Re: NP Mystery Car


The use of hog fuel in the earlier era was generally for fuel in the boilers of sawmills. 
Later, some was burned in Tee Pee burners along with shavings and sawdust, though shavings became useful for animal bedding.
Hog fuel was typically bark and sapwood fiber that was collected during the process of debarking logs as they entered the mills or further collected at the edger.
Most wood chips at a mill are from the pieces of the ends of the logs that are collected as they are bucked to length after debarking.
Today, most hog fuel is further refined for what we now know as beauty bark.

Bryan Borovec

Re: CMO 20040 Express Box

Tim O'Connor

Tim - solution is the SUNSHINE mini-kit which included those ends.

On 2/26/2020 2:38 PM, killercarp via Groups.Io wrote:

Once you solve the truck problem there’s also the 10’6” high 5/5 square corner ends to vex a builder.

Tim VanMersbergen

*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*

Re: CMO 20040 Express Box

Tim O'Connor

The TICHY is a little too old, and the ATHEARN (attached) a little too modern?

Tim O'Connor

On 2/26/2020 1:58 PM, Dennis Storzek wrote:
On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 09:27 AM, Joseph wrote:
Any thoughts on the trucks under this guy in HO scale?
I can't tell what the top of the side frame looks like from the photo (too much shadow) but Tichy make a short wheelbase drop equalized truck that would fit:

Dennis Storzek

Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: Accurail Ribbed Sided Box Car

Dennis Storzek

We do. They will come out as I get time to work on them, and those are really filler jobs between large projects.
Dennis Storzek

Re: Accurail Ribbed Sided Box Car

Ken Adams


Thank you very much for the information on the mold history for what sounds like a series of Milwaukee rib sided cars from Accurail.  I have absolutely no complaint about the molded on grabs and short cuts in the brake gear underframe for the price of the car.  Again, personally I am not planning to be any sort of expert on these cars so not delving too deep.  I am however hoping our super detail experts on this and other resin/plastic model building group forums to come up with reasonable methods to enhance these wonderful cars and turn them into model works of art. 

If I ever get my Port Costa layout built to the point the mainline is working these cars will be "background" freight cars passing through as loads or returning empty on the SP mainline between the Bay Area and points east. 

Re: Photo: Freight Cars The Departure Yard At Boston Freight Terminal

Eric Lombard

Hello, Folks...
Attached is a spreadsheet in which the 25,000 New Haven wood-sheathed, steel underframe cars built 1902-1912 are documented. They were all retired from service by 10-1950. There is a lot here to keep your eyeballs busy and which also corrects some misconceptions about renumbering and construction (like the history of the SS cars). The spreadsheet was constructed in service to my work on a database of all the box cars built 1-1910 through 12-1944. 

Homewood, IL

On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 11:35 AM Randy Hammill <nhrr@...> wrote:
I certainly don't question the late date.

Those are definitely NH single sheathed box cars, I'm not sure any other road had a single sheathed box car with a Howe truss and that reverse diagonal in the end panels. They were rebuilt from double sheathed cars in the late '20s (although New Haven records list them as new), and they were in non-revenue service by this time, thus not listed in the ORER.


Based on NH documents, these are the single sheathed cars I can confirm still in work service through at least April 1962:

W-1209, 1211, and 1232 (assigned Cedar Hill)
W-1233, 1535, 1536 (assigned Boston)
W-1547 (assigned East Walpole, sold 6/14/60)

There might be a few others, but the majority of the cars appear to have been condemned in the 1956-9 period, after about a decade in work service. 


Randy Hammill
Prototype Junction

Modeling the New Haven Railroad 1946-1954

Re: Accurail Ribbed Sided Box Car

Clark Propst

I have to ask Dennis, do you have tooling for the other models. Short ribbed 40' and 50' cars?

Thanks for bring these back out!
CW Propst

Re: Photo: Freight Cars The Departure Yard At Boston Freight Terminal

Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>

To Bob Witt, Thanks so much for posting Chris Barkan's sheet on B&O hopper lettering diagrams
and thanks to Chris fr developing it. For whatever reason in northern Vermont we seemed to see
more B&O hoppers in the post war era than hoppers from any other road, On the way back from 
Montreal late yesterday afternoon I had an opportunity to visit with fellow list member Armand Premo
before continuing homeward and these very cars were one subject of discussion. We know, for
example, that most of the coal burned by the Central Vermont arrived in B&O hoppers. Wjile we do
not know where it originated we think it must have come across NY Harbor on car floats to the New
Haven at Oak Point for delivery to the CV at New London but are not certain of that. Likewise B&O
hoppers were quite common on the Rutland as we know from switch list that Armand has had for
most of the fifty years we have known each other. Thus it is good to have something as definitive '
as the sheet Chris has put together and shared with us all to be sure such cars are lettered 
appropriately for our time frame.

