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Re: Wright Track Kit Instructions Needed
Bill Welch
Technically the TC steel car is a 1937 AAR design albeit with a Pullman end and flat riveted roof a'la Pennsy style.
Bill Welch
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Re: Wright Track Kit Instructions Needed
Allen, I think I have that one but I have to find it. Probably tomorrow Fenton
On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 2:31 PM Allen Cain <Allencaintn@...> wrote:
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Wright Track Kit Instructions Needed
Allen Cain
Could someone send a scan of the instructions for this Wright Trak kit? Tennessee Central PS-O Circa 1958 Box Car Wright Trak HO TC-02 Thanks, Allen Cain
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Re: D&RGW 65500 SS 1.5 door car
Bill Welch
As I think about this kit-bash, I think the Radial roof from an Atlas C&O 1932 car kit might be appropriate.
Bill Welch
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Re: Adjusting the gondola fleet
Fran Giacoma
On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 11:47 AM, Brian Carlson wrote:
"I was responding to the OP’s comment that he “only room for 2 additional gondolas in the fleet due to a limited amount and length of the staging tracks.”
Those 2 gons are going to stand out if used every session."
Here are the facts: 1) a scrap dealer has a one car spot for a gondola. It does not get switched every session 2) there are two other industries that either get a gondola or a flatcar. One interchange gets a gondola every third session or so 3) my gondola fleet will consist of 4 different cars. My total car fleet is 145 cars. I have 25 industries (most with multiple spots) and three different railroad interchanges I have two 3-person crews that each operate twice a year (spring and fall) on the layout. So much else changes between visits that they never notice the same car going to the same industry as before, if it happens (extremely rare). I am deeply into prototype ops (layout is TTTO) so the crews are too busy operating their trains by looking for "fixed signals", their paperwork (clearance forms, train orders, switch lists, timetable, etc), and enjoying the scenery that in my many years of operating, I never heard that comment from any of them. I operate the layout weekly myself and never get bored of my cars; the amount is just right for my space and operating scheme. I change them out as a result of research about what I am modeling. Fran Giacoma
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D&RGW 65500 SS 1.5 door car
Bill Welch
This is a photocopy and I am not sure who gave it to me one year at Lisle. Great kit-bash candidate using the little styrene half door kit from Dan Valentine and Accurail carbody. It will need a radial roof. IIRC these were gone by my October 1955 modeling date.
Bill Welch
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Need help finding an IM FGEX reefer
If anybody has an Intermountain FGEX reefer that they would sell at a reasonable price I'd like to purchase one. Undec but any road name is great
Please contact me off line at srrfan1401@... Thanks
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Re: Adjusting the gondola fleet
Clark Propst
On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 08:47 AM, Brian Carlson wrote:
I have selves behind my staging yard. After a run a train is completely replaced with cars from the shelves. I stage three trains with one or two gons and/or hoppers. There are a half dozen or so customers on the layout, so the one may only receive a car every third section or longer? Big take away, you can't, or should, keep all your cars on the layout. But, it's a good way to keep your fleet under control ; )) CW Propst
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Re: Photo: Barrels in A Boxcar
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
If you are interested in these early HCCX hoppers, Keith
Retterer has a builder's photo of HCCX 1001 in his collection, negative
971. It was built by Std Steel Car in 1928 at Butler works. IRM
Pullman library has a scan of the general arrangement drawing for this car,
SS-53276 along with multiple detail drawings related to that build. 20
more cars were added, using drawing SS-53627 (also scanned and available at IRM)
in late 1928. 29 additional cars were added so that there were 50 in total
by 1931.
