and frankly the kit was so problematic that I was happy to stick with my brass F38.  It would appear from the instructions that there were a significant number of 36' deck variants of this car beyond D&H that this kit could also model.

The modified kit does appear to be prototypical for D&H 16157 (not D&H 16153)

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Dan Smith <espeefan@...>
Sent: Saturday, February 8, 2020 11:56 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] D&H Flat
 
All,

An ECW 4700 sold on ebay a while ago, here is the link to that sold listing.

Take a look and it shows the instructions well. You can see the 2 build versions that can be done.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Eastern-Car-Works-Heavy-Duty-Cars-Pennsylvania-F-38-4700-Undecorated-/303433667393?hash=item46a60e5341%3Ag%3Au24AAOSwWxxeEknn&nma=true&si=jM4eChH7Do6CPgEAYYSAj931zhg%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Dan Smith

Re: D&H Flat

Dan Smith
 

All,

An ECW 4700 sold on ebay a while ago, here is the link to that sold listing.

Take a look and it shows the instructions well. You can see the 2 build versions that can be done.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Eastern-Car-Works-Heavy-Duty-Cars-Pennsylvania-F-38-4700-Undecorated-/303433667393?hash=item46a60e5341%3Ag%3Au24AAOSwWxxeEknn&nma=true&si=jM4eChH7Do6CPgEAYYSAj931zhg%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Dan Smith
Re: D&H Flat

Bob Webber
 

What, you think the Olds grill is a bit out of comparison?  The algorithms for determining "similarity" have always needed tweaking.  OTOH, the Gon is in the same basic category....


At 11:05 AM 2/8/2020, you wrote:
On Sat, Feb 8, 2020 at 09:33 AM, Bob Webber wrote:
Hmmm...
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/prr-f38-flat-car-kit-eastern-car-110650255

I particularly like the list of "Similar Items" at the bottom of the page.....

Tom Madden

Bob Webber

Re: D&H Flat

Bruce Smith
 

Dan,

You may have missed it, but this entire thread was started with respect to D&H 16153. Dave Boss asked "Does anyone know if there was ever a D&H #16153 250 ton four truck flat car model available...?". Francis then replied that there was an ECW kit of that car. At no point was the thread NOT in reference to D&H 16153. I suggest that you use the links at the bottom of this message and see that for yourself.

And no, ECW 4700 is the PRR F38

Finally, the photo in your email comes from a Model Railroad Hobbyist blog, where the author (not you), states that he is using the F38 kit to model two flats, one the PRR F38 and a second, SOUTHERN 50099 (no D&H mentioned) a flat with a shorter deck that he is BASHING from the F38. https://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/24094 I even did a Google image search with the photo from your message and the only thing it brought up was the MRH thread. I can find no sign of the photo you attached on eBay.

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, Al

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Daniel A. Mitchell <danmitch@...>
Sent: Saturday, February 8, 2020 10:20 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] D&H Flat
 
Nope!

I’m no D&H expert. I was referring to the ECW HO plastic KIT (what was being discussed), not any prototype. We are NOT discussing the D&H #16153, a more conventional 4-truck 8-axle car. 

The 4-truck HO model ECW produced was offered as BOTH a PRR F38 and a D&H car. I suspect they were the same, except for the length of the main deck.

Their part no.4700 is the D&H model,  a 12-axle 4-truck car. I have no idea if it even has a prototype, D&H or other, but it exists as a model.

I have a Railworks PRR F38 and the ECW 4-truck flat. They are virtually identical except for the deck-length and end platforms. Hey both have 12 axles and four trucks.

Here, copied off an eBay listing are photos of BOTH versions.



Dan MItchell
==========
Re: D&H Flat

rdgbuff56
 

Would you want to sell it?

Francis A. Pehowic, Jr.

On Saturday, February 8, 2020, 12:12:16 PM EST, Daniel A. Mitchell <danmitch@...> wrote:


Bob Kelly states : "The Eastern Car Works #4700 is labeled as a PRR F38 but will build either car. The kit is an F38 but the instructions and marks on the deck parts show how to shorten the deck for the D&H version. The included decals had both PRR and D&H".