Cordially, Don Valentine

Re: Yankee Clipper Kit List

Benjamin Hom

Robert Kirkham wrote:
"Well, I don’t have a list, but I do have kits: the CPR mini-box and the CPR big Otis gon."

The CPR "Big Otis" gon was originally a Rensselaer Railroad Shop kit.

Ben Hom

N&W Boxcar

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford


The attached photos are of an N&W MoW boxcar I photographed in the 1990s at Elkton, Virginia. As the detail photo shows, this car was "built" in 1960, so it fits within our period of interest. I have no data on these cars (my ORER is October 1958), and would appreciate any information the group can supply. 

The car appears to have a 7' door, certainly welded sides, and what appears to be a "banana-taper" late improved Dreadnaught end. It does not appear in Ed Hawkins' article on similar AC&F cars in the July 1999 RMJ. It am wondering if it was home-built or even a major rebuild, as the N&W had just done to their round roof boxcars.

I was initially attracted to the car by the Henesy "Side-well" device (which is not within our period), as at the time I was writing an article on these accessories. Mr. Henesy and I had a telephone conversation about his invention. He mentioned that the N&W applied these to some of their MoW boxcars because staff cuts meant that some MoW staging locations only had a single employee, so if the door stuck he could have hard a hard time opening the door. This Slide-well is actually broken. The wheel and gear box should be attached to the right edge of the door. Mr. Henesy said that roughg use (slamming the unit against its right-side stop) often resulted in stripped gears, which may be the case here. Later units had clutch of some sort in the gearbox that prevented this damage. As an aside, I sold the article to MR, but they never published same.

Yours Aye,

Mungo Napier, Laird of Mallard Lodge  🦆

Re: Yankee Clipper Kit List

Robert kirkham

Well, I don’t have a list, but I do have kits: the CPR mini-box and the CPR big Otis gon.




From: <> On Behalf Of Bill Welch
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2020 10:11 AM
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Yankee Clipper Kit List


Wondering if anyone has a complete list of the kits with stock numbers offered several years ago by "Yankee Clipper?" I understand these were done for Bill Dulmaine by Steve Funaro but still interested in knowing the kits included originally under the Yankee Clipper label. Thank you.

Bill Welch

Re: Accurail Ribbed Sided Box Car

Dennis Storzek

On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 02:10 PM, Bill Welch wrote:
The doors are accurate. The "Rib Side" kits seem mixed regarding the grabs. I have only built the 40-ft DD and removed the mold-on grabs easily. I have the 50-ft w/6-ft door to build and the grabs are not molded-on. The brakes wheels are beautiful and correct I think. I replaced the molded on Sill Steps and scratch built new ladders for the DD version. The representation of the side ribs, the unique MILW roof and dreadnaught ends are well done. With some love these can be built into very nice models. 
Having inspected all the tooling, I find that only the first two releases, the 40' "long rib" single and double door cars, had molded on grabs. George then switched to supplying wire grabs, which, of course, the modeler had to paint himself.

The Rib Side Cars line was certainly a labor of love for George Schmidt, he had excellent tooling built, unfortunately, I doubt he ever got his money back with it. It has some interesting quirks, almost like as bills were piling up he'd just throw up his hands and authorize some shortcut just to get the project done. Case in point; the detail work on the car sides is impressive, but the grab irons were totally devoid of any attachment detail. I added a representation of the Milwaukee's unique Z section attachment brackets when I did minor repairs to the single door car, and will do the same to the double door car before we release it. Likewise, there was no handbrake rod or bell crank, which I added to the parts group, and the brake wheel as tooled was impossible to mold, in fact, they had the gate welded shut, and were apparently supplying an after market part. I added a new Equipco brake wheel cavity, based on information supplied by the Milwaukee Road Historical society and our own Gene Green.

Hopefully I'll get time to work over the 40' double door car this summer, in time for release at Milwaukee Trainfest next November.

Dennis Storzek

Re: Photo: Freight Cars The Departure Yard At Boston Freight Terminal


I wanted to include Chris Barkan's stencil diagrams for hopper cars.

