Date   

Re: Model brake component size comparison to prototype

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Ralph, I believe that lost “was” is, except for unique individual items made by artists casing in silver or gold, no longer used for mass production of parts like model railroad brake gear.  That has become a “lost plastic” process, where many plastic parts are glued together in a “tree< which is then inserted into a can of wet plaster.  When dry the plaster cylinder is heated to get the plastic to run out, and then brass is poured into the middle of a spin casting machine, which forces by centrifugal force, the metal into all the voids in the plaster cylinder.  After cooling (and shrinking) the plaster is broken away and the parts harvested.

 

I presume that the plastic used has a lower melting temperature than that used for injected molded parts from metal dies.

 

I have received lost plastic parts that still have plaster on them.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ralph W. Brown
Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2020 1:34 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Model brake component size comparison to prototype

 

Hi Tim,

 

My understanding is that the sacrificial material used to make the molds for casting is, as the name of the process implies, wax, which melts and is absorbed by the mold when it is first heated leaving the void later filled with molten brass or other casting metal.  I doubt plastic detail parts made by Cal-Scale or others would or could preform the same function, although I suppose they could be used as “masters” for casting the sacrificial wax patterns, copyright issues notwithstanding.

 

I suspect there are others here who are more familiar with the process and could provide a more detailed description of the process.

 

Pax,

 

 

Ralph Brown
Portland, Maine
PRRT&HS No. 3966
NMRA No. L2532

rbrown51[at]maine[dot]rr[dot]com

 

From: Tim O'Connor

Sent: Saturday, April 4, 2020 9:15 AM

Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Model brake component size comparison to prototype

 


As I recall, all Cal-Scale detail components were OVERSIZE because they were used
for lost wax casting! In that process the plastic parts are for the molds and are
destroyed in the casting process, and the shrinkage produces parts that are closer
to scale.

Or am I wrong? :-)

Tim O'Connor

========================================

On 4/4/2020 9:00 AM, Lester Breuer wrote:

A comparison of several manufacturers’ model brake component measurements to Westinghouse prototype brake component measurements prepared by George Toman was sent to me for my use.  I asked George to share his measurements comparison on my blog.  If you are interested in the  comparison measurements, they are now available on my blog I have to share photos and writeup of projects on my Minneapolis & Northland Railroad Company. If would like to take a look please do at the following link:

 

http://mnrailroadcab100.blogspot.com/

 

Lester Breuer

 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: New Run: Rapido HO Scale General American Meat Reefer

Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

Say Tim, What in the world do the MOP do to that EMD switcher that moved the exhaust stacks off to the
left side and radically changed the roof vents ahead f them as well? Talk abut the Rock Island's Christine,
this is quite a rebuild!

Cordially, Don Valentine


Re: Model brake component size comparison to prototype

Ralph W. Brown
 

Hi Tim,
 
My understanding is that the sacrificial material used to make the molds for casting is, as the name of the process implies, wax, which melts and is absorbed by the mold when it is first heated leaving the void later filled with molten brass or other casting metal.  I doubt plastic detail parts made by Cal-Scale or others would or could preform the same function, although I suppose they could be used as “masters” for casting the sacrificial wax patterns, copyright issues notwithstanding.
 
I suspect there are others here who are more familiar with the process and could provide a more detailed description of the process.
 
Pax,
 
 
Ralph Brown
Portland, Maine
PRRT&HS No. 3966
NMRA No. L2532

rbrown51[at]maine[dot]rr[dot]com
 

From: Tim O'Connor
Sent: Saturday, April 4, 2020 9:15 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Model brake component size comparison to prototype
 

As I recall, all Cal-Scale detail components were OVERSIZE because they were used
for lost wax casting! In that process the plastic parts are for the molds and are
destroyed in the casting process, and the shrinkage produces parts that are closer
to scale.

Or am I wrong? :-)

Tim O'Connor

========================================

On 4/4/2020 9:00 AM, Lester Breuer wrote:

A comparison of several manufacturers’ model brake component measurements to Westinghouse prototype brake component measurements prepared by George Toman was sent to me for my use.  I asked George to share his measurements comparison on my blog.  If you are interested in the  comparison measurements, they are now available on my blog I have to share photos and writeup of projects on my Minneapolis & Northland Railroad Company. If would like to take a look please do at the following link:

 

http://mnrailroadcab100.blogspot.com/

 

Lester Breuer



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Model brake component size comparison to prototype

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Tim, I believe you’re correct about this process.  I’ll have to look at the information on Lester’s blog and measure a few things.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2020 9:15 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Model brake component size comparison to prototype

 


As I recall, all Cal-Scale detail components were OVERSIZE because they were used
for lost wax casting! In that process the plastic parts are for the molds and are
destroyed in the casting process, and the shrinkage produces parts that are closer
to scale.