That’s interesting! Mine is in a box labeled “D&H", not PRR. So, there must have been several versions of packaging. As I earlier stated the cars are identical except for the main-deck length. I have not looked into my kit for several years (it’s buried), but it may well be true that it will build either version. However, it was definitely marketed as a D&H car, and the replies make it clear that it was marketed separately as a PRR F38. Lilekely the same kit in two different boxes. I can’t recall whether my D&H version includes PRR decals. I’ll need to dig it out and take a look.

Dan Mitchell
==========



On Feb 8, 2020, at 11:26 AM, Bill Kelly <wbkelly@...> wrote:

The Eastern Car Works #4700 is labeled as a PRR F38 but will build either car. The kit is an F38 but the instructions and marks on the deck parts show how to shorten the deck for the D&H version. The included decals had both PRR and D&H.
Later,
Bill Kelly
Re: D&H Flat

Daniel A. Mitchell
 

Bob Kelly states : "The Eastern Car Works #4700 is labeled as a PRR F38 but will build either car. The kit is an F38 but the instructions and marks on the deck parts show how to shorten the deck for the D&H version. The included decals had both PRR and D&H".

That’s interesting! Mine is in a box labeled “D&H", not PRR. So, there must have been several versions of packaging. As I earlier stated the cars are identical except for the main-deck length. I have not looked into my kit for several years (it’s buried), but it may well be true that it will build either version. However, it was definitely marketed as a D&H car, and the replies make it clear that it was marketed separately as a PRR F38. Lilekely the same kit in two different boxes. I can’t recall whether my D&H version includes PRR decals. I’ll need to dig it out and take a look.

Dan Mitchell
==========



On Feb 8, 2020, at 11:26 AM, Bill Kelly <wbkelly@...> wrote:

The Eastern Car Works #4700 is labeled as a PRR F38 but will build either car. The kit is an F38 but the instructions and marks on the deck parts show how to shorten the deck for the D&H version. The included decals had both PRR and D&H.
Later,
Bill Kelly
Re: D&H Flat

Tom Madden
 

On Sat, Feb 8, 2020 at 09:33 AM, Bob Webber wrote:
Hmmm...
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/prr-f38-flat-car-kit-eastern-car-110650255
I particularly like the list of "Similar Items" at the bottom of the page.....

Tom Madden
Re: D&H Flat

Bob Webber
 

Re: D&H Flat

Bill Kelly
 


The Eastern Car Works #4700 is labeled as a PRR F38 but will build either car. The kit is an F38 but the instructions and marks on the deck parts show how to shorten the deck for the D&H version. The included decals had both PRR and D&H.
Later,
Bill Kelly
 
Daniel A. Mitchell wrote:
The two cars are very similar, but not identical. Both have four 3-axle Buckeye trucks mounted on span bolsters. The PRR F38 has a main deck that extends almost the full-length of the car, with minimal exposed decks on the span bolsters. The D&H version has a shorter main deck, and much larger end platforms (“porches”) on the span bolsters.

The Eastern car works part number for the D&H car was 4700.

Dan Mitchell
Re: D&H Flat

rdgbuff56
 

It appears to me that the D&H car is just a car with a shorter deck. If you had the F38, just modify deck by shortening it.

Francis A. Pehowic, Jr.

On Saturday, February 8, 2020, 11:20:54 AM EST, Daniel A. Mitchell <danmitch@...> wrote:


Nope!

I’m no D&H expert. I was referring to the ECW HO plastic KIT (what was being discussed), not any prototype. We are NOT discussing the D&H #16153, a more conventional 4-truck 8-axle car. 

The 4-truck HO model ECW produced was offered as BOTH a PRR F38 and a D&H car. I suspect they were the same, except for the length of the main deck.

Their part no.4700 is the D&H model,  a 12-axle 4-truck car. I have no idea if it even has a prototype, D&H or other, but it exists as a model.

I have a Railworks PRR F38 and the ECW 4-truck flat. They are virtually identical except for the deck-length and end platforms. Hey both have 12 axles and four trucks.

