Date   

Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Santa Fe Freight Near Victorville - Mystery Loads

mopacfirst
 

That's the most plausible explanation I've heard so far.

Comparing the load to the flatcar says these things are about 4', maybe 4'-6" max, in diameter.  That's a reasonable size for water piping.  Two to a car longitudinally says they're 20' long more or less, which was and is a common length for joints of pipe.

I found a 1942 catalog of wood pipe which claimed extensive use, even at that date.  The war probably boosted its use a bit.   http://www.waterworkshistory.us/tech/Pipe/1942WoodPipe.pdf
Not incidentally, they also built water tanks, which if I recall correctly had some use on railroads when they used those external combustion locomotives.

I also ran across this photo -- http://www.waterworkshistory.us/tech/Pipe/1942WoodPipe.pdf

Ron Merrick, piping engineer


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Help with freight car list

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Thank you, Doug! Very helpful!

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Doug Chapman via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 9:34 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Help with freight car list

Elden,

NYC 43267 was a 50 ton, 40' box car, built by Despatch Shop in 1956, NYC Lot 858B. It was one of 1390 cars numbered 42000-43389. The drawing below comes from Terry Link's Canada Southern <Blockedhttp://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/NYC-MODELS-FREIGHT.htm> website.

Doug Chapman
Montclair, VA
<Blockedhttp://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/images/lot-858.jpg>


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Santa Fe Freight Near Victorville - Mystery Loads

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

They look like sections of redwood pipe to me. They were common in California back in the days before they switched to concrete pipe, for water transmission.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Andy Jackson
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 10:35 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Santa Fe Freight Near Victorville - Mystery Loads

Here's an enlargement of 2 of the mystery load cars. Details aren't clear enough to tell what kind of loads these are, but there's 2 per car.
Andy Jackson

Santa Fe Springs CA


Re: Santa Fe Freight Near Victorville - Mystery Loads

tyesac@aol.com <tyesac@...>
 

They appear to have wheels under each one, so, I wonder if these are something like a towed pneumatic compressor, or a heavy duty hydraulic pump.  Sunshine had a kit load for something like these, however those were single axle carts covered by square wooden shipping hoods.   A modeler would be able to create a similar looking load by just modeling the tires,wheels, axles tow hitch with some kind of plank hood.  Correct AAR blocking & tie downs would make it more convincing.   Signage painted on the plank covering would be a mystery for now though, beyond a "do not hump" placard.

Tom Casey


-----Original Message-----
From: Matthew Metoyer <mmetoyer@...>
To: main <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Sent: Thu, Feb 20, 2020 10:03 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Santa Fe Freight Near Victorville - Mystery Loads

The location appears to be Frost, immediately after the flyover, so this train is eastbound. What businesses in the LA area would ship something like this?

Matthew Metoyer
Santa Maria CA

On Thu, Feb 20, 2020 at 7:44 PM Greg Martin via Groups.Io <TGREGMRTN=AOL.COM@groups.io> wrote:
I guess it really doesn't matter if you simply built them and use them as an open load., does it. great conversation piece. Could be just about any round load.

Greg Martin

Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean



Sent from AOL Desktop
In a message dated 2/20/2020 11:27:06 AM Pacific Standard Time, chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io writes:

Santa Fe Freight Near Victorville - Mystery Loads
A photo from the Kansas Historical Society:
Click on the photo to enlarge it, then click on the "Enlarge" button to further enlarge it.
Caption: "Atchison, Topeka, & Santa Fe manifest train (a fast freight train hauling perishables or livestock) with caboose ATSF 1810 bringing up the rear of the train. This photograph was taken in the high desert of California near the Mohave River near Victorville, California by R. C. Bradley for AT&SF."
Does anyone know what are the loads on the six flat cars ahead of the three tank cars?
Thanks.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA

--
Hey Boss,


Somehow I got deleted from this group in late May. I guess someone didn't like me. Jail is a lonely place.

Greg Martin 


Re: Santa Fe Freight Near Victorville - Mystery Loads

Matthew Metoyer
 

The location appears to be Frost, immediately after the flyover, so this train is eastbound. What businesses in the LA area would ship something like this?