Or am I wrong? :-)

Tim O'Connor

========================================

On 4/4/2020 9:00 AM, Lester Breuer wrote:

A comparison of several manufacturers’ model brake component measurements to Westinghouse prototype brake component measurements prepared by George Toman was sent to me for my use.  I asked George to share his measurements comparison on my blog.  If you are interested in the  comparison measurements, they are now available on my blog I have to share photos and writeup of projects on my Minneapolis & Northland Railroad Company. If would like to take a look please do at the following link:

 

http://mnrailroadcab100.blogspot.com/

 

Lester Breuer

 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Model brake component size comparison to prototype

Jim Hayes
 

Lester, I read your review of brake equipment sizes and the following one on the SF boxcar and was impressed by both. I should read your blog more often.

JimH


Re: New Run: Rapido HO Scale General American Meat Reefer

Eric Hansmann
 

FYI, I saw three or four of the original run at Chuck’s Depot in Marion, IL, last fall on the return trip from RPM Chicagoland. I do not recall the price, road numbers, or company names. I suspect he is open since he lives upstairs.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Friday, April 3, 2020 5:25 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] New Run: Rapido HO Scale General American Meat Reefer

 

New Run: Rapido HO Scale General American Meat Reefer

From the Rapido website: "Rapido is pleased to announce a new production run of our HO scale General American 37’ meat refrigerator car! It has been quite a while since we’ve offered these popular cars for sale, and it’s about time that we did some more! We are offering new road numbers on some of the most popular schemes from the earlier runs, as well as an all-new HO release."

https://rapidotrains.com/products/ho-scale/freight-cars/ho-scale-37-general-american-garx-reefer

These are available in multiple road numbers for:

American Stores

Armour

Cudahy

Dubuque

GARX Refrigerator

Hormel

Kingan

Morris Rifkin

Oscar Meyer

Swift (Red Block, Red Billboard & War Bonds)

URTX Refrigerator

Undecorated

I have no idea whether all of these variants are accurate for prototype cars, however.

I have no financial connection to Rapido.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


CB&Q 110193 Truss Rod boxcar

Bill Welch
 

CB&Q 110193 Truss Rod boxcar is a Westerfield kit. My modeling date is Oct. 1955 and by then these were probably all gone but I occasionally cheat and so the car has a re-weigh date in 1952. The underframe has not been glued as yet so the body is not yet sitting firmly nested on the U/F. I have also not yet attached the brake wheel. To help keep the turnbuckles taught as well as provide more comfort for someone "riding the rods" a wood plank has been lodged through the four turnbuckles on each side of the underframe. The scratch built Running Board and Latitudinals will receive replacement boards after sandpaper is used to peel some paint up.

Bill Welch


Re: New Run: Rapido HO Scale General American Meat Reefer

Gary Bechdol
 

Regarding the Swift "War Bonds" reefers, the photo of  SRLX 6307 on page 172 of Ted's Steam Era Freight Cars Reference Manual Vol 3, the upper band shows dark (black?) lettering on a lighter background, possibly yellow.  Also, the "BUY MORE WAR BONDS" appears to be lighter than the (presumably) blue bottom band.  Is it possible that the blue and white bands were added to an otherwise standard yellow painted reefer, with the "BUY MORE WAR BONDS" being in red?  Other than the photograph, is there any other documentation of this paint scheme?

Gary Bechdol
Stone Mountain, GA

On Sat, Apr 4, 2020 at 11:05 AM Douglas Harding <doug.harding@...> wrote:

Chuck if you are referring to the photos Todd posted, those are photos of Atlas models, not the Rapido model, nor are they photos of the prototype. The Atlas model came with four hinges. Atlas claimed the model was based upon a Cudahy car built in 1925, and I have a photo of a Cudahy reefer with four hinges that appears to match the Atlas model. The car in the photo was built in 1928. Four hinges were common on earlier reefers. Some early reefers also came with eight hinges. Six hinges became the defacto with most manufactures of wood cars sometime in the 20s or 30s. One reason I heard was if a hinge failed there was two other hinges on that door to hold it in place. Hinge familiar was commonly due to wood rotting because of the high moisture related to reefers. The doors were heavy because of the construction to contain the insulation and required seals.