Here, copied off an eBay listing are photos of BOTH versions.



Dan MItchell
==========

On Feb 8, 2020, at 10:41 AM, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:

Um Dan,

Nope. D&H #16153 bears almost no resemblance to the PRR F38. The D&H car has 4 trucks, true, but they are 2-axle and not 3-axle. The body is welded, true, but the D&H body is full-length, with no end platforms. The D&H car is broadly similar to the PRR F34 but is not the same as that car either. 

So, let's review...

D&H 16153 (no known kit)
http://www.trainweb.org/dhvm/images/dhrr_freight/Mark-Wright/16153-01.jpg
http://www.trainweb.org/dhvm/images/dhrr_freight/Mark-Wright/16153-02.jpg


PRR F34 (Athearn, Bachmann, F&C) - 187.5 ton capacity (later increased to 200 tons), 8 axle flat
http://prr.railfan.net/photos/PRR_470202_F34_E14300_041543.jpg

ECW kit #4700 - PRR F38 - 250 ton 12 axle heavy duty flat
https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/fileSendAction/fcType/0/fcOid/40849085988896965/filePointer/40849085988897131/fodoid/40849085988897125/imageType/LARGE/inlineImage/true/prr%2520F-38%2520flatcar%2520proto%25201.jp


ECW kit 4800 - 90 ton depressed center flat car
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-yfdx6_GWmk4/TuFWnbFcLRI/AAAAAAAAAd4/_8EmJ_6ZMA4/s1600/NYC+499056.jpg
 

As you can see, these are three VERY different cars. The D&H car bears NO resemblance to the PRR F38 other than being multi-trucked with span bolsters. On close examination of the D&H car, it appears to be similar to but a bit longer and without the obvious cast body flange of the pre WWII era GSC car (PRR F34, CNW, SP, etc...).

Bottom line, unless there is physical evidence to the existence of an ECW model of this D&H flat car, I'm going to remain skeptical that such a thing ever existed.

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
 
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Daniel A. Mitchell <danmitch@...>
Sent: Saturday, February 8, 2020 9:11 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] D&H Flat
 
The two cars are very similar, but not identical. Both have four 3-axle Buckeye trucks mounted on span bolsters. The PRR F38 has a main deck that extends almost the full-length of the car, with minimal exposed decks on the span bolsters. The D&H version has a shorter main deck, and much larger end platforms (“porches”) on the span bolsters.

The Eastern car works part number for the D&H car was 4700.

Dan Mitchell
==========

On Feb 8, 2020, at 9:32 AM, rdgbuff56 via Groups.Io <rdgbuff56@...> wrote:

Aren't the two cars identical? When first released the ECW car was advertised as a D&H car.

Francis A. Pehowic, Jr. 
On Saturday, February 8, 2020, 09:18:51 AM EST, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote: 


I'm with Tom on this...

I could be wrong, but ECW produced two heavy duty flat cars that I am aware of, the Commonwealth 90 ton depressed center car (NYC, NH, etc...) series 4800 kits and the 4 truck PRR F38 (series 4700 kits).

I searched with multiple terms and while the extremely hard to find F38 came up multiple times and the 90 ton depressed center car dominated, I could find no evidence on-line of an ECW kit for the subject car.

Both Athearn and Bachmann have produced the car in question in HO, albeit somewhat grossly misshapen.

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of rdgbuff56 via Groups.Io <rdgbuff56@...>
Sent: Saturday, February 8, 2020 1:13 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] D&H Flat
 
Yes.  16??? Series.

Francis A. Pehowic, Jr.

On Saturday, February 8, 2020, 6:51:28 AM UTC, Tom Madden via Groups.Io <pullmanboss@...> wrote:


On Fri, Feb 7, 2020 at 03:58 PM, rdgbuff56 wrote:
Eastern Car Works had this kit available some years ago.

Francis A. Pehowic, Jr.
Eastern Car Works made a 90 ton two truck depressed center flat car. Did they also make the 250 ton four truck one the O.P. was asking about?

Tom Madden
 
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