Matthew Metoyer
Santa Maria CA

On Thu, Feb 20, 2020 at 7:44 PM Greg Martin via Groups.Io <TGREGMRTN=AOL.COM@groups.io> wrote:
I guess it really doesn't matter if you simply built them and use them as an open load., does it. great conversation piece. Could be just about any round load.

Greg Martin

Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean



Sent from AOL Desktop
In a message dated 2/20/2020 11:27:06 AM Pacific Standard Time, chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io writes:

Santa Fe Freight Near Victorville - Mystery Loads

A photo from the Kansas Historical Society:

https://www.kansasmemory.org/item/51765

Click on the photo to enlarge it, then click on the "Enlarge" button to further enlarge it.

Caption: "Atchison, Topeka, & Santa Fe manifest train (a fast freight train hauling perishables or livestock) with caboose ATSF 1810 bringing up the rear of the train. This photograph was taken in the high desert of California near the Mohave River near Victorville, California by R. C. Bradley for AT&SF."

Does anyone know what are the loads on the six flat cars ahead of the three tank cars?

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


--
Hey Boss,


Somehow I got deleted from this group in late May. I guess someone didn't like me. Jail is a lonely place.

Greg Martin 


Re: Santa Fe Freight Near Victorville - Mystery Loads

Greg Martin
 

I guess it really doesn't matter if you simply built them and use them as an open load., does it. great conversation piece. Could be just about any round load.

Greg Martin

Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean



Sent from AOL Desktop

In a message dated 2/20/2020 11:27:06 AM Pacific Standard Time, chiefbobbb@... writes:

Santa Fe Freight Near Victorville - Mystery Loads

A photo from the Kansas Historical Society:

https://www.kansasmemory.org/item/51765

Click on the photo to enlarge it, then click on the "Enlarge" button to further enlarge it.

Caption: "Atchison, Topeka, & Santa Fe manifest train (a fast freight train hauling perishables or livestock) with caboose ATSF 1810 bringing up the rear of the train. This photograph was taken in the high desert of California near the Mohave River near Victorville, California by R. C. Bradley for AT&SF."

Does anyone know what are the loads on the six flat cars ahead of the three tank cars?

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


--
Hey Boss,


Somehow I got deleted from this group in late May. I guess someone didn't like me. Jail is a lonely place.

Greg Martin 


Re: Santa Fe Freight Near Victorville - Mystery Loads

 

Here's an enlargement of 2 of the mystery load cars. Details aren't clear enough to tell what kind of loads these are, but there's 2 per car.
Andy Jackson
Santa Fe Springs CA



Re: Help with freight car list

Doug Chapman
 

Elden,

NYC 43267 was a 50 ton, 40' box car, built by Despatch Shop in 1956, NYC Lot 858B. It was one of 1390 cars numbered 42000-43389. The drawing below comes from Terry Link's Canada Southern website.

Doug Chapman
Montclair, VA


Re: Santa Fe Freight Near Victorville - Mystery Loads

Brad Andonian
 

They seem like racks of ties that fit into retorts for creosoting..


Re: Santa Fe Freight Near Victorville - Mystery Loads

Paul Woods <paul@...>
 

Hi Folks

A clue to the nature of the loads lies in the wood sheathing; whatever it is requires substantial protection from mechanical damage.  Spools of wire makes good sense, especially if it is something like high-tension electrical cable which does not have insulation.  High quality steel cable such as used with cranes and elevators is another possibility.  A long shot would be specially finished metal liners for a very large diesel engine as found in ships, or maybe the sleeves used in large bearings.  Having worked as a mechanical engineer designing ships, I have seen cylinder liners larger than what would fit in those wood drums, and overseen the manufacture of bearings nearly that big for tugboats' towing winches.  However, I would have thought that steel cable or cylinder liners would require protection from water so they would be in a boxcar or at least covered with tarpaulins, so my money is on electrical cable because copper won't corrode much during the journey.

Whatever is inside, those drums make a great load for a flatcar!