 

There are photos of wood Swift reefers with only four hinges. Though the majority of photos show six hinges. This could be because very few photos were taken in the teens and twenties, when four hinges were more common.

 

I have never seen any data showing the number of cars broke down by number of hinges.

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Chuck Cover
Sent: Saturday, April 4, 2020 7:21 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] New Run: Rapido HO Scale General American Meat Reefer

 

The Swift reefers in the photo have doors with only 4 hinges, which stands out to me.  I think most reefers have doors with 6 hinges.  Can anyone tell me the difference?  Were the four hinge doors lighter weight or were the hinges more heavy duty?   How many reefer cars had the 4 hinge car?  I assume different manufacturers built the different doors.  Thanks

 

Chuck Cover

Santa Fe, NM


Re: New Run: Rapido HO Scale General American Meat Reefer

Bill Welch
 

Unfortunately Atlas choose to "Lionel'ize" these cars with grotesquely large operating hinges.

Bill Welch


Re: New Run: Rapido HO Scale General American Meat Reefer

Douglas Harding
 

Chuck if you are referring to the photos Todd posted, those are photos of Atlas models, not the Rapido model, nor are they photos of the prototype. The Atlas model came with four hinges. Atlas claimed the model was based upon a Cudahy car built in 1925, and I have a photo of a Cudahy reefer with four hinges that appears to match the Atlas model. The car in the photo was built in 1928. Four hinges were common on earlier reefers. Some early reefers also came with eight hinges. Six hinges became the defacto with most manufactures of wood cars sometime in the 20s or 30s. One reason I heard was if a hinge failed there was two other hinges on that door to hold it in place. Hinge familiar was commonly due to wood rotting because of the high moisture related to reefers. The doors were heavy because of the construction to contain the insulation and required seals.

 

There are photos of wood Swift reefers with only four hinges. Though the majority of photos show six hinges. This could be because very few photos were taken in the teens and twenties, when four hinges were more common.

 

I have never seen any data showing the number of cars broke down by number of hinges.

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Chuck Cover
Sent: Saturday, April 4, 2020 7:21 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] New Run: Rapido HO Scale General American Meat Reefer

 

The Swift reefers in the photo have doors with only 4 hinges, which stands out to me.  I think most reefers have doors with 6 hinges.  Can anyone tell me the difference?  Were the four hinge doors lighter weight or were the hinges more heavy duty?   How many reefer cars had the 4 hinge car?  I assume different manufacturers built the different doors.  Thanks

 

Chuck Cover

Santa Fe, NM


Re: New Run: Rapido HO Scale General American Meat Reefer

william darnaby
 

The rear cover photo on Morning Sun’s Refrigerator Car Color Guide shows two Swift red cars, one of which has only 4 hinges.  It’s number is 6544.

 

Bill Darnaby

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chuck Cover
Sent: Saturday, April 4, 2020 7:21 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] New Run: Rapido HO Scale General American Meat Reefer

 

The Swift reefers in the photo have doors with only 4 hinges, which stands out to me.  I think most reefers have doors with 6 hinges.  Can anyone tell me the difference?  Were the four hinge doors lighter weight or were the hinges more heavy duty?   How many reefer cars had the 4 hinge car?  I assume different manufacturers built the different doors.  Thanks

 

Chuck Cover

Santa Fe, NM


Re: GN Safety Film from the 1940's with lots of Freight Cars

Clark Propst
 

Love that movie. A friend ran a hobby shop here in the 80s-90s and rented tapes. He had that one. I got a copy of it from him.
Thanks for pointing it out on U tube.
CW Propst


Re: New Run: Rapido HO Scale General American Meat Reefer

Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

    With regard to the four hinge doors on meat cars I believe te majority of these were 36 ft. cars rather than 
the 37 most General American cars seem to have been. Swift rostered both, as did Cudahy, but I cannot recall 
ever seeing a photo of four hinge reefer longer than 36 ft. There seems to be a prototype for anythng, however.

Cordially, Don Valentine


Re: New Run: Rapido HO Scale General American Meat Reefer

Tim O'Connor
 

My favorite roof shots of Swift reefers.

On 4/3/2020 10:19 PM, Richard Townsend via groups.io wrote:
The Swift cars had BCR roofs, including the red cars. Obviously they weathered to streaky gray and red. I’ll defer to others on the silver, at least for the wood sided cars.