Steve Hile
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Garth Groff and Sally Sanford Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2020 12:06 PM To: main@realstmfc.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Barrels in A Boxcar Jerry and friends,
The unusual Pullman-built Hercules cars are shown in the CAR BUILDERS
CYCLOPEDIA during the late 1930s in Pullman's ads. I have a photocopy and it is
marked as page 329. Since the Hercules car shares the page with AT&SF boxcar
136299 which has a 5-36 built date, we can surmise this was a 1937 or later
edition. The car in question is HCCX 1001, and is marked boldly "HERCULES
PORTLAND CEMENT IN BULK, presumably black lettering on a gray car. The car has
slab sides with no outside bracing. The car body stops at about the truck
bolsters, much like a tank car, and the ladders and end braces slope diagonally
out toward the end sills in an almost European fashion. The trucks are Andrews.
I can't read the build date, but it was probably 1929. A most interesting car,
but already obsolete by the time the ad was published.
In 1932, the C&O began converting small lots of their coal hoppers to
covered hoppers for cement service. The D&H showed a similar converted
car in RAILWAY MECHANICAL ENGINEERING in 1933. And let's not forget that the
D&H also converted boxcars to permanent cement service with hatches and
floor gates, as did some other roads. In 1934 the Erie purchased their series
20000-20049 cars with a 1321 cu ft capacity from Greenville, which except
for its rather small size was similar in appearance to later 70-ton cars. PRR
added their giant H30 class in 1935. By 1937 several major builders were
churning out the 70-ton 1958 cu ft cars we know and love, and there are several
examples in the Gregg CBC reprint for 1940.
Was the idea
new? No. As early as 1898 there were wooden cars being built with the classic
covered hopper features of roof hatches and floor gates. MR had a plan for one
of these in the 1960s, and claimed they were offered in both standard and narrow
gauges. (I built one in HOn3 from that plan, I think my second scratch-built
car, but of course we don't pay any attention to narrow gauge, do
we.)
I suspect
that the massive need for cement during the post-war boom, with ready-mix plants
in every town, made the covered hopper a much more attractive way to deliver
cement. Barrels probably were gone by the early 1950s in favor of bulk or sacks.
Sacked cement was easier to handle for small jobs, no doubt cheaper to package,
and continues to be popular today.
Yours Aye, Garth Groff 🦆 On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 11:26 AM Jerry Dziedzic
<jerdz@...>
wrote:
A few thoughts to add to Mal's. Cement packaging long relied on barrels and cloth bags. I credit Hercules Cement with the first rail shipments in covered hoppers, in 1929. Tony Thompson has a photo of bulk cement in a boxcar during the construction of Shasta Dam in the 1940's; imagine unloading that one! It's my guess that bulk eliminated barrels, but I don't know when. I don't know when paper sacks replaced cloth, either; about the same time flour made the change? I have LCL waybills from the early 1940's returning bundles of cloth bags to cement mills.
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Re: New '37 AAR box cars with Deco and NSC-2 ends
rdgbuff56
Does anyone know if the IMRC model has Viking roof and 3 panel doors? Maybe someone could post a few photos. Francis A. Pehowic
On Tuesday, March 17, 2020, 10:18:00 AM EDT, Clark Propst <cepropst@q.com> wrote: I built a C&O model years ago using a Des Plaines Viking roof kit. I used Keith Reterrer (sp) ends and doors. Also used his 3 panel doors on M&StL auto cars. Talked to Kieth about his castings at CCB. Sounded like he can still produce them. I think his are better looking than the IM model myself. CW Propst
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Re: Photo: Barrels in A Boxcar
Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
Jerry and friends, The unusual Pullman-built Hercules cars are shown in the CAR BUILDERS CYCLOPEDIA during the late 1930s in Pullman's ads. I have a photocopy and it is marked as page 329. Since the Hercules car shares the page with AT&SF boxcar 136299 which has a 5-36 built date, we can surmise this was a 1937 or later edition. The car in question is HCCX 1001, and is marked boldly "HERCULES PORTLAND CEMENT IN BULK, presumably black lettering on a gray car. The car has slab sides with no outside bracing. The car body stops at about the truck bolsters, much like a tank car, and the ladders and end braces slope diagonally out toward the end sills in an almost European fashion. The trucks are Andrews. I can't read the build