1. main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
  2. Messages
   Date   
Milwaukee Road Rib Side Boxcar 20426

Lester Breuer
 

I have completed the build of Milwaukee rib side boxcar 20426.  If you are interested in the build of this car including adding many details not in the kit, photos and writeup of the build process including paint and weathering are now available on my blog I have to share photos and writeup of modeling projects on my Minneapolis & Northland Railroad Company.   If you would like to take a look please do at the following link:

http://mnrailroadcab100.blogspot.com/

Lester Breuer
Re: Grab Irons Extensions

leakinmywaders
 

Modelers should be advised, not all the NP 40 ft combination door boxcars with this car side arrangement had the PS-1 ends that appear in Tim's photos of NP 3309.  NP 3000-3399 were Pullman-Standard built in 1959-60 with the PS-1 ends.  Among numerous cars with virtually identical sides built by NP Brainerd shops in 1958 through 1960 in range 8000-9249 or so, most had what I believe are commonly referred to as R+3/4 improved dreadnaught ends. But not all. I don't have it in hand just now, but I recall there was a thread at the NPModelers group several years ago where some of us tried to sort out what the approximate break point in the number series when Brainerd made the end change.

Those offset grabs are yet another small annoyance for us NP people trying to do more than one or two of these cars!  ;-) 

Chris Frissell
Polson, MT. 
Re: NP Mystery Car

Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

   It's not the Boring unit trains that trouble me as much as it is the damned graffiti all over everything.
People grie to me all the time about the younger generation not having any respect for anything anymore.
Of course they don't, the younger generation isn't smart enough to even have any respect for itself.

Just the way it is, Don Valentine
Re: Photo: Freight Cars The Departure Yard At Boston Freight Terminal

Randy Hammill
 

Fantastic info. Thanks. 


To clarify, they were all out of interchange service by that date. More than 100 (maybe 200+, I haven’t really compiled the info as it’s past me era of interest) were still in non-revenue service, although it appears the bulk of those were sold/scrapped c1956.

 Randy
--
—
Randy Hammill
Prototype Junction
http://prototypejunction.com

Modeling the New Haven Railroad 1946-1954
http://newbritainstation.com
Re: Grab Irons Extensions

Ralph W. Brown
 

Hi Tim,

Wow! Just plain "clear" doesn't begin to describe those photos, and with both sides, both ends and the roof as well.

The cars are well beyond my era, but thanks anyway for sharing those gems.

Pax,


Ralph Brown
Portland, Maine
PRRT&HS No. 3966
NMRA No. L2532

rbrown51[at]maine[dot]rr[dot]com

-----Original Message-----
From: Tim O'Connor
Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2020 5:02 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Grab Irons Extensions


Here are a couple of clear views of these unusual NP grabiron mounts.

I also include a shot of a commonly seen end grab with two different
brackets.



On 2/27/2020 2:01 PM, Todd Sullivan via Groups.Io wrote:
Because the left-opening door would contact (smush) the grabs if they
were mounted completely on the car side.

Todd Sullivan

--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*
Re: Grab Irons Extensions

hubert mask
 

Now that is the kind of photos I need to complete Decals.

Hubert Mask
MAsk Island Decals

On Feb 27, 2020, at 5:02 PM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


Here are a couple of clear views of these unusual NP grabiron mounts.

I also include a shot of a commonly seen end grab with two different brackets.



On 2/27/2020 2:01 PM, Todd Sullivan via Groups.Io wrote:
Because the left-opening door would contact (smush) the grabs if they were mounted completely on the car side.

Todd Sullivan

--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*



<np_3309 40ft_CD_box PS1-1960 lside-A-end-view builder 1-1960.jpg>
<np_3309 40ft_CD_box PS1-1960 rside-A-end-overhead-view builder 1-1960.jpg>
<p&wv_1310 40ft_SD_box PS1-1948 B-end-view builder.jpg>
Re: NP Mystery Car

Doug Paasch
 

I still bemoan the loss of the “good old days” when the sky was blue (even on overcast days) from the tee-pee sawdust burners, and the air burned your nose with its acrid smell.  I also miss the “aroma of Tacoma” and the “smell of it in Everett” from the pulp mills and the ASARCO smelter.  Frankly, I found great beauty in the industrial sprawl and still miss the days when America actually made things instead of importing everything from China.  As for steam era freight car content, I also miss the variety of railroad cars back then versus the boring unit trains of today.  Alas, those days are gone.

 

  Doug Paasch

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Andy Carlson
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2020 11:55 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] NP Mystery Car

 

I am sure that Gregg Martin would have some useful thoughts about hog fuel. Chipping whole logs for paper mills came about strongly in the 1950s. Prior to that time, hog fuel was mostly from sawmill leftovers which could be be diverted from the slash burners (The teepee Hut fire places) leaving mostly saw dust for on site burning, as it seems buyers for waste wood fuel use did not place a high value for saw dust.

