Tim and Ed,

Two possibilities for the USAX cars:

Many large bases had their own water treatment facilities, which would have used chlorine. They used chlorine for more than just officers' swimming pools.

Even though we weren't supposed to have poison gas the US was still making chemical weapons up until 1969 "just in case". Chlorine was a component of some of these weapons, and maybe others I've never heard of.

Love the photo. I wonder what those rich people living up on the distant hills thought about the view in Taylor Yard's direction. Well, the railroad was there first.

 

Yours Aye,

Garth Groff  🦆

On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 1:52 PM Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Thanks for that roster Ed!

The attached photo may be one of those mysterious USA cars. From the Gerstley duplicates.

Tim O'Connor


On 2/21/2020 1:33 PM, Ed Hawkins wrote:

On Feb 19, 2020, at 4:02 PM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

I have numerous photos of these cannister flat cars, and they are always loaded with
their cannisters. The precise style of cannisters does vary - perhaps related to the
commodity, or time period? They all have 15 cannisters in my photos.

Tim,

ACF wasn’t the only builder of cars of this type that were primarily used for chlorine containers. ACF records document the company built approximately 350 "Multi-Unit Tank Cars" from 1924 to 1958 comprised of 87 orders having lot numbers assigned. Roughly half of the cars were built before 1940 with the largest pre-1940 order being 16 cars.

Ten of these cars were built “for stock” for the U.S.A. Chief of Engineers. I don’t know the disposition of these lot 2370 cars built in July 1941. 

Six ACF builder photos of these cars are on the Barriger Flickr web site with 3/4-views & “B” end views of 3 of the earliest cars - lot 10, MALX 365; lot 188, VSX 204; lot 401, GWEX 4?? (angled view hides car number). 

List of ACF M-U tank cars by reporting marks to include the quantity of cars, number of orders, and range of build dates:

ACCX - 10 cars, 4 lots 1926-1935

ACF - 10 cars, 1 lot, built 1941 (U.S.A. Chief of Engineers)

BAKX - 2 cars, 2 lots 1931-1932

BCX - 7 cars, 3 lots 1926-1931

CACX (or possibly PPGX) - 21 cars, 2 lots 1936-1937

CALX - 3 cars, 3 lots 1927-1934

CILX (Canada) - 2 cars, 2 lots 1932, 1945

DAX - 23 cars, 11 lots 1928-1946

DUPX - 15 cars, 3 lots 1926-1933

GCX - 26 cars, 1 lot, built 1948

GWEX - 8 cars, 2 lots 1927-1928

HOKX - 8 cars, 2 lots 1925-1926

MALX - 10 cars, 1 lot, built 1925

MONX - 7 cars, 3 lots 1932-1936

PSMX - 32 cars, 12 lots 1924-1948

SHPX - 101 cars, 16 lots 1937-1948 (lessees - Westvaco, DuPont, Diamond Chemical, likely others)

SPX - 44 cars, 11 lots 1927-1948

TELX - 1 car, 1 lot, built 1930

TENX - 4 cars, 1 lot, built 1949 (for sulphur dioxide containers)

VSX - 15 cars, 5 lots 1924-1929

WCX - 1 car, 1 lot, built 1930? (unsure about this order)

Regards,

Ed Hawkins

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Attachments:

• usax_16503 chlorine cannister flat TaylorYard-LosAngelesCA 1958.jpg

That's the most plausible explanation I've heard so far.

Comparing the load to the flatcar says these things are about 4', maybe 4'-6" max, in diameter.  That's a reasonable size for water piping.  Two to a car longitudinally says they're 20' long more or less, which was and is a common length for joints of pipe.

I found a 1942 catalog of wood pipe which claimed extensive use, even at that date.  The war probably boosted its use a bit. http://www.waterworkshistory.us/tech/Pipe/1942WoodPipe.pdf
Not incidentally, they also built water tanks, which if I recall correctly had some use on railroads when they used those external combustion locomotives.

Ron Merrick, piping engineer

On Feb 21, 2020, at 2:44 PM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@comcast.net> wrote:


Redwood pipe was used in the early years of the 20th century but the ATSF photo appears to
be from at least the 1940's if not later.

Here is a 1908 photo - https://www.sewerhistory.org/images/bm/bmc2/1908_bmc202.jpg

The use of magnificent old growth redwood for sewer pipes just makes me ill to think about. :-(

(yes, I'm a tree hugger)



On 2/21/2020 9:34 AM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD wrote:

They look like sections of redwood pipe to me. They were common in California back in the days before they switched to concrete pipe, for water transmission.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Andy Jackson
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 10:35 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Santa Fe Freight Near Victorville - Mystery Loads

Here's an enlargement of 2 of the mystery load cars. Details aren't clear enough to tell what kind of loads these are, but there's 2 per car.
Andy Jackson

Santa Fe Springs CA

--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*

They look like sections of redwood pipe to me. They were common in California back in the days before they switched to concrete pipe, for water transmission.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Andy Jackson
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 10:35 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Santa Fe Freight Near Victorville - Mystery Loads

Here's an enlargement of 2 of the mystery load cars. Details aren't clear enough to tell what kind of loads these are, but there's 2 per car.
Andy Jackson

Santa Fe Springs CA

Bob,

Given the inability to enlarge the picture due to pixelation, I doubt that anyone will be able to answer that question. Some options that it might be:

- wood pipe

- wood tank (barrels seem unlikely as they usually had a taper at each end and this load does not appear to have that

- something wrapped in wood for protection, typically of bearing surfaces. I thought a large shaft, but the load would probably be too heavy for the cars it is loaded on.