date, but it was probably 1929. A most interesting car, but already obsolete by the time the ad was published. In 1932, the C&O began converting small lots of their coal hoppers to covered hoppers for cement service. The D&H showed a similar converted car in RAILWAY MECHANICAL ENGINEERING in 1933. And let's not forget that the D&H also converted boxcars to permanent cement service with hatches and floor gates, as did some other roads. In 1934 the Erie purchased their series 20000-20049 cars with a 1321 cu ft capacity from Greenville, which except for its rather small size was similar in appearance to later 70-ton cars. PRR added their giant H30 class in 1935. By 1937 several major builders were churning out the 70-ton 1958 cu ft cars we know and love, and there are several examples in the Gregg CBC reprint for 1940. Was the idea new? No. As early as 1898 there were wooden cars being built with the classic covered hopper features of roof hatches and floor gates. MR had a plan for one of these in the 1960s, and claimed they were offered in both standard and narrow gauges. (I built one in HOn3 from that plan, I think my second scratch-built car, but of course we don't pay any attention to narrow gauge, do we.) I suspect that the massive need for cement during the post-war boom, with ready-mix plants in every town, made the covered hopper a much more attractive way to deliver cement. Barrels probably were gone by the early 1950s in favor of bulk or sacks. Sacked cement was easier to handle for small jobs, no doubt cheaper to package, and continues to be popular today. Yours Aye, Garth Groff 🦆
On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 11:26 AM Jerry Dziedzic <jerdz@...> wrote: A few thoughts to add to Mal's. Cement packaging long relied on barrels and cloth bags. I credit Hercules Cement with the first rail shipments in covered hoppers, in 1929. Tony Thompson has a photo of bulk cement in a boxcar during the construction of Shasta Dam in the 1940's; imagine unloading that one! It's my guess that bulk eliminated barrels, but I don't know when. I don't know when paper sacks replaced cloth, either; about the same time flour made the change? I have LCL waybills from the early 1940's returning bundles of cloth bags to cement mills.
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Re: Photo: Barrels in A Boxcar
The fellow on the right appears to me to have goggles up on his forehead. Posing for his picture, perhaps? N95 being in the future, I guess a wet cloth on his face might be some protection. Chuck Peck
On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 12:45 PM Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote: Bulk cement...lots of labor at the receiving end.
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Re: Adjusting the gondola fleet
Chuck Cover
Group,
There are a few more car card/waybill systems out there that give operators a lot more options than the most common 4 position card in envelope that most folks use. I use a computerized waybill system that prints out up to 14 destinations for each car card thus adding many more destinations before the operators see the car headed back to the same old industry. For more information see the OPSIG web site in “The Dispatcher's Office”, Official Journal of the Operations Special Interest Group. The system that I mentioned was covered in the July 2017 issue.
Chuck Cover Santa Fe, NM
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Re: Photo: Barrels in A Boxcar
Bill J.
That's how cement was delivered to the dam projects on the Hetch Hetchy RR (connection with the Sierra RR).
Bill Jolitz
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Re: Photo: Freight Cars At Armourdale, Kansas City, Kansas
Schuyler Larrabee
What a great photo! And not just because it has an ERIE box car in it, “wrong way door” and all. 😊 It also has a couple of obligatory NP cars.
The older I get the older my freight car interest gets.
Schuyler
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io
Photo: Freight Cars At Armourdale, Kansas City, Kansas A 1915 photo from the Kansas City Public Library: https://pendergastkc.org/collection/9130/10008062/morris-co-and-swift-co-plants-armourdale/47662 Caption: "Photograph of the Morris & Company (left) and the Swift & Company (right background) packing plants in Armourdale, Kansas City, Kansas. This vantage point faces south from the Kansas side of the Central Avenue bridge over the Kansas River. Morris & Company was once located where Interstate 670 runs just west of the Kansas River." Scroll on the photo to enlarge it. Bob Chaparro Hemet, CA
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Re: Photo: Barrels in A Boxcar
Bulk cement...lots of labor at the receiving end.
