Date   

Re: Help with freight car list

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Bruce;

Well, well! I do need to get my eyes checked!

I wonder what the story was on those cars....

This is a tremendously interesting train.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bruce Smith
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 8:49 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Help with freight car list

Elden,

The docs you supplied said that they were “R” and “E” so that would mean empty reefers. The P&W web page on AAR Marks (Blockedhttps://www.pwrr.org/rrm/rrmh.html) says:
*(NATX) GENERAL ELECTRIC RAILCAR SERVICES CORP.
(HERSHEY FOOD PROD.- LESSEE) {NORTH AMERICAN CAR CO.]

Regards

Bruce




Bruce F. Smith

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."





On Feb 19, 2020, at 7:41 AM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@... <mailto:elden.j.gatwood@...> > wrote:

Bruce;

I was under the impression those HERX cars were Hercules tank cars, no? I need to get my eyes checked....

Yes, fabulous what some of these wreck reports tell us about what was in a consist!

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bruce Smith
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 8:33 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <mailto:main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Help with freight car list

Elden,

What a great set of documents! I see that Hershey’s (HERX) lost 5 reefers in this wreck!

Regards

Bruce




Bruce F. Smith

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."


Re: Help with freight car list

Bruce Smith
 

Elden,

The docs you supplied said that they were “R” and “E” so that would mean empty reefers. The P&W web page on AAR Marks (https://www.pwrr.org/rrm/rrmh.html) says:
*(NATX) GENERAL ELECTRIC RAILCAR SERVICES CORP. 
  (HERSHEY FOOD PROD.- LESSEE) {NORTH AMERICAN CAR CO.]

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




On Feb 19, 2020, at 7:41 AM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@...> wrote:

Bruce;

I was under the impression those HERX cars were Hercules tank cars, no?  I need to get my eyes checked....

Yes, fabulous what some of these wreck reports tell us about what was in a consist!

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bruce Smith
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 8:33 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Help with freight car list

Elden,

What a great set of documents!  I see that Hershey’s (HERX) lost 5 reefers in this wreck!

Regards

Bruce




Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."


Re: Help with freight car list

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Bruce;

I was under the impression those HERX cars were Hercules tank cars, no? I need to get my eyes checked....

Yes, fabulous what some of these wreck reports tell us about what was in a consist!

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bruce Smith
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 8:33 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Help with freight car list

Elden,

What a great set of documents! I see that Hershey’s (HERX) lost 5 reefers in this wreck!

Regards

Bruce




Bruce F. Smith

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."





On Feb 19, 2020, at 6:34 AM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@... <mailto:elden.j.gatwood@...> > wrote:

Folks;

Without my ORERs, I am lost. Could anyone identify any of the cars listed in this accident report?

I noted that this train was tank car heavy, and that an unusual number of cars were destroyed.

I am unfamiliar with some of the trains of the P&WV, and this is sure one of those. A very interesting group of cars!

Any help is greatly appreciated!

Elden Gatwood



<PWV Sudan_Derailment_10_5_63.pdf>


Re: Help with freight car list

Bruce Smith
 

Elden,

What a great set of documents!  I see that Hershey’s (HERX) lost 5 reefers in this wreck!

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




On Feb 19, 2020, at 6:34 AM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@...> wrote:

Folks;

Without my ORERs, I am lost.  Could anyone identify any of the cars listed in this accident report?  

I noted that this train was tank car heavy, and that an unusual number of cars were destroyed.

I am unfamiliar with some of the trains of the P&WV, and this is sure one of those.   A very interesting group of cars!

Any help is greatly appreciated!

Elden Gatwood



<PWV Sudan_Derailment_10_5_63.pdf>


Help with freight car list

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Folks;

Without my ORERs, I am lost. Could anyone identify any of the cars listed in this accident report?

I noted that this train was tank car heavy, and that an unusual number of cars were destroyed.

I am unfamiliar with some of the trains of the P&WV, and this is sure one of those. A very interesting group of cars!

Any help is greatly appreciated!

Elden Gatwood


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Virginia Chemical Tank Cars

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

They are, indeed. They carried a group of cylindrical cannisters that could be unloaded separately, and transported to various parts of a plant, most often water treatment plants.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2020 6:47 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Virginia Chemical Tank Cars


I think the "106A500" tank cars are cannister tank cars like this drawing.



On 2/17/2020 3:34 PM, Dave Parker via Groups.Io wrote:


A little later than you requested, but there they are:



--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA

Attachments:


* dummyfile.0.part <Blockedhttps://RealSTMFC.groups.io/g/main/attachment/169991/0>

_



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Virginia Chemical Tank Cars

Schleigh Mike
 

One of these canister cars was the basis of a scratchbuilding article in Model Railroader way back in the early 1950s.  The article was republished in a 'reprint' collection called "Build Your Own Model Cars and Locos."  I still have my tattered copy from some some 60 years back.  Neat stuff even now!  The model was largely brass, called a "chlorine car," carried 14 canisters, and was lettered for Penna. Salt Mfg. (PSMX 1011).  This car is listed in my copy of the January 1946 ORER.