On Apr 3, 2020, at 5:30 PM, Todd Sullivan via groups.io <sullivant41=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Brian,

Nice catch.  My Rapido reefers are in storage in Syracuse, so I'd better make a note to check the SRLX car when we are reunited.  I'll also check my Sunshine kit that is painted but not assembled.  Hmmm, maybe I should dig it out and finish it during this corona virus lull.

Fun story: Tony Koester had 26 of those red Atlas reefers, and Atlas only produced about 6 numbers.  As occasional yardmaster in Frankfort's eastbound yard, I got awfully tired of seeing numbers repeat in a cut of Swift reefers from Kansas City.  So, I offered to rework them a bit and renumber them, working in batches of 4-5 cars.  The next operating session, Tony presented me with a box with all 26 (!) along with some dry transfer numbers that were exactly right for the Atlas lettering.  The dry transfers didn't work very well, and I decided it was easier to hand re-letter the cars.  I found that any of the numbers 0, 6 and 9, could be easily transformed into another of those numbers, and the same for 3, 6 and 8, so that's how they got renumbered.  I tried using decals for the journal repack data, and the first car took about 2.5 hours to get the decals settled into the scribed siding on both sides.  Nope, that wasn't going to work, either, so I faked the RPKD data with tiny dabs of white paint.  It works with the 2 foot rule - no one has mentioned that it isn't legible, and I still use the technique on my models!

Todd Sullivan
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*


Re: Model brake component size comparison to prototype

Tim O'Connor
 


As I recall, all Cal-Scale detail components were OVERSIZE because they were used
for lost wax casting! In that process the plastic parts are for the molds and are
destroyed in the casting process, and the shrinkage produces parts that are closer
to scale.

Or am I wrong? :-)

Tim O'Connor

========================================

On 4/4/2020 9:00 AM, Lester Breuer wrote:

A comparison of several manufacturers’ model brake component measurements to Westinghouse prototype brake component measurements prepared by George Toman was sent to me for my use.  I asked George to share his measurements comparison on my blog.  If you are interested in the  comparison measurements, they are now available on my blog I have to share photos and writeup of projects on my Minneapolis & Northland Railroad Company. If would like to take a look please do at the following link:

 

http://mnrailroadcab100.blogspot.com/

 

Lester Breuer



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Model brake component size comparison to prototype

Lester Breuer
 

A comparison of several manufacturers’ model brake component measurements to Westinghouse prototype brake component measurements prepared by George Toman was sent to me for my use.  I asked George to share his measurements comparison on my blog.  If you are interested in the  comparison measurements, they are now available on my blog I have to share photos and writeup of projects on my Minneapolis & Northland Railroad Company. If would like to take a look please do at the following link:

 

http://mnrailroadcab100.blogspot.com/

 

Lester Breuer

 


GN Safety Film from the 1940's with lots of Freight Cars

gtws00
 

I ran across an old GN Safety Training  Film from the 1940's. There are many photos of steam era freight cars in this film. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqpayZ2JqlU

George Toman


Re: New Run: Rapido HO Scale General American Meat Reefer

Chuck Cover
 

The Swift reefers in the photo have doors with only 4 hinges, which stands out to me.  I think most reefers have doors with 6 hinges.  Can anyone tell me the difference?  Were the four hinge doors lighter weight or were the hinges more heavy duty?   How many reefer cars had the 4 hinge car?  I assume different manufacturers built the different doors.  Thanks

 

Chuck Cover

Santa Fe, NM


Re: Trainshed Cyclopedia Listing / Index

mel perry
 

charlie:
90 was the magic number, best sources,
railroadtreasures.com (stephans rr library), or epay, depending on where you
live, you might also check out the "o"
scale train shows, there are always
dealers there,
good luck
mel perry


Re: Trainshed Cyclopedia Listing / Index

Charlie Vlk
 

All-
Thanks for all the responses. Looks like 1-90 are the sum total of volumes.
I now only need three (5,9 &12) to complete my set if I responded to Al
Smith quickly enough!