 

Chipping became a big thing for the burgening North West paper mills with their huge demand for wood fiber which the mills found profits from chipping logs into fairly consistent sized chips. The demand for chips reached the point where whole logs were now chipped, no longer was mill waste with the problems of irregular size as valued.

 

Tim's photos show the type of non-chip loads on early hog fuel cars. Lots of slash which would have  otherwise been sent into the teepee burners. Chip cars and hog fuel cars were serving different markets.

 

-Andy Carlson

Ojai CA

 

On Wednesday, February 26, 2020, 10:08:23 AM PST, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

 

 


A couple of photos of hog fuel. There could be large pieces of wood - like firewood logs -
but those were usually loaded into specialized cars or gondolas. I've included a shot of this too.



On 2/26/2020 11:18 AM, Tony Thompson wrote:

Andy Carlson wrote:



Going back to the era of this car I would presume the car to be a Hog Fuel car, hog fuel being the mill slabs and other mill detritus. Chips were to come around later. 

 

     True about the nomenclature, but not about the product. The great majority of hog fuel that you can see in photos was definitely chips.

 

Tony Thompson

 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: SP&S Large Reporting Marks—Date of Introduction

Bill Welch
 

Thank you everyone, scheme too late for me.

Bill Welch
Re: SP&S Large Reporting Marks—Date of Introduction

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
 

Bill, 

According to Ed Austin's article "Boxcars of the Spokane, Portland & Seattle Railway" in the December 1997 MM, the billboard lettering was introduced shortly AFTER the July 1957 delivery of 50' DD boxcars 14000-14499. Three different versions of the large lettering were to be applied to the 11000, 12000 and 13000 series 40' steel boxcars. When repainting began is not specifically stated in the article, but during the last months of 1957 is ballpark. Apparently a lot of cars never received the billboard lettering, and the three styles were mixed between the groups somewhat at random. So much for good intentions. Go with dated photos!

Yours Aye,

Garth Groff  🦆


On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 8:07 PM Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

Wondering if anyone here would know when the SP&S introduced their scheme with the very large SP&S reporting marks. Thank you.

Bill Welch

Re: SP&S Large Reporting Marks—Date of Introduction

Andy Carlson
 

1960, pretty much way to late for many.
-Andy

On Thursday, February 27, 2020, 5:06:51 PM PST, Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:


Wondering if anyone here would know when the SP&S introduced their scheme with the very large SP&S reporting marks. Thank you.

Bill Welch

PS-1 Chronology 2017 St Louis

Allan Smith
 

I deleted the E-mail with a photo from the above showing the brake wheel end of a ST-SL PS-1 boxcar. That photo had a comment about a PS-1 chronology clinic at the St Louis 2017 RPM meet. Question is that clinic available to download??? and if so where and who gave the clinic.

Al Smith
Sonora CA
SP&S Large Reporting Marks—Date of Introduction

Bill Welch
 
Edited

Wondering if anyone here would know when the SP&S introduced their scheme with the very large SP&S reporting marks. Thank you.

Bill Welch
Re: Yankee Clipper Kit List

Bill Welch
 
Edited

Thank you Tim. I was surprised to see he had done a couple of gondolas. The boxcars on the list is like seeing an old friend after several years. I built the CP mini-box, the B&M and BAR Pratt truss cars and the 1932 ARA BAR, Norfolk Southern, CGW and an extra CGW kit and Walther's decals to do the NdeM version. Bill Dulmaine did an excellent job with his instruction, prototype history and decals. Also built the PM and C&O 1930 series kits and still have the NKP 1932 kit to build.

For NC&StL, Clinchfield, CofG 1932 cars I built the Sunshine versions. I still a Sunshine 1932 CP kit to build.

Bill Welch
Re: Grab Irons Extensions

Tim O'Connor
 

Here are a couple of clear views of these unusual NP grabiron mounts.

I also include a shot of a commonly seen end grab with two different brackets.

On 2/27/2020 2:01 PM, Todd Sullivan via Groups.Io wrote:
Because the left-opening door would contact (smush) the grabs if they were mounted completely on the car side.

Todd Sullivan
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*
Re: CMO 20040 Express Box

Tim O'Connor
 


I got confused because I didn't know Athearn had TWO of these trucks!!

THIS (attached) is the express truck with the correct wheelbase - but it is a
more modern truck, without the pedestal ends and with roller bearings rather than
plain bearing journal boxes.