Bob's Photo has sold a couple different images of this type of car.

Regards from Grove City, Penna. where winter is creeping back----Mike Schleigh

On Tuesday, February 18, 2020, 07:23:11 PM EST, mopacfirst <ron.merrick@...> wrote:


I have one of those.  (It's not here right now.)  I don't recall the 'cannisters' being that heavy, but I generally ran the car empty because it looked better that way.  I think they were just called 'one-ton containers'.  Googling that produces an article in the AWWA Journal from 1927, so the containers go back at least that far.  They were definitely still in use past the end of this list.

The aluminum model ones were a little too roundy at the ends for my taste, but the bulge in the heads is pretty accurate.

Ron Merrick


Re: Virginia Chemical Tank Cars

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 


Hi List Members,
 
I have a builders image of VSX 20, it is a canister car, ACF lot 188. It rides on archbar trucks. No date on the image.
 
I also have a builders image of VSX 103, it is more conventional tank car, ACF lot 9471 dated 30 Apr 1923. The car is on archbar trucks.
 
Finally, I also have a builders image of VSX 106, a conventional tank car, ACF lot 20 dated 17 Aug 1925. The car is also on archbar trucks.
 
Claus Schlund
 
 
 
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2020 6:47 PM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Virginia Chemical Tank Cars


I think the "106A500" tank cars are cannister tank cars like this drawing.



On 2/17/2020 3:34 PM, Dave Parker via Groups.Io wrote:

A little later than you requested, but there they are:



--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA

Attachments:

_


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Virginia Chemical Tank Cars

mopacfirst
 

I have one of those.  (It's not here right now.)  I don't recall the 'cannisters' being that heavy, but I generally ran the car empty because it looked better that way.  I think they were just called 'one-ton containers'.  Googling that produces an article in the AWWA Journal from 1927, so the containers go back at least that far.  They were definitely still in use past the end of this list.

The aluminum model ones were a little too roundy at the ends for my taste, but the bulge in the heads is pretty accurate.

Ron Merrick


Re: Virginia Chemical Tank Cars

James E Kubanick
 

Those brass models were imported by MTS way back when. I made new tanks out of aluminum tubing, making the car lighter but still on the heavy side.

Jim Kubanick
Morgantown WV



On Tuesday, February 18, 2020, 7:06:18 PM EST, gary laakso <vasa0vasa@...> wrote:


As I recall a brass importer brought in cannister cars with the cannisters made out of solid aluminum, making the car much heavier than most brass heavyweight passenger cars.

 

Gary Laakso

Northwest of Mike Brock

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2020 3:47 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Virginia Chemical Tank Cars

 


I think the "106A500" tank cars are cannister tank cars like this drawing.



On 2/17/2020 3:34 PM, Dave Parker via Groups.Io wrote:

A little later than you requested, but there they are:



--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA

Attachments:

_

 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Virginia Chemical Tank Cars

gary laakso
 

As I recall a brass importer brought in cannister cars with the cannisters made out of solid aluminum, making the car much heavier than most brass heavyweight passenger cars.

 

Gary Laakso

Northwest of Mike Brock

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2020 3:47 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Virginia Chemical Tank Cars

 


I think the "106A500" tank cars are cannister tank cars like this drawing.



On 2/17/2020 3:34 PM, Dave Parker via Groups.Io wrote:

A little later than you requested, but there they are:



--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA

Attachments:

_

 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Virginia Chemical Tank Cars

Tim O'Connor
 


I think the "106A500" tank cars are cannister tank cars like this drawing.



On 2/17/2020 3:34 PM, Dave Parker via Groups.Io wrote:
A little later than you requested, but there they are:



--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA

Attachments:

_


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Southern LC "Boxcar" With Vent?

charlie9
 

I think that was a little "awning" to keep the kaolin from washing down and covering the ACI label.   MP did similar to it's covered hoppers in lime service.
Charlie Schildt


Re: Southern LC "Boxcar" With Vent?

Hudson Leighton <hudsonl@...>
 

That is not a vent, the ACI tag has broken in tow and the top part is bent out.

-Hudson


Re: Piedmont & Northern 1101 ready for Priming

Bill Welch
 

More penance needed, I said Superior door but in fact it is a Youngstown door. I also failed to note these were originally Pere Marquette Automobile DD cars.

Bill Welch


Re: Piedmont & Northern 1101 ready for Priming

Douglas Harding
 

Bill all is forgiven. I was trying to think of an appropriate penance, but anyone who harvests 330 rivets from Athearn bluebox bodies for one model has done penance and then some. The boys in the Clearwater Car Shops have done good.

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill Welch
Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2020 11:21 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Piedmont & Northern 1101 ready for Priming

 

You caught me Doug. I call it "Modeler's Compromise"—what I do when trying to get all the details on yet accepting not everything lines up as expected. I do it instead of throwing it on the floor and stomping on it.