Best regards and stay safe!!!
Charlie Vlk

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of
Richard Brennan
Sent: Friday, April 3, 2020 6:25 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Trainshed Cyclopedia Listing / Index

At 03:56 PM 4/3/2020, Charlie Vlk wrote:
Does anyone know how many Trainshed Cyclopedia volumes were issued?
Right now I am trying to organize my library and I am filing the most
valuable softcover books and magazines into cardboard file holders and
am wondering if there were any issued beyond No. 90.
Charlie
I've only had a list of 90 for the last few years:

--------------------
Richard Brennan - San Leandro CA
--------------------

1 Locomotives 1922
2 Switching & Freight Locomotives 1930
3 Box Stock Reefers 1931
4 Rules & Regulations
5 Gondolas & Hoppers 1940's
6 Passenger Locomotives
7 Buildings & Structures 1893
8 Passenger Cars 1931
9 War & Standard locomotives & Cars 1919
10 Rail Motor Cars 1919-1928
11 Caboose Cars 1879 - 1943
12 Tank Cars 1922-1943
13 Buildings & Structures 1893
14 4-8-4s and other Heavy Passenger Locomotives 1927-1941
15 Heavy Traction, Electric Locomotives 1922-1943
16 Passenger Trains 1943
17 Box Stock & Flat Cars 1943
18 Locomotives 1916
19 Buildings & Structures 1893
20 Diesel Electric Locomotives 1925-1938
21 Passenger Cars 1943
22 Steam Locomotives
23 Steam Locomotives & Tenders 1938
24 Buildings & Structures 1893
25 Electric Motor Cars 1888-1928
26 Railway Service Cars 1928-1943
27 Signals & Signal Symbols
28 Cars, Scales & Gates 1909
29 Freight Cars 1892
30 Rail Motor Cars 1919-1928
31 Locomotives 1927
32 Locomotives Tenders Trucks 1927
33 Buildings & Structures 1893
34 Shays & Other Geared Locomotives
35 Freight Cars 1919 (Part 1)
36 Freight Cars 1919 (Part 2)
37 Industrial & Foreign Locomotives/Service Equipment 1930-36
38 Buildings & Structures 1893
39 Passenger cars 1892
40 Locomotive Cabs & Fittings 1927
41 Locomotive Cabs & Fittings 1927
42 Passenger Cars 1919

Index Index Train Shed cyclopedia volumes 1-42 index

43 Diesel & Oil Electric Locomotives 1930-1936
44 Locomotives 1913 & 1919
45 Steam Locomotives 1940-1950's
46 Flats Gondolas & Hoppers 1931
47 Steam Locomotives 1940-1950's
48 Hoppers Industrials & Lettering 1931
49 Steam Locomotives 1940-1950's
50 Steam Locomotives 1940-1950's
51 Steam Locomotives 1940-1950's
52 Steam Locomotives 1919
53 Steam Locomotives 1919
54 Bridges & Trestles
55 Freight & Passenger Cars 1898 (Part 1)
56 Steam Locomotives 1940-1950's
57 Freight & Passenger Cars 1898 (Part 2)
58 Diesel Locomotives 1940-1950's
59 Freight & Passenger Cars 1898
60 Diesel Locomotives 1940-1950's
61 Box Stock Reefers 1925
62 Flats Gondolas & Hoppers 1925 (Part 2)
63 Dump Cars, Tanks, Cabooses, Passenger Cars 1925
64 Diesel Locomotives 1940-1950's
65 Passengers, Postals, Motor Cars 1925
66 Electric & Turbine Locomotives 1940-1950's
67 Passenger Details, Trucks & Industrials 1925
68 Passenger Details, Trucks & Industrials 1925
69 Locomotive Photos 1912
70 Gondolas & Hoppers 1943
71 Hoppers, Tanks, Container Cars & Cabooses 1943
72 Locomotive Drawings 1912
73 Freight & Passenger Cars, Shops & Terminals 1940-1950's [1]
74 Smoke Box Stoker Valve Gears & Trucks 1912
75 Cabooses & Freight Car 1943
76 Cow Catchers, Cabs & Fittings, Tenders 1912
77 Freight Car Construction Details 1943
78 Electric Locomotives & Motor Cars 1912
79 Freight & Passenger Cars, Shops & Terminals 1940-1950's [2]
80 Steam Diesel Electric Locomotives 1940-1950's
81 Freight Car Construction Details 1943
82 Boilers 1919
83 Freight Car Construction Details 1943
84 Smoke Boxes & Stokers 1919
85 Freight & Passenger Cars, Shops & Terminals 1940-1950's [3]
86 Motor Cars & Passenger Construction details 1943
87 Frames Cylinders Valve Gears 1919
88 Passenger Car Construction Details 1943
89 Pistons Trucks 1919
90 Freight & Passenger Cars, Shops & Terminals 1940-1950's [4]

13041 - 13060 of 184173