I have this Athearn truck because the SP applied them to BE-50-24 express cars,
albeit with shock absorbers and plain bearings. Modifications must be made. :-\

Tim


On 2/27/2020 2:13 PM, Dennis Storzek wrote:
On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 10:32 AM, BRIAN PAUL EHNI wrote:
WB looks too long as well. 
Yeah, the boxcar underframe isn't modified, so still has the 5'-6" kingpin to striker dimension. When you look at the car, the wheel has more or less the same relationship to the car end as the old PRR X29s with their 5'-0" kingpin to striker, which would indicate the passenger truck wheelbase can't be longer than 6'-6". The Tichy trucks claim 6'-0", which may be a bit short. I wonder if these cars had 36" wheels?

In the photo the trucks appear to have separate bolt on pedestals, so the Tichy truck is correct for that feature, but even in the enhanced photo I can't really see the shape of the top of the frame.

Dennis Storzek

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts
Re: Accurail Ribbed Sided Box Car

Eric Hansmann
 

Here’s the Tahoe website for reference.

http://resincarworks.com/tahoe.htm

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Andy Carlson
Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2020 1:50 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Accurail Ribbed Sided Box Car

 

For those who may haved missed it, Brian Leppert's Tahoe Model Works has a Barber S2 ride control 50-ton truck which is as close to perfect for the Milwaukee rib sided class of boxcars that will ever exist. He even tooled the truck for the uncommon for the period, but correct for the MILW, the truck spring planks. Substituting Tahoe's trucks for the kit's trucks would be my 1st improvement.

-Andy Carlson

Ojai CA

 

 

 
Accurail Ribbed Sided Box Car

Andy Carlson
 

For those who may haved missed it, Brian Leppert's Tahoe Model Works has a Barber S2 ride control 50-ton truck which is as close to perfect for the Milwaukee rib sided class of boxcars that will ever exist. He even tooled the truck for the uncommon for the period, but correct for the MILW, the truck spring planks. Substituting Tahoe's trucks for the kit's trucks would be my 1st improvement.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA



_._,_._,_
Re: Accurail Ribbed Sided Box Car

Clark Propst
 

Glad to hear the rumors of the tooling's demise was exaggerated  ;   ))
CW Propst
Re: N&W Boxcar

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
 

Tim,

Ah!, Wabash. Thank you very much. So it is a true AC&F. 

Yours Aye,

Garth Groff  🦆


On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 12:45 PM Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

WABASH series 90000 to 90549 were welded box cars with 8 foot doors built by ACF in 1960.
The N&W lettered cars simply had a "3" prefix applied to the car number. And some cars were
never renumbered, evidently.

Tim O'Connor


On 2/27/2020 4:56 AM, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford wrote:
Friends,

The attached photos are of an N&W MoW boxcar I photographed in the 1990s at Elkton, Virginia. As the detail photo shows, this car was "built" in 1960, so it fits within our period of interest. I have no data on these cars (my ORER is October 1958), and would appreciate any information the group can supply. 

The car appears to have a 7' door, certainly welded sides, and what appears to be a "banana-taper" late improved Dreadnaught end. It does not appear in Ed Hawkins' article on similar AC&F cars in the July 1999 RMJ. It am wondering if it was home-built or even a major rebuild, as the N&W had just done to their round roof boxcars.

I was initially attracted to the car by the Henesy "Side-well" device (which is not within our period), as at the time I was writing an article on these accessories. Mr. Henesy and I had a telephone conversation about his invention. He mentioned that the N&W applied these to some of their MoW boxcars because staff cuts meant that some MoW staging locations only had a single employee, so if the door stuck he could have hard a hard time opening the door. This Slide-well is actually broken. The wheel and gear box should be attached to the right edge of the door. Mr. Henesy said that roughg use (slamming the unit against its right-side stop) often resulted in stripped gears, which may be the case here. Later units had clutch of some sort in the gearbox that prevented this damage. As an aside, I sold the article to MR, but they never published same.
Yours Aye,

Mungo Napier, Laird of Mallard Lodge  🦆

Attachments:



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Attachments:
Re: CMO 20040 Express Box

Dennis Storzek
 

On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 10:32 AM, BRIAN PAUL EHNI wrote:
WB looks too long as well. 
Yeah, the boxcar underframe isn't modified, so still has the 5'-6" kingpin to striker dimension. When you look at the car, the wheel has more or less the same relationship to the car end as the old PRR X29s with their 5'-0" kingpin to striker, which would indicate the passenger truck wheelbase can't be longer than 6'-6". The Tichy trucks claim 6'-0", which may be a bit short. I wonder if these cars had 36" wheels?

In the photo the trucks appear to have separate bolt on pedestals, so the Tichy truck is correct for that feature, but even in the enhanced photo I can't really see the shape of the top of the frame.

Dennis Storzek
23281 - 23300 of 193502