Date   

Re: Keith Retterer at CCB/Prototype Rsils 2020

Schleigh Mike
 

Hello Group!

As a followup to Bill Welch's report below, I have just received six beautiful SSC prints from Keith.  He was quick to answer and did so with what has always been his kind and interested means of responding.  This in spite of having some travel conflicts.  If you have any interest in the Standard Steel Company images, drop him a note (USPS) and give him an opportunity to help you too.

Mike Schleigh in Grove City, Penna. 

On Wednesday, January 22, 2020, 01:27:37 PM EST, Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:


I recall that recently people were wondering about Keith and his photo collection. In fact he was at PR-2020 selling a catalog of his photos. He no longer has a dark room and has gone digital. Here is his mailing address

D. K. Retterer
1442 East Bank Drive
Marietta, GA 30068

Bill Welch


Re: What is the major difference between these cars ???

Paul Doggett
 

Garth 

Thank you I thought the C&EI car had a radial roof looking at the photo.
I have two Wabash F&C kits which I thought would be a reasonable starting point 1 Wabash and 1 C&EI

Thank you Paul Doggett

On 18 Feb 2020, at 19:38, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...> wrote:


Paul,

Just checked my 1958 ORER. The CE&I car is an XM car, and does not list any end doors. There is no mention of end doors on the Wabash car, but they may be there welded shut (some similar Wabash cars had them). It is an XAR car and was still equipped with auto racks, which would imply chain tubes below the floor. Some Wabash cars also had a lever brake instead of a wheel. The Wabash car also has a radial roof. If you are doing a conversion and the CE&I car has a peaked roof, you will have a very useful radial roof casting for your parts supply. Note that the CE&I car has a short rib in the lower door panel, and there are six ribs on that panel versus five of matching length on the Wabash; both door openings are 12' wide. Lastly, the Wabash car appears to be about 3" taller, and 3" longer overall, but this is negligible for a kitbash.

You need more photos of the C&EI car, especially showing the ends.

Yours Aye,

Garth Groff  🦆


On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 10:57 AM Paul Doggett via Groups.Io <paul.doggett2472=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi what are the ends on the C&EI car and are the any other major differences between them.

Paul Doggett     England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿




Re: What is the major difference between these cars ???

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Paul,

Just checked my 1958 ORER. The CE&I car is an XM car, and does not list any end doors. There is no mention of end doors on the Wabash car, but they may be there welded shut (some similar Wabash cars had them). It is an XAR car and was still equipped with auto racks, which would imply chain tubes below the floor. Some Wabash cars also had a lever brake instead of a wheel. The Wabash car also has a radial roof. If you are doing a conversion and the CE&I car has a peaked roof, you will have a very useful radial roof casting for your parts supply. Note that the CE&I car has a short rib in the lower door panel, and there are six ribs on that panel versus five of matching length on the Wabash; both door openings are 12' wide. Lastly, the Wabash car appears to be about 3" taller, and 3" longer overall, but this is negligible for a kitbash.

You need more photos of the C&EI car, especially showing the ends.

Yours Aye,

Garth Groff  🦆


On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 10:57 AM Paul Doggett via Groups.Io <paul.doggett2472=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi what are the ends on the C&EI car and are the any other major differences between them.

Paul Doggett     England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿




Re: Virginia Chemical Tank Cars

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Doug,

Virginia Chemical was indeed at the end of the NF&D West Norfolk branch, and was AFIK the only customer at that time I was stationed in nearby Portsmouth (1982-1983). While I took photos of the depot/yard office, I don't think I shot the plant. What I remember chiefly was that the plant had a prominent and ominous wind sock, just in case toxic gasses were released. I just looked at Google Satellite View of the West Norfolk, and it appears that most of the chemical plant is gone, leaving just foundations though the tracks are still there. There is at least one other chemical customer further down the track beyond the VC site.

When I lived in the area this was wide-open country. Now it is crowded with all sorts of development, including a major container terminal. Just for nostalgia, I was stationed at the 5th Coast Guard District Offices in downtown Portsmouth, but our darkroom was at Coast Guard Base Portsmouth, a mile or so north of the Virginia Chemical plant. I souped a lot of Tri-X in that darkroom.