Bill Welch


Re: Keith Retterer at CCB/Prototype Rsils 2020

Schleigh Mike
 

Hello Group!

As a followup to Bill Welch's report below, I have just received six beautiful SSC prints from Keith.  He was quick to answer and did so with what has always been his kind and interested means of responding.  This in spite of having some travel conflicts.  If you have any interest in the Standard Steel Company images, drop him a note (USPS) and give him an opportunity to help you too.

Mike Schleigh in Grove City, Penna. 

On Wednesday, January 22, 2020, 01:27:37 PM EST, Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:


I recall that recently people were wondering about Keith and his photo collection. In fact he was at PR-2020 selling a catalog of his photos. He no longer has a dark room and has gone digital. Here is his mailing address

D. K. Retterer
1442 East Bank Drive
Marietta, GA 30068

Bill Welch


Re: What is the major difference between these cars ???

Paul Doggett
 

Garth 

Thank you I thought the C&EI car had a radial roof looking at the photo.
I have two Wabash F&C kits which I thought would be a reasonable starting point 1 Wabash and 1 C&EI

Thank you Paul Doggett

On 18 Feb 2020, at 19:38, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...> wrote:


Paul,

Just checked my 1958 ORER. The CE&I car is an XM car, and does not list any end doors. There is no mention of end doors on the Wabash car, but they may be there welded shut (some similar Wabash cars had them). It is an XAR car and was still equipped with auto racks, which would imply chain tubes below the floor. Some Wabash cars also had a lever brake instead of a wheel. The Wabash car also has a radial roof. If you are doing a conversion and the CE&I car has a peaked roof, you will have a very useful radial roof casting for your parts supply. Note that the CE&I car has a short rib in the lower door panel, and there are six ribs on that panel versus five of matching length on the Wabash; both door openings are 12' wide. Lastly, the Wabash car appears to be about 3" taller, and 3" longer overall, but this is negligible for a kitbash.

You need more photos of the C&EI car, especially showing the ends.

Yours Aye,

Garth Groff  🦆


On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 10:57 AM Paul Doggett via Groups.Io <paul.doggett2472=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi what are the ends on the C&EI car and are the any other major differences between them.

Paul Doggett     England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿




Re: What is the major difference between these cars ???

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Paul,

Just checked my 1958 ORER. The CE&I car is an XM car, and does not list any end doors. There is no mention of end doors on the Wabash car, but they may be there welded shut (some similar Wabash cars had them). It is an XAR car and was still equipped with auto racks, which would imply chain tubes below the floor. Some Wabash cars also had a lever brake instead of a wheel. The Wabash car also has a radial roof. If you are doing a conversion and the CE&I car has a peaked roof, you will have a very useful radial roof casting for your parts supply. Note that the CE&I car has a short rib in the lower door panel, and there are six ribs on that panel versus five of matching length on the Wabash; both door openings are 12' wide. Lastly, the Wabash car appears to be about 3" taller, and 3" longer overall, but this is negligible for a kitbash.

You need more photos of the C&EI car, especially showing the ends.

Yours Aye,

Garth Groff  🦆


On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 10:57 AM Paul Doggett via Groups.Io <paul.doggett2472=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi what are the ends on the C&EI car and are the any other major differences between them.

Paul Doggett     England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿




Re: Virginia Chemical Tank Cars

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Doug,

Virginia Chemical was indeed at the end of the NF&D West Norfolk branch, and was AFIK the only customer at that time I was stationed in nearby Portsmouth (1982-1983). While I took photos of the depot/yard office, I don't think I shot the plant. What I remember chiefly was that the plant had a prominent and ominous wind sock, just in case toxic gasses were released. I just looked at Google Satellite View of the West Norfolk, and it appears that most of the chemical plant is gone, leaving just foundations though the tracks are still there. There is at least one other chemical customer further down the track beyond the VC site.

When I lived in the area this was wide-open country. Now it is crowded with all sorts of development, including a major container terminal. Just for nostalgia, I was stationed at the 5th Coast Guard District Offices in downtown Portsmouth, but our darkroom was at Coast Guard Base Portsmouth, a mile or so north of the Virginia Chemical plant. I souped a lot of Tri-X in that darkroom.

I did shoot some interesting and very old freight cars in MW service on the branch (an A&D pulpwood rack and an NF&D boxcar, or vice-versa). My camera had a loose lens element and those photos are pretty fuzzy. I'm scanning and Photoshopping my way through my negatives, and when I come to those cars in a few months I will see if they are worth sharing here.

Yours Aye,

Garth Groff  🦆


On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 10:39 AM Doug Pillow <jssp46@...> wrote:
Virginia Chemical was/is located in West Norfolk,apart of Portsmouth Va. It was serviced by the Atlantic & Danville, later the Norfolk, Franklin and Danville, NS, and now I believe by a short line sucessor to NF&D

Doug Pillow