Regards
Paul Woods

Whangarei, NZ.
NYCSHS #7172


Re: Santa Fe Freight Near Victorville - Mystery Loads

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
 

Bob,

One possibility is coils of wire on large spools turned sideways. I've seen, or seen photos, of coils like this enclosed in boards that were banded around the wooden edges of the spools with metal straps. If any of you have Gregg's TRAINSHED CYCLOPEDIA No. 36 (or the 1919 CAR BUILDER'S DICTIONARY), look on page 1112, figure 93. This diagram is for large boiler sections, but the loading principle is similar and is the closest I can find.

Yours Aye,

Garth Groff  🦆


On Thu, Feb 20, 2020 at 2:27 PM Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Santa Fe Freight Near Victorville - Mystery Loads

A photo from the Kansas Historical Society:

https://www.kansasmemory.org/item/51765

Click on the photo to enlarge it, then click on the "Enlarge" button to further enlarge it.

Caption: "Atchison, Topeka, & Santa Fe manifest train (a fast freight train hauling perishables or livestock) with caboose ATSF 1810 brining up the rear of the train. This photograph was taken in the high desert of California near the Mohave River near Victorville, California by R. C. Bradley for AT&SF."

Does anyone know what are the loads on the six flat cars ahead of the three tank cars?

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: [External] Re: [RealSTMFC] REA questions

Jim Lancaster
 

On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 08:09 PM, Dennis Storzek wrote:
On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 05:32 PM, naptownprr wrote:

So how were the cars lettered before 1953?

http://www.gregariousrailfan.com/images/REA_rail_car.jpg

Dennis
After the Second World War the Railway Express Agency rebuilt a number of troop sleepers into express refrigerator cars. The late Lou Cross took this photo in Los Angeles in the early 1950s. I originally posted the image on my web page http://coastdaylight.com/reareefer.html almost twenty years ago.

Jim Lancaster


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Sudan. PA

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Mike, et al;

I am not familiar enough with how P&WV trains were blocked, or what many of them were composed of, but P&WV had some very diverse make-ups, due to the customers involved. USS Donora had a diverse portfolio of products, too. You could see gons of sheet, wire "mattress", or "wire", plus tank cars of acid (103-B) and by-product (103's). There were also western, mid-western and southern box cars in consists, on their way home with bagged ammonium sulfate for soil amendment.

But those Hersheys box cars are a mystery to me. It is beyond me why they would be down there on their way to or from Donora.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of m repka via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 2:52 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Sudan. PA

Sort of a remote area! Not far from Monongehela Pa. this is where the Donora Southern and United States Steel RR came off of the P&WV main, and went about 5 miles to the USS mill in Donora and also the slag dump some of which is still there right along the river. The line was up on the hill from the river and it also had two tunnels, one short and the other one maybe a half mile long, and those tunnels are still there also. That Narrow Gauge Rd. is the ROW of the DS and I have driven on it but do not know how it got that name as pretty sure the line was never narrow gauge Mike in St. Petersburg Fla


Re: Santa Fe Freight Near Victorville - Mystery Loads

Bruce Smith
 

Bob,

Given the inability to enlarge the picture due to pixelation, I doubt that anyone will be able to answer that question. Some options that it might be:
- wood pipe
- wood tank (barrels seem unlikely as they usually had a taper at each end and this load does not appear to have that
- something wrapped in wood for protection, typically of bearing surfaces. I thought a large shaft, but the load would probably be too heavy for the cars it is loaded on.

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




On Feb 20, 2020, at 1:26 PM, Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io <chiefbobbb@...> wrote:

Santa Fe Freight Near Victorville - Mystery Loads

A photo from the Kansas Historical Society:

https://www.kansasmemory.org/item/51765

Click on the photo to enlarge it, then click on the "Enlarge" button to further enlarge it.

Caption: "Atchison, Topeka, & Santa Fe manifest train (a fast freight train hauling perishables or livestock) with caboose ATSF 1810 brining up the rear of the train. This photograph was taken in the high desert of California near the Mohave River near Victorville, California by R. C. Bradley for AT&SF."

Does anyone know what are the loads on the six flat cars ahead of the three tank cars?

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA



Re: Sudan. PA

m repka
 

Sort of a remote area! Not far from Monongehela Pa. this is where the Donora Southern and United States Steel RR came off of the P&WV main, and went about 5 miles to the USS mill in Donora and also the slag dump some of which is still there right along the river. The line was up on the hill from the river and it also had two tunnels, one short and the other one maybe a half mile long, and those tunnels are still there also. That Narrow Gauge Rd. is the ROW of the DS and I have driven on it but do not know how it got that name as pretty sure the line was never narrow gauge Mike in St. Petersburg Fla


Re: Santa Fe Freight Near Victorville - Mystery Loads

Todd Sullivan
 

Or depth charges!  LOL

Todd Sullivan


Re: Santa Fe Freight Near Victorville - Mystery Loads

vapeurchapelon
 

Hello Bob,
 
to me it looks as these are two rows of whine barrels.
 
Greetings
 
Johannes
modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953
 
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 20. Februar 2020 um 20:26 Uhr
Von: "Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io" <chiefbobbb@...>
An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Betreff: [RealSTMFC] Santa Fe Freight Near Victorville - Mystery Loads

Santa Fe Freight Near Victorville - Mystery Loads

A photo from the Kansas Historical Society:

https://www.kansasmemory.org/item/51765

Click on the photo to enlarge it, then click on the "Enlarge" button to further enlarge it.

Caption: "Atchison, Topeka, & Santa Fe manifest train (a fast freight train hauling perishables or livestock) with caboose ATSF 1810 brining up the rear of the train. This photograph was taken in the high desert of California near the Mohave River near Victorville, California by R. C. Bradley for AT&SF."

Does anyone know what are the loads on the six flat cars ahead of the three tank cars?

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Santa Fe Freight Near Victorville - Mystery Loads

Bob Chaparro
 

Santa Fe Freight Near Victorville - Mystery Loads

A photo from the Kansas Historical Society:

https://www.kansasmemory.org/item/51765

Click on the photo to enlarge it, then click on the "Enlarge" button to further enlarge it.

Caption: "Atchison, Topeka, & Santa Fe manifest train (a fast freight train hauling perishables or livestock) with caboose ATSF 1810 brining up the rear of the train. This photograph was taken in the high desert of California near the Mohave River near Victorville, California by R. C. Bradley for AT&SF."

Does anyone know what are the loads on the six flat cars ahead of the three tank cars?

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Virginia Chemical Tank Cars

Andy Laurent
 

It appears that in later years the canister retainer clips were augmented with 2 straps over the top of the canisters.

Andy L
Wisconsin


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] chlorine cannister flats (was Virginia Chemical Tank Cars)

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Tim;

They do indeed vary by time period. Some are deeply indented; others less so. From what I've been told, they were almost exclusively used for Chlorine.

Not all were built by AC&F. I will dig my stuff up and look into it.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:03 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] chlorine cannister flats (was Virginia Chemical Tank Cars)


I have numerous photos of these cannister flat cars, and they are always loaded with
their cannisters. The precise style of cannisters does vary - perhaps related to the
commodity, or time period? They all have 15 cannisters in my photos.

Was ACF the builder of all these cars?

Tim O'


On 2/19/2020 2:45 PM, James E Kubanick wrote:


When I lived out East during the 1980's there was a small water treatment plant in Lansdale PA that still received these cars. I believe that the cars were returned with empty canisters aboard. I never saw a car without them, but practices may vary - especially during our timeframe.



Jim Kubanick



On Tuesday, February 18, 2020, 8:24:24 PM EST, Schleigh Mike via Groups.Io <mike_schleigh=yahoo.com@groups.io> <mailto:mike_schleigh=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:




One of these canister cars was the basis of a scratchbuilding article in Model Railroader way back in the early 1950s. The article was republished in a 'reprint' collection called "Build Your Own Model Cars and Locos." I still have my tattered copy from some some 60 years back. Neat stuff even now! The model was largely brass, called a "chlorine car," carried 14 canisters, and was lettered for Penna. Salt Mfg. (PSMX 1011). This car is listed in my copy of the January 1946 ORER.


Bob's Photo has sold a couple different images of this type of car.


Regards from Grove City, Penna. where winter is creeping back----Mike Schleigh



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

19641 - 19660 of 189669