Bob Witt

FS- HO Freight Cars

Scott H. Haycock

I have a list of freight car models, Kit and RTR for sale. These models are from the era covered by this list, with a very few models a few years newer.

As I'm downsizing my ambitions due to age, I really need to sell these models. Any realistic offers will be considered.

Contact me at  OFF LIST at: shhaycockATcomcastDOTnet for a copy of this list.


Scott Haycock   

Re: Photo: Freight Cars The Departure Yard At Boston Freight Terminal


Tim and Group,

To make the stenciling more specific, the B&O hopper in the photo has the Billboard "B&O" with a small ampersand which places it in the mid-1950s introduced in 1956 lasting to 1957. The next iteration eliminated the lines above and below the reporting marks and the initials and numbers were 9" high. This one was in effect from 1957 to 1962 when the C&O took control.

Bob Witt

Re: Accurail Ribbed Sided Box Car

Curt Fortenberry

RPC Volume 13 is the one you want.

Curt Fortenberry

Re: Accurail Ribbed Sided Box Car

Bill Welch

The doors are accurate. The "Rib Side" kits seem mixed regarding the grabs. I have only built the 40-ft DD and removed the mold-on grabs easily. I have the 50-ft w/6-ft door to build and the grabs are not molded-on. The brakes wheels are beautiful and correct I think. I replaced the molded on Sill Steps and scratch built new ladders for the DD version. The representation of the side ribs, the unique MILW roof and dreadnaught ends are well done. With some love these can be built into very nice models. 

I suggest consulting the appropriate RP CYC that focused on the Rib Side designs as some of them had wood running boards while some were mixed with steel Longitudinal and wood Latitudinals.

Bill Welch

Re: Photo: Freight Cars The Departure Yard At Boston Freight Terminal

Peter Ness

Hi Tim,

I probably misread one of the earlier posts where I thought there was a comment that someone was not familiar with s.s. cars on the New Haven, and was trying to provide some background about this history of those cars.


Peter Ness


From: [] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2020 11:46 AM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Freight Cars The Departure Yard At Boston Freight Terminal



Why do you think 1948 is relevant? The color photo of south Boston was taken in the late
1950's (a previous source I have says the date is August 1960).

The Rock Island box car was built in 1952, and it is weathered and has a lube stencil patch.
The B&O billboard letters were introduced in the early 1950's (after 1951, for sure). The MEC
box car green paint is from the 1950's and the Cotton Belt double door box car was rebuilt in

By 1959 the New Haven rostered ZERO wood sheathed box cars, according to the ORER.

Tim O'Connor

On 2/25/2020 2:34 PM, Peter Ness wrote:

Those are all in service cars my friends. Those are not the RIP tracks in South Boston Freight Terminal. Look over by the brick smokestack and sand tower to see two switchers – the S-1 is working and smoking, the HH660 probably idling. Now, since Boston was a terminal, there is no telling how long the foreign road cars lingered before returning home.


There are three NH box cars in the photo;

McGinnis scheme (black with large “NH”) behind the Superior reefer

Script herald (BCR, very faded lettering) coupled to the right of the Superior reefer

The storage car that is on the ground to the right of the script herald car and to the left of the RI box car.

Notice there is a phone pole directly behind the script herald boxcar described above.


The storage car is one of the NHs old boxes, possibly 70200 series (I have a photo of NH 70218) which were rebuilt in 1935 with steel underframes from earlier NH 170000-170999-series 30-ton box cars.


The 40’ steel boxcars arrived beginning 1942 but there were still over 120 wood box cars in service in Sept 1948.  Beginning post-war many of the wood cars were converted to non-revenue service, which is the fate of the car in this photo. A white “NH” is visible above the “W-series” work car number.  Some cars were grounded and used for storage which appears to be the fate of this car. The yellow visible on the side is a patch of paint only so a black lettered stencil could be applied. This could have been applied while the car was still on trucks or not.  Could have said anything from “sand service only” to “property of mechanical dept.”


Peter Ness


From: [] On Behalf Of Schuyler Larrabee via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 1:46 PM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Freight Cars The Departure Yard At Boston Freight Terminal


Agreed it’s a patch, but I think it’s a painted patch, painting out something, like a “return to” notice.  It’s a bit too ragged to be a carpenter’s parch.