Bob Chaparro Hemet, CA
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Photo: Freight Cars At Armourdale, Kansas City, Kansas
Photo: Freight Cars At Armourdale, Kansas City, Kansas A 1915 photo from the Kansas City Public Library: https://pendergastkc.org/collection/9130/10008062/morris-co-and-swift-co-plants-armourdale/47662 Caption: "Photograph of the Morris & Company (left) and the Swift & Company (right background) packing plants in Armourdale, Kansas City, Kansas. This vantage point faces south from the Kansas side of the Central Avenue bridge over the Kansas River. Morris & Company was once located where Interstate 670 runs just west of the Kansas River." Scroll on the photo to enlarge it. Bob Chaparro Hemet, CA
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Re: Adjusting the gondola fleet
I realize all that. I was responding to the OP’s comment that he “only room for 2 additional gondolas in the fleet due to a limited amount and length of the staging tracks.” Those 2 gons are going to stand out if used every session. Brian J. Carlson
On Mar 19, 2020, at 11:22 AM, Jim Betz <jimbetz@...> wrote:
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Re: Photo: Barrels in A Boxcar
Jerry Dziedzic
A few thoughts to add to Mal's. Cement packaging long relied on barrels and cloth bags. I credit Hercules Cement with the first rail shipments in covered hoppers, in 1929. Tony Thompson has a photo of bulk cement in a boxcar during the construction of Shasta Dam in the 1940's; imagine unloading that one! It's my guess that bulk eliminated barrels, but I don't know when. I don't know when paper sacks replaced cloth, either; about the same time flour made the change? I have LCL waybills from the early 1940's returning bundles of cloth bags to cement mills.
Weight is the advantage a sack has over a barrel. One sack contains a cubic foot of cement weighing 94 lbs, more easily carried to a small job site. A barrel's volume was 4 cu. ft. so a barrel weighed 376 lbs. Boxcar loads of sacks from Lehigh Valley cement producers were common in the 60's and early 70's Much cement still moves in sacks, though now by truck. Pennsylvania's Public Utilities Commission permitted highway bulk transport in 1958, as I remember. Wish I were near my files to confirm this date. Jerry Dziedzic
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Re: Adjusting the gondola fleet
Brian,
Although what you say is correct - there are some things you can do to 'mix it up' that lessen how many off layout cars you need/need to swap in and out ... Don't let your crews always take the same jobs. Use 4 part way bills. Swap way bills between cars of the same type between sessions or even between trips out of staging (fiddle the way bills in staging). Add in the specific 'demand for and response to' empties - most let the waybills act as the empty supply ... if you have a yard clerk job you can model the actual empty supply part of the equation. You can even add in that the clerk has to pay attention to the car forwarding rules and the captive service cars. Add in "clean out track" operations (yeah, I know, this is difficult to do with existing trackage). Or maybe your boxes/drawers of 'extra' cars can model that - first the car goes to staging, then it gets its waybill pulled, then it goes to the cleanout drawer, then to the available drawer, then back to staging, then a waybill assigned and actually in a train for the next op? Perhaps the cars in staging get "clean out waybills"? Modernize an industry (swap in a different structure?) and change its demand from 40' cars to 50 footers. Recruit from a larger crew base - so that not everyone is always the same. One layout I know puts out a 'call for operators' once a month - his crew size is 18! - he has about 25-30 guys on his call list. First 18 responders get jobs, the rest wait till next month. He often fills his crew in under 48 hours and has filled it as little as 4 hours. Yes, his crew calls go out in emails and the responses are emails. He puts out his call "about 10 days before the Op". - Jim. O
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