Regards

Bruce

Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."

On Feb 20, 2020, at 1:26 PM, Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io <chiefbobbb@...> wrote:

Santa Fe Freight Near Victorville - Mystery Loads

A photo from the Kansas Historical Society:

https://www.kansasmemory.org/item/51765

Click on the photo to enlarge it, then click on the "Enlarge" button to further enlarge it.

Caption: "Atchison, Topeka, & Santa Fe manifest train (a fast freight train hauling perishables or livestock) with caboose ATSF 1810 brining up the rear of the train. This photograph was taken in the high desert of California near the Mohave River near Victorville, California by R. C. Bradley for AT&SF."

Does anyone know what are the loads on the six flat cars ahead of the three tank cars?

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Elden,

NYC 43267 was a 50 ton, 40' box car, built by Despatch Shop in 1956, NYC Lot 858B. It was one of 1390 cars numbered 42000-43389. The drawing below comes from Terry Link's Canada Southern website.

Doug Chapman
Montclair, VA

_._,_._,_

---

On Feb 19, 2020, at 4:02 PM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

I have numerous photos of these cannister flat cars, and they are always loaded with
their cannisters. The precise style of cannisters does vary - perhaps related to the
commodity, or time period? They all have 15 cannisters in my photos.

Tim,

ACF wasn’t the only builder of cars of this type that were primarily used for chlorine containers. ACF records document the company built approximately 350 "Multi-Unit Tank Cars" from 1924 to 1958 comprised of 87 orders having lot numbers assigned. Roughly half of the cars were built before 1940 with the largest pre-1940 order being 16 cars.

Ten of these cars were built “for stock” for the U.S.A. Chief of Engineers. I don’t know the disposition of these lot 2370 cars built in July 1941. 

Six ACF builder photos of these cars are on the Barriger Flickr web site with 3/4-views & “B” end views of 3 of the earliest cars - lot 10, MALX 365; lot 188, VSX 204; lot 401, GWEX 4?? (angled view hides car number). 

List of ACF M-U tank cars by reporting marks to include the quantity of cars, number of orders, and range of build dates:

ACCX - 10 cars, 4 lots 1926-1935

ACF - 10 cars, 1 lot, built 1941 (U.S.A. Chief of Engineers)

BAKX - 2 cars, 2 lots 1931-1932

BCX - 7 cars, 3 lots 1926-1931

CACX (or possibly PPGX) - 21 cars, 2 lots 1936-1937

CALX - 3 cars, 3 lots 1927-1934

CILX (Canada) - 2 cars, 2 lots 1932, 1945

DAX - 23 cars, 11 lots 1928-1946

DUPX - 15 cars, 3 lots 1926-1933

GCX - 26 cars, 1 lot, built 1948

GWEX - 8 cars, 2 lots 1927-1928

HOKX - 8 cars, 2 lots 1925-1926

MALX - 10 cars, 1 lot, built 1925

MONX - 7 cars, 3 lots 1932-1936

PSMX - 32 cars, 12 lots 1924-1948

SHPX - 101 cars, 16 lots 1937-1948 (lessees - Westvaco, DuPont, Diamond Chemical, likely others)

SPX - 44 cars, 11 lots 1927-1948

TELX - 1 car, 1 lot, built 1930

TENX - 4 cars, 1 lot, built 1949 (for sulphur dioxide containers)

VSX - 15 cars, 5 lots 1924-1929

WCX - 1 car, 1 lot, built 1930? (unsure about this order)

Regards,

Ed Hawkins

Here are some pictures of the Chlorine canister cars along with one of the MTS model.  Note that in some you are seeing the top of the canister with the connection point and it some the domed bottom.

Allen Cain

Attachments:

• ACFX 401.jpg
• Chloine ACF Tank Car - MTS Imports.jpg
• SACX 138.JPG
• SPX 9533.JPG
• HOKX 391..JPG

Thanks.  I also didn't know that REA bought some used troop kitchen cars.

Jim Hunter

---

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...>
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 11:09 PM.
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [External] Re: [RealSTMFC] REA questions

 

On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 05:32 PM, naptownprr wrote:

So how were the cars lettered before 1953?

http://www.gregariousrailfan.com/images/REA_rail_car.jpg

Dennis