From: <> On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 1:42 PM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Freight Cars The Departure Yard At Boston Freight Terminal


It looks like fresh unpainted wood i.e. "patches" to me, Schuyler. I do not recognize
the cars at all. They don't look like anything that I know of from the New Haven. I'm
curious if anyone can figure out what they are. But I agree the photo scan is so poor
that nothing can be inferred about the lettering.

Tim O'Connor

On 2/25/2020 12:32 PM, Schuyler Larrabee via Groups.Io wrote:

I don’t think those are “repairs.”  And at that distance and the age of the cars, dimensions and weight information may be there, faded, but not visible.




From: <> On Behalf Of mel perry
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 11:48 AM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Freight Cars The Departure Yard At Boston Freight Terminal


couple of ss boxcars, apparently in inhouse service as all dims and weight

remarks all removed, and appears that

both had repairs to the same spot.on, just to the left of the door,

can't remember that being a weak

structural spot in the ss design?


On Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 8:17 AM Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io <> wrote:

Photo: Freight Cars The Departure Yard At Boston Freight Terminal

A Donald Haskel photo taken in August 1960:

A good variety of cars and roads.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Accurail Ribbed Sided Box Car

Ken Adams

At long last the two Accurail Ribbed Sided Milwaukee box cars I have had on order for what seemed like eons arrived at my Local Hobby Shop today and I eagerly procured them and rushed home to unbox and see what I had acquired.  These are "favorite" cars of mine although I know next to nothing about the prototype. At one time I think I once had an MDC version of this car from the 1970's or 80's but it is not in my current collection. According to what little I know Accurail acquired the Rib Side Cars original maker of this version. 

I started to de-sprue but decided I needed more expert opinion before I went much further.  This is the contents (not including the instruction sheet) of the Accurail box. 

I have cleaned up the running board/roof walk casting a bit removing flash and trimmed the large molding gate from the underside of the main car casting. The brake wheel appears to be a representation of an Equipco brake wheel.  Is this correct? The door is rather unusual. How long did the cars retain these doors. The car has a representation of a metal running board with a rectangular grid pattern. The grabs are molded in as are all the grabs on the side of the body.  The ends have a 5+5 rib pattern and are rounded enough to indicate a W post end frame. 

Note that the car side is lettered with New 7-40. That will have to be changed to a repack date as I model 1950-54. I assume this is the as-built lettering.  The other car kit I bought is lettered for the Route of the Hiawathas and has a New 3-40 date. The color is a maroonish boxcar red which was the Milwaukee Roads standard box car color. 

All in all it appears to be a fairly nice kit. Accurail has certainly reworked the molding somewhat and it it unfortunate they were unable to include separate grab irons. But the kit cost under $20 (and i is marked made in the USA) so there is not much room for complaint.

Comments, criticisms and references to the prototype are the reason I am posting before I start constructing and enhancing the kit (cast on grab irons must go.)


Re: NP Mystery Car


The car is surely originally from the NP transfer car series:  101000-101049 and 101050-101084, made famous in our circles by Red Ball, as I recall.  Nominally 60' long, with two separate 5'-6" doors on each side.  I believe "transfer" would likely equate to LCL service, and not wood chip or hog fuel.

The car number in the picture is 2X2 (as in 232, 242, 252, etc.)(my vote is 262).  Those numbers were assigned to company service cars.  In particular, numbers from 1 to 295 appear to have been assigned to scrap service at the time, and up until NP was merged.  The cars in scrap service were certainly varied:  109 was a former tank car, and used "for hauling exhausted carbide from welding plant at Brainerd."  292 and 293 were  "composite" gons formerly used as "oxygen" cars, and still retain the 8 side doors from that service.  Their particular usage as scrap cars is not noted.  294 was converted from NP 14029, and called a "yard box", either before or after conversion (it's not clear).  295 was formerly cinder car 205754.

All of the above information is available at the NPRHA site, except that I got the original car numbers from ORER.

As can be seen from the photo modifications to 2X2 include 8-10 roof hatches, with covers, and 12 small side doors, with the doors sliding vertically.  The small side doors are reminiscent of the doors on the oxygen cars.  That would not explain the roof hatches, however.  Dual or multiple usage might.

I believe 2X2 was a company service scrap car.  I have no idea what the scrap was.  I am sure it was frequently loaded through the roof, as why else have the hatches?  And the car and the load were likely not much damaged by the roof loading.  The small side doors could also have been used for loading.  Note, by the way, that, in the photo, some of the roof hatches are open; and 4 out of 6 small side doors are open.


Edward Sutorik

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