I did shoot some interesting and very old freight cars in MW service on the branch (an A&D pulpwood rack and an NF&D boxcar, or vice-versa). My camera had a loose lens element and those photos are pretty fuzzy. I'm scanning and Photoshopping my way through my negatives, and when I come to those cars in a few months I will see if they are worth sharing here.

Yours Aye,

Garth Groff  🦆


On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 10:39 AM Doug Pillow <jssp46@...> wrote:
Virginia Chemical was/is located in West Norfolk,apart of Portsmouth Va. It was serviced by the Atlantic & Danville, later the Norfolk, Franklin and Danville, NS, and now I believe by a short line sucessor to NF&D

Doug Pillow


Re: What is the major difference between these cars ???

Paul Doggett
 

Cheers Allen,  most are correctable but the ends are the major item I need to find out about.

Thanks Paul Doggett 


On 18 Feb 2020, at 18:09, Allen Cain <Allencaintn@...> wrote:


In addition to the floor previously noted there are several detail differences:

Roof Corners notched on C&EI
Tack Board Locations one high, one middle
Bottom Rib on Doors on C&EI is shorter
Side corner brace angles appear to be different
Horizontal "reinforcement" on lower part of side channel on WAB not on C&EI
Ladder on C&EI while drop grab irons on WAB
Door low handles on C&EI with mid door grabs on WAB and different styles

Cannot see the roof and ends on the C&EI but MIGHT be another difference.

Will leave it to others to count the rivets!

Allen Cain



Re: What is the major difference between these cars ???

Allen Cain
 

In addition to the floor previously noted there are several detail differences:

Roof Corners notched on C&EI
Tack Board Locations one high, one middle
Bottom Rib on Doors on C&EI is shorter
Side corner brace angles appear to be different
Horizontal "reinforcement" on lower part of side channel on WAB not on C&EI
Ladder on C&EI while drop grab irons on WAB
Door low handles on C&EI with mid door grabs on WAB and different styles

Cannot see the roof and ends on the C&EI but MIGHT be another difference.

Will leave it to others to count the rivets!

Allen Cain



Re: Piedmont & Northern 1101 ready for Priming

mopacfirst
 

That's the best answer I've heard all day.

Ron Merrick


Re: Virginia Chemical Tank Cars

Allen Cain
 

Thanks everyone for the EXCELLENT help.

It would appear that the transition from VSX to VCSX occurred late 1961 or early 1962.

Allen Cain


Re: Piedmont & Northern 1101 ready for Priming

Bill Welch
 

You caught me Doug. I call it "Modeler's Compromise"—what I do when trying to get all the details on yet accepting not everything lines up as expected. I do it instead of throwing it on the floor and stomping on it.

Bill Welch


Re: Piedmont & Northern 1101 ready for Priming

Douglas Harding
 

Bill as always, outstanding work. I do have what may be a technical question: Looking at the close up of the door area details, I noticed the door seems to be sitting lower than the angle iron side sheeting support just to the right of the door. My question how does the door slide past that angle iron? In the prototype photo it appears the angle iron is either below the door bottom, ie behind the door track, or it is cut short on that side. I can’t tell.

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill Welch
Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2020 8:44 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Piedmont & Northern 1101 ready for Priming

 

One last look at my Styrene and Resin Piedmont & Northern 40-foot boxcar with Vertical Murphy ends (thanks to Dr. Dave Campbell at Yuma Car & Foundry) and Hutchins roof before it is primed. Other highlights include shortened Tichy “Superior” doors, square brake shaft, and scratch built doorstops, placard boards, draft gear buffers and ladders. The Hutchins roof was harvested from an Accurail 8-panel single sheathed boxcar and copied in resin. It was also widened slightly by cutting it down the middle and adding styrene shim.

To make the “L” section batten strip I cut .005 sheet styrene into narrow strips and then glued the base to the car side with sparing amounts of Testor’s so as to not to distort it and then gave the cement 24-hours to cure. Next I added the second strip on edge and again allowed that to cure for a day. Again I was sparing with the Testors

There are 330 rivets harvested from Athearn “blue box” freight cars—the larger ones visible on the Gusset Plates are from their gondola while the smaller ones (and the majority) are from their steel boxcar. There are sixty such harvested rivets attached to the batten strip, twelve for each ladder, nine for door door jam, and so on. The larger rivets or bolt heads seen on the edges and sides of the ends are Tichy .020 rivets.

To me it is kind of magical when the primer or paint goes onto a model. Even though it obscures the details that get added in making a model like this, it immediately transforms it too.

Bill Welch


Re: Virginia Chemical Tank Cars

Allen Cain
 

Thanks to all who helped. Great info!

I also want to give a shout out to Broadway Limited. The sent a copy of the artwork drawing and ORER for the closest year they had with the company listed.

Allen Cain


Re: What is the major difference between these cars ???

Paul Doggett
 

Johannes

Thank you

Paul Doggett

On 18 Feb 2020, at 16:01, vapeurchapelon <j.markwart@...> wrote:

Hello Paul,

the floor of the Wabash car is a fishbelly type, whereas the C&EI is "flat".

Greetings

Johannes
modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953

Gesendet: Dienstag, 18. Februar 2020 um 16:57 Uhr
Von: "Paul Doggett via Groups.Io" <paul.doggett2472=icloud.com@groups.io>
An: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Betreff: [RealSTMFC] What is the major difference between these cars ???

Hi what are the ends on the C&EI car and are the any other major differences between them.

Paul Doggett England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿





Re: What is the major difference between these cars ???

vapeurchapelon
 

And the Wabash car has grab irons instead of side ladders.

Johannes

Gesendet: Dienstag, 18. Februar 2020 um 16:57 Uhr
Von: "Paul Doggett via Groups.Io" <paul.doggett2472=icloud.com@groups.io>
An: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Betreff: [RealSTMFC] What is the major difference between these cars ???

Hi what are the ends on the C&EI car and are the any other major differences between them.

Paul Doggett England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿




Re: What is the major difference between these cars ???

vapeurchapelon
 

Hello Paul,

the floor of the Wabash car is a fishbelly type, whereas the C&EI is "flat".

Greetings

Johannes
modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953

Gesendet: Dienstag, 18. Februar 2020 um 16:57 Uhr
Von: "Paul Doggett via Groups.Io" <paul.doggett2472=icloud.com@groups.io>
An: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Betreff: [RealSTMFC] What is the major difference between these cars ???

Hi what are the ends on the C&EI car and are the any other major differences between them.

Paul Doggett England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿




What is the major difference between these cars ???

Paul Doggett
 

Hi what are the ends on the C&EI car and are the any other major differences between them.

Paul Doggett England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿


Re: Virginia Chemical Tank Cars

Doug Pillow
 

Virginia Chemical was/is located in West Norfolk,apart of Portsmouth Va. It was serviced by the Atlantic & Danville, later the Norfolk, Franklin and Danville, NS, and now I believe by a short line sucessor to NF&D

Doug Pillow


Re: Piedmont & Northern 1101 ready for Priming

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 


Bill,
 
This is indeed a work of art!
 
Claus Schlund
 
 

----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Welch
Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2020 9:43 AM
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Piedmont & Northern 1101 ready for Priming

One last look at my Styrene and Resin Piedmont & Northern 40-foot boxcar with Vertical Murphy ends (thanks to Dr. Dave Campbell at Yuma Car & Foundry) and Hutchins roof before it is primed. Other highlights include shortened Tichy “Superior” doors, square brake shaft, and scratch built doorstops, placard boards, draft gear buffers and ladders. The Hutchins roof was harvested from an Accurail 8-panel single sheathed boxcar and copied in resin. It was also widened slightly by cutting it down the middle and adding styrene shim.

To make the “L” section batten strip I cut .005 sheet styrene into narrow strips and then glued the base to the car side with sparing amounts of Testor’s so as to not to distort it and then gave the cement 24-hours to cure. Next I added the second strip on edge and again allowed that to cure for a day. Again I was sparing with the Testors

There are 330 rivets harvested from Athearn “blue box” freight cars—the larger ones visible on the Gusset Plates are from their gondola while the smaller ones (and the majority) are from their steel boxcar. There are sixty such harvested rivets attached to the batten strip, twelve for each ladder, nine for door door jam, and so on. The larger rivets or bolt heads seen on the edges and sides of the ends are Tichy .020 rivets.

To me it is kind of magical when the primer or paint goes onto a model. Even though it obscures the details that get added in making a model like this, it immediately transforms it too.

Bill Welch


Re: Piedmont & Northern 1101 ready for Priming

vapeurchapelon
 

Hello Bill,
 
this is just great looking! Strange ends, retainer on the "wrong" side - a real stand-out car.
 
Greetings
 
Johannes
modeling the early poat-war years up to about 1953
 
Gesendet: Dienstag, 18. Februar 2020 um 15:43 Uhr
Von: "Bill Welch" <fgexbill@...>
An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Betreff: [RealSTMFC] Piedmont & Northern 1101 ready for Priming

One last look at my Styrene and Resin Piedmont & Northern 40-foot boxcar with Vertical Murphy ends (thanks to Dr. Dave Campbell at Yuma Car & Foundry) and Hutchins roof before it is primed. Other highlights include shortened Tichy “Superior” doors, square brake shaft, and scratch built doorstops, placard boards, draft gear buffers and ladders. The Hutchins roof was harvested from an Accurail 8-panel single sheathed boxcar and copied in resin. It was also widened slightly by cutting it down the middle and adding styrene shim.

To make the “L” section batten strip I cut .005 sheet styrene into narrow strips and then glued the base to the car side with sparing amounts of Testor’s so as to not to distort it and then gave the cement 24-hours to cure. Next I added the second strip on edge and again allowed that to cure for a day. Again I was sparing with the Testors

There are 330 rivets harvested from Athearn “blue box” freight cars—the larger ones visible on the Gusset Plates are from their gondola while the smaller ones (and the majority) are from their steel boxcar. There are sixty such harvested rivets attached to the batten strip, twelve for each ladder, nine for door door jam, and so on. The larger rivets or bolt heads seen on the edges and sides of the ends are Tichy .020 rivets.

To me it is kind of magical when the primer or paint goes onto a model. Even though it obscures the details that get added in making a model like this, it immediately transforms it too.

Bill Welch


Piedmont & Northern 1101 ready for Priming

Bill Welch
 

One last look at my Styrene and Resin Piedmont & Northern 40-foot boxcar with Vertical Murphy ends (thanks to Dr. Dave Campbell at Yuma Car & Foundry) and Hutchins roof before it is primed. Other highlights include shortened Tichy “Superior” doors, square brake shaft, and scratch built doorstops, placard boards, draft gear buffers and ladders. The Hutchins roof was harvested from an Accurail 8-panel single sheathed boxcar and copied in resin. It was also widened slightly by cutting it down the middle and adding styrene shim.

To make the “L” section batten strip I cut .005 sheet styrene into narrow strips and then glued the base to the car side with sparing amounts of Testor’s so as to not to distort it and then gave the cement 24-hours to cure. Next I added the second strip on edge and again allowed that to cure for a day. Again I was sparing with the Testors

There are 330 rivets harvested from Athearn “blue box” freight cars—the larger ones visible on the Gusset Plates are from their gondola while the smaller ones (and the majority) are from their steel boxcar. There are sixty such harvested rivets attached to the batten strip, twelve for each ladder, nine for door door jam, and so on. The larger rivets or bolt heads seen on the edges and sides of the ends are Tichy .020 rivets.

To me it is kind of magical when the primer or paint goes onto a model. Even though it obscures the details that get added in making a model like this, it immediately transforms it too.

Bill Welch


Re: Virginia Chemical Tank Cars

Allan Smith
 

Attached are copies of the 1938, 1944, 1952, 1958 ORERS for Virginia Smelting Co.

Al Smith
Sonora CA

On Monday, February 17, 2020, 01:40:14 PM PST, Dave Parker via Groups.Io <spottab@...> wrote:


As always, Ian Cranstone's tabulation of reporting marks is a very good place to start (I should of looked